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6:00 PM
@rightfold Yet another point on which I'm sure we can all agree! :-)
 
@MartinJames what other topics would you expect to come up in " Lounge<C++> " ?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes LOL!
 
@ScarletAmaranth SFINAE
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes In that case (you hope) it's more popping out that creeping out.
 
6:01 PM
@ScarletAmaranth Vlad, donkeys, beer, not necessarily in that order.
 
user1804599
Substitution failure is not an expert.
 
Donkey genitalia used to be popular
 
@MartinJames god forbid C++ comes up!
@R.MartinhoFernandes I can see the appeal
 
@ScarletAmaranth Recently, all my C++ has gone down.
 
We had enough on-topic discussion today.
 
6:02 PM
@MartinJames at least you've recovered some of your sanity
discussion? it was more like Japanese parliament
 
@ScarletAmaranth The testing/verification thread wore me down. I had to have a break and a beer.
 
I had to have some kitchens
Ooops, no umlaut
 
@MartinJames yeah I stopped following the discussion at some point, it was a "name as many arguments in your favour as you can" contest
 
I had croissants from a can.
 
Hmm. I don't like that joke anymore
 
6:05 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I would think that you would know where your umlaut key is by now.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "Kitchens" or "kuchens"? Didn't you say something about eating kuchen earlier?
Or did I just miss some humor?
 
@Jerry look up Küchen
 
ich gehe schlafen, gute Nacht
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes A victim of slow typing. I was replying before the "Ooops, no umlaut", and didn't notice it until after I was done typing.
 
6:08 PM
@TonyTheLion the real reason some planes arrive early
 
Planes do that?
 
I doubt it
 
Yeah it's on time or late.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Only hyperplanes. But they arrive in a different dimension.
 
6:09 PM
Planes, like trains, are always on time, unless they break down midway
FLIGHT DELAYED ** CRASH
 
I need to get food
 
I don't know why you'd voluntarily step into a tincan flying at 10k above the ground
 
Trains, like ships, wreck; they don't crash.
 
@CatPlusPlus because travel
 
@CatPlusPlus because the man in the white coat said it was safe.
 
6:11 PM
@CatPlusPlus Because it's much safer than a tin can flying only 1K above the ground, obviously!
 
If it's not reachable by train, it's not worth getting to
 
are you scared of flying Cat?
 
@CatPlusPlus thats a polerizing point of view
 
Last time I went on vacation to the Canaries, we had a massive tailwind. The flight computer thingy had the power down so low that the plane was barely flying. In a bit of turbulence, it shook as it wanted to stall. We still got there 40 min early.
 
No idea, never tried
 
6:12 PM
@CatPlusPlus It's perfectly safe.
I flew to Linz.
 
I got pissed at my roommates, so I decided to tell them on coliru.
 
Just avoid wearing a red shirt and you'll be fine
Thank you autocorrect
 
But airports are like nests of paranoia these days, so I'm never going to try
 
Thought you guys may have a good laugh, or slam me for my terrible coding habits.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Your autocorrect says what you think
@Drise Congrats on being 5?
 
6:14 PM
Being honest with your room mates is important
 
@Drise It's simply a terrible means of communication.
 
Unless they're unstable psychopaths
 
Don't take people advice from robots, btw
 
I've tried telling them multiple times, so I thought I'd get creative this time.
Plus, I got to code, which I don't get to do much anymore.
Being IT is meh.
 
@Borgleader Not really. ET3's proposed route goes through Alaska, but not truly over the pole.
 
6:16 PM
@JerryCoffin Its was a pun on Cat being polish ;) albeit a terrible one
 
I am curious, why does en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/chrono/c/localtime not compile with gcc but does with clang?
(according to coliru)
 
@Borgleader Yes, and I re-punned it to talking about the north pole.
 
Maybe you need new room mates
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not far from my mind.
 
I don't think I so much get the point of unit tests...
 
6:18 PM
So, I just created a new branch to integrate our bug reporting tool with JIRA. Named it Godzilla.
 
JIRA is pretty cool.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What's going on eh?
 
