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10:00 PM
Why are you shadowing the property if you intend to do nothing with it but forward to the base?
 
and I was about to ask that, but R beat me to it.
 
Ben people would think im stupid, i don't want people to down me
im new to programming
 
you don't get downvoted for stupid questions, you get downvoted for questions that are incoherent and nonsensical
at least usually
 
I doubt this question would get downvoted.
 
The "right" answer in this case, is to learn about the debugger's single-step capability
 
10:02 PM
should i ask the question?
 
if you single-stepped through the program, you'd find that the program was stuck in that setter, and the call stack kept growing until SO
 
@Psycho I think you should. I bet you'll learn a lot from the answers.
 
I fixed it
I didn't need the bottom part, public new int CustNum field
i think
 
Ah, but what's your plan next time you have an error you don't understand?
If it involves coming to Lounge<C++> with C# questions, .......
then it's not a very good plan
Give yourself an assignment to learn about the debugger
 
i came to this lounge because theres no one in c# chat
i guess its a dead language, im just taking this class in highschool, im better with java personally, i just suck at this section.. inheritance
 
10:06 PM
C# is not a dead language, lol
 
just a dead chatroom
plus, you would have had the exact same problem in Java
if you forgot the super keyword.
 
There's more C# questions on SO than any other language
 
Maybe their questions get answered so fast (the ones actually asked, anyway) that they never turn to the chatroom.
But looking at our chat topics, I think the real reason is much simpler.
C# programmers just aren't cool like we are.
 
haha :)
 
10:09 PM
Yeah, this room is a bit different from the others.
 
And we're never on topic... Hmm, what did we have in the last 24 hours?

Physics
Religion
Music
Chess
 
Yeah, no one talked about computers out of power.
 
hello, all! excuse me for butting in... is there a way to find a moderator to ask a question?
 
a chat mod, or an SO main site mod?
 
an SO main site mod.
 
10:14 PM
the "flag for moderator attention" button...
but depending on the question, you should just ask on meta
as a normal meta question
 
well, my question is whether comments on SO that are considered inappropriate get silently deleted by moderators. Do you think it is a question worth posting?
 
@MikeNakis The answer is yes.
 
Yes, they are.
 
Oh, OK. Thank you.
 
depends on what kind of "inappropriate" I suppose
 
There is this post: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/128657/… which, if you look at how it was written before it was modified, it was written in SMS talk. And I think that someone commented "please try to write in proper english". To which I replied,...
(I think I replied...) "no, actually, try to write in English." I am almost sure I posted that comment there, and it is not there. I suppose it was deleted as inappropriate, right?
 
OK. I am just asking because if I knew that they get deleted I probably would not have been posting them in the first place. I imagined that if I wrote something bad, and it got deleted, I would receive a message. Okay, thank you.
 
@Mysticial Zombocom
Zombo.com is a website that was created in 1999, during the early days of Flash animation on the Internet. While many websites had a Flash intro that would play while the site loaded, Zombo took the concept to a humorous extreme, consisting of one long intro that never leads to any content. It has remained largely unchanged since it was created. It is also considered, by web designers, to be one of the best sense-of-humor flash websites. Content Zombo.com consists of a "blank" page, a colorful title, and a Flash animation of seven colorful discs that pulsate, hinting at rotation. An a...
 
@MikeNakis You won't get notified unless it's really something serious.
 
10:27 PM
@Mysticial I had to put up with the religion and physics, without getting the music or chess...... dangit!
 
And no one mentioned sex.
I think this room is losing it.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I had to talk all serious like. I never got to troll once!
 
Hmm, 90 upvotes for gold C++ badge.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes just make 90 puppets and vote with a random distribution over time and IP address.
 
@Xaade I think that would actually take longer than posting 10 good answers.
I don't know how often my IP address changes, and I can't effect it myself, because I don't have physical access to the router.
 
10:33 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes When I actually find something I can answer well, and is obscure enough so the Me Toos don't post google results. Jon Skeet has already posted.
 
Here's the start of the music transcript: http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/2281712#2281712
And the chess part: http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/2281384#2281384
actually, there wasn't too much chess...
it was mainly the music that @sehe and I went on for a few hours yesterday
 
Hehe. Bleep. Someone called me?
 
@sehe What's perfect pitch?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh sorry. I mis-heard. I thought the requested topic was 'chess', but you meant 'sex'. Then again, it was about matrix chess which is very close to it :)
 
@sehe bleep :)
 
10:38 PM
@Xaade when someone can name and/or make any given pitch they hear.
 
