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8:00 PM
So you're like, indebted for life?
 
Xeo
and my health insurance company just handed me a check over 160eur, as a side-note.
 
the point of the research is that even though a gene that can make you gay obviously doesn't help your reproductive chances (if you are a gay male), your siblings can have boosted reproductive chances that outweigh the loss of the gay male.
so looking at evolution in terms of what helps a specific individual survive or especially in a specific situation doesn't yield all the answers.
evolution selects for what helps your children, in general, survive better across thousands of years and in every situation, and sometimes it can be worth it to make a tradeoff of worse odds in one situation or for some children for better odds in a more common situation or for some other children
 
user3010322
@AndyProwl Unless you have the money or the insurance for it, in which case you just make ridiculous copays.
 
so it seems blatantly stupid that evolution should select for us to be able to die of fear, but unless you know what we gained in addition to that ability, it's hard to say that it doesn't make sense from an evolutionary perspective.
 
@DeadMG Right in which case, it's the parents that benefit from the gene. A gene that makes the girls have 3x more children and the boys gay will be a net plus. From a strictly mathematical standpoint.
 
8:03 PM
@ThePhD behold the virtues of the open market
@R.MartinhoFernandes apparently, I was just a day too impatient: blog.jetbrains.com/dotnet/2014/02/26/…
 
@Xeo Looks/sounds highly suspect to me. Just for comparison, I've had a couple of knee operations. Total cost for both put together was about $5K. Hard to guess whether the person who originally posted this was making something up, or somebody made a typo, or the real damage was dramatically worse than claimed, but entertain serious doubt that either of those is really accurate.
 
@Mysticial Not really. If the men are gay and the girls survive better, then all that will happen on a species level is that all the men will be gay, the women will have no partners, and they'll all die out. The girls can't survive better and reproduce more if all the men are gay.
it only has a net benefit if the men become gay at a sustainable rate.
 
@DeadMG That only happens if the entire population has the gene. But if only a small subset do then it's sustainable.
 
well, yes, but homosexuality is prevalent across the entire animal kingdom and everywhere in the world, so it's fairly safe to say that it's not a small subset of humans.
 
Suppose you start the gene in a single woman in a large population. (a mutation) The gene will continue to multiply among the girls in a logistical fashion until you reach a saturation point where the N% of the total population has it.
Where N might actually be pretty small. But nonetheless bigger than zero.
 
user3010322
8:07 PM
You know, being gay doesn't really affect the population because you can compensate by having more or less children between straight couples.
 
yeah, but that doesn't really work on an evolutionary level because they can't spread genes all the way across the world and have millions of available partners like we can.
the genes spread locally over a long period of time.
so first, the single woman's tribe will get it, and then the surrounding tribes, etc.
so if it turns a substantial proportion of the men gay, then those regions will die out.
 
We're only hypothesizing in an extremely idealized case. If it was genetic, there would certainly be multiple genes involves along with a gazillion other factors.
 
oh, of course.
 
@Mysticial In most cases, if a gene improves survival rate not any noticeable degree (even 1%) it'll spread to virtually the entire population pretty quickly (and if it hurts survival noticeably, it'll die out equally quickly). Most only stabilize if they have no measurable effect on survival (e.g., eye color).
 
But if you plug the idealized case into a simulation, it will probably converge on a fixed point of N% of the population having the gene where N > 0.
 
user3010322
8:09 PM
Yeah... there's also ways around not having children being gay...
 
I'm merely saying that the localization involved in natural genetic spread over a population pretty much rules out any substantial shift in male sexuality.
 
@JerryCoffin In this case, if it spreads too much, then gender imbalance will force it back down. Which should put an upper bound on N.
 
it would have to be only a small incidence of male homosexuality
@Mysticial That can only occur if the population is large enough and the simulation runs for enough time.
 
@DeadMG Right. Doable on a computer - heavily idealized of course.
 
on a smaller local scale, too many men becoming gay in one generation will wipe out your tribe.
a gay genetic factor can only survive in a smaller tribe with a small chance of predisposition towards homosexuality for men.
 
