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12:02 AM
@Mysticial If I have a CPU with 4 cores and HT, then I turned off HT, how much of the overall ~~performance~~ do I lose? (or asked differently, how much perf is gained by adding a second thread on the core)
 
That's a non-trivial question.
 
That's a loaded question.
 
How is it loaded?
:(
 
user1804599
Superb owls win everywhere.
 
More loaded than the NRA.
 
12:03 AM
T_T
 
More loaded than your mom.
 
user1804599
If they didn't they wouldn't be superb.
 
@Borgleader It depends on what the bottleneck is.
If you have a single-threaded program, and you put a second program on the same core, it will get slower.
If you have a fully threaded program that cache misses a lot, but isn't memory-bound, then HT will help.
If you have a fully threaded program that has long dependency chains and is compute-bound, then HT will help.
 
If you have a program that is carefully tuned for the specific cache sizes and is not expecting anyone else on the same core, then it will hurt.
 
12:06 AM
Assuming its one of the middle 2 cases. Is it known by how much it helps?
 
My Pi program is precisely in those two middle categories. And it helps 10 - 15%+.
 
I've done a few interesting benchmarks with a TCP connection between two threads.
If you want I can show you the results.
But I'm soo tired right now :)
 
@StackedCrooked thx for the article.
@Mysticial Alright thanks, that clears things up.
 
I recently (~8 months ago) did an optimization that reduced the instruction count at the cost of increasing the length of the dependency chains. That slowed it down on single-threaded runs, but it sped it up when running with HT.
 
TLDR; hyper-threading helps as long as the scheduler isn't bullshiting you
 
12:15 AM
@Borgleader Not sure if you'll be able to parse the data, but here you go (removed Chrome tooltip)
The slowest is with 2 cores on different NUMA nodes. It's slower than the single core non-HT case.
Fastest is two different physical cores on same NUMA node.
Two physical cores gets me 35Gbps. Two logical cores gets me 24Gbps.
Of course this is very application dependent.
Just wanted to give an example of how the results could look like in a real app.
 
@StackedCrooked Now if the application was bandwidth-bound to main memory, then it may be beneficial to split them on separate nodes if they don't need to share data too much.
 
Well, it's a TCP connection. So there's a client and server thing. The server sends large payload packets to to the client and the client sends small ack packets back. So this app is all about data transfer between the two parties.
They don't share any other data though.
I.e no shared member variables or anything.
Only the packet data.
 
@Mikhail oh the memory
 
However, my TCP implementation is sneaky and only needs to read the first 64 bytes of each packet (this applies to both client and server).
@Mysticial In this case that gave the worst results (12Gbit/s). The best result was two physical (non-sibling) cores on the same node (35Gbit/s).
Naturally, this is not representative for real TCP where of course you'd send between two different machines on the network.
But, nevertheless, I thought it might give some indication on the effect of HT that @Borgleader wanted to learn about.
@Borgleader Also, the article What Every Programmer Should Know About Memory features some cool benchmarks with HT. (BTW this article is AWESOME. If you read it then many of your questions will be answered. I promise!)
(And it's only about 120 pages long)
:P
@sehe Did you experience a cache miss? :)
 
12:36 AM
false sharing
 
@StackedCrooked I (sometimes) wish I could. It had some capabilities none of their more recent IDEs supports.
 
I know. It was my first IDE. And it was pretty good back then.
It sucked horribly at C++ compliance though.
I.e this didn't work: using std::string;
While this did work: using namespace std;
 
@StackedCrooked That is certainly true.
 
@milleniumbug You're the man. Thanks.
 
12:42 AM
@StackedCrooked To my recollection, neither worked entirely dependably (though either one could work under some circumstances).
 
Really? Wow, so it's even worse than I remembered.
I worked through the book Accelerated C++ using this IDE.
With the help of the comp.lang.c++.moderated I managed to get the first example program from the book working.
That newsgroup was a really big help for me when I first started.
 
@StackedCrooked Well, I am going from memory here, so take it for what it's worth. I still (probably) have a copy of VS 6 around somewhere, but to install it you have to emulate Win XP (or older), so I'm not planning to test it.
 
