« first day (2312 days earlier)      last day (2630 days later) » 

12:11 AM
Hello, Cruel World!
@Puppy @JohanLarsson The 4th derivative has a name, too. I forget what it is atm, though.
In physics, jounce or snap is the fourth derivative of the position vector with respect to time or the rate of change of the jerk with respect to time. Equivalently, it is second derivative of acceleration or the third derivative of velocity. Jounce is defined by any of the following equivalent expressions: s → = d ȷ → ...
That jogs my memory. I heard it called "snap"
 
12:38 AM
not every function has so many derivatives ... or their derivative is constantly 0 :p for example 4th derivative of y = x^2
 
a derivative of 0 is clearly not the same as not having a derivative
 
Well, a derivative is basically removing a dimension from a graph. Complex systems can have as many dimensions as there are variables that interact (knobs, levers, etc.)
 
Today I put noexcept specification everywhere just because I could
 
12:59 AM
we need preprocessor enums
 
preprocessor what now
 
1:13 AM
w/p
 
@sehe all that meme does is denigrate those that voted for trump. Those people weren't stupid, uneducated, or lacking in any intellectual way by large and whole, it was the majority of Americans that voted for him. The majority of Americans aren't stupid.
 
Well. What makes you think Americans would be so special :)
They're humans.
 
@sehe I don't think Americans are any more special than any people of any other country. I actually prefer those in England over Americans but that's just me.
 
I probably should take off the smiley. This is dead serious stuff. Humans are helpless herd animals in many respects. They're being played like a violin. And yes, that's not smart. In NO way unique to the US. Sadly
However. You do need a critical mass of "dumb" people to get this group effect going. Unless you can make a lot of people instinctively nod in approval - without giving things much thought - demogagy is not a fun hobby
Once it's there, it's precisely the mass effect that you quote. "Everybody knows this", "More people would be worried", "The majority of Americans aren't stupid"
 
@sehe have you ever studied the political breakdown of American voters? Trump was pitted to loose by everyone that does study the politics in America. Think about that for a second. It wasn't the people in the cities, it was the people that want to work. It wasn't those asking for hand out's it was those that run companies. That's what I'm saying.
 
1:25 AM
I'm not sure I get your point.
 
@sehe I don't agree with everything trump says by any means. But I do whole heatedly agree that he was a better candidate than Clinton.
my point is this isn't just in america
 
Define "better".
 
it started in Europe.
 
@johnathon That's not what your arguments are related to
 
@johnathon Most of those who did vote didn't vote for Trump. And a lot of people didn't even vote.
 
1:26 AM
> "Think about that for a second. It wasn't the people in the cities, it was the people that want to work. It wasn't those asking for hand out's it was those that run companies"
What is that about? Too many ellipses for me to figure out what you want to say
 
@EtiennedeMartel actually, if you look at the county break down, he got the majority of the votes as well as the electoral.
 
@johnathon He didn't get the majority of the votes, no matter how you put it.
 
Redefining maths is not out of the question. That's not in the constitution.
 
@sehe what i'm saying is your perspective on American politics is about like an American's perspective on German politics.
@EtiennedeMartel Do you wish to refine your statement, he's president.
 
@johnathon The Electoral College is a broken mess.
 
1:28 AM
@johnathon First off, how do you know this. Second, what does the quoted verbiage have to do with that?
 
@EtiennedeMartel No , that's actually the one good thing left in america
 
@johnathon The lesson to learn here is that counting votes is not adding up floating-point. Addition is associative. And no matter how you break it down, the sum of all the votes in the country are the same and Trump lost by around 3 million. He only won on a technicality - ie. the electoral college.
 
If by better you mean a bigger embarrassment, then I'm sure you're correct. He only received the majority of electoral college votes. Arguing that other nations do not understand politics is arguing that America understands politics better.
Most of your premises are built on sinkholes
 
@johnathon The "people who want work" elected a guy who's gonna make Wall Street very happy.
Which, in turn, means those people are not gonna find work. They're gonna get shafted.
Very hard.
 
@Mysticial This country is a Republic. Not a democracy. That's the lesson to learn for a lot of people involved in the democratic party from this last election cycle.
@EtiennedeMartel what does the people on wall street do? They invest. Invest in what? Everything, that includes jobs.
 