8:11 PM
@DeadMG Correct.
 
you can't have only 1% of women with 100% of men becoming gay.
you'd need a small factor of men becoming gay and then the gene can spread through the population.
 
ponies
 
If you simplified to the point where if a woman has the gene then 100% of the boys will be gay, then that will probably have a high change (possibly 100%) of wiping out a tribe of any size in the long run. But if you fix that probability to something lower - say 10%, it might be self-sustaining.
 
10%'s still too many.
 
@Mysticial I think in reality, it's a bit more complex than that. From what I've read, "gay" typically results from an imbalance of hormone levels while the fetus is developing. Too little Testosterone, and chances of his being gay are increased (and roughly similar but different imbalance for a female fetus). The genetic factors most likely come down to the chances of the mothers' hormone levels during pregnancy being affected in that particular way.
 
8:15 PM
@JerryCoffin I know. I'm oversimplifying to make a sustainable discussion. :P
 
of course
judging by the incidence of homosexuality in the real world we can safely suggest what the sustainable rate turned out to be
what really interests me is where human evolution will go from here when practically any genetic configuration survives.
it's just a pity that I'll be dead and my bones turned to dust before I'll find out
 
There will be one big shootout and we all die.
 
user3010322
Mmm, missiles.
 
Or, like this guy once tried to convince me, the Russians will nuke New York, the Merkins will retaliate and nuke Saint Petersburg and then call it a day and proceed normally.
 
user1804599
8:21 PM
@ThePhD and that’s why it’s foolish to not have an insurance.
 
user1804599
Own fault.
 
@Borgleader What's going on eh?
Pretty spot on, come to think of it.
 
user3010322
@rightfold I can't help but think that insurance should only be needed for extremely serious care (cancers, tumors, life-threatening/life-long diseases) and a lot of the rest should be somewhat easily taken care of by a person on minimal wage.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I like to think that it's going to be like in Fallout.
 
A shitty wasteland filled with ghouls and supermutants?
 
user1804599
8:23 PM
There are two options:
1) Insurance.
2) Pay only when needed (and possibly a shitload).
 
And scorpions
 
@Etienne I don't like to think that.
 
@CatPlusPlus And interesting people.
 
We already have interesting people
 
more like, interesting person, and he's a puppy.
 
user3010322
8:25 PM
Nukes make it more interesting
 
user3010322
And nuclear winter.
 
They don't. Nukes don't cause mutations. They kill you.
Sorry to break it to you.
 
user1804599
Nukes don’t kill.
People do.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Fallout nukes contain fairy dust, not plutonium.
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes q_q all my post-apocalyptic OTPs, gone!
 
8:27 PM
Same thing as what Chernobyl ran on in S.T.A.L.K.E.R..
 
Here's a very basic oversimplified simulation somebody could write.

In each timestep:
1. For each unpaired (single) female, randomly pair her with another single straight male (does not have the gene). Stop when you run out of either females or straight males.
2. For each couple where the female has the gene, 10% proability of producing a child. The child has a 50% proability of carrying the gene. The child has a 50% chance of being male or female. (assume independence between the gender and the gene)
 
That said, I've been stocking up on Coca-Cola caps for the last six months.
 
Nukes turn people into ghouls
 
(Not really)
 
user3010322
I used to have a huge collection of caps.
 
user3010322
8:27 PM
Of all kinds.
 
user3010322
Then it got thrown out and that was the end of that hobby.
 
@CatPlusPlus It's realistic if "ghoul" means "dead person". Otherwise, no.
 
I used to collect stamps
 
It is a fact
 
once upon a time
 
user1804599
8:28 PM
@ThePhD Post-apocalyptic OTP? Is Erlang that reliable? ITT: Erlang can survive the apocalypse.
 
I collect dust. No wait, that's not cleaning my room.
 
Still counts
Time to sleep
 
user1804599
Java has a dust collector.
 
user1804599
Keeps going slower and slower until it can’t collect more dust.
 
@rightfold If something's wrong in Java, it's not in the JVM. For the record.
 
8:34 PM
Community is a big problem, I think.
@Lightness did you vote?
Pie charts are so bad.
 
which community?
 
