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10:00 PM
inb4 penis joke.
 
I'm telling you how you feel, and it's not straight.
 
user3010322
@EtiennedeMartel There's a penis joke to be hard with semi-curliness?
 
@ThePhD No, with straightness.
Wait. To be hard?
Is that a pun? Or a weird typo?
 
user3010322
I think it was a typo. But now I'm passing it off as a pun!
 
user3010322
Or maybe it was a Freudian slip?
 
10:02 PM
> I want to add actual gameplay.
Use of commercially-available closed-source libraries: libs supplied with development environments or private libs whose functionality is specified as part of the entry.
I organised it, so obviously it was awesome :D Dunno, we can look at the results from previous poll (I have them on my drive) and pick another compromise next time. It was fun anyway.
I want to not be selling furniture so I can participate
Moar time.
Moar time! Make it seven days!
The crappy open-source only rules. I should be able to depend on outside libraries, so long as the code for the
These are all the suggestions for the next time.
On thing is clear: no one wants to be selling furniture.
 
user3010322
Fucking furniture!
 
Two people want to be able to use closed source stuff. One of them is @ThePhD. Who's the other one?
 
Does it matter?
 
Of course it does.
 
user3010322
Clearly. We need to know who else to tell to suck it up.
 
10:07 PM
I'm up for allowing the use of any libs.
And I'd say more time is an obvious one. Seven days! (ok maybe not everyone wants that much more; fuckers)
 
user3010322
Seven days would be quite the stretch of time.
 
@EtiennedeMartel It's Martin.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Game jams usually last 48h.
 
user3010322
I would like it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah.
 
10:07 PM
I think that in those seven days everything will be done in the last day
 
I'm all for allowing any kind of external tech. As long as we take that into account when reviewing.
I mean, the goal is to see who can make the best game with the constraints, not who can use Unity the best.
 
right ^
it's about games and not tools
 
The tools should allow you to better express your ideas, but in the end it's about creativity.
And I can make a crap game with Unreal, just like I can make a good game with just a console and a few broken dreams.
(I feel like Captain Obvious right now, but I think this needs to be mentionned, just in case)
 
vOv I don't see what's hard about 'open source'
 
@thecoshman There's no such thing as good open source tech when it comes to games.
 
10:11 PM
@EtiennedeMartel FWIW, look who won Best Game.
 
@EtiennedeMartel and?
 
@thecoshman So saying "open source only" is like saying "no tech allowed".
 
I was being facetious.
 
FWIW, neither of the people that actually suggested that are interested in Unity or whatever. (hey, you were the one that said who they were matters!)
 
10:13 PM
vOv if it was up to me, open source or don't use it. Either way, I'm not doing it, so meh.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think @ThePhD just want to use his own engine.
 
@EtiennedeMartel how does it matter? you going disregard their opinion if you don't like them?
 
user3010322
@EtiennedeMartel For obvious reason.
 
@EtiennedeMartel from what I can gather that was it, he wants to be able to keep the rights masterpeice
@ThePhD you don't want people to help improve it?
 
heh
as if being OSS suddenly means that you get a thousand people jumping on the project to help improve it.
 
10:17 PM
^ this
 
@DeadMG ¬_¬ I'm being silly, if his work was OSS he would be subjected to us ripping it apart :P
 
I doubt that very much.
 
@thecoshman Instantly.
 
Wide is full of shit code and probably so is every other OSS project maintained by every one of us
 
I'd print it immediately in order to rip it to shreds.
 
10:18 PM
but nobody goes out ripping them to shreds
it's just far too much effort to go shitting on someone else's code
unless he actually posts the code here, overwhelming chance is none of us and basically nobody else will ever read it.
 
Star Citizen just patched in Oculus Rift support. Now all I need is for the Oculus guys to release the consumer model :D
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes How unecological.
 
@DeadMG Last time I remember that happening it was when some dude wrote a shitty filesystem wrapper an tweeted about it asking for comments and then 2-3 people from the lounge when to town on it.
 
@Borgleader I just noticed that they got past the 39M goal, and are now finally in the final funding g-- no, wait.
 
10:20 PM
@thecoshman Because I'm totally the kind of person who likes to shit on other people's opinions.
 
@Borgleader Yeah, so he asked us for our opinions.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Star Citizen can get pretty fucking expensive.
 
@Borgleader Er, the guy improved a lot of code with sehe's suggestions.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I didn't say the outcome wasn't positive. They did tear it apart if memory serves though. Or maybe they just laughed at it here and were constructive on github, im not sure I was playing Jedi Outcast at the time.
 
Pretty much only sehe cared.
Some people mentioned one or two snippets and kept on with their daily fapping or whatnot.
 
10:22 PM
@sehe the Care Bear.
 
fap fap fap
 
@EtiennedeMartel so why does it matter who wants closed source libs?
 
Pro-tip: if you leave the window open, it gets cold.
 
lol
 
@thecoshman I was just curious.
 
