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5:02 PM
@EtiennedeMartel the counting of slaves btw, was a precursor to the civil war here. The reality is that the soutern states had little power in washington because of how few voters there was. At the time to vote you had to be 1) white, 2) own land. So few people in the south matched that criteria that the south had very few electoral votes. The counting of slaves in the census was their solution to alleviate the poor representation the south had in the political system.
@EtiennedeMartel the electoral college it's self, had nothing to do with slavery.
 
This in turn led to the South having more representation, i.e. your vote mattered more in the South.
 
well that was the idea
but it didn't work
 
@EtiennedeMartel Southern voters did get more say than most others, but not because of the electoral college. Rather, it was because slaves (who were obviously deprived of all rights, including voting) were still counted in the census as four tenths of a person when computing representation in the house of representatives.
 
@EtiennedeMartel The USA has never been a democracy. The people that want one aren't people i'd credit with an abundance of common sense, particularly if they've ever studied the history of the Greek government.
@JerryCoffin Lincoln wasn't elected by the south lol
 
5:09 PM
So technically, the electoral college is still counting its slave? And some slave voice's weren't heard and they're not happy about it.
 
@johnathon Yeah, I guess someone who wants their vote to fucking count can't possibly have common sense.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Have you ever studied a pure democracy?
 
@EtiennedeMartel I'd want my vote to simply count.
 
@EtiennedeMartel and I want my vote to count too. I want yours too count too (if your a citizen of the USA), but your Canadian aren't you? so what's the deal, why the emotional burst about it?
 
@johnathon Indirectly, he sort of was. The Democratic party had split into a northern part and a southern part. The northern group wanted new states to be allowed to decide whether to allow slavery or not. The southern group wanted all new states to allow slavery, regardless of what the voters wanted. The Republican party was much more unified, being against the spread of slavery at all. So, a fair number of southern voters actually did actually vote for Lincoln.
 
5:17 PM
@JerryCoffin If you go back in the books, most of those were from TN, we were the last to leave the union , and first to rejoin it.
 
Even within the Republican party, Lincoln wasn't originally the front-runner though. There were two or three others who were better known--but each had alienated some faction within their own party. Lincoln was basically everybody's second choice--nobody liked him the most, but fewer were vehemently against him.
 
@johnathon I'm allowed to care about the plights of others, right?
 
@JerryCoffin the latter though only because a particular person from TN was friends with grant.
 
Also, Canada has a broken voting system that means a party can get 100% of power with 30% of the vote.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I think it's still more accurate than having 80% of the vote of 30% of the population and counting it as 80%
forcing a majority is actually just playing with numbers
Trump might have the majority of votes right now, but it's not because people wanted him or Hillary to get elected
 
5:22 PM
@JerryCoffin yes. He was the only president to suspend the constitution.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix I've mentioned this before, but I've been wondering if a tournament-style election process would work. You start with a pool of candidates. And you randomly pair them up in a single-elimination match where people vote on which of each pair they prefer over the other.
This would eliminate extremists from getting to the final round, but it also means O(log(N)) rounds of voting.
 
@Mysticial I'd rather have elections if something bad happen trigger a new election with different candidate
 
@Mysticial And then they sword fight.
 
@Mysticial you forget the entertainment factor with extremists
 
@Mysticial it's pretty much how French election works, though it doesn't prevent extremists from getting to the final round
 
5:24 PM
"I'm going to build a wall and make mexico pay for it" -- me with popcorn -- "you go right on and do that, i wanna watch"
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix California had that, the recall election. They booted out the existing governor and replaced him with Arnold Schwarzenegger.
 
In Java, if I request a website in HTML form, but it contains scripts that provide the final HTML, how can I get the latter
 
what are those "extremists"? is there any example of such?
 
I feel like it's nontrivial and that frightens me
 
@Columbo you should ask a question on SO with actual code.. It's probably easier than you think
 
5:26 PM
@Columbo At least offhand, it sounds like you may want to Google for "Java server pages".
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Is it because of turnout? Only the extremists vote in the early rounds?
Kinda like how nobody votes in the US primaries, and those are well... rigged. On both sides.
 
@Mysticial More rigged for the Democrats, but still pretty far from ideal for the Rs.
 