Pie chart community.
 
user1804599
@EtiennedeMartel Psst. It was a silly joke.
 
@rightfold I will not let you bash the only good thing Java has.
Feel free to shit on everything else, though.
@R.MartinhoFernandes But pies are good.
 
@R.Martin: Oh, shit, I had no time today. Another chance would be appreciated but I will understand if you want to get on with it. And I can play with the apps after voting closes, of course...
 
8:41 PM
What do you say guys? Should I wait for this lazy bum to vote on the jam, or just go on with the results?
 
which lazy bum?
 
Lightness.
 
Cat & BabyDog, it would be so nice to have you in Sweden for our design meetings right now. I sound very much like you when rejecting all the crap that gets thrown around.
 
@EtiennedeMartel What makes you think the JVM is any good?
 
8:42 PM
JVM is p good
 
Except that I lack skill :)
 
@DeadMG Because it works very very well in production environments for a wide variety of projects and applications.
 
And if it didn't, I wouldn't get a pay check every two weeks because that's what our game servers run on.
 
@Mysticial You could write it, but it probably wouldn't mean much. Just for example, I'd hazard a guess that if a significant percentage of men were gay (or a significantly higher percentage than of women being lesbian, anyway) society would adapt by considering it permissible for one many to have multiple female partners (after all, some societies allow that already, even though it's clearly harmful to society).
 
8:45 PM
Who's TTL?
 
user1804599
Tightness Tickles Lightness.
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes Tony The Lion, perhaps?
 
@EtiennedeMartel While I'd agree that the JVM is almost certainly the best part of Java, I don't think that makes the JVM perfect (though I do agree that the constant bashing of the GC gets old and is mostly nonsense).
 
Who won the last contest?
 
8:47 PM
@JerryCoffin Think of the children memory!
 
user1804599
Yeah, where are the results of the game jam votes?
 
@JerryCoffin It's far from perfect, but still, if I had to develop a server application, I'd probably pick a JVM language. Scala looks nice.
 
5 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
What do you say guys? Should I wait for this lazy bum to vote on the jam, or just go on with the results?
lazy bum = Lightness.
 
user1804599
Oh jam. :P
 
user1804599
I read over that and I thought it was about logos.
 
8:48 PM
I haven't played anyone's game from the Jam
or made any votes
 
@EtiennedeMartel I'd agree with JVM. Not so sure about Scala.
 
You still can if you want.
 
nah
 
I'm feeling flump
 
user1804599
8:49 PM
I’d pick Erlang. :D
 
No one says anything. Oh well. @Lightness I'm going to close it. I'm curious and everyone else seems too :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz, you there?
 
user1804599
Oh, funny. If you make the titles bold they are bold in the ToC too.
 
How does flump feel? (sorry not a native Javan)
 
8:50 PM
@R.Mart Can't complain about that. Thanks for waiting this long, anyway.
I did logovote though :)
 
Logo got 30 votes so far!
 
sheesh
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You can tell which votes are mine without even reading the name part.
 
@Jefffrey y
 
So these are the special award nominations, and these are the real award votes.
Gonna count up the points.
 
user1804599
8:52 PM
No permission to view the real award vote results.
 
Oh. Fixing.
 
@BartekBanachewicz when you send data over to the VBO can you forget about the actual array in your application? does it really copy it or just store the pointer to the array?
 
@DeadMG wheee we're up second for second place for best game award :v
 
@Jefffrey It copies it. GPU has a different address space to CPU- it can't read stuff in primary memory.
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ahahahaha hunter2.
 
8:54 PM
meh
frankly the whole thing is kinda meh
 
@DeadMG so assuming you have a bunch of vertex data into an std::array, you successfully send that data to the VBO, the std::array can go out of scope and it's all good, correct?
 
yep
 
thanks
 
man
why did Xeo have to unpin Wide hello world :(
 
I'm happy to see thePhDs response now, after I submitted the logo response =)
This was a bonafide soap opera.
 
8:59 PM
@Jefffrey it copies it to GPU
@Jefffrey yes
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes links?
 
user1804599
Lynx > links.
 