I remember Alf was an active moderator.
@JerryCoffin Don't bother :) This issue really doesn't need be resolved :)
 
I wish someone would write an article on 'rage quit people & where they are now' :p
 
@StackedCrooked I'll save it on my phone and read it in the train ;)
 
12:50 AM
Good. I expect an 1200-word report in two days.
:)
J/K but do read it please. I think you won't regret.
 
I have a lot of free time on the train :)
(1h30 a day)
 
Cool.
When I first started working I also had to take the train. I read many good books on the train back then. (Including a full read of the massive Code Complete II )
Code Complete is probably the book that influenced the way I write code the most.
Followed by Pragmatic Programmer and Scott's Effective C++ books.
 
I read that, I should probably do so again.
 
Ell
Code Complete is really good
 
Didnt read Pragmatic Programmer though
 
12:58 AM
@Borgleader That one is the easiest to read and digest.
 
@Borgleader The Really Pragmatic Programmer (TL;DR)
 
user1804599
(3 + h)^2 = 9 + 6h + h^2
 
user1804599
Why is this? What is this property called?
 
@sehe The Really Lazy Programmer ;)
 
@rightfold That's just (a+b)² = a²+2ab+b² right. That's simple algebra
 
user1804599
1:07 AM
@sehe Thank you.
 
user1804599
@sehe More generally, (a + b)^n = a^n + nab + b^n?
 
see the link. In short, I don't think that's quite right
 
user1804599
The website is broken. Letters disappear.
 
user1804599
And now MySQL error
 
1:10 AM
@rightfold hihi
@rightfold (a+b)³ is a³ + 3 a² b + 3 a b² + b³
 
user1804599
Why is it asymmetric? Addition is commutative.
 
Just. Do the multiplications, then group de similar terms
@rightfold However, exponentiation isn't
It's also only /looking/ asymmetric because of the simplification
 
@rightfold I was just gonna link you that onlinemschool.com/math/library/multiplication_formulas/sum2
 
user1804599
I get it now thanks
 
user1804599
1:13 AM
aaa + aab + aba + abb + bbb + baa + bab + bba + bbb
 
Cheers. I don't know the specifics anymore but a lot of this leads to Pascal's triangle. Polynomials are where my intuition stopped working for maths
@rightfold indeed
It's just cartesian products all the way down
 
@StackedCrooked lol, I'm looking at the ToC: "1. The Cat Ate My Source Code 2. Software Entropy 3. Stone Soup and Boiled Frogs..." I see why you said it was easy to digest now
:P
 
@Telkitty One day you'll have to tell us where you lurk to get your daily fix of fat fetish news
 
user1804599
Ok
 
1:17 AM
@sehe they are everywhere, only depends whether you have an eye for them
 
user1804599
lim(h -> 0) 2x + h^2 = 2x
 
@Telkitty At least that's an honest explanation.
You're the Abiks of obesitas
Abiks is the Wilx of Russian propaganda
Wilx is the Telkitty of feminazis
@rightfold obviously (assuming x independent of h)
 
Breaking: Yale will change the name of Calhoun College, honoring white supremacist. It will be renamed for computer… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/830491601910763521
 
keep on drinking @sehe
 
@Telkitty keep on eating brownies
 
1:24 AM
I keep myself away from unhealthy food
 
@StackedCrooked I suppose it reflects my age, but I saw it as a whole lot of obvious and a little bit of nonsense, but very little real revelation.
 
@JerryCoffin How much experience did you have when you read it?
 
@Borgleader I don't think I ever looked at the first edition. The second edition came out in...2004, apparently. By then I'd been writing code for over 20 years.
 
That probably explains it imo
 
1:29 AM
@Borgleader Probably part of it anyway. I'm sure some other people the same age were less arrogant and opinionated than I was though.
 
@jaggedSpire That looks delicious
 
I know chocolate mug cakes are A+
 
@JerryCoffin then, there are people half of your age & are twice as arrogant & opinionated ... speaking of which, have not seen cat++ for ages
 
this seems like a wonderful extension of that idea
 
@JerryCoffin I learned nothing about programming from reading books. I learned a lot about technical details from books, and read the other books for fun and confirmation of my bias :)
 
1:33 AM
so yellowstone national park, are there any significant advantage living inside the park than outside but near the park?
 