@Mysticial people might be voting for extremists themselves... People are scared of immigration and national identity... They might as well vote for nationalistic parties that are to me extremists.
 
I think it's an issue that primaries are so spread out. Candidates that might be popular down the line get weeded out in Iowa. Doesn't make any sense to me. Why should one state with a tiny fraction of the party electors be the gatekeeper for Presidential candidates?
 
@Mysticial I tend to think this is exactly the opposite of the right direction to go. My preference would be to have one ballot with all the candidates, and a single transferrable vote system to select between them.
 
5:29 PM
@JerryCoffin Same here.
 
@JerryCoffin More specifically, I want to get the list of product links in e.g. google.co.uk/#tbm=shop&q=samsung, but if you inspect the HTML page source, it's dynamically loaded, obviously
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix There's a really funny John Oliver video on the current French president.
 
I think the Canadian system is nice. If you get elected with 30% of vote, you can't say that you're the most popular candidate ever!
@EtiennedeMartel remember that a minority government doesn'T have full power vs a majority government.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix You can get a majority government with 30% of the vote.
 
And that Canadian elections can be triggered at any moment
 
5:31 PM
talking about John Oliver...there should be a new episode
 
as far as I remember a majority government is when you get elected with more than 50%
 
@Columbo Yup. At least at one time, Google had an API for getting lists like that. I know at least some similar APIs have been removed; I don't know if one for that particular list exists right now (or ever did).
 
minority government is when you get elected with less
 
Trudeau got a majority government with 39% of the vote.
 
@JerryCoffin I think it's gone, I looked for one already.
 
5:33 PM
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix You get a majority government if you have more MPs than all the other parties combined (which means even if they all get together they can't overturn every single one of your proposals).
 
@Columbo Would you be willing to consider a different provider? If memory serves, Wal Mart has pretty decent APIs.
 
@EtiennedeMartel yeah but how do you get more mps if you have less than 50% votes?
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix The problem is in how the MPs are elected: each riding has its own election, and it's first-past-the-post.
 
@JerryCoffin Oh, no. I need Google Reviews. How do you know that, anyway
 
ah I see
Then I think it's more how MPs are elected that worries you than how the primer minister get elected
 
5:35 PM
@Columbo A while back my wife wanted something to help her find things going on sale.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Exactly.
 
@JerryCoffin Being married to a programmer comes handy at times, I guess
 
MPs are elected that way to preserve regional representation, but in practice people vote for a party, not a MP.
And MPs can't really go against their party line.
So what's the fucking point of regional representation if the people who sit in the House are drones who follow their leader?
Just let me vote for the leader directly.
 
@EtiennedeMartel well technically people should vote laws not for which party they work for
it's ridiculous to vote for a law simply because your party made it
I think the party system is ridiculous when party member become "a clan" like organization. Vote for your party, vote against any law not from your party.
 
Either we vote directly for the parties themselves, or we ditch the parties and vote for the people. But right now we have this weird broken hybrid that favors old and large parties and kill any chance of representation by small parties.
 
5:39 PM
@JerryCoffin Yeah, it is not, I guess. But I was like flat tire virgin and now I am not! :D
 
@Mikhail This looks good compiling code on Zen: hothardware.com/news/…
The "extended SSE" benchmark makes no sense though.
 
6:13 PM
posted on February 13, 2017 by Herb Sutter

I don’t get to Europe very often apart from ISO C++ standards meetings, but this spring I’ve been able to accept invitations for two English-language European events in the last week of April. If you’re interested in attending, please check out the links, and I look forward to meeting and re-meeting many of you there. Tue-Thu […]

 
7:01 PM
Why do I almost always look high when I try to take a selfie?
 
Xeo
are you almost always high, perchance?
 
Nope.
I don't take selfies when I'm actually high.
Well, I mostly don't take selfies at all.
 
Angle, expression, and eye contact. Find a nice bright area where light is coming from in front of you (the top is usually bad lighting). Smile and squint slightly, and shoot from maybe 10-20 degrees to one side of your face, and probably about 10 degrees above eye level, looking down.
The high look usually comes from a below-eye-level, too much squint, and weird lighting
 
@Aaron3468 Selfie-pro?
 
