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9:00 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes but what is the use of the following line template<int>
 
of course, there are areas where QM can't make predictions, but there will just be another physics theory that will make predictions in those areas that will prove to be correct
 
The Big Bang doesn't explain the genesis, it only says what happened afterwards.(Huge amounts of energy and an expanding universe)
 
@DeadMG Except they don't explain what qualifies as an observation (or whatever that thing that makes things switch from quantum effects to "normal" effects is called).
 
@DeadMG But it could be entirely wrong. I can predict where a ball will fall, by simply believing that the ball follows a path mathematically calculated out, and base that assertion on the belief that an invisible force is pushing down from the sun.
I predicted the same thing as Newton.
 
@Xaade No you can't, because the distance between the ball and the sun varies with time, and the effects of gravity don't.
 
9:01 PM
QM and General Relatively don't agree with each other... So we know for sure that there's more physics that we don't understand yet.
 
Does it work at night the same way it does as during the day?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Any action that requires the wave-function to collapse and produce a single reality is an observation.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes If i say template<T> add (T x), then sure compiler has no idea at compile time. But if i say template<int> add(int x)....... then why does compiler not know that ONLY ints are possible
 
@DeadMG Er, they do.
 
@Mysticial great, scientist will still have a job at sorting this out.
 
9:02 PM
@fabianhjr light before light source. Identical relative timelines, of the forming of matter, right up to before life on earth.
 
@DeadMG But what actions can cause collapse?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes If you throw a ball during the night, you'll get exactly the same parabola as during the day. Even though you are the entire diameter of the Earth in increased distance.
@RMartinhoFernandes I was just about to explain that. Got a lot of typing to do :(
 
@Jimm By itself it allows you to have a template that takes an integer. One example would be to have a type template <int> class vector; that is a vector with a given number of coordinates.
 
a wave function is where every action that can happen does happen simultaneously
a collapse is where the particle must be in one definite state or place
 
@Xaade it has been proven that there was a huge ammount of time before life on earth emerge or even humans emerged instead of one week.
 
9:03 PM
@fabianhjr There's already a bunch of reasonable theories that combine QM and GR, but the problem is that nobody can design an experiment to test any of them. We're talking 50 orders of magnitude from sub-atomic to black-holes...
 
for example, if an electron emits and doesn't emit a photon, then when you absorb that photon, the electron must have emitted it
that's an observation
 
We are still sorting this out, continually.
 
Right, but if I shoot electrons through a double slit, they will interfere unless I observe them to decide which slit they went through. However, cats won't interfere with themselves even if don't observe them.
 
that's for two reasons
one, the molecules in the cat interact with each other continually, effectively observing each other
 
@DeadMG Yes, you can invalidate that theory, easily. But, there's nothing saying that in the future someone will come along with a theory that works for both large and subatomic scales, and is completely different from QT and Relativity. Basically asserting that both are completely wrong.
 
9:05 PM
@Xaade Genesis 1:1 God creates Earth. Genesis 1:3 God creates light. That is not the correct order.
 
@DeadMG AH! But why do they molecules of the air or the slit not observe the electrons I'm shooting?
 
because you made the slit larger than the wavelength of the electron
also, the experiment takes place in a vaccuum
 
@Xaade and we would listen and forget about GR and QM if that happened, unlike mythological models which are outdated today.
 
It's simple. It's prideful to believe that science does anything more than provide predictions. To assume that it accurately describes the universe completely, is arrogant given the amount of revisions basic concepts (like the arrangement of particles in an atom).
 
@DeadMG Well, the slit molecules are in there.
 
9:06 PM
Heck, they even teach it wrong in most grade schools.
 
the slit is an empty vaccuum, there is nothing there to observe the electron
 
There's the slit.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes going back to function template, mainly because i have not yet understood class templates, so i am giving 2 clues to compiler. Clue #1. template<int> -- so i have restricted template to accept ONLY int, Clue #2 add(int x), here i am telling compiler that ONLY int should be passed to add(), so where is ambiguity left for compiler?
 
and those electrons which miss the slits and hit .. cardboard or whatever they cut slits in :P are indeed observed
 
@DeadMG Interactions do not need to be "collisions".
 
9:07 PM
@fabianhjr Would you listen if the theory validated God, and also coorelated every event in the Bible, explained by some natural force God wields.
 