@StackedCrooked btw what about that coderbyte thing
@EtiennedeMartel Too much dumb talk about unit testing
 
6:20 PM
@CatPlusPlus they are still doing their thing
 
You mean you still haven't done anything :v
 
@Crowz The primary point is to help the world economy by driving the market for more CPU time and disk space. To help broaden the market, work on unit tests that run on the GPU.
 
@CatPlusPlus I see.
 
Blacklist their referrer, or better yet, make a whitelist instead
@JerryCoffin Unit testing ASICs are what it's at these days
 
AAAARRGGHHHHHHH!!!!
 
6:22 PM
Currently it's not so problematic. Over the last 12 hours I got 122 requests from coderbyte compared to 597 requests from cppreference.
 
user3010322
@Xeo So I was thinking more about the implicit "this" in member functions, and I just realized that it would probably be best to extend the "this" parameter to work not just in member functions, but also in the declaration of a structure or class itself.
 
They're still using your resources for their Kickstarted project without even asking you
 
user3010322
So you could do things like...
 
Cut their fucking referrer out
 
@CatPlusPlus Ah, I guess I'm showing my age. I'm behind the times.
@ThePhD Yes?
 
Xeo
6:25 PM
@JerryCoffin 'like nothing'
 
user3010322
struct woof {
     std::conditional_t<std::is_const_t<decltype(this)>, const Data, Data> operator () std::conditional_t<std::is_const_t<decltype(this)>, const, /*[Not sure how to say "non-const" here...] */>;
 
user3010322
Albeit that's really, really fucking ugly.
 
user3010322
So you'd need some machinery type traits and what not, but.
 
You don't need any of that.
 
user3010322
6:26 PM
The idea is the this parameter could be used in declarations so you could write code that could change based on what "this" constituted (const volatile etc.)
 
Yes, let's make C++ grammar even more complicated by allowing arbitrary expressions in place of function's cv-qualifiers
 
user3010322
vOv
 
user3010322
It's just the start of an idea.
 
auto f(T&& this) -> WithConstOf<Unqual<T>, foo>&
 
@ThePhD How would this differ from overloading a function on the cv-qualifier?
 
6:28 PM
If your function can be polymorphic in cv-qualifiers then you can just write it with most restrictive qualifier
 
Not treating this especially fixes everything.
Even cancer.
 
It doesn't fix my Crawl skills
 
The only thing left to fix is world hunger.
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus That doesn't always apply since the return value doesn't unrestrict itself, see std::vector<>::operator[] returning const_reference versus reference
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes and PHP
 
6:30 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes You could probably have fixed that for the price of Whatsapp
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes That works too, I guess.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Cancer is easy to fix--a few minutes of gamma radition, and it's (literally) dead meat (the side effects can be somewhat problematic though).
 
user3010322
Either that or chemical poison.
 
This is universal solution to all problems
 
@JerryCoffin Unless you end up becoming the hulk
 
6:31 PM
Just bombard the planet with gamma rays
All problems solved
 
@Borgleader Okay, so not all possible (or at least theorized in fantasy) side effects are necessarily problematic. Happier now?
 
@JerryCoffin Oh dont look at me like that. This is Lounge<Pedantry> right? ;)
 
@ThePhD YOU USIN MAH NAME?!
 
user3010322
Uh. Maybe. Just a little?
 
6:35 PM
He said it three times in front of a mirror, but you didn't appear, so he thought he'd try C++ instead
 
user3010322
It's true. I wanted someone to snuggle with.
 
@CatPlusPlus Definitely want a pentagram on the floor to keep the C++ from escaping once you've summoned it.
 
user3010322
@JerryCoffin That'd make for an interesting logo. :D
 
@ThePhD It might, but I doubt I'm the one to draw it (and it's too late anyway--voting is already started).
 
@EtiennedeMartel Woo JB released R# open beta. I can leech for a while longer.
 
user3010322
6:38 PM
Monastery<Hell++>: Save Haskell! Don't let it escape the holy ground!
 
@ThePhD Looks like you've just selected the three themes for the next Lounge Jam.
 
user3010322
Sounds good to me!
 