@Aaron3468 I thought that I had mastered the bad lightning D:
 
7:08 PM
@Mysticial The result there looks like they were testing something that was directly supported by only the two processors, and being emulated on the rest. Not at all sure what that would be though.
 
@wilx I take a lot of bad selfies, so my average selfie improved a lot.
 
@JerryCoffin Which doesn't make any sense because Kaby Lake doesn't have much which Haswell and Broadwell don't have.
Well, unless the code had a bunch SSE/AVX transitions. That would explain it.
Since Intel got rid of that in Skylake.
 
@Morwenn The lighting is even and bright enough :D I think your shot is too close to profile view; shoot closer to straight on so it looks really friendly/welcoming. When you shoot way off to the side of your face it looks defensive. Other than that, try to find a nice environment for the background.
 
Sorry, I don't have decent lightning + good background at home.
 
park.
 
7:15 PM
@JerryCoffin Actually, no I take that back. The benchmark sucks even for AMD Piledriver - which also doesn't have SSE/AVX transition penalties.
 
That's a better selfie than the average person! The ordinary person takes blurry selfies with really bad cropping/framing. Your composition is really close to ideal, and it's mostly posing that's left to practice
 
I guess I'm not enough of a poser then :p
 
@Mysticial In any case, I think it's pretty easy to agree that its results have little relationship with most real-world use.
 
7:20 PM
@JerryCoffin The single-threaded integer one is probably the most relevant for normal every day. And that's the only that looks pretty good.
The ones that look shit are ones that sound like they use AVX.
 
@Mysticial ...and its lacking the wider AVX units isn't exactly breaking news at this point.
 
And I've love to get a new build box. 32GB is no longer enough build my Pi program on Linux/GCC without disabling or staggering some of the binaries.
 
@Mysticial I hate those staggering binaries. Obviously spending too much time at the binary bars.
 
@Mysticial i do cross platfrom from win 10 to unbutnu on arm
@Mysticial bb black though
 
@JerryCoffin I should clarify - staggering the start-times of each binary. Right now, my script simply compiles everything at once. Each binary peaks at around 3 - 4GB under GCC. And there's 13 binaries.
 
7:24 PM
@Mysticial Yes, I figured that--but by now you have to have realized that I have zero resistance to the opportunity for even the weakest of puns.
 
@JerryCoffin shhhh.... I know :)
 
@Mysticial Out of curiosity, have you used icc under linux?
 
@JerryCoffin Yes, but only at work.
Getting ICC for Linux at home as been on my to-do list for a long time. But I just haven't gotten around to doing it.
I imagine that will probably narrow the performance gap that I'm seeing between Windows and Linux.
But the biggest part of that gap is still the scheduler. I don't know what Windows does right or what Linux does wrong, but there's something scheduler related that's keeping Linux from achieving the 97% CPU utilization that I get on Windows.
For the same code using std::thread, std::mutex, std::condition_variable, etc...
 
7:41 PM
@Code-Apprentice Downloading it now
 
7:51 PM
@Mysticial Hard to blame you for that, given the price (especially for the higher-end editions).
 
8:19 PM
@JerryCoffin It used to be free for non-commercial use on Linux. I guess that isn't the case anymore.
 
Oh boi
It's been ages since I last saw puppy
@Puppy How are you doing?
 
alive
it's cold
 
That's good, hope you get at least another 40 minutes of aliveness
 
me too
 
user1804599
user image
3
 
user1804599
8:22 PM
lol
 
@JerryCoffin Come to think of it, there's a lot I can theoretically do since my school lets us keep our .edu email address(es) for eternity. But abusing that privilege seems a bit shady at best.
 
your face seems shady at best
 
ow you hurt my feelings
 
Salty Puppy
 
@Mysticial forever student access to products
 
8:33 PM
@Mysticial What if the error is in the measurement of utilization and not the scheduler?
 
@johnathon It's not even funny. Many stores (such as Newegg) only check the ".edu" part. They can't tell if a .edu address is a student, faculty, or alumni address. And mine's an alumni address. Since I use my alumni email for pretty much everything, Newegg lets me look at their student store. But it's stupid because there's nothing there that interests me. They don't sell processors or motherboards in there, only consumer products.
 
@Mysticial Or...have you tried low latency Linux kernel or vice versa?
 