I must admit I'm probably somewhat influenced by reading a recursive descent parser in a Pascal book (it was titled "Van Basic Naar Pascal" and I bought it in the dump section - de Slegte in case anyone still remembers)
 
other than driving distance that is ...
 
yeah right, less chance of that than my property get rezoned & I become a multi-millionaire
or I die from a car accident in the next 2 months
 
and really when that thing goes it won't matter if you're a few miles outside the caldera
 
1:39 AM
consider the amount of people living in the silicon valley and the amount of danger they face, I am actually okay with taking a very small risk
as a ex-risk management expert, I know the risk is closely associated and positive correlated with the amount of time you are exposed to that risk
 
no shit
 
I think I will have tortellini soup for the next several days.
 
permission granted
 
Thank you.
 
@Telkitty does anyone actually live in the park?
 
1:46 AM
there are many hotels inside the park
 
and what kind of advantages do you mean? like access to plumbing and electricity?
 
access to bears & bisons
look at them, not eating them of course
 
yes there are...but most people just visit the hotels. They don't really live there.
 
but only with a camera..
yea
 
by visit, I mean stay for a night or two or maybe a week.
maybe some workers stay longer, but not year round, I don't think.
 
1:48 AM
usually I would say 'staying at hotels & visit the bathroom'
not 'visit the hotels and staying in the bathroom' >_<
 
Please remain aware that bison can weigh up to 2,000 lbs (900 kilograms), can be aggressive, can run up to 30 miles per hour, and gored five people in Yellowstone in 2015.
I realize living in Australia has probably made you very aware that wildlife can and will do murderiffic things to incautious humans, but I would be sad if you died.
 
not really, those creatures tend to run away from people
most of the creatures here are shy, they don't charge towards people
 
sure, but really though don't make them angry
 
@Telkitty The risk is still > 0
@Telkitty who are you to judge where I stay? =p
 
The rule is not to corner dangerous animals
 
2:00 AM
s/dangerous//
 
if you give them some spaces, they tend to leave you alone too - unless 1) they treat you as food or 2) they have babies to defend
of course there are exceptions where they know that you have food & they are trying to steal it
my food has been stolen multiple times by cute mammals/birds
 
Remember when you first saw "Possible duplicate..." comments and so you started typing them manually?
 
I still type them manually. I can't afford having a robot to do that
 
23
Q: I plugged in a molex cable the wrong way and the power supply exploded. Did it kill my hard drive?

jy196I bought a cheap kit allowing me to use a 3.5 SATA hard drive with a laptop, by plugging it in with USB. It still requires external power supply so I used an adapter that came with this kit but I plugged it the wrong way - the molex cable has four wires - one yellow, two black and one red and the...

 
LOL
 
2:06 AM
only one way to find out
 
@sehe I just do a close vote
 
#negative
@Telkitty 3) they have a cult of eating babies
 
> Ravens have learned to unzip and unsnap packs, so keep these crafty birds away from your food supply.
brilliant
 
@Telkitty of course. You just told us you stay away from unhealthy foods
 
bison jerky ... yum ... :p
 
2:10 AM
@milleniumbug that's gotta hurt
 
@milleniumbug how did that even happen?
 
@Code-Apprentice it says in the post about non standardized connnectors
@Code-Apprentice that's where my attention died anyways
 
I read the question and some of the comments and answers.
 
2:24 AM
@Code-Apprentice Yes, there are homes there. zillow.com/yellowstone-national-park-wy
 
@Code-Apprentice tiny electrons going in and doing their thing
 
@JerryCoffin none of those are inside the park
I am quite familiar with West Yellowstone which is just outside the western entrance. Not familiar with Gardenier or Cooke City, but I think they are similar.
 
2:56 AM
@Code-Apprentice I'll take your word for it.
 
3:27 AM
Spent last 2 hours trying to figure out bug. Hacked together a reproducible example. Nothing made sense, random kernel launch failure. After a clean build the bug went away. Should I clean my bathroom or do C++?
 
How about cleaning the bathroom with C++?
 
@Mikhail Have you considered botany?
 