1:30 AM
@Aaron3468 Well. There are MANY measures by which Trump is the better candidate. Including, but not limited to, penis size, winner's mentality, influencing people, valueing power, pragmatic reasoning etc.
@johnathon Trickle down, right
 
@johnathon They invest in themselves. They don't give a shit about other people. People voted for Trump because he made a lot of promises. And the alternative (Hillary) was also shit.
 
@johnathon In theory. In practice they mostly try to make their shareholders happy, to the detriment of everyone else.
 
@Aaron3468 I don't understand other countries politics much, primarily because I don't pay attention to them. @Mysticial i agree. @EtiennedeMartel Have you ever worked in finance, or ebuisness? Because i HAVE.
 
Why the fuck would Trump undo the fiduciary rule if he gave at one shit about the average person and not the rich people who have the money.
 
1:32 AM
@johnathon So, you were projecting my ignorance of US politics (I'm guilty as charged, but you didn't substantiate any of your claims, nor bothered to explain the reasoning you threw at me)
 
@johnathon I don't know man, the IMF and the World Bank both agree that the biggest issue to affect western economies right now is income and wealth disparities, and giving more means to rich people to concentrate more wealth into their hands isn't gonna do much to solve that problem.
 
@Mysticial have the US steel mills restarted production? Yes. Has the pipeline bills been passed? Yes.. he's bringing work back to America. Undoing NAFTA crap from my teenage years. It's not a bad thing at all.
 
All I can hear is argumentum ad authoritatem vs. poisoning the well.
 
@Mysticial the ONLY drawback to any of it i see is the potential for commodity goods to inflate a touch.
 
For example, executive orders give the police more power and protection from individuals. Sure the people who want to work are going to work, but they'll be made to. Just like the people who want to keep their pregnancies will get to, but they'll be made to.
 
1:34 AM
Executive orders don't do sqat
they are by and large not even applicable to laws that aren't already on the books, which is exactly what all of his executive orders did, told the government to enforce the laws that were already on the books.
 
Oh, right, let's not forget about how the government is actually run by a fucking nazi.
 
One nearly banned all individuals without citizenship from entering the country. (or rather did until it was shot down)
 
@johnathon Have you heard of the term structural unemployment? Those jobs are not coming back. Sure Trump may make one factory return, but he's not gonna give the entire midwest back their jobs. Those jobs are gone. Sure you can bring back the ones that went overseas but you cannot bring back the ones taken away by automation. What are you gonna do? Ban automation? You might as well return to the stone ages.
 
They were originally used to handle business of the white house only, and i personally think that's what they should be limited to today.
 
@johnathon Then you must agree he's not a smart man for risking so much turmoil over things that basically do sqat
 
1:35 AM
@Aaron3468 which obama did himself for 8 years
 
@johnathon I think I'll grant you this one
 
@Mysticial Honestly I was disappointed when he refused to ratify the TPP because that would have given America a huge competitive edge in trade (implying the creation of new jobs).
 
@Mysticial What I find especially interesting is, when some company moves their factories to, say, Mexico, the American workers who just lost their job then get angry at Mexicans, and not the fucking company who just fucked 'em.
(I'm exaggerating, of course)
 
@Mysticial by and large forging factories in the big still mills can't really be automated, and what automation can be done is being done, that's not to say a worker looses his job, he gets trained to run the new machines. It's the same in any industry, automotive in particular. If robots was going to put everyone out of work, then we'd have no jobs in automotive.
@Mysticial Just like robots haven't put surgeons out of a job, but there's surgery robots now too
 
@johnathon Yes they can. Every single non-creative job will get automated sooner or later because capitalism incentivizes greed and that means cutting costs and that means paying less for your workers and eventually the cheapest workers are gonna be robots.
 
1:38 AM
@johnathon Surgeons are not blue-collar jobs.
 
@johnathon No it's not like that. A surgical robot requires a surgeon to operate it. 1:1
It's a silly gloss-over comparison
 
@EtiennedeMartel Let me get this straight, your a programmer complaining about automation....
 
Straw man
 
@johnathon I'm mostly someone who doesn't just care about my own sorry ass.
 
being a part of the group causing the reduction of jobs does not preclude him from recognizing what his job helps do
 
1:40 AM
I don't like that our governments don't seem to care a lot about how, at the current rate, entire swathes of the job market are gonna get erased by automation within a few decades.
 