@Mysticial lol
 
@wilx I can't rule that out. But the performance gap is almost proportional the difference in the CPU utilization between Windows/Linux.
@wilx No. I haven't cared enough to go that in depth.
 
@Mysticial Well, on Ubuntu it is easy, you just install different kernel package.
 
8:36 PM
@Mysticial the Microsoft store probably has better deals for you than Newegg though, Newegg's best hit is in the business space though IMHO, i could be wrong though I've never worked there, only been a customer.
@Mysticial And on another note, windows implimented threads using fibers, msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/…
 
I still have to decide what laptop to buy
 
user1804599
MacBook Pro
 
@rightfold Not the new one though, right?
 
@johnathon Oh and I forgot to mention that the student discounts are also kinda stupid too. Like $10 off $150 external HD. Granted, I haven't really looked at the software side - which I imagine there would be more room.
 
user1804599
8:44 PM
@Shoe Why not?
 
user1804599
inb5 lol 15" laptop
 
@Mysticial any discount isn't something to scoff at. Perhaps get a job at the retailer + your student discount and it might add up to some real savings, but 10 bucks is a hamburger meal in my view
 
@rightfold If I wanted MacBook that had the specs for what I needed, I'd have to mortgage it.
 
@rightfold Are you talking about the 13'' laptop without touchbar (or whatever he new bar in place of the fn keys is called)?
 
LOL
 
8:45 PM
Whereas for a normal laptop, it's only 2-3k-ish.
 
user1804599
@Shoe of course
 
user1804599
lol laptops that are huge
 
user1804599
13" is the only good size for a laptop
 
The specs look awful
 
@rightfold if you wrote code on a laptop you might reconsider the size, the larger the screen the better IMHO when it comes to writing anything, code , short stories, poetry , etc
 
8:46 PM
They are basically what I have at the moment with a 2010 macbook pro
> 2.0GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
 
@johnathon I have trouble handling lines longer than 100-ish characters anyway. So my use-case for a wide monitor/screen is to have two windows side-by-side.
 
@Mysticial that's mine too ;)
 
I've got a 2,4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
 
Or in my case at home with 1440p - 3 windows semi-overlapping.
And two on my vertical 1440p.
 
nods
 
8:52 PM
@johnathon The problem is that I don't buy external HDs anymore. And when I do, they're cheaper at Costco. Unless that student store starts selling high-end DDR4, Core i7s, OC'able motherboards, or internal hard drives, I'm not really that interested.
 
@Mysticial check out the MS store.
 
9:06 PM
hmm
I bought the Humble Freedom Bundle which is like 25 fuckin games
 
@johnathon I wonder if I can get Windows Server 2016 for free with a student email address. AHAHAHAHA
 
only unpleasantry is that you have to manually enter the Steam key for each one to claim
 
@johnathon On a 35x9 screen.
 
@Mysticial LOL
 
@Puppy what if you feel like playing something that is not intercourse?
 
9:08 PM
@johnathon I have that installed on my quad Opteron box at home. Interestingly enough, it's quite usable even without activation.
 
it also came with Stardew Valley which I have heard is rather good
 
@Mysticial Yes you can. For a 120 day full version at least.
 
@Mysticial we used 2008 at my last job (i know , old) but it was all virtual servers, i'd be interested in seeing 2016 in action myself.
 
It's just Windows 10 with all the server stuff added. Nothing special about. The only reason I need it because normal Windows don't do quad-sockets.
 
the first 120 days is how they get you hooked
 
9:10 PM
@LucDanton Nah, we only need about 60 days to show how fucked it is.
 
@Mysticial ah. you running 4 amd sockets? What mb?
 
@johnathon I don't remember off the top of my head. It's 4 x quad-core Barcelona generation Opterons @ 2.3 GHz. The mobo is a large Tyan board. It's something I inherited from a WCG user on an overclocker forum after he didn't want it anymore (presumably because of power consumption).
The point of the box wasn't for the compute power. It was for the NUMA programming.
By the time, I got it, it had already long out-lived its usefullness as a computing machine.
 
@Mysticial nice, i miss my opty workstation. I'm runing a 4790k at home which is fine for my home use, but i do miss the opty's performance with gcc
 
My Sandy 2600K was better than that box in terms of compute power. No overclocking needed.
 
yea, but how many cores is it supporting?
that and harddrive speed = where gcc's compile time really lies
 
9:15 PM
16. 4 x 4-core Opteron.
 