They can be with EM or gravitical forces.
 
no, they don't
 
Surely the electrons, being particles with mass, can interact gravitically with the molecules of the slit.
 
but as I previously stated, the reality is that other interactions are basically non-existent
gravity is an impeccably weak force, and so is EM over that range and given the charge of one single electron
 
@Xaade no because there is no way to predict such energy, there is overwhelming evidence against a lot of events in the bible.(Not all for which several could have actually happened)
 
9:08 PM
But that's the part that is fuzzy: where that limit is.
 
the interactions between the molecules of the slit and the single electron you're firing through it would only observe the electron in the slightest fraction and not make any meaningful difference at all
@RMartinhoFernandes I told you: one wavefunction period.
 
@DeadMG but the force has an effect, no matter how diminished.
 
you're missing the point
because of the fact that the electron and the molecules both have indeterminate positions
the value of the force itself is also indeterminate
 
The notion that the effects in reality rely on the point in time of observation is a silly notion.
 
@DeadMG Won't the molecules of the slit observe each other and thus make their positions determined?
 
9:10 PM
not enough
there's a big difference to nailing down the position of a cat to the nearest 10^-9 metres, and nailing down the position of an electron to the nearest 10^-9 metres
 
@DeadMG By what meaning.... that's ridiculous. I could extend this further. If no one observed the results on the page that observed the particles, can we say for sure that anything was observed or is that interaction have indeterminate measurement.s
 
Also, can't the experiment be realized with protons?
 
no, that's ridiculous
observations aren't made by people, they're made by other particles
who usually cause the observation to take place, of course
@RMartinhoFernandes Theoretically, yes. However, protons are not so easy to produce and fire as electrons, and they have different wavelengths and such
 
@DeadMG But if particle A cannot be observed and therefore determined, then how can it observe particle B.
 
particle A still exists
 
9:13 PM
@DeadMG But the proton is a composite particle. Won't the quarks in it interact through the strong force?
 
and it only observes particle B to a certain extent
 
(And thus, observe each other)
 
when you consider a hydrogen atom, then the proton and the electron interact electrically
but the electron still doesn't have a fixed position
it only has a fixed range of positions
 
@DeadMG You missed my point. If a single particle cannot be observed, how can another single particle observe it.
You end up with an infinite regression.
 
@Xaade Observation is a mutual process. If I absorb a photon emitted from an electron, then it observed me just as much as I observed it.
 
9:15 PM
@DeadMG actually it doesn't have a position at all really.
 
0
A: boost::enable_if not in function signature

Johannes Schaub - litbDefault template arguments are not part of the signature of function templates. But the type of template parameters is. So you can do the following and be able to overload it template < typename T, typename boost::enable_if< boost::is_array<T>, int >::type = 0 > vo...

 
it has a position within certain boundaries
well, it will when you observe it next
in the meantime, though, it could be anywhere
 
@Xaade for common day life you do not depend on QM to make choices, and you do not try to fit QM to your normal life. Nor use QM as an explanation of outcomes. You do not use it as guidance on morality and it is simply an attempt to address the issue on how everything works.
Wait, are we moving to QM or still talking about theism
 
@DeadMG So if a particle never encounters anything, it's position is literally indeterminate. Not just, we don't know, but actually it doesn't have a position.
 
9:16 PM
Also, it seems quantum effects have been observed on macroscopic scales with nanometer-sized diamonds.
 
Please disregard my prev statement, I am now busy doing a NodeJS polling server.
 
yes
 
the particle literally has every position in the Universe all at once
 
quantum effects are not proven
 
9:17 PM
only an observation causes it to have a definite position
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Yes they are. They have been observed.
 
a particle cannot be at two places the same time
 
@fabianhjr then what do you use to make decisions.
 
how is that possible at all
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Yes, it can.
 
9:18 PM
unless you have a worm hole
 
Xeo
74
Q: In Russian roulette, is it best to go first?

nikkitaAssume that we are playing a game of Russian roulette (6 chambers). Assume that there is no shuffling after the shot is fired. I was wondering if you have an advantage in going first? If so, how big of an advantage? I was just debating this with friends, and I wouldn't know what probability to...

Nice question
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Only with very expensive equipment.
 
Johannes, the rules of the macro world do not hold atthat level
the particle can indeed be in literally infinite places at once
 
law of nature are universal and independent of location
 
My wants assessing consequences of my acts based on my understandment of society and human nature.(Which evolves as I interact with it)
 
9:20 PM
anyway
 
@JohannesSchaublitb We're still trying to get that part done. QM and GR do not play nice together.
 
I lately wondered whether you could build a trampoline out of spider silk and then jump on it?
 