@sehe Yes, but that's not a gloss over comparison, it takes someone skilled in welding to identify defects in welded products by robotics... There's not a job loss, and considering I've done this kind of thing it's much more typical for people to be assigned to other places within a company.
 
@sehe What's interesting is that this talk is banned for being "too politically controversial", but Trump was not
 
That's, however, not really the problem.
 
Sounds like it's a looming catastrophe that should be adressed before it gets too bad, right? But nope, let the market handle it.
 
Indeed, I'd argue that programmers and roboticists are rather well placed for knowing how automation is reducing jobs.
 
1:42 AM
@EtiennedeMartel There is some truth to it though. Since a lot of undocumented workers end up taking the jobs of others for lower wages. But I don't have any numbers to say how much.
 
How did we get from identity politics to the relatively safe topic of "automation will change the job market"
The interesting part of this discussion is what is /not/ being addressed.
 
And what is that?
 
But that's more of an economic issue as you have a greater supply of workers. In no way is it at the level that Trump implies that they are "criminals, rapists, etc..."
 
@johnathon ...but the Q/A job would have been there all along, to check work by human welders. Perhaps it might have been distributed among the welders, who were all expected to check their own work, but the end result is that one person and at least one robot can now do the job of multiple people
 
Drop the pearls of wisdom on this table. Come on. Do it.
I know you want to.
 
1:43 AM
@jaggedSpire you should check out GM's welding robots, that's the exact example i was referring to.
 
@johnathon Those are fairly crude robots compared to what we have now.
 
lol
 
and then machine vision comes along and takes the Q/A job
 
@EtiennedeMartel The demagogic side of the politics. The attribution of fault. The enemy image creation.
 
and the programmer comes out.
Heres the truth, and let's be completely real with our self's. How many times has the president of the USA ever done anything that impacted any one of us directly?
 
1:45 AM
@johnathon Depends on what you mean by "us".
 
Unless you work in government , or an industry regulated by government, what that office does is mostly not applicable to you
 
I smell a faint air of "if it doesn't happen to me it's not a real problem" attitude.
6
 
^^
 
@EtiennedeMartel Not at all, but tell me who you voted for?\
 
1:46 AM
He's canadian
 
The NDP.
 
@EtiennedeMartel And how exactly are you going to change things?
@jaggedSpire i live in Tn sir.
 
Ell
Automation is a pretty difficult problem
 
@Ell yes.
 
@johnathon Numerous times. That fallacy is precisely the reason why I think the majority of Americans /are/ to blame for things that Trump does. Even those who didn't vote for him.
All the people that don't speak up and think "well it doesn't impact me, so I don't really give a damn". They enable the unraveling of US government values
 
1:47 AM
Also a lucrative one
 
@sehe what's that title to the lounge?
@jaggedSpire yes.
 
@johnathon Hint: it wasn't a faint smell. Your gas light is flakey
 
@johnathon For me, the answer is yes. When I was between jobs last year, I was forced to pay up to avoid the penalty for not having insurance because of Obamacare. But that's hardly a nit given that Obama didn't fuck the world up during his 8 years.
 
@johnathon Better find out. I'd love to know what you thought once you do find out.
 
@Mysticial exactly.
@Mysticial and that's the boat I'm in myself atm. So it is what is. The thing is obama didn't write the bill, and congress held a special midnight session to pass the thing in the first place. Who should we really be mad at?
@she
@sehe Please, by all means, immigrate to the USA. Perhaps your voice will be heard loud enough to effect change.
 
1:50 AM
@johnathon I would much rather pay up a few thousand $$ than to have some madman turn this country into Germany circa 1930s. (intentional invocation of Godwin's Law.)
 
@johnathon What's that now, fatalism? Nihilism?
FWIW the current lounge title is a mocking reference to a fallacious argument made by another populist. One of the Russian brand.
 
@johnathon Honestly I wouldn't mind Trump if he used congress more. Want to reduce terrorism by vetting people more? Make a bill so that everybody's on the same page and there are systems in place to appeal the decision when necessary
 
@Mysticial I don't think that's possible. Being not entirely white belive me my eye is on that ball too.
 