@Xaade It means that your hearing isn't too bad
 
@MooingDuck If I can physically make a pitch, I can copy a heard pitch.
 
@sehe ROFL starred :)
 
In Dutch we call it absolute pitch (i.e. .... recognition) and we frequently joke about having 'absolutely no pitch' (... recognition)
 
@Xaade you have perfect pitch then
 
10:39 PM
@sehe I'm not sure what you think sex is, but it's not at all like matrix chess. Sorry if that breaks any of your dreams.
 
@sehe My hearing is too good.
I can hear every conversation in a room, but can't understand the guy talking TO me.
 
Stop bleeping me. Or bleep at varied pitches. You sound boring!
 
@MooingDuck Without first hearing a tone for reference.
 
@sehe To what key is does the bleep sound at?
 
@StackedCrooked that's not the definition I'm familiar with.
 
10:40 PM
@sehe Did you bet your sister on it?
 
@Mysticial 440Hz
 
@MooingDuck wait.... how do people get pitch wrong? I thought that was natural?
 
> Absolute pitch (AP), widely referred to as perfect pitch, is the ability of a person to identify or re-create a given musical note without the benefit of an external reference.
Musicians with absolute perception may experience difficulties which do not exist for other musicians. Because absolute listeners are capable of recognizing that a musical composition has been transposed from its original key, or that a pitch is being produced at a nonstandard frequency (either sharp or flat), a musician with absolute pitch may become distressed upon perceiving tones they believe to be "wrong" or hearing a piece of music "in the wrong key."
 
I mean, I understand not being able to name them...
Oh, you mean people that hum out of tune?
 
@StackedCrooked I stand corrected.
 
10:40 PM
@Mysticial A single pitch does not define a key. Then again, perhaps you meant 'keyboard key'? That would be e in the 'small octave' (don't know whether that is international jargon)
 
Oh god, I can't believe I managed to bring back the music conversation... lol
 
@Xaade no, but if someone sings a note, the first sound I make is close, but I'm usually off by a note or so for a moment, but I can correct it very quickly. I can then match subsequent notes that are within an octive no problem
 
@StackedCrooked I'd probably never be able to name pitches. I'd get them all mixed up. The names. But I can repeat songs from games I played 20 years ago.
 
Musicians with absolute perception may experience difficulties which do not exist for other musicians. Because absolute listeners are capable of recognizing that a musical composition has been transposed from its original key, or that a pitch is being produced at a nonstandard frequency (either sharp or flat), a musician with absolute pitch may become distressed upon perceiving tones they believe to be "wrong" or hearing a piece of music "in the wrong key."
^ Interesting.
 
@StackedCrooked yup we talked about that to some extent yesterday.
 
10:43 PM
I'd rather have good relative pitch then.
 
@sehe Doesn't matter. I'm not sure I'd be able to identify a pitch, no matter the name. Reproducing it would be no problem.
 
Favoring relative over absolute is in my programming roots :D
 
@sehe I meant pitch. I suck at music terminology. I'm just an enthusiast with no formal training outside of stereotypical Asian piano lessons.
 
Can anyone think of a reason lookup in a std::set would be 15% faster than std::lower_bound on a sorted vector?
 
@StackedCrooked Oh, that happens all the time.... hearing a note off, jars, me....
 
10:44 PM
@MooingDuck That one has @Mysticial written all over...
 
@sehe his type of question to answer? or that's the kind he asks?
 
@Xaade If the note is correct relative to the other notes then I don't mind.
 
Funny thing is that hearing everything, means that you have trouble focusing hearing.
 
@Xaade The thing is, whether it would jar you when the whole piece is shifted (e.g. when your vinyl is rotating slow/fast slightly)
 
However, it helps when I'm listening to someone with a heavy accent, because I can fill in the gaps.
 
10:45 PM
@MooingDuck the first
 
But I know even less about music theory than all of you together so I'll remain silent before my ignorance is painfully exposed in some way.
 
@MooingDuck I don't remember what's the data-structure for std::set. Red-black tree?
 
@Mysticial yeah. I can't figure out how that would be faster than linear data.
 
@sehe It irritates me when people speed up or slow down a song.... Especially when they slow down a song.... my mind has moved on, and they're still hanging on a note I'm done with..... annoying.
 