@rightfold yeah... I'm just not getting the point in 'register'. you said it was a bit like a global...
 
user1804599
It is for when you want to have a global server that other processes can communicate with.
 
user1804599
But yeah it’s a global so meh.
 
6:44 PM
@ThePhD The point is that they have to be provided on short notice. So I guess that means Jam #3 starts in 16 minutes.
 
@rightfold is it 'global' to those process too then?
 
user3010322
@JerryCoffin Well, maybe we can shake it up and have those be the themes for the next ones anyways! See what happens when people have time to prepare. :D
 
user1804599
@thecoshman it’s global.
 
Is there a reason the declare a function as void fun(T (&arr)[N]) instead of void fun(T arr[N])? arr is never modified inside the function and the second option decays to a pointer, so the array is never copied.
 
user1804599
It’s just like a global in C++.
 
user1804599
6:45 PM
Well, node-local. :P
 
> We would like to thank you for the participation in our C++ IDE survey. Unfortunately our first private preview as we see from the information that you have kindly provided won’t work well in your environment (build system, compiler, debugger or libraries used are not supported yet). We kindly ask you to be patient and to wait for later builds with better support for your project.
wankers.
 
If it's not a reference it decays and loses size information
 
@ThePhD There you go ruining my spontaneity.
 
user3010322
@PaulManta I don't know. C was weird. Use void fun(const std::array<T, N>& arr) instead.
 
@PaulManta Yes, there's a reason (that being: "so it works").
 
6:46 PM
Array decay is stupid and you don't want it ever
 
@rightfold right right...
 
@ThePhD C doesn't have references silly
 
@JerryCoffin So what works?
 
Reference is also not a copy
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus I meant moreso that C++ has to support some C syntax, and so when it added references it had to do crazy weirdness to make sure it works with regular C syntax?
 
user3010322
6:47 PM
Maybe. I don't know. @JerryCoffin probably knows the answer, being a master and all.
 
The correct answer is "don't use C arrays because they're shit"
 
@CatPlusPlus I know. I was saying that neither option copies the array, so I don't see why the reference was added.
 
To not decay duh
 
@PaulManta Passing an array (instead of trying to, but getting a pointer instead). A function parameter of type "array of T" is silently adjusted by the compiler to "pointer to T", at which point "N" is lost and with it the point of the function.
 
@JerryCoffin Ah, I should have specified, T and N are template parameters, so N is not actually lost, even if you don't use references.
 
6:49 PM
It is lost
 
...or, if you prefer a play on words: at which point the function has being pointer-full and in the process pointless.
 
user3010322
I thought you can't to T arr[N] in the first place?
 
user3010322
in C++. Or am I tripping?
 
user3010322
Like, in a function declaration
 
user3010322
Let me try on coliru...
 
Xeo
6:51 PM
you can, if you explicitly provide N
 
@PaulManta Actually, it has been. A parameter like char x[13] really is adjusted to char *x, so (for example) inside the function ++x actually increments x (which wouldn't be possible at all if it were an array).
 
@Xeo You can, of course, do that, but at that point it's really no different from void f(T *data, size_t size), except that it requires size to be a compile-time constant.
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin obviously
 
user3010322
6:53 PM
Doesn't work at all.
 
user3010322
Arrays are not passable by value unless you fix N.
 
Ah, okay.
 
user3010322
So I guess templates don't count.
 
Thanks!
 
user3010322
Wait
 
6:53 PM
@ThePhD They're not passable by value at all.
 
user3010322
cat did the same thing already
 
Xeo
@ThePhD s/ un.*//
 
@Xeo Yes (believe me--I haven't become so arrogant in the last few hours that I thought I was teaching you something new there, or anything like that!)
 
user3010322
@DeadMG Oh. Kinky.
 
user1804599
Arrays are passible by value.
 
Xeo
6:54 PM
@DeadMG cept if you wrap them in a struct. then they suddenly are
 
user3010322
@rightfold With std::array, maybe
 
hence the wonders of std::array
 
user1804599
void foo(std::vector<int> xs) { }
std::vector<int> xs;
foo(xs); // here I pass an array by value
 
user1804599
:P
 
user3010322
compile-time array. D:<
 
user3010322
6:55 PM
Or... array_view ~
 
Xeo
@rightfold we were talking C-style arrays, thanks for missing the point
 
user1804599
I missed it on purpose. I hope you’re happy now.
 
user3010322
I have buffer_view<T> and array_view<T, N>. Not sure if they're good names...
 