@Borgleader marijuana?
 
reminds me, I need to relocate some of my stuff into garage from my bathroom
my hair claws to be exact, old ones ... since I bought 10 new ones
but it will take 2-3 weeks for them to arrive
 
3:47 AM
hot new pic @Telkitty
 
@набиячлэвэли I know, right ... sexy beast
 
4:20 AM
@Telkitty isn't it an Australian billionaire from the...oil industry?
 
mining, mining industry
 
 
2 hours later…
6:07 AM
I bought perfboard and made one of my old projects a bit more permanent. It didn't work and after debugging, I discovered I hadn't connected one of the capacitors.
It still doesn't make music like it should, but it works fine when I examine it with the voltmeter. I probably need to buy a new buzzer ^^;
 
6:32 AM
night
 
 
3 hours later…
10:01 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
11:07 AM
 
Like poetry:
1
Q: Not getting the desired output using turbo c++ compiler (old version)

St. Joseph's Convent SchoolProblem: A man has written a statement as "My name is Alok Kumar Gupta and my age is 45 years." Later on, he realized that he had declared his name as Alok instead of Ashok and the age 45 instead of 35. Write a program to correct his age in the Predicted statement display the output as "My name ...

 
lol, I just saw that
"turbo c++ compiler (old version)" No need to repeat yourself. — Code-Apprentice 52 secs ago
 
@TonyTheLion works wonders against a cold butt
 
Xeo
11:34 AM
@sehe Also a nice cushion when you sit down
 
Ven
11:52 AM
Hi
 
user1804599
@Ven Hi
 
user1804599
12:17 PM
@sehe I think (x + h)^3 = x^3 + h^3 + 3xh^2 + 3hx^2
 
user1804599
xxx + hhh + xxh + xhx + hxx + xxh + xhx + hxx
 
user1804599
It's eight terms, which is good because 2^3 = 8.
 
EMERGENCY I'll be in Berlin next week doing a course for work... I'm tonight, tuesday night and maybe a little bit of Friday afternoon! Email me for fun and stuff
 
12:32 PM
Staying down in Estrel hotel
 
12:46 PM
So, one of the tenants moved out and dumped whole lots of stuff on the street. Neighbours complained & I had to rush there to move everything back to the front yard and cover those stuff
need to arrange a removalist tomorrow
 
@Xeo A nice cushion indeed, if highly staining
 
maybe he uses a brown bear?
 
1:02 PM
@Borgleader I want to hug that kitty :3
 
@JohanLarsson I had blood in mind but sure
 
use a fox then
 
1:39 PM
It's already been a week and the new mailing still isn't here ç___ç
 
/cc @StackedCrooked
 
1:59 PM
@Ven I am glad I am Basically Okay™.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:04 PM
I like to drink Earl Grey when it's cold outside.
 
3:35 PM
@Morwenn I like to drink you with my eyes, regardless of weather, handsome.
 
@wilx I'm not sure what to answer o_o
 
@Morwenn Nothing. I am just pulling your leg. I am that bad but still Basically Okay™. :)
 
xD
 
I like Earl Gray too. It is the first drink I do first thing I come to work every day.
 
I mostly drink coffee at work.
When it comes to tea, it's often orange-cinnamon though.
 
3:44 PM
@Borgleader You mean Kefka?
 
4:05 PM
Who?
This guy?
 
Final boss of FF6.
 
Ah, never played that.
 
He gains God-like power roughly two thirds in the game and he spends the rest of it destroying the world with an ion cannon.
Before that he's just a clown with magic powers. After that he's God. A crazy God.
 
if you had God-like power why bother with the ion cannon
 
So yeah, he's the Joker. With magic.
@Puppy It's not really an ion cannon. He calls it the "light of judgment", and it's magic based, but it functions like a fucking laser beam from the sky.
@Puppy Also, he might be a God, he is not infaillible. This is Final Fantasy we're talking about, killing Gods is business as usual.
 
Xeo
4:19 PM
I should play FF6 sometime
I heard good things about it
 
It's great, although as far as JRPGs go I largely prefer Chrono Trigger.
 