@johnathon Given the amount of resistance that's going on and that at least half the country can see through his lies, I'm somewhat confident it won't happen. But I wouldn't bet my life on that.
 
Making an executive order overnight is poor policy-making, and Trump keeps repeating it without considering consequences
 
1:51 AM
@sehe When the status quo benefits you, why change anything?
 
Not really what I was reading into that
 
@Mysticial most of the country, the majority of the country, agrees with trump.
@Mysticial go look at the county break down of how the votes fell.
 
@EtiennedeMartel More like "power will have its way anyways, best to go with it". Like: get with the program
 
@johnathon Gallup says Trump has a 40% approval rating.
 
@Mysticial the county, not the state, not the electorial, the county popular votes.
@EtiennedeMartel Gallup ....LMAO
 
1:52 AM
@johnathon Why the fuck are you bringing up county votes? Counties != people.
 
@johnathon Counties are gerrymandered aberations.
 
@Mysticial counties is where the people live sir.
 
The fact remains that most people are against Trump.
 
@Mysticial it's the smallest division of population we count votes from
 
@johnathon ...Hillary won the popular vote by 2.9 million people. It's (slightly less than) half the voting population that voted for Trump, and many of them were nose-holders.
 
1:53 AM
@johnathon The Earth is where people live sir.
 
@Mysticial look at the map
@Mysticial tell me it's not almost ALL red .
 
@johnathon I thought we counted votes by person.
3
 
@EtiennedeMartel he counts votes in the way that is advantages to him - no matter how little sense it makes.
 
@johnathon Cities have a higher population density by miles.
 
@johnathon Those divisions have been carefully crafted to favor the Republicans. Don't you know about gerrymandering?
 
1:54 AM
@johnathon tell me, the earth is almost ALL blue.
 
Perhaps while looking at your map, change each county to be proportionate to the size of the population that inhabits it.
Here's a hint: after the transform, Chicago will be almost half of Illinois.
 
@jaggedSpire in just about every major city in the usa hillary won. Go look at the demographics of the Cities in the usa and tell me why she won. @Mystical yes, but we dont count votes from everyone in the earth, we don't have a one world government.
 
@johnathon Yes. The thing is, the people who live in cities are also Americans
 
Then why did Hillary get more votes?
 
@johnathon Educated people with high incomes and high expenses?
 
1:55 AM
@EtiennedeMartel I'd be willing to bet that I'm much more in touch with the evils of this country than you would be wiling to belive.
 
@johnathon I love how you can prove points by just laughing your ass off
 
@johnathon You're not making any sense here.
 
So.. if you don't like trump... did you not agree with brexit?
 
The country isn't divided into Real People who live in the country, and Democrat Stooges who mass, hive-like, in cities.
 
Ell
@johnathon don't start
 
1:56 AM
@Mysticial i am making sense here. Gallop polls are stupid.
 
@johnathon Tu quoque, moving the goal posts, and straw man
 
Ell
You're not doing well now, it's only going to get more difficult
 
@Ell i have a right to start.
 
@sehe Although he has a point, I also don't like Brexit.
 
@johnathon Oh sure
 
Ell
1:57 AM
@johnathon of course
I just think you won't gain anything from it
and nor will anybody else, I think
 
I dunno, he's made one great point about executive orders. By now that's maybe a 2% proportion of good discussion with him so far.
 
@johnathon What does it mean to "agree with Trump"? Does it mean that indeed Ivanka should be selling more? Does it mean green card holders should be stopped at border? Does it mean president should do public affairs off the record, behind blacked windows, on a private jet or at the "Winter White House"? Does it mean they agree Bowling Green is just an alternative fact?
And America is facing grave danger, which the media will downplay? Does it mean they think ratings to the Apprentice are abysmal?
Does it mean we think America is in dark times, facing DEATH and destruction?
@Aaron3468 Agreed with that point.
Hint. The people do not "agree with Trump". They just hope that Trump will represent their personal interest best.
 
I think that perhaps both parts of the political divide have forgotten that half the population of their country lives in an entirely different environment to them--those that live in the city think the country is too sparsely populated to amount to any great population, forgetting how much country there is, and those who live in rural areas look at the sheer rural land mass and think that cities can't possibly hold as many people as all that space does.
the New York metro area contains 9 million people, and the state contains 18 million.
 