At this moment, the laws of nature depend on the scale.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually, all we observed is that it was effected at two places at nearly the same time. We can't accurately measure time, or really prove that it was at two places at the same time. Which is part of my annoyance with QT. There's no difference in our observations, with it being in two places, or jumping between two places too fast for us to observe.
 
Quantum tunnelling refers to the quantum mechanical phenomenon where a particle tunnels through a barrier that it classically could not surmount. This plays an essential role in several physical phenomena, such as the nuclear fusion that occurs in main sequence stars like the sun, and has important applications to modern devices such as the tunnel diode. The effect was predicted in the early 20th century, and its acceptance as a general, physical phenomenon came mid-century. As a consequence of the wave–particle duality of matter, tunnelling is often explained using the Heisenberg uncert...
 
Might be relevant here...
 
@RMartinhoFernandes hmm
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Maybe. The problem is, we do not know the laws of nature.
 
@Xaade A single electron can interfere with itself. That's a quantum effect. It has been observed and explained.
 
we don't even know that there are electrons
 
9:21 PM
We have observed them.
Unless you want to go all philosophical on me, they exist.
Just like cats do.
 
@Xaade Except that only QM's predictions accurately reflect our results.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Reread as "Our understanding of the laws of nature depend on this scale."
 
@JohannesSchaublitb we actually have already observed electrons with the help of scientific equipment, and we understand how electrons behave well enough to build computers with them.
 
@Xaade Yeah, that would be better.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Nothing saying it can't have lingering effect.
 
9:25 PM
@Xaade Then you need to add some "lingering effect" entity to your model. I don't know which one is simpler. Also "lingering effect" can't explain delayed choice quantum erasure, which is an experiment where you decide the path of the electron after it took it.
 
It's quite easy to see it differently. An electron has a center of mass/energy. It's apparent effects radiate from the center. The notion of a particle with a defined position and limit is not accurate.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes We Are One.
 
@StackedCrooked That's a page with a single Flash thingy in it. Is it really worth for me to enable Flash for it?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Absolutely!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That's the only point that I'm trying to make. That it's possible that our entire understanding is wrong, top to bottom. The inconsistencies at scale make me curiously suspicious. However, "unbelievably unlikely" this notion is.
 
9:27 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes is it highly recommended or somehow got your attention trough other means? yes : no;
 
@Xaade That would predict that the effects are circular or spherical, which I believe is not accurate
 
Well, he could complicate his model further and make it correct.
 
@Xaade The fact that there are known gaps in our knowledge does not make it wrong. The fact is that QM has very successfully produced incredibly advanced technology and revolutionised our society. If it were wrong, these things wouldn't happen.
 
@StackedCrooked This is ridiculous.
 
@DeadMG doesn't have to radiate out in a sphere.
 
9:28 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Whaa?
 
@Xaade tell me how many times something fell of by itself defying gravity? Our model is incomplete and sometimes has inaccurate propositions, science expands and fixes those parts.
 
@StackedCrooked ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!
 
@fabianhjr Lots of things did.
 
-1
Q: matrix with dimensions mxn in C++

buuuuuMatrix given in memory to print the spiral in opposite direction from clockwise (left column down the right lower range, right up column, a series of upper left, etc. until you get to the environment). This works just for dimension 3x3. this should works for mxn dimension. but i don't know how, a...

 
@DeadMG Could radiate out in a box or cube, if it had components.
 
9:29 PM
On itself, without magnetism, or popellants or other medium.
 
@fabianhjr Mercury's orbit could not be explained until the 20th century.
 
I think we should register gimme-teh-codez.com and rig it to dump a random 100 lines of linux kernel source, along with the message "If you had a real question, you could ask on stackoverflow.com"
 
Then it was explained. :/
 
Mercury defied gravity for about 4 centuries.
 
@fabianhjr planets can generate energy if they are constantly changing in size or shape due to gravitational interference, which affects, a lot of things.
 
9:31 PM
Yet gravity is still present.
 
Nothing lasts forever.
 
I don't understand what's so hard about, "We've been wrong in the past." "We could be wrong today."
 
there's nothing hard about that
what's hard is the proposed alternative explanation
 
@RMartinhoFernandes And there's a few small deviations left. Mercury's orbit with GR has a deviation that's slightly higher than measurement error. Then you have the Pioneer anomaly and Earth-flyby anomalies. All are slight and are pending new research.
 
@Stacked It was not worth it.
 
9:32 PM
also, what's hard about that is that our "wrong" physics has produced so many successful results
 
Xaade we could be wrong but it is the most accurate model we have to express reality and shape it.
 
if QM was wrong, then transistors couldn't work
 
@fabianhjr It's still not. Refer to @Mysticial's comment.
 