Two. Two is way more than enough.
 
user1804599
WTF KAHN ACADEMY
 
I don't really compile on that machine. It's freaking slow anyways. I compile elsewhere, and copy the binaries to it to run.
 
yea, that thing could chew through Qt's open source build in probably an hour an half
it'd be interesting to find out if it really was that super slow
more to the point as to why it would be freaking slow
 
@johnathon Each binary needs more than 4 GB for GCC to compile. That box only has 8 GB of ram. So I'm forced to run them one at a time. And a 2.3 GHz Barcelona AMD is not going to compare to a 4 GHz Haswell.
 
9:18 PM
OT: Are we going to have this room title the next four years? (O = ON, for any value of N)
 
hmm
I decided to name my farm Woofland
 
@Mysticial perhaps, how many cores does your haswell have? I'm not saying intel isn't faster, by all means it is, i noticed that myself , but for builds with a fast hard drive and all those cores I'd like to see the difference
 
@johnathon 4 with HT. Compiling a single binary (which isn't parallelizable) is at least 3x faster on the Haswell box than the Opteron.
If I had to compile all the binaries on the Opteron box (sequentially because of the lack of memory), it would probably take around 2 hours.
 
well compiling the individual cpp files is, it's the linking that has to be done in a single thread
and i was really referencing Qt although i have no clue anymore how much ram gcc consumes while compiling it
 
@johnathon It's a single module compile. The multi-module compile is only setup for Windows - and only under Visual Studio. All other builds are done as a single module. The parallelism is achieved by building the 13 binaries simultaneously.
IOW, there are no makefiles.
 
9:23 PM
@Mysticial My thought was 16 cpp files at once, until the lib is complete, then link the obj files together to get the so or dll
@Mysticial Qt's structured like that
 
@m.. well, I've only posted savage responses on the mainsite in the last 24h, I feel stackoverflow.com/a/42213515/85371
 
@Mysticial but you could probably get away with two threads / core on the opty and get 32 cpp files compiling at once on it.
@Mysticial just my build server dreams LOL
 
The build system can't do that. Because there is no build system. Yes there are about 500-ish .cpp files. But they are only setup to compile independently under Visual Studio. Every where else (including Linux), all the .cpp files get included into one file (logically all 400k LOCs) and throw into a single GCC command.
For now, I have no intention of changing that since my hardware is powerful enough to handle it.
 
@Mysticial for your setup yes, but Qt dosn't do that last i checked
 
My Opteron box has better things to do than compiling code - which I have better machines for. And will likely be adding a new one (Zen 8-core) next month.
 
9:27 PM
how often do you upgrade cpu on average?
 
That Opteron box is one of two old servers which I try to use as little as possible. They are so old that if something goes down, they cannot be fixed anymore. And because of their age and (unusual) specs, they are irreplaceable from a development standpoint.
@JohanLarsson My last (new) build was December 2014. I haven't gotten any new machines since then, but I've rebuilt a number of existing ones with new configurations and new upgrades.
Not counting a new laptop that I picked up just over a year ago.
 
laptops are just a nescesary evil
 
Ell
yeah
laptops are full of compromise :(
 
10:02 PM
@Ell Like life.
 
Laplife
 
felt close to a star for some reason
 
@Ell They are compromises
 
I only own a laptop.
 
@Morwenn Might I extend my condolences to help you through this stress and pain?
 
10:14 PM
@JerryCoffin Not really. I don't need much speed and I don't play games, so it's the perfect tool for me.
 
@Morwenn I can't quite imagine a circumstance under which any laptop would be ideal. My laptop is a 15" model, which means it's too big to carry around comfortably, but still has too small of a screen to code on it well.
 
@JerryCoffin I've got a big enough laptop and generally don't have to move it anywhere else than another room.
And I mostly use it in my bed anyway x)
 
@JerryCoffin he's never had dual monitors to code with.
 
I hate laptops. I hate their stupidly small keyboards.
And their small screens.
 
@wilx i completely know how you feel
 
10:18 PM
@johnathon I've always had dual monitors at work.
 