Yeah. A lot if written about those who live in "bubbles" on coastal cities, but there's a lot of bubbles in the middle of America.
 
The St. Louis metro area contains 2.9 million people, and Missouri 6 million.
 
2:03 AM
@johnathon Which is fucking retarded
Might as well take 15.4, round it down to 15, then round it down to 10, then round it down to 0
 
has any of you had your family's company shut down because of government regulation?
Any of you?
 
Any of you have a history of politics?
I have.
 
Has Trump murdered your parents
 
LMAO
Ok i'll break it down to you.
 
2:04 AM
@johnathon Nobody cares
 
No, I had apps removed from market because of app store regulation
 
@milleniumbug thats what the rest of America thinks about the opinion that trump shouldn't be president
@Telkitty i know how you feel.
 
@jaggedSpire The political divide in the country is so sharp that you can't help but think what it would be like if the two halves went their own ways. (putting aside the fact that you wouldn't have a contiguous border)
 
@johnathon this sounds weirdly accurate
 
@Mysticial ...yeah. :S
 
2:06 AM
But I am kind of busy juggling a few things nowadays. App restoration is low on priority because it doesn't bring home much $
 
@johnathon Wait. Did your family's company get shut down because of govt regulations. That. Sucks. Honestly
 
@Mysticial Yeah, I recall more than a few articles and videos pointing out how the political divide is nearly 50/50 and that's what I wonder as well. Why don't the states secede into two smaller sovereign nations?
 
@sehe yes, it did. We were an automotive manufacturer. The professional car society keeps records of the business though, you can look it up. I'll give you a hint, the Mercury comet was named after our business.
 
Note I wasn't contesting anything.
 
@jaggedSpire TBH, I am a little bit worried about Calexit. I'm from the area and my family lives there. If Calexit happens, the rest of the country is gonna be deep red for generations to come. And while I can go home, I might not be able to come back to Chicago where I am now. (since I'm not white, and I was born in California, not elsewhere in the US)
 
2:09 AM
@sehe i know, i was just giving you means to learn about it. It's personal to me
 
...there have actually been a few aborted motions for some rural areas of some states to secede from the state as a whole.
@Mysticial I don't think it will. Texas made motions to secede when Obama was first in office, too.
 
@johnathon Ok. I'm not sure I'll look it up. I was expressing my sympathy. Because I think that sucks. Kinda curious what govt. regulation (don't say "child labour legislation" :))
 
@sehe healthcare regulations actually. had to do with federal funding and ambulance regulations
@sehe in your country for example, some non truck platforms can be converted to ambulances , and still do, there's a few made on a volvo platform every year there
 
I like to entertain the idea of Quebec annexing Vermont.
 
@sehe here in the states it's regulated to trucks and vans
 
2:11 AM
@johnathon Mmm. Does that mean you had to provide more facilities for employees, or simply that you lsot a large contract somehow?
@johnathon Ok. It's still tough shit of course, it can be pretty prohibitive to adapt to rule changes. If not impossible. How did those new requirements hold up in court (where they /rationally based/)
 
@sehe our products were jig built, and re-investing in tooling wasn't a financial option as we were a part of a much larger structure, part of wane-divco, miller-metor, and of couse , comet/cotner-bevington
 
@EtiennedeMartel Bernie! Bernie! Bernie! Bernie! Bernie! Bernie!
 
@sehe it had to do with the automotive platform that ambulances were built off of
 
We have to hurry though, he's getting old =/
 
Seriously, they make great beer, and maple syrup, and they have legal pot. Perfect match.
 
2:13 AM
@EtiennedeMartel ...are you planning on stealing Bernie Sanders
>:(
 
@jaggedSpire You guys don't appreciate him enough :(
 
@sehe no community receiving federal funds was to be able to get them if they had an ambulance in service that wasn't built from a truck platform
 
True :(
 
@jaggedSpire It's funny now because Texas isn't as deep red as it used to be thanks to immigrants.
 
@sehe all of our tooling was for car platforms, like the volvo's that are made there in Germany.
 
2:14 AM
@johnathon That sounds like hardly relevant, sadly. The relevant thing was whether the rules that pushed your cpy out of that particular market were fair.
 