So is a thread-safe non-intrusive COW-enabling wrapper an interesting idea or not?
 
10:47 PM
@StackedCrooked interesting yes, but is it a useful idea? Dubious.
 
... less than all of you together. That would mean you could know more than one of us!
 
@Xaade That's interesting. Not sure whether it has to do with pitch recognition. More about the motoric cortex having a very active rememberance of the 'canonical' version of a piece of music. Let me browse you a link that will deffo interest you...
 
@MooingDuck Hmm... that's an interesting one. How big is the dataset?
 
@StackedCrooked I would expect any given person to know less than all of us put togeather on any given topic.
 
@sehe I wonder if this is related to my asperger's
 
10:50 PM
@MooingDuck Not sure about that. I think @sehe knows more about music than all of us combined - even though I'm not exactly a novice either...
 
@StackedCrooked Don't know about threadsafe, but Boost Flyweight seems right up that alley. And it is sick configurable (policies, strategies, allocation, factories ; it's almost like <strike>java</strike> OMG I said it!)
@Flyweight: i'm sure it has a policy to do the COW thread-safely
 
Isn't it flyweight?
 
@Mysticial I tested on PODs from 8 to 32 bytes, and containers between 8 and 2000 elements, vector was 12% slower for 8 elements, 30% slower for 256 elements, and 60% slower for 2000 elements. Although, vector was about 6% faster for strings.
 
IIRC, flyweight<> is limited though, in the sense that it will treat all wrapped types as immutable values
@StackedCrooked erm... of course :)
 
@Lightweight hello?
 
10:52 PM
is there a way to delete your questions you askd?
 
@Xaade Darn. People don't seem to take to my newfound idea of naming topics with @topic :)
@Psycho Delete them? You can't if it has answers.
 
@sehe It would complicate things a lot to do otherwise, no?
 
//  incomplete (missing constructors etc...), but basic concept
template<class T>
struct COW {
    T * operator->() { makeUnique(); return data.get(); }
    const T * operator ->() const { return data.get(); }
private:
    void makeUnique() { data.reset(new T(*data)); } // i believe this is thread-safe
    boost::shared_ptr<T> data;
};
 
what if it does have answers , i don't want the code to be up there anymore
 
@RMartinhoFernandes certainly. I understand the decision. But it isn't required for the concept of COW values
 
10:53 PM
can i edit it then? and says solved?
 
@sehe [Lightweight]
 
@Psycho Just edit the code out. Leave a polite remark as to what you did
 
okay
 
@Xaade Pay attention. Evil edits at work
 
[>Lightweight?
[]Lightweight?
 
10:54 PM
@MooingDuck The fact that it gets worse for larger sizes means it's probably a caching issue. When you run down a BS tree, you would normally hit O( n*log(n) ) cache misses. But if you run through the same set of head-nodes over and over again, so they will stay in cache.
 
@Xaade Oh noes. Ugly syntax alert
 
I'm tempted to think that should be the case for vector too - as the same elements will still be tested over and over again... but I'm not too familiar with lower_bound
 
@Mysticial BS Tree? Probably best to stick with the standard acronyms there (BST)
 
@Psycho WARN: Code will remain for those who can see edit history.
 
@Mysticial and for 8 elements of 8 bytes? Probably not the cache there
@Mysticial std::lower_bound is basically a binary search
 
10:55 PM
@Xaade Meh. If that's important, don't be at SO in the first place. And you can always flag for a moderator to help out
 
@sehe _Lightweight:
 
@Mysticial I just noticed my predicate is variable for the vector case, and thus not inlined. must fix!
 
@sehe It's been a while since I've taken CS Algorithms 101
 
@Xaade Stop it already. It's flyweight, and I'm no longer interested in topic referencing
 
@sehe Useful to know if you made a licensing or contract mistake by posting code.
 
10:56 PM
@Mysticial I was afraid you actually meant 'BullShit Tree' and I was getting behind with the newest algorithms in that field :)
 
@sehe Ding. Ok.
 
@MooingDuck I'm not sure, since I've never looked at the STL implementations. There's a lot overhead for smaller sizes - so I usually don't look at the small-size datapoints.
 
@StackedCrooked It's only as thread safe as the copy constructor.
 
18 mins ago, by sehe
Stop bleeping me. Or bleep at varied pitches. You sound boring!
 