@CaptainGiraffe What do you mean, links?
@CaptainGiraffe You mean the games themselves? On the wiki: loungecpp.net/w/The_2nd_Great_Lounge_Game_Jam
 
user1804599
The axolotl (; etymol. Nāhuatl āxōlōtl (singular) or āxōlōmeh (plural) "water monster"), also known as a Mexican salamander (Ambystoma mexicanum) or a Mexican walking fish, is a neotenic salamander, closely related to the tiger salamander. Although the axolotl is colloquially known as a "walking fish", it is not a fish, but an amphibian. The species originates from numerous lakes, such as Lake Xochimilco underlying Mexico City. Axolotls are unusual among amphibians in that they reach adulthood without undergoing metamorphosis. Instead of developing lungs and taking to land, the adults...
 
user1804599
9:02 PM
TIL about this animal.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, that, thanks.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what are these numbers? o.O
 
@melak47 Total points?
 
oh.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes woo
 
9:07 PM
Most entries says import into VS and build, are any possible to make without windows externals? I'm looking at "fail" and "Bad Rats 2".
 
user1804599
The bronze looks too much like diarrhoea.
 
> Use of commercially-available closed-source libraries: libs supplied with development environments or private libs whose functionality is specified as part of the entry.
I wonder who wrote that...
 
@CaptainGiraffe without externals?
 
@melak47 build with a simple makefile
 
user1804599
Pork can be played with any Befunge interpreter that has zero-based indices.
 
9:08 PM
@melak47 on a raspberry PI.
 
Bad Rats 2 should build with MonoDevelop, I think.
 
hm, the top game award was really tight
 
Wasn't tested but it's not too far-fetched.
 
user1804599
The one I wrote does that but there is UB that may prevent some compilers from compiling it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Any idea what libraries? the -rXXX can be a hassle in mono sometimes
 
9:10 PM
@CaptainGiraffe That said, we didn't think fair to choose any specific platform.
@CaptainGiraffe Hm, System.Core.dll for sure, and I don't think anything else. You will need the native allegro library though.
 
user1804599
I once got Allegro working with Mono.
 
user1804599
It was pretty easy.
 
@CaptainGiraffe msbuild the sln or something you big wuss :p
 
9:13 PM
@melak47 On a RPi?
 
I wish I knew what "msbuild the sin" meant; for the life of me I have no clue.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, I believe in D2D~
 
I need one more achievement to level 4
@melak47 you don't. :D
 
Oh the solution file =)
 
@CaptainGiraffe msbuild the sin, do three cos and repent
 
9:29 PM
The award winners for The 2nd Great Lounge Game Jam have been decided!
6
@Abyx, you won Best Game and Best Gameplay. @Bartek, @RagingScallion, you won Best Content. @Ell, @Rapptz, and @melak and @DeadMG also won medals.
 
@ThePhD Good to hear!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes omg how could it be? I didn't even vote for myself >_<
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Even though it didn't follow the rules, I guess I should have entered mine. It would have been a shoe-in for best content!
:-)
 
@BartekBanachewicz got it
@ThePhD you are not straight darling
 
9:46 PM
They changed the color of the flag indicator.
 
Ooooh, let's try it!
(DON'T)
 
On the main site. Not in chat.
 
user1804599
Maybe changing it to a flag with a swastika on it will refrain people from flagging.
 
I dunno about chat.
 
Oooh, let's check it, then!
 
9:48 PM
Can someone post something offensive so we can flag it to see if they changed the color of the icon?
 
they didn't change that
they never change things on chat
 
@Mysticial let's call @telkitty !
 
problems inception
 
"...............................................................................‌​........................................" is an accurate description of the problem.
 
user3010322
9:58 PM
@Code-Guru Indeedily!
 
user3010322
@Jefffrey I am very straight.
 
You're not crooked like @Stacked?
 
user3010322
Actually, I'm pretty curly.
 
user3010322
But straight in most places?
 
user3010322
Curly-straight?
 
user3010322
9:59 PM
Like, the end of my hair curls.
 
user3010322
But the rest is okay straight.
 

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