@Mysticial Yep. I really pity Austin, actually.
 
Besides that, maybe whether the company is healthy if losing a particular set of contracts up-ends the business
 
One of the most left-leaning cities, and it's Capitol for Texas.
 
@jaggedSpire And California is so deeply blue right now that I can see a Calexit happening. The scary thing is that a lot of those on the right aren't against the idea since they think California is out of whack.
 
@sehe if all your tooling is for cars, all your jigs, all your sheet metal work, everything was for cars, and none of your tooling is for trucks, you don't have an option, you was done for. It killed a lot of companies, not just ours. Wane-divco, miller-metor, etc
 
2:16 AM
But regardless of all of this, I'll concede that I think you might be entitled to speak of rules that have unfair impact on individuals.
 
@sehe it's part of American automotive history
 
Though I suppose the politicians there are also unfortunate. Elected by the rest of the state, and have to spend all their working time surrounded by people who deeply disagree with almost all of them on any number of topics (except Texas pride, of course)
 
@jaggedSpire lol
 
@johnathon Note, I'm still not contesting any of that.
You are evading the question about fairness of the rule in question. Was it ever challenged (if not, why not?)
 
People who only have to walk down the street (and get a permit) to protest
 
2:18 AM
@johnathon Were they /all/ in the business of selling platforms for ambulances? Makes me wonder about the size of that branch. Or that of the companies named.
 
@Mysticial Yeah. People keep saying how if you remove California, Trump really won the popular vote. Because obviously, California is populated entirely by fake people who shouldn't count.
 
@sehe oldsmobile = us, Caddaliac = Miller-Metor, etc
 
That doesn't really answer my question. This is a pattern.
 
@sehe Superior = ford, i don't remember who did the Chrysler vehicles off the top of my head but we did a few of those too. it's not pattern, it's platform.
 
Perhaps you're not trying to answer at all. Just sharing war stories. In which case, carry on
 
2:20 AM
I'm trying to but there's a concept lost in translation here
it's a physical one.
a car is built entirely different than a truck
 
I think I got that. I know how rules work.
 
a manufacturer's vehicles aren't all that dissimilar to one another, especially in the ranks of GM products
 
@johnathon You're just skipping specific questions. I'm not even sure you're reading them. [There was no possible confusion between pattern or platform, for instance)
 
much more so than anything iv'e seen out of the VW group
@sehe im trying answer your questions, and i am, but your not getting the answer
 
On that we agree :)
 
2:22 AM
@sehe speak to someone there that's knowledgeable about the automotive world
@sehe perhaps they can clarify in a manner that you'll understand
 
@jaggedSpire So I just came across this Quora answer that says that blue states pay out a lot of memory to red states in federal funding. So if all the blue states left (or even just California), um... it would be a "big deal".
 
@johnathon I thought I was. Apparently... not?
6 mins ago, by sehe
You are evading the question about fairness of the rule in question. Was it ever challenged (if not, why not?)
> How did those new requirements hold up in court (where they /rationally based/)
 
@sehe Does it matter if i think it's fair? It held up in court obviously.
 
@Mysticial It would indeed. If you take states as individual economies, California is the sixth largest on the planet, right?
 
@johnathon Ok. Well. Apparently judges found the reasoning to be well founded. Do you know what the reasoning was?
 
2:25 AM
@sehe it's federal funds to a public service, ambulances
 
Because if that's just bureacracy/corruption favoring the competition...
 
@Mysticial I know you said RAM prices were high, but being used as legal tender? sheesh
 
lol
 
@johnathon If they randomly change requirements, that's not fair. If they change requirements for solid reasons A, B, and C, that's a different story. That's probably just sad or unfortunate
 
...yep.
 
2:26 AM
@jaggedSpire Found a slightly more credible article:
 
California is indeed the sixth largest economy on the planet.
 
