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12:00 AM
@johnathon We're in this "mess" because the southern border wasn't/isn't secure. In the last few years its gotten more secure and immigration has fallen, as you know more people are leaving then entering. But we shouldn't be deporting people who are integrated and literally are our society.
 
@johnathon No, the point of TRUMP is to be a racist.
ok, let me rephrase.
securing the existing border against fresh illegal immigrants is one thing
but I am unaware of any objective reason to deport existing migrants.
I'm pretty sure that all evidence is that they benefit the country in many ways
 
@Puppy low paying jobs = jobs for America's largest out of job segment.
 
and an objective person would conclude that the existing migrants should simply be brought in
 
@Puppy enforcing the law, that's the reason
 
@Abyx No, it isn't.
laws can be changed, they are nothing but a tool to better society, and if they are broken, an objective person would simply change them to work better.
he would not throw out a bunch of useful workers just because
 
12:02 AM
@Puppy so we should let people commit murder because their reasons were good?
 
he would do that only if he was a short-sighted fool
 
@Puppy but nobody would change this particular law
 
@johnathon did something new happen while I was out of the country for a week? Last thing I remember they were deporting (or rather barring entry for) legal immigrants and even permanent residents with dual citizenships which was a problem.. illegal has always been illegal.
 
@Puppy There is a lot of evidence that this isn't the case for the influx of low salary immigrants from Mexico. HN had a level headed discussion of the issue pointing to this article: nytimes.com/2017/02/27/opinion/…
 
@Abyx Because they are racist and incapable of objectively looking at the overwhelming evidence that they are a big positive for society.
@johnathon We already do in various cases, e.g. self-defence.
 
12:03 AM
@Puppy because the country cannot sustain increase of such people
it has nothing to do with racism
 
@Abyx There's little evidence of that. For one thing, they're already here.
 
@Puppy There are a few (though I'd agree that the preponderance is undoubtedly in the other direction). The most common is for people who are already in extremely low-paying jobs. With more cheap labor, they stand no chance of getting more pay for the same work (and reduced pay or losing their job completely is entirely possible).
 
@Puppy Liberalisation policies seem to work much better than "war on drugs" bullshit.
 
@JerryCoffin I think that I would argue that this problem is really caused by the complete lack of any reality to the American Dream and the mass of inequality.
 
@Puppy yes they're here. but if you abolish the law - there will be much more
 
12:04 AM
@Abyx You can write laws that apply only to existing migrants, you know.
and frankly, they're clearly coming whether you allow it or not, so you may as well make the best of them
 
@Puppy ok, an amnesty. what happens to new illegal migrants then?
 
well I'd ignore them until they start causing actual measurable problems
then kick them out
but since illegal immigration hasn't produced any for a hundred years, I doubt it'll do so now
 
@Puppy you're contradicting yourself
 
@Puppy That might well be true--but if you're working for minimum wage, and face a prospect of losing even that, chances are you're likely to be against what you see as the direct cause of your likely losing your job.
 
@JerryCoffin Just to be clear, I'm not saying things are done better in Britain on this regard, because our country is an absolute travesty in this fashion as well.
 
12:06 AM
@Abyx No he isn't. Yes saying that he'll kick them out when they become a problem. And he's saying that it isn't a problem. Therefore there's no reason to kick them out.
 
@Abyx Britain has an immigration problem too I just don't know how close to his daily life it hits home. Probably nothing compared to Jerry Coffin's, or me.
 
Britain's problems are, as usual, almost entirely caused by Britain.
 
lol, Britain has an immigration problem.
 
@johnathon britain has no ground borders IIRC
 
but our population increase is very high- much faster than other comparable countries.
 
12:08 AM
@Abyx and that's why it's not as 'rampant' as it is in the usa, or perhaps russia?
 
@Puppy people legally coming from your former colonies?
 
@JerryCoffin Yes, but one has to ask why they see it that way. After all, their politicians should be enlightened objective people educating them about the real problems they face, instead of blaming it on those dirty Mexicans.
@Abyx EU mostly (also legal).
 
@Abyx and it does have ground borders, canada, austrialia, ect..
 
@johnathon it is rampant in russia.
 
and that's one of the biggest reasons we want to leave the EU
 
12:09 AM
@Abyx then that's why you share my sentiment.
 
@johnathon I think he is a KGB agent
 
o7
 
our health system is falling apart, which is not at all caused by insufficient funding, planning, increasing population average age, etc and absolutely is caused by EU migrants.
 
LMAO
 
@Puppy But now you got those 350 million, so problem solved.
 