@rightfold No, you passed a vector by value. No array there anywhere.
 
user3010322
I think they work okay, though.
 
user3010322
6:56 PM
I was going to call buffer_view vector_view instead, but.
 
user3010322
That implies it allows push_back and push_front and other stuff.
 
@ThePhD Obviously you need it to be immutableVectorView. And following proper IoC principles, you also need an immutableVectorViewFactory. Oh wait, the factory itself is also immutable, so that should be immutableVectorViewImmutableFactory. Java here we come!
 
user3010322
All aboard the Java train, woo woo!
 
user3010322
Next stop, insanity!
 
user3010322
Porting to OpenGL is hard.
 
user3010322
7:00 PM
So many function calls. So little time. :c
 
https://bitbucket.org/alfonse/opengl-enumerator-database/
y u no show how to use it :(
 
@ThePhD Traveling at the speed of dark.
 
@rightfold did you vote your own logo?
 
user3010322
@JerryCoffin The train cars, when some light seems to wander lost through the bars up ahead, seem to look like a padded cell of some sort.
 
I didn't know what to do, so I placed my logo as second choice :/
I still feel guilty though
 
user3010322
7:10 PM
If it's good, it's good. Vote for your own shit if its good. ._.
 
I think that you shouldn't be allowed to vote your own shit in contests. It's a good rule in general.
 
user1804599
Politicians vote for themselves. :v
 
@rightfold You do make a strong argument for prohibiting votes for your own shit. :-)
 
lol
 
Posted for the bottom dialog option.
 
7:17 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Yoda's turned brown, and now he's pushing the power of the dark side!
Or should I say: "Brown, Yoda has turned, and the power of the dark side he now pushes!"
 
user1804599
#GetCovered: http://www.HealthCare.gov, http://t.co/aLgNi2Bq4l
 
user1804599
But why. :|
 
they nailed it
 
user1804599
Tell that to Jesus.
 
user3010322
Lol.
 
7:23 PM
LOL
 
Xeo
Oooh, this week's Extra Credits is really nice
 
@rightfold Smell that? That's the stink of desperately trying to justify your own existence.
 
@JerryCoffin Woa.
 
7:28 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I didn't really capture the intended gist very well, but their campaign is largely centered on trying to convince us ("us", of course, only including US voters, not, for example, you) that they're unnecessary, because we really want to do what they're forcing us to.
So they're kind of stuck in this strange situation of trying to justify their own existence (really, we're good for you) on the basis that they're unnecessary (because even if we weren't here to force you to, you'd want to do it anyway).
 
I'm not following sorry
I mean, what is "they" in "they're unnecessary"?
 
@Jefffrey That's not surprising. The logic is too convoluted to allow easy explanation or understanding.
@Jefffrey The department of Health and Human Services (HHS).
 
the department is unnecessary?
 
@Jefffrey Yes and no. It's at least arguable that part of what it does is necessary, but its primary mandate at the present time is to convince people that buying into the new insurance program is something they want rather than something they're doing because they're forced to (with HHS doing the enforcement).
 
Hurray, I think I got it
Github's new text editor github.com/atom
 
7:38 PM
Why is public healthcare in the US such a tough issue?
 
Because socialism bad capitalism good
 
@EtiennedeMartel Basically, because a large proportion of their population is convinced that anything, ever, to do with regulation, laws, or the government, must be bad by default.
 
well, what's wrong with private health care?
 
Are lolbertarians that large proportion though
 
I think both Cat and Puppy are really missing a lot. Most of it comes down to neither side having much (if any) evidence that what they advocate will actually accomplish much (if anything) useful.
 
7:45 PM
lol, cat finally got tired of playing fetch, so decided to try to sit near me and not on the table
 
@thecoshman I'm totally not imagining a cat with a monocle playing fetch right now
 
@JerryCoffin What, specifically?
 