We use science to make our life easier.
 
we wouldn't have built one and had it work exactly as we expected
 
9:33 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes it is the most accurate model we currently have to express reality*.
 
@DeadMG We're using different expectations for "wrong". I'm expecting that a theory accurately describes reality. You're expect that a theory reproduces expected results. My point is that a theory doesn't describe reality, it describes a possible reality with identical results.
 
it describes reality if it produces the result you expect
a possible reality with identical results would be an identical reality
 
I don't really see the big difference.
 
> The effect is an extremely small but unexplained acceleration towards the Sun, of 8.74±1.33×10−10 m/s2.
^ blahblah x 10 ^ (-10) ms/s2
 
perhaps it is because the speed of light is not constant
 
9:38 PM
-1?
 
the speed of light is very constant
it is 1 plank distance in 1 plank time
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That's a ridiculously small number.
 
we are on an edge for being disproven
 
@DeadMG That's cheating unless those units are constant.
 
we found recently that the speed of light is faster for some materials (neutrons)
 
9:38 PM
they are
@JohannesSchaublitb Those experiments are not even close to being confirmed.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb It was neutrinos, and we haven't found anything yet.
And anyway, that would not have been the conclusion.
 
it's likely the experiments will be confirmed
 
The conclusion would be that neutrinos are faster than light.
 
they were made under hard conditions after all
@RMartinhoFernandes so the speed of light is slower for neutrinos
 
It's in no repro status.
 
9:40 PM
because they are faster
 
Slower than.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb And it's 2012.
 
no, the speed of light would be faster for neutrinos
since they can move faster
 
Speeds can't be faster.
 
exactly
it's most likely by a long way that there was an as-yet-undetected experimental error
and even if it was confirmed, it would not change the speed of light
 
9:41 PM
i still hope we will be able to tunnel through neutrino channels
 
it would merely prove that neutrinos are not limited by it
 
so we can travel to mars in about minutes
 
(Possibly)
 
To change the speed of light you need to observe light travelling faster (or slower), not neutrinos travelling faster.
@JohannesSchaublitb We already can do that.
Obama did so in the 80s.
 
no it takes us months to travel to mars
 
9:44 PM
Yes, to us it takes a long time. But to people that worked for the CIA to establish alliance with the Martian humanoids and animals, like Obama, it's almost instantaneous.
 
0_o wow, never saw that coming.
\me goes for popcorn
 
can someone help me with a c# error? i tried in the chatroom but no one talks there
 
BRB, lunch time
 
@fabianhjr You're having popcorn for lunch?
 
psycho, you can always post a link. but it looks to me like both your questions have accepted answers.
 
9:45 PM
is that good or bad?
and ben those aren't the questions i need help with
 
it's a seperate project
 
well, I wouldn't ask C# stuff here unless the answer you're looking for is "C++ is superior to C#, here's how you solve it in C++"
but many of us are interested in both, and might follow a link to a C# question
 
uhh its just that my program i made shows no output in console , i'll pastebin my code
@BenVoigt ben look pastebin.com/bMUhLDU8
 
no output and no exception? Maybe your console is redirected? Maybe you aren't compiling and executing the code you think you are?
and what happened to the physics discussion?
 
9:50 PM
I killed it with the Obama going to Mars thing.
 
Godwin's law for the 21st century?
 
yeah ben its supposed to put writeline, exception??
 
What is a "BS in Computer Science"? I can't help but think "Bullshit in Computer Science", but it's supposed to be some kind of degree. Is that the level right before master's?
 
Bachelor of Science
and yes, among common degrees, it's the one immediately inferior to master's
 
9:53 PM
Ok, thanks.
 
Psycho, ideone is better for some things than pastebin. ideone.com/0bUJY But it looks like you've really confused the compiler.
However, I think I see your problem
 
@BenVoigt Gosh. Stack overflow in the compiler?
 
the setter for FrequentCustomer.CustNum calls itself recursively
 
Oh wait, it's runtime.
 
im deleting the last get set at the bottom i think thats the problem
 
9:58 PM
R, on second glance it's the runtime library, trying to print out the stackoverflow exception, runs out of memory
because the stack trace is so large, or else it's trying to do that with an already-full stack
Psycho, it's the setter. The getter uses base.CustNum, the setter doesn't and instead calls itself.
 
what should i change?
 
Why didn't you post a question on stackoverflow for this?
I think you need to change the setter to assign base.CustNum.
 

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