@Mysticial I was designing a class basically as a map optimized for small sizes :( It's crazy fast to delete and add/remove, but slow for lookup oddly.
 
10:58 PM
Someone should have starred that. I like it (^^)
2
 
@RMartinhoFernandes You're right that's an assumption.
 
@sehe It's called plinking around here.
I guess that's why it was not starred. Let me try.
Stop plinking me. Or plink at varied pitches. You sound boring!
 
@sehe Can I reference you in a meta question. "Please add ability to bleep at varied pitches. I want to talk to @Sehe without annoying them."
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, then stop plinking me! Or plink at more varied pitches. Perhaps you could plink me a theme and I can answer with a small fugue
 
@sehe So...
@sehe How do I...
@sehe change the...
@sehe pitch?
 
11:00 PM
lol
The pitch could be determined from the hash of the message.
 
Not like that. You'll only give me localized hearing loss (or worse) by over-stressing a tiny part of the membrane. Uh well. I shall lower the volume :)
 
pitch variance.
Random, message hash, time hash, random character in username, other ____
 
Message hash is cool, because if you're very good you can understand messages to you without reading them :)
 
@sehe physical hearing loss, or mental?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That is some serious conceptual composition technique. I bet a lot of 'avant garde' composition students would be happy to put that into practice, and compose a piece involving live twitter feeds, or something. Cross medial art. Audience involvement. Real potential :) (for an ephemeroptera)
 
11:04 PM
@MooingDuck lol, then I have no idea... That would be a good question. If you posted it complete with diagnostics comparing add/remove and lookup.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes uh..... A single pitch capable of a two way hash.
 
@Xaade The difference can be quite fuzzy
 
@sehe I can already see it "Ah, that sounds better with SHA-1 than with MD5".
 
@sehe if it's fuzzy, then it isn't localized.
 
@Xaade WTF is a two-way hash. Is that what I know as a perfect hash?
 
11:04 PM
@MooingDuck I might be able to answer if you have a small test case that repros the performance difference - since I can dig into the implementation.
 
Ka-doosh.
 
@Xaade No need to be two-way.
You just need 1337 cracking skillz.
Q:"What do you do for a living?" A:"I'm a SHA-1 player."
 
@Xaade You can not go and pick an adjective and re-attach it to another notion just like that
 
@sehe sorry, two way encryption... what is perfect hashesh?
 
lulz
 
11:05 PM
It's a hash function that won't produce collisions.
Wait, there was a joke?
Damn.
 
@Mysticial I'm digging into Dinkum's std::map.
 
@sehe I'm sorry, I have a PhD in trollologistics.
I can in fact do that
 
@RMartinhoFernandes More or less. In general it can be devised in case the input domain is enumerable and finite (IOW, know/given ahead of time). The thing is, that given the hash function, it is possible to get a reverse mapping from hash to input
 
> If anyone wants to tear this up and make me look like a jackass, I'd really appreciate the help.
 
@Xaade I noticed. I was showing my appreciation of the fact
Oh, I promised you a link. BRB
 
11:08 PM
> Tl;Dr: Class implementation isn't working, posted all my source when I probably could've posted about 1/10th of this and still made sense, and would love to have someone tell me why it's not working and how bad I am.
 
@Xaade: A 4-track mind it is a podcast, really worth the time.
@Xaade Don't mind the sometimes hyped comments, don't expect high-brow scientific stuff. Just the way in which it documents that some brains have 'super-powers' in the realm of tracking musical 'streams' (simultaneously) is fascinating and reminds of what you said earlier
 
@sehe 'streams'?
 
Yes, like rivers.
 
Just go listen to it. You need more coarse grained conversation protocol for chats :)
 
I can track multiple conversations in the same room, given I don't have any gaps in my language processing (side-effect). I often do this without being conscious of it.
I'm also visually oriented. I don't have photographic memory, but I can categorize quickly. Ironically, I have no or unstable depth perception.
 
11:14 PM
The cocktail party effect describes the ability to focus one's listening attention on a single talker among a mixture of conversations and background noises, ignoring other conversations. The effect enables most people to talk in a noisy place. For example, when conversing in a noisy crowded party, most people can still listen and understand the person they are talking with, and can simultaneously ignore background noise and conversations. Nevertheless, if someone calls out their name from across the room, people will sometimes notice (the "own name effect"). The auditory system can als...
 