@johnathon Appreciate that. Looking
 
@jaggedSpire think of what it would be like in California if the majority of your goods were taxed at the state border. And at the same rate, the products that California made taxed like crazy to the rest of the nation. Not a good thought IMHO
 
@Mysticial http://www.tweaktown.com/news/56232/amd-ryzen-7-1700x-benchmarks-crazy-performance-389/index.html
(Warning take a screenshot of the page before the anti ad blocker kicks in)
 
2:30 AM
@johnathon a valid point
 
> "(I) which vehicles and facilities meet appropriate standards relating to location, design,
performance, and equipment, and
@johnathon That doesn't seem to point out the actual design requirements, let alone the rationale for it. Note I'm not interested in the rationale (because I'm not qualified to judge it), just whether a good rationale exists and was sufficiently challenged. Because if the design requirements are solid and rationally based, it makes sense for suppliers who can't meet those requirements to drop out of these particular contracts.
 
@sehe it was challenged by the whole dang industry at the time.
 
That would make it sufficiently challenged. Are you trying to say the rules were frivolous, and so were the judges involved?
 
@sehe it's an indirect issue. The customers of our product was going to loose their funding if they kept using our product
 
I get that. I'm only looking at the requirements themselves. THEY caused the problem, if indirectly.
 
2:35 AM
@sehe I'm saying this was challenged from Detroit down to us. The law stood. It's a public funding law.
@sehe yes, but it wasn't saying 'hey you can't do that' , it was saying 'if you are receiving federal funding you must comply with these regulations'
 
> It's a public funding law.
You say that as if it explains "The law stood". It doesn't. Public funding laws generally have to meet the highest criteria to rule out false competition or even nepotism etc.
@johnathon At least in Europe, the rules governing public funding are the strictest (with varying results, but at least they can be successfully challenged)
 
@sehe it's not the same in america as it is in germany, not entirely. There's simmilarities, and there's big differences, this very well may be a big difference because here they can take your house if they feel like it's in the public's best interest and there's not much you can do about it
@sehe and worse about that is when they do, they pay you what they view as fair value for the property
 
note they do have to provide just payment for it, though they usually try for the minimum possible amount (of course)
 
@sehe and if you don't agree to their price, you don't get paid anything
 
@johnathon Seems to me you must loathe the likes of Trump
 
2:39 AM
@sehe not as much as i loathe the likes of Hillary
 
Because that's exactly the tactics that built the Trump empire. At least the last decade(s)
@johnathon I didn't ask about that.
 
Eminent domain laws exist in all countries and are quite similar...
 
@sehe but here there's not much of a choice in the matter, as far as elections go
 
Yeah. Dems did themselves in. Big time.
 
yes.
 
2:40 AM
Oh, I'm trying to analyze the economic impacts of a Calexit. And I'm surprised to find that California exports more agriculture than than it imports. IOW, California isn't as dependent on the rest of the US for food as I originally thought.
 
But culturally, it started in Europe.
 
Now I can see why Calexit is a thing.
 
@johnathon Hmm?
 
@sehe brexit
 
@Mysticial And why Quebexit is not T.T
 
2:41 AM
@johnathon I don't think Brexit influenced US politics much if at all, really.
 
@Aaron3468 It almost happened.
 
Also, Brexit wasn't the first sign.
 
@sehe the mindset of the voting populace, yea it did actually
 
How can you tell
 
@sehe it's been boiling for a while though.
@sehe the election results?
lol
 
2:42 AM
Huh. Correlation and causation.
Not the same things.
 
it's the general view in america of brexit
we view it , generally, as a positive thing for Britain.
and it's based on the same polotical principals as what part of trumps message was about
 
Where you live, perhaps
 
@johnathon I think this is more on point. Things have been brewing across the globe. I personally think it's mostly a natural cycle; there's too much wealth, people get lazy and they find out late that wealth is not being distributed fairly. Then they get discontented and the pendulum swings.
 
The people I know largely viewed it with confusion and some amount of horror
 
@sehe but you really have to understand the democratic mindset. I say this, as technically, a democrat, but there's a lot of things they do that i don't agree with, for instance, all the telephones on the side of the interstate past needles ca going into LA
 
2:45 AM
@johnathon Trump tried to make it about that, at least.
> all the telephones on the side of the interstate past needles ca going into LA
what
 
@sehe a lot of money was put into a public resource , only to not be used.
@sehe waste.. tons of it.
@jaggedSpire horror about what aspect of brexit?
 
...I assume you'd want the aid phones in the area to go to Las Vegas?
 
Again, a direct question goes unanswered. You just heap on more suggestive assertions, I still don't know what "the telephones on the side of the interstate" means. Or "past needles ca going into LA"
 
It's a desert. They do need phones along the interstate, or people might die.
 