12:10 AM
oh yeah.
frankly
I think that it shows how toothless our electoral regulators are
they can just flat out lie during the campaign and face no consequences
I'd jail those No campaigners for that
 
@Puppy I suspect most are too busy working 18 hours a day to support themselves and their families to pay much attention to politicians or education in general.
 
ok, that probably is true for at least some folks
that's still no excuse for their politicians, though.
 
FWIW, the UK does have a land border.
 
causing a lot of hilarity, that border
 
12:12 AM
we want to keep our very open border with Ireland which is part of Schengen, but we don't want those filthy migrants in
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes gibraltar?
 
The British Channel?
 
Ireland.
 
@Puppy I think it's a bit atrocious for someone to be so polarized about someone with out ever truly assessing their political positions such as your SOH did in his rather publicized rant about Trump.
 
soh?
 
12:12 AM
Speaker of your hose of commons
i should have been more clear, sorry
 
ha ha
I have not read what he said in detail
and I think that normally I hate his guts
but +1 for that guy right now
 
LOL
 
fuck Trump and I'll vote for anybody who'll stand up in the Houses of Parliament and say it on the record
 
you should have read his comments, or at the very least watched the video of it
 
@Puppy Tony Blair :-)
 
12:13 AM
@Puppy "Speaking in Parliament is an earned honour, not a right, so fuck off racists.", more or less.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'll star that in Hansard
 
@johnathon You really shouldn't be accusing people of being polarized when you yourself are also polarized. In fact, most of the country is quite polarized at this point and it's going to get worse.
 
He said Trump isn't welcome.
 
@Puppy No, not at all. Somehow, it reminds me of something I've heard (but haven't confirmed) about southerners before the civil war. Supposedly the group most strongly in favor of retaining slavery weren't the rich slave owners. Instead, it was the poorest farmers--slaves gave them someone to feel superior to, and most figured to be the biggest losers if slaves were freed (whereas the wealthy slave owners were likely to become wealthy employers of recently-freed slaves).
 
12:14 AM
Are you telling me that if a noble in the UK wanted to address parliament he would be barred based on that simple fact?
 
yeah, I know he said something against Trump
 
@johnathon The British Parliament is largely composed of nobles.
 
it's not The Parliament, just Parliament
 
@Mysticial I'm polarized because of what? I've assessed the situation and came to my own conclusion and it's not what your view is?
 
@Puppy I missed the adjective there :)
 
12:15 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes no, the house of commons MAY have a noble, but it's not a requirement, and neither is the house of lords these days either.
 
truth is
if someone were elected MP or made a Peer, I doubt that they would be blocked from speaking on that grounds
 
that's what i thought.
 
but nor would they make an official state visit to meet the Queen
for the Lords we pretty much just ignore them if they don't do anything we don't like
 
I doubt you'd ignore me
 
and as for the Commons
I think that if you're outright racist in the Commons, you can get thrown out.
and if you're repeatedly racist, you probably could get barred from speaking.
 
12:17 AM
@johnathon Do I really need to repeat this?
Feb 13 at 2:53, by johnathon
@sehe it's more than that. The refugees want to kill us as much as the people they are fleeing from
 
Trump is just a much bigger, more open racist than anybody in Britain, at least in Parliament
 
@Mysticial that's truth sir.
 
No it isn't.
 
it's bullshit
 
@Mysticial from the countries that's barred from entering this nation, it's truth
 
12:18 AM
not barred anymore
go US courts
 
@johnathon Show us some evidence.
Fake news doesn't count.
 
@Puppy the 9th circuit was overturned so i hear, so yes go us courts
 
Neither do alternative facts.
 
nope
the other guys appealed to the Supreme Court, but the Supreme Court has yet to decide if they will take the case.
 
@johnathon I work with a Syrian guy, he doesn't want to kill me...
 
12:20 AM
That makes 1-0 so far.
 
My collegue in grad school was (and still is) and immigrant from Iran. He's a great guy, did some nice projects with him involving processor hardware.
 
@Mikhail (TTBOYK)
 
@Mikhail Ask him if you were in Syria what your chances of not being killed were if you advertised the fact that your an American
 
@Mysticial 2-0
 
@johnathon high
 
12:21 AM
@johnathon Don't go to Syria. Problem solved.
 
He's damn glad he was in the US when Trump imposed the ban because he isn't citizen yet.
 
kidnapping for ransom is much more productive
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes then why should we let them come here?
 
jfc what is this jonathong
 
For the same reason you let Saudis.
 
12:22 AM
@johnathon Because the ones who are running away from the wars aren't usually the folks who want to take part in one?
 
@Puppy there's a flip side to that. Why should we (US AND BRITAIN) fight their wars for them?
 
economical war > physical war
 
@johnathon That is the hard question because I feel there is little motivation to let in unskilled refugees. But I got a bunch of C++ job vacancies I need to fill.
 