I know Mark Cuban well. He backed me big-time but I wasn't interested in taking all of his calls.He's not smart enough to run for president!
lool..
 
user1804599
4:51 PM
XD
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Laughing at Flemish architecture on NPO 2.
 
user1804599
 
5:38 PM
@StoryTeller: ISO C++ has had the standard library since the beginning. When we say "C++" now that's what we mean. — Lightness Races in Orbit 21 mins ago
LRiO strikes back
 
Guys, the pre-Kona mailing is available.
 
6:23 PM
Actually the proposal about operator<=> is pretty interesting.
 
@Morwenn operator<=> ?!?
 
@Borgleader Three-way comparison operator, returning either of strong_ordering, partial_ordering, weak_orderinng, strong_equality or weak_equality.
Once it has been implemented, the compiler can provide sane defaults for any comparison/equality operator.
 
Oh its kind of like that uh, trick where you can derive all comparison operators from just 2 (where these two are conveniently chosen? i forget the name of what that is but i think boost has some support for it?)
 
It's just that default comparison operators have been controversial for a few years now, and they are still trying to get new solutions :p
 
Xeo
I kinda like the proposal
If existing interfaces don't allow for proper resolution, just add something new that allows you to express what you want
 
6:31 PM
I surprisingly looks consistent, complete, and like a good solution to solve several comparison problems at once.
And to avoid problems, the default-generated operator<=> part is optional x)
 
6:41 PM
Oooooh, it even includes a depreciation of std::rel_ops :D
 
Xeo
looks nice
I'm sure the committee will find a way to delay it for 5 years, though
 
> Some processors support three-way comparison instructions for machine types, and code generation can naturally take advantage of this capability where present.
I wasn't sure about that one. Good news too.
@Xeo Unfortunately...
 
7:04 PM
something something too many chefs in the kitchens
 
Berlin bitches!
 
so... Berlin won the vote?
 
What? No! I'm just there now
Here for the week doing delightful course for work
 
right
 
Xeo
7:26 PM
> The constexpr Operator
Just allow overloading on constexpr... :>
Also, some people really want to blow up what's possible in a constexpr context, it seems...
> Let’s design with modern C++ in mind
> typedef reflexpr(foo) meta_foo;
boo typedef!
 
@Xeo impressive, although I'm surprised it didn't include striding
 
Xeo
Yeah, since it's leveraging the syntax from Python, I would've expected that as well
 
@rightfold oh well I just copied and pasted from Wolfram Alpha (with unicode replacements for the exponents)
 
7:42 PM
what does the jealous/spite arrow mean?
 
Xeo
They spite us because we don't help them, but are also jealous because they'd like not to care
or something
 
ok, makes some sense
sehe is #1 right?
 
@JohanLarsson He's a 1/4, I think. He might be a 4 about the site as a whole, but he still writes solid answers like a 1.
 
8:02 PM
yea
 
 
1 hour later…
9:17 PM
asdf
 
ghjk
 
user1804599
display :: Room -> String
display (Blank w h) = top <> mid <> bot
  where top = bot <> "\n"
        bot = "+" <> repeat "-" w <> "+"
        mid = repeat ("|" <> repeat "." w <> "|\n") h
 
user1804599
\o/ \o/ \o/
 
9:34 PM
@Borgleader l;'<Enter>
 
@usedgov I think you mean "Post uppdatd- hour derpest apollogies four the eurlier tyypo "
They're doing it on purpose. I'm sure
@JohanLarsson full on #1, but slowly graduating to a #4. It will take some more years, no doubt
@JohanLarsson Wasn't that described in the answer this diagram was made for? Caretakers are envious/spiteful of the ones that are able sit back and observe things going off-the-rails/well unaffected
 
it probably was
 
I mean, did you find that? I can caretake of a link if time permits
 
I read it, rightfold linked it
 
Ah. Just found it
Begging for a diagram :) (Also love the self-referential entrance: "I hate to"... :)) — sehe Apr 24 '14 at 22:33
 
9:41 PM
> 1 hates 4 because 4 isn't helping the situation.
 