@jaggedSpire no, but name me one person who works, and dosn't have a cell phone, or for that matter, dosn't work. .. these days...
 
2:48 AM
@johnathon ...
There isn't always cell phone reception there.
 
> these days
Things have changed much more rapidly than many fathomed.
 
@jaggedSpire I agree, but pull up how many times they've been utilized say in the past 2 years
 
@johnathon I recall that the Brexit maps show most of South Britain choosing Leave. Save for London, Scotland, and Northern Ireland. To be fair, you're correct because Trump is isolationist and Brexit was an isolationist motion.
 
@jaggedSpire for that matter their entire history
 
The problem is that Trump is not by any means a political moderate. He's a radical, and it isn't very common in history that good judgement comes with radicalism.
 
2:49 AM
@Aaron3468 That i'll agree with.
 
Especially deliberately poorly informed radicalism.
 
For example, I just realized my sister's wedding - less than 10 years ago, was firmly before the smart phone revolution. On account of the fact that I know we would have had video footage otherwise.
 
@Aaron3468 but at the same token, bernie sanders was a radical as well
 
Very much.
By the same token, perhaps.
And /is/. Well, he stopped being a candidate.
 
it's not uncommon for american's to be 'radicals', we were founded by that principle
 
2:50 AM
@johnathon they're a statewide Cali thing, from before cell phones
 
@johnathon And that's a fair point. I think that in order to govern, it's far more important that a leader consider all perspectives calmly. It doesn't matter much what perspective they have, so long as they have the wisdom to enact it effectively.
 
Except, the average American is very much unlike a settler
 
@johnathon Mostly the idea that the EU might start breaking up, and the association of the brexit movement with anti-immigrant sentiments?
 
and where you say isolationist, i say our people's sovereignty of our country is more important than your country's agenda. That's the motivation of brexit, trump, etc
@jaggedSpire anti-immigrant, i keep seeing that word. Refugee isn't immigrant.
 
It really is
 
2:52 AM
It's all about money.
 
@jaggedSpire needing to move because you won't fight for your own country is different than seeking a better life
@sehe it's more than that. The refugees want to kill us as much as the people they are fleeing from
16
 
@johnathon ...needing to move because attempting to fight for your country has resulted in the deaths of everyone in your community isn't not fighting
 
@johnathon WAT
 
@jaggedSpire are you in the military, or know anyone in the military that's served in the middle east?
 
I'll just star that out of respect for blunt honesty
 
2:54 AM
it's giving up, once the toll has risen to a point where you no longer want to throw your loved ones into the bloodshed
@johnathon no
 
Now, if you still wonder how we got that room topic, you might get it.
 
i do sehe
@jaggedSpire If we went to war with a big huge country, tomorrow, and we needed every able bodied person to defend this country because we were invaded, where would I find you?
 
That's a stupid question out of context.
 
@johnathon If we went to war with a big huge country, you wouldn't need anyone because the whole world will be up in smoke and radiation.
 
@jaggedSpire there comes a point where polotical views go out the window, and it's survival, that's the problem, the people that should be figting (men) are fleeing (refugees) and it's stupid.
 
2:56 AM
@johnathon Doing everything I could to help? I'd be happy to serve, but quite frankly I'd at the least of it need boot camp first.
 
@Mysticial lol
 
It's not about whether you go to war. It's solely at what the war is about protecting
 
@jaggedSpire ok, they don't think the same
 
1 hour ago, by sehe
The interesting part of this discussion is what is /not/ being addressed.
I'm glad we came full circle. So much more enlightening now
 
@johnathon and I disagree with lumping them all together into a pile like that
 
2:58 AM
@johnathon That's true, and I really don't mind isolationalism. America even had that political position during the 30s and 40s. I think the issue is that you can't undo decades of change in a week. Bills may be harder to make, but they're also less likely to screw everybody over. (I say it in the sense that poor policy can hurt those it intends to protect)
 
@sehe It takes a certain amount of brainwashing/racism to get to that point.
 
@Mysticial so im racist against my own race? How polite for you to assume so.
 
ITT @johnathon is a muslim refugee
 

« first day (2312 days earlier)      last day (2630 days later) »