10:23 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ok, I'm not going to convince you but here's the concept. They'll make the game as big as people will want it to be. If people keep sending them money they keep adding on features. If you'd looked at the list 6 months ago a lot of the newer goals weren't there. Each milestone they reach they add a new one. In fact some of the goals are voted by backers.
 
@EtiennedeMartel so it doesn't matter?
 
@thecoshman More or less.
 
user3010322
Someone is arguing with me that evil doesn't exist in the world and that its an entirely made up term.
 
@Borgleader That's the definition of crowdfunding.
With 10,000$ packages.
 
user3010322
Currently, we're discussing how murder is a mental defiency and that non-zero energy, effort, and time to deviate from the status-quo of being not-dead is not necessarily evil, just sad/tragic.
 
10:23 PM
@ThePhD Like most terms, yes, it's made up.
 
(What the fuck)
 
user3010322
I like this conversation. :D
 
I can buy a 225$ virtual ship? Woop woop sign me up!
 
@EtiennedeMartel Some of the packages are insane I'll give you that.
 
@ThePhD I had a friend that was genuinely convinced kids are intrinsically evil.
 
10:25 PM
hi
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes That must be an awesome conversation.
 
@Borgleader (That said, from what I've gathered, 25$ is the minimum, right?)
 
user3010322
Once I was done having that conversation I'd bring kids near him all the time.
 
user3010322
Albeit, that's strange: wouldn't that imply that he, too, was once intrinsically evil?
 
user3010322
What changed to make him not-evil? Growing up?
 
10:26 PM
Actually, we're still very good friends, but we don't see each other often anymore.
 
user3010322
AFAICT, growing up usually makes you more evil. Or at least make you hate arbitrary shit for no particularly good or logically justifiable reason.
 
user3010322
Adults scare me more than children ever could, is what I'm getting at.
 
@ThePhD What is "good" and what is "evil" varies from time to time. I know what is good or evil according to my own set of values, but I know this is not absolute and anyone who thinks otherwise has his own head stuck so far up his own ass he breathes gastric acid.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what were the responses for the password?
I want to see the jokes damn it.
 
@Borgleader I was mostly mocking the media that repeatedly keep mentioning the "final funding goal"
 
user3010322
10:27 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Sounds about right.
 
VS2013 CTP has NSDMIs?
 
> UaL983=_!3w9AQpZ
BadPr0grammer1983
Was ThePhD really that stupid? Like really?
I am secretly in love with Bartek, Cat and the Robot.
.
password for what?
mandolin99
hunter2
biteme936, wait... why isn't this a type=password text field?
this was a cool joke
 
ah excellent it does
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
@EtiennedeMartel If memory serves that sounds about right. I got the 40$ package (Digital Bounty Hunter) at the time. It comes with: Origin 300i (ship), hangar discount, 2000UEC (some in game money), digital copy of the soundtrack, alpha access, digital download of the game, 4 month insurance (i assume its similar to Eve Online in game ship insurance), digital star map (lol), beta access, squadron 42 digital download (the SP portion of SC)
 
10:28 PM
I'm actually pretty drunk, ama.
 
@Borgleader Seems reasonable.
 
user3010322
@DeadMG NSDMIs?
 
@Rapptz I wonder if #4 is ScottW
 
non-static data member initializers
 
Scott is #2
 
10:30 PM
Actually, I can just look it up in the results
 
hmm
I should really introduce a proper concept of constant string/integer.
 
@DeadMG all integers and strings should be constant.
 
user3010322
Anything that's made purely out of compile-time data should be constant.
 
@ThePhD yes, and...?
 
I'll play Bartek.
> Everything should be constant.
 
10:36 PM
well
the real question is how I go about handling that.
 
Ooh, playing Bartek, that's fun.
 
at the simplest level I guess I could have like, a variant<RuntimeExpression, std::string, int> kind of thing.
 
> Everything should be compile time information.
 
Fuck languages that don't make everything constant.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Was this to vote on the games?
 
10:37 PM
but that sounds like a kinda unpleasant special case.
 
> That's real safety
 
I could create a distinct type for each value.
3
 
@DeadMG not only CTP, 2013 RTM also has them
 
but that does not appeal to me.
 
10:38 PM
@Rapptz someone should write a language called 2 where the only valid program is the program 2 that returns 2.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ??
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes wat
 
Like HQ9+?
 
Oh God what have I done
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes wat?
 
10:39 PM
@Rapptz you're constant.
 
esoteric language
god damn you guys are extra slow today
 
I've never heard of any language called HQ9+
 
You just don't realize it yet.
 
don't make it a point to study esoteric languages.
 
That went wrong.
@Borgleader The answers to i.sstatic.net/7sNti.png
 
10:40 PM
wtf is wrong with the robot
7
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Some of them are actually correct? :P
 
I put hunter2
 
most esoteric languages boil down to same language really, just different symbols for the operations. some offer slightly more 'powerful' combined operations though.
 