By the way, samsung did not stop making tablets, AFAIK
 
oh, you saw it :)
I deleted it after a couple of seconds
I found tablets jut not on the place I was buying from
had one in my cart but it was gone and I could not find a samsung tablet on the site, only phones
 
user1804599
I'm so sad.
 
why?
is it the hipster stuff?
 
Probably unrelated. My guess: he found a weakness in PureScript
 
9:49 PM
> is it the hipster stuff?
 
Or Postgres. Or his PostgreSQL bindings for PureScript
Ah
 
user1804599
Nope, those three things are all amazing.
 
user1804599
Yay my PureScript compiler PR got merged.
 
user1804599
+1 −1 diffstat makes for significant decrease in generated code size.
 
user1804599
9:53 PM
Using the law of excluded middle.
 
so you are happy again
 
user1804599
No.,
 
user1804599
10:15 PM
I'm so happy.
 
user1804599
I don't know. I have massive mood swings these days.
 
user1804599
From suicidal to happy and back and forth
 
sounds like every wednesday
 
nwp
10:40 PM
@rightfold I hate being borderline, it's awesome!
 
10:54 PM
I don't see borderline anywhere at all. Complete misdiagnosis there. Just regular old-fashioned mood swings, bipolar at best
@rightfold But uhoh. See a doctor asap. You're neglecting interpunction. Seek treatment.
@sehe You forgot to call mmap.close() in your examples. — Francisco Aguilera 34 mins ago
@FranciscoAguilera It's on the last line. Long live RAII — sehe 9 secs ago
5
I think a comment upvote on the main site is worth more than 3 stars in the lounge.
 
@sehe then you'll get both from me :3
 
Weehoo! A 5 second high is very much enjoyed by me
 
Why did I imagine you saying Long live RAII like Scar did in The Lion King?
that doesn't make any sense
even with a polar bear
 
Make love, not sense.
16
 
@jaggedSpire hello!
 
11:04 PM
Damn. I'm on a roll.
 
@TonyTheLion Hey <3
 
@sehe trump?
 
> Long live RAII
is long right there? scope?
 
Ok. "Unsigned short live RAII"
 
11:06 PM
:D
 
I really am on a roll. I'll quite while I'm ahead :) Sleep well comrades
 
No
 
99.99% chance it's not
 
The fact that the name is different could tip one off
 
user1804599
11:07 PM
I've been a NEET for a week.
 
Ok. A friend from different circles just sent that to me.
 
@rightfold I was a NEET for years
 
user1804599
I want to apply differentiation.
 
although I have no idea if that acronym means the same to you as it did here
 
user1804599
I can differentiate polynomials now.
 
user1804599
11:08 PM
But I can't apply it.
 
@sehe Oh, right. Nvm
 
@wilx You jerk in multiple circles?
 
@sehe Lol.
 
Much respect. Where do you find the time.
 
@rightfold do you know that name of the third derivative of position wrt time?
 
11:13 PM
why do you assume it has a name?
maybe it's just "the rate of change of acceleration"?
 
I wrote a type for it
In physics, jerk, also known as jolt, surge, or lurch, is the rate of change of acceleration; that is, the derivative of acceleration with respect to time, and as such the second derivative of velocity, or the third derivative of position. Jerk is a vector, and there is no generally used term to describe its scalar magnitude (more precisely, its norm, e.g. "speed" as the norm of the velocity vector). According to the result of dimensional analysis of jerk, [length/time3], the SI units are m/s3 (or m·s−3); jerk can also be expressed in standard gravity per second (g/s). == Expressions == Jerk can...
useless trivia
 
nwp
@JohanLarsson hey, putting slow motion jerking animations in the lounge is not allowed! We will be distracted from our important sunday work!
 
@nwp Monday already.
 
@Puppy rate of change of the rate of change of the rate of change of position over time.
 
11:29 PM
I'm messing around with hardware again and I finally got around to finishing the code and circuit for one of my projects. The real one needs to use a more accurate reading mode that tests two inputs and will need 3 threads, but is otherwise the same. Here's an interactive demo
 
11:55 PM
I vouch for memleax as a very useful tool to monitor for any obvious leaks. The output summaries are surprisingly effective. Almost like I'd write them if I had the processing power to do it manually. Thanks for this — sehe 1 min ago
@JohanLarsson Nice
 

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