@Morwenn ah but to have them at home .. even quad monitors ...
 
I don't care.
 
To each their own
 
I can't have dual monitors in bed, so it's not worth it.
 
i say creatively, you can!
just takes a bit of rigging lol
 
10:20 PM
Anyway, I've got Lucky Star to watch, later :p
 
but if your not single like myself, i wouldn't recommend it
 
@Morwenn I'll bet I could sleep in one of these:
 
Ugh, I wouldn't want one of those ç_ç
 
looks comfy
 
@Morwenn I think it'd be awesome. Probably not very productive, but awesome anyway.
 
10:22 PM
:/
 
Xeo
Not quite as reclined, but I want something similar...
 
really does look comfy
 
@JerryCoffin well, if it rocks you gently
 
@JerryCoffin knowing me, the soon after I would lay down in this, I would need to stand up and pick up a phone/pendrive/whatever or change position or pretty much anything
 
@JerryCoffin I've family friend that got diagnosed with Huntington disease in his mid 30's, he had a similar setup. Last i saw him he was testing Dragon. He had a mouth joystick for a mouse. I've not checked his mom's FB feed as she's Munchhausen.
 
10:34 PM
@milleniumbug I've wondered how quickly you can get free from these if you have to do something else in a hurry.
 
@JerryCoffin probably not THAT fast, but speedily enough to avoid major accidents
 
11:06 PM
I think somebody missed a bit of understatement...
Stephan Lechner this is very true, if the vectors were held simultaneously, but the vector could hold the strings (and be written to a file, a hard drive much larger than the memory) and then move forward in the algorithm and the data can be parsed later. However this isn't the sole purpose and the vector needs to be manipulated as well, so it isn't as easy as printing the combination to the file. — prof_dunwem 40 mins ago
 
it's the whole 1e+158 thing lol
 
anybody care to recommend a cross-platform gui toolkit for somebody without too much exeperience?
 
Ell
how bout that dam
 
@jamesson Qt, or FLTK
 
@jamesson none of the toolkit have much experience
 
11:17 PM
@johnathon either one has better svg support?
 
@jamesson FLTK has openGL support, so does Qt, the real difference between the two is Qt is a framework, FLTK is much more like a library. Qt has everything you can think of wrapped in a c++ class. FLTK is just the UI only.
 
Ell
@jamesson I would guess FLTK doesn't support it
 
@jamesson both have RAD ui designers though, so it's not hard to get a working app up in either one fairly fast
 
Ell
IMO you should use Qt
 
@Ell that's FLUID , it's ui designer
@Ell part of it anyways
 
Ell
11:19 PM
oh you're right
still
 
yea my primary concerns are svg support and speed/stability, pretty much in equal measure
 
it's being updated, yes FLTK is a bit old looking, but it's perfect for 'quick and dirty' to 'we need a light UI because this app is a super bad ass data collector'
 
@johnathon, i dont actually need any of the ui elements, I just need it to load, render, and posiiton svg, and handle mouseclicks. I plan to have skinnable ui everywhere
 
skinnable ui
 
@jamesson that's a bit easier to do with FTLK than Qt IMHO. Your SVG files, you can render those with OpenGL right? Something like stackoverflow.com/questions/6287650/…
 
11:26 PM
@jonathon not sure that I want to use opengl unless I have to, but I guess
 
@jamesson it's the only cross platform SVG rendering library/API I'm really remotely aware of , perhaps CV what ever it is? ... It's been a while i'd have to look it up
@jamesson And there's doc.qt.io/qt-5/qtsvg-index.html
 
@johnathon but browsers dont use opengl do they?
 
@jamesson yes, browsers use openGL
 
hm, did not know that
 
someone needs to implement WebGL, and display movies, and...
 
11:31 PM
@milleniumbug firefox does ok on that , last i checked anyways. what's that aquarium link anyways?
 
@johnathon but, you are saying they use opengl for svg too?
 
@jamesson yes.
 
hm.
neat.
 
@jamesson go read the question. It's got a working example answer
@jamesson and that's the mobile phone port of opengl.
 
11:32 PM
@Telkitty love it.
 
a near-keybard cat
 
:)
 
lim cat (cat=>keyboard) = keyboardcat
 
11:58 PM
Hello, World!
 

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