@thecoshman Not really. There's lots and lots of variety.
 
10:43 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes s/s /s that I've seen /
 
COBOL is actually an esoteric language
2
People haven't realised this yet though
 
HQ9+ is meant for winning at code-golf.
 
Except for the + instruction, that is.
 
shit
 
10:45 PM
> This is not the page of the non-esoteric language COBOL.
lol
 
p0p lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes seems I've mostly seen Brainfuck and whitespace like languages
 
@DeadMG I feel the need to explain that I'm sober.
 
Did they teach COBOL in your schools?
Or just mine
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes then you are probably not
 
user3010322
10:47 PM
@Rapptz A handful of schools do.
 
@thecoshman There's all sorts of crazy shit. Piet, Befunge, Shakespeare, ...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I feel the need to explain that you're a muppet.
:P
 
user3010322
I haven't encountered it here yet, though
 
user3010322
This school is all JAVA C JAVA C PYTHON YEEA
 
user3010322
I'm so glad I was on leave for 2 years.
 
user3010322
10:48 PM
Gave me time to avoid all the Java.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, I've just never been hugely interested in them, a bit of amusement maybe. I know some actually play with interesting ideas. (by 'know' I do of course mean 'assume')
 
> Consequently, COBOL is considered by at least one source to be "The most readable, understandable and self-documenting programming language in use today. [...] Not only does this readability generally assist the maintenance process but the older a program gets the more valuable this readability becomes."
 
hmm
one wonders if I should allow C++ macro calls, and if so, if I should permit the bad stuff
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes o_0
 
10:49 PM
@Etienne I disagree with what you said earlier; opensource is shit in games if you want to spam the market with crappy mobile games or make AAAs. However, given the goals of the jam, opensource stuff like Love fit the niche perfectly. And I would happily make the next jam CLI only again.
 
like #define double(a) a + a in C++ and tu.macro(a++) expanding to a++ + a++ in Wide.
 
At least with CLI we might see people actually finishing stuff, because for 25 participants we got 7 games
 
how is open source shit in games?
 
> crappy mobile games
 
@DeadMG I'd say no.
 
10:50 PM
Smooth.
 
well
 
@EtiennedeMartel He likes pleonasm.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Double smooth.
 
I guess the ultimate issue here is that I'm not sure how much macro compatibility is genuinely useful.
 
@Rapptz Game dev is shit, therefore...
 
10:51 PM
I wish I found gamedev more enjoying
 
@DeadMG I'd say support macros that are constants and nothing else.
 
@rapptz that was what etienne said
 
too late for that
 
Too late for what?
 
well
 
10:52 PM
night
 
I use the same code for handling macro expressions as I do for handling default argument expressions.
 
It was not a pleonasm btw.
 
@DeadMG I assume you allow the macros to do what ever they do within the C++ code? I wouldn't let them leak into wide code though (is that what you are saying?)
 
so you can already have stuff like #define SHIT std::string("shit").
 
can you use that macro in pure wide?
 
10:53 PM
not really.
 
@DeadMG Well, what I meant was that the most useful macros are things like GL_FRAGMENT_SHADER. Those you want to have, but they're effectively enums in crappy C because no one C99.
 
huh
C89 didn't have enums?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'd say force users to define proper enums in the wide code :S
 
yeah, but I'm also thinking about some of the Lua macros which are like, #define lua_ermahgerd(L, X) lua_reallyermahgerd(L, X, 1).
they're not really dangerous.
 
The others either work around C++ syntax issues, or are just call shortcuts.
@DeadMG What about lua_ermahgerd(std::vector<int, my_allocator<int>>) :P
 
10:56 PM
ah well
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
Pretty much all non-variadic function-like macros are broken in C++.
 
well
that's Clang's problem.
:D
 
@thecoshman And assign what values to them? Either you have the macros in Wide code, or you write a C/C++ wrapper.
 
actually
the original motivation for including any kind of macro handling was GetStdHandle which is exactly the case the robot described.
the argument is a WinAPI define that's like, #define STD_OUTPUT_HANDLE 54644347786
 
TIL there are people out there who don't think math is real
 
user3010322
10:58 PM
Lol
 
What does that even mean?
 
user3010322
"Math is an illusion, maaan."
 
user3010322
"It was made up by the man to make us feel dumb, maaan."
 
I think they're trying to be heavily philosophical.
 
@DeadMG Exactly. You run into this shit a lot with .NET interop. Looking up magic values in the source code.
 
10:59 PM
Something about it being man-made while biology and physics have a certain study to them.
 
user3010322
@Rapptz To a degree, they're right. Math is an abstraction of the models and relationships we find true in reality.
 
@ThePhD That's not really true at all.
 
user3010322
But... you can't really say "Math doesn't exist"
 
user3010322
That's just bologne.
 

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