A large part (perhaps even the majority, though I don't have figures handy to say for sure) of the high cost of health care in the US is actually caused by the FDA. Getting almost any sort of treatment approved for use in the US is insanely expensive compared to most other countries, and companies charge accordingly.
 
@Borgleader lol
health care is expensive in US for a lot of reasons.
Another big problem is that companies who make medical equipment have no reason to reduce prices. In the UK for contrast companies bid to get exclusive contracts to supply things. So they have a reason to make things as a cheap as possible, of course, still having to keep to standards.
 
Just for example, until the Internet came along, most medicine in the US was around triple the cost in Canada--partly because of Canada's nationalized health care, but in large part because getting it approved in the US simply cost so much more that they had to raise the price drastically to make a profit at all. The same is true with most medical equipment, and so on.
 
7:48 PM
doesn't getting a medicine approved in the US basically involve bribing all the doctors but technically it's legal?
 
Tsk, it's called "lobbying"
 
@Drise foolish child.
 
@DeadMG At least in theory, no. In fact...well, it'd probably cost less and be more effective if it honestly was a matter of just bribing all the doctors. In fact, it's often a matter of repeating clinical trials until they stumble on the right groups of people to show that the treatment is much safer and more effective than anybody has any reasonable hope of expecting or even hoping for.
 
How have I become associated with coliru?
 
@thecoshman Association by guilt.
 
7:52 PM
well
 
user3010322
 
user3010322
Canada the best.
 
recently I watched a super-duper-interesting documentary on the BBC about the placebo effect
turns out that placebos work even if you tell people you're giving them a placebo
 
@DeadMG can
 
and there's a bunch of established procedures that are actually completely not any more effective than placebo at all.
 
7:54 PM
was going to say, that's the maddest thing about them.
 
user3010322
 
Xeo
the brain is just crazy
 
user3010322
US Hospital bills are also crazy.
 
@ThePhD Owch.
 
Xeo
I mean, you can die from fear. how is that a good survival strategie?
 
7:55 PM
@ThePhD Alberta. Nuff' said.
 
probably the ability to die of fear grants other abilities that increase survival more
 
Xeo
@ThePhD CAT scan 7000... wat
 
user3010322
@Xeo Welcome to the U.S.
 
user3010322
 
user3010322
Break ankle here? EIGHTY THOUSAND.
 
7:56 PM
Most of it is a more or less accidental side effect of what happened with thalidomides in the '50s. They were approved in much of the world, then withdrawn after the side effects (birth defects) were found. The US FDA took enough extra time that they never approved them, and have turned that (even though it was originally largely an accident) into an excuse for being ridiculously conservative about approving any new treatments.
 
for example, the sisters of homosexual men have more children than sisters of heterosexual men, which is why the genes help survival even though the men are clearly not aided by this mechanism.
 
Xeo
@ThePhD how the fuck are you ever supposed to pay that?
 
@Xeo If I had my CT scan privately here it was about £2000.
 
user3010322
@Xeo You're not.
 
user3010322
You keep paying over a lifetime.
 
user3010322
7:57 PM
Small incremental payments.
 
Xeo
wtf
 
user3010322
Plus interest.
 
user3010322
By the time they're done with you, you're 80 years old still paying for your broken ankle at 36.
 
pretty ridiculous.
I'd be super-duper broke if I was in the US with my sickness without coverage.
 
Xeo
I'm currently undergoing treatment for my bad disc, and so far it has explicitly cost me... 30eur
 
7:58 PM
@DeadMG ... are you saying there is a gay gene?
 
I've paid maybe about the same for some prescriptions
 
Xeo
20 for physio, 10 for meds
 
user3010322
You wouldn't be anything in the U.S. except a collection of rotting flesh in a casket.... if you can afford the funeral, that is.
 
@thecoshman "a" gay gene? No. But there are genetic components.
 
user3010322
If not some paid gravediggers will just throw you in a hole and give you a nondescript gravestone.
 
7:59 PM
@ThePhD lolwut that's ridiculous
 
@DeadMG right...
 

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