Yup if your used to 'never losing control of an information stream' then you will get upset with minor input impediments.
I'd venture the guess that you are quite the control freak in what you do well, and you'd be very irritable if your ear/eyesight would be clogged (e.g. do to an ignition)?
 
One day my depth perception kicked in, and I got dizzy.
 
I find it interesting that I can listen to two (or more) conversations at once in any one language. But I have a lot more trouble if they are in different languages.
 
At least you can answer "Do I look fat?" with "Sorry, I lack depth perception."
 
@RMartinhoFernandes "Do I look fat? No, but you do look flat."
 
11:16 PM
@sehe actually my language processing fails often enough, that I have the side-effect of being able to piece together conversations with missing auditory information (or more easily understand heavy accents).
 
@StackedCrooked Nope, bad answer.
You don't want to tell women they look flat.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Not even a fat one?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes You don't need depth-perception to see if someone's fat. Just proportional. Height to Width... :)
 
It's like someone rolled a character in DnD, and went random blitz on sensory advantage/disadvantages.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually, you don't want to tell women whether they look fat/flat, period.
 
11:17 PM
@Mysticial You look ...voluminous.
 
@Mysticial Sssh, they don't need to know that.
 
@Mysticial Actually, you just shift stance ever so slight often enough and you can simulate depth perception. I didn't know I was doing this until someone pointed out that I move around an aweful lot.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes :)
@Xaade That's actually how they precisely calculate distances to nearby stars. They measure the star's location against the background at different times of the year while the earth is in a different part of its orbit.
 
That's where the parsec unit comes from (the unit of distance, not the unit of time not from Star Wars).
 
@Mysticial good thing stars don't move.
 
11:22 PM
@Xaade Trolling again
 
@Xaade :)
 
(this)-> is the same as this-> ?
 
this chat doesn't like the asterix
 
You can measure a star's lateral speed to/from you by means of doppler shift of the atomic bandlines
 
11:24 PM
You want backticks to make code: `
 
(*this)-> is the same as this->*
 
Woot! I managed to type a backtick in code markdown at the first try. I'm getting good at this thing.
@Eloff No.
 
ok, what does this->* do?
 
(*this)-> will call operator-> on the current object. this->* calls operator->* on the pointer this.
 
@Mysticial in a rewritten test, vector is faster. I think my slowdown is my comparison object. Will test.
 
11:26 PM
operator->* is used to access pointers to members and pointers to member functions.
 
Ok, but what does that operator actually do, I don't remember
 
struct foo {
    int x;
};

auto ptm = &foo::x;
foo f = { 10 };
foo* pf = &f;
std::cout << pf->*ptm; // prints 10
There's also .* which does the same, but not on pointers.
 
@MooingDuck Interesting...
 
std::cout << f.*ptm; // prints 10
 
Oh, it's kind of like function pointers, but for members. That's pretty arcane, especially since classes tend to use accessor functions.
 
11:35 PM
@Eloff It's not at all like accessor functions. I'll show you an example of what you can do.
 
Well, I mean usually you'd make a function pointer to an accessor method rather
have you ever seen that used?
 
Ah, but that'd be a pointer to member function.
And the syntax to invoke those is the same.
 
oh
wait, it's for passing the this pointer to a function/member pointer?
 
pf->*foo::bar_method() == std::bind(foo::bar_method, pf)()
 
11:40 PM
It'd be (pf->* &foo::bar_method)() because of operator precedence, but yeah, that's the idea.
 
ok, I get it
`T& operator*() const { return *((*this)->); }
T* operator->() const;`
is that valid? it looks very odd
 
No, it's not, you can't use -> without something on the right side.
If you want to invoke operator-> to obtain the pointer, you need to do something like this->operator->().
 
ah, ok
 
Hmm, question: why don't smart pointers overload operator->*?
Also, is that sentence grammatically correct? It sounds weird.
 
it's correct
I think scott meyers wrote an article about smart pointers overloading operator->*
 
11:52 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I think to invoke operator-> you have to use t.operator->() except for naked pointers, where they return t;. I have yet to find away around that with my iterator adapter.
@RMartinhoFernandes MSVC's implementation is return (&*t); since it works on most iterators
 
You know, I have no idea what you're talking about.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes how to invoke operator-> on an iterator.
 
Ah, but I was talking about about to invoke the particular operator-> in the code that was posted.
If you're implementing operator-> and want it to forward to some member's operator->, you can actually just return the member.
 

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