The logic is beautiful
 
12:23 AM
@johnathon Their wars?
Their wars?
From an American?
 
@johnathon We're not.
 
@Mikhail what location?
 
@johnathon Urbana-Champaign
 
@Puppy both of our countries has troops in the middle east
 
12:24 AM
> >our countries
> >has troops
 
@johnathon Britain has no combat deployments of British troops.
 
is this guy real or just a figment of collective projected lounge idiocy
 
air/drone strikes is the limit.
we finished pulling out of Afghanistan a year or two ago
 
After fighting the Afghani wars for them. Bunch of cowards, those Afghans.
 
those fuckers
 
12:26 AM
Afghanistan sounds like a cool place to retire
 
omg how did you switch to Syria
 
how did they have the nerve to be at-best-tangentially connected to a minor event of terrorism?
we must flatten their country now
anyway I have work tomorrow so goodnight
 
At least the United States make good use of their 600 billion dollar 32-NASA military budget, not like those Afghan cowards.
 
!!!THIS MAN'S SKIN TONE IS SLIGHTLY OFF-#FFFFFF!!!
 
@Puppy it takes more than just a guy behind a computer screen to carry those out, but you guys think what you want to. We shouldn't be fighting at all when there's able bodied individuals fleeing who are more than capable of being trained and deployed to defend their own country.
2
@Puppy and that's been the long term goal for a while, it's just not working really
 
12:27 AM
Yeah, fucking cowards.
 
xD what is this guy
 
@johnathon The Iraqis pretty much are mostly defending themselves. We support them a bit with air and training, that's it.
the Syrian guys don't really have a country to defend.
 
@Mikhail where all have you been looking for the job posts? Are you HR?
 
also it takes exactly one bloke behind a computer to carry out an air/drone strike
 
@Puppy Isn't the US supporting the ones that are against the country?
The "rebels" they call them.
 
12:28 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, I think so. Technically, anyway, I'm not really sure I'd call Assad "the country" anymore
more like, "the current possessor of parts of the remains of the country"
 
@Puppy last i checked we didn't support Assad, at least that's not what our media is telling us
 
@johnathon The company is three people. So, we used a recruiting services, although I suspect I can't speak openly about this issue. But yeah, getting a C++ developer is almost 2x what a kid writing python costs. Anyways, you can look me up LinkedIn if you want more info, etc.
 
@Puppy True, but he's the one that is unarguably on the defensive. It was his before the "rebels" and the other factions entered into conflict.
 
@johnathon Define "we"
 
@johnathon Right, so you're not supporting anyone that should be defending their country. You're supporting the ones attacking it.
 
12:30 AM
also I'd be much more worried about Chimerica's potential collapse were I you
 
@Puppy at least Assad has something like a country. the other "country" there is ISIS
 
@Mikhail that's true. Have you tried the Judge group? Their up in your area sort of and in a relatively good position to fill your positions. They typically staff larger companies though , I've a contact in their organization if you want it
 
Humans spark most US wildfires: study http://u.afp.com/4xNV
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Technically I support neither side. I'm just a spectator in the USA's dealings in the world, much like the rest of us in this room.
 
deport all humans!
 
12:33 AM
@johnathon "You" corresponding with your "we". No need to clarify that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes we being the USA, me being a citizen of that nation, we meaning US, meaning USA. I'm not a dignitary here so our 'official' stance is something i can only reiterate from our media.
 
@johnathon I know. When I said "you" I meant the same thing you meant with "we". Whatever it was. It wasn't personal.
 
@Mikhail it's 2:40 long
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes i never take any of this actually personal. Otherwise why would i come here with as negative as i'm perceived to be?
 
12:35 AM
@johnathon I dunno, you thought it important to explain who you support when we were discussing who the country you live in supports.
Seems like taking it personal to me. (You know, because it switches from a nation to a single person)
 
@Abyx Well here is a small part that deals with Russia, youtube.com/watch?v=-fny99f8amM&t=136m49s
 
@johnathon Maybe you're a masochist.
 
it's more of the point that there's so many people that think they know something that don't. They say I'm racist, when i'm not. They say trump's racist, which he could very well be, but i've not seen it. There's a sharp divide in the world and it's only getting worse, i don't like it. I didn't like Obama's policies at all, and still don't.
 
@johnathon Actually, you have at least once. You took offense to this message. You flagged and made a deal with sehe to remove the stars.
Feb 13 at 2:59, by sehe
ITT @johnathon is a muslim refugee
 
that I've a god given right to be, as I'm christian
i was born in the USA
 
12:39 AM
@johnathon Oh poor thing, you must be incredibly lucky in your consumption of news.
 
and part of my ancestery has been here before this country was a country.
 
this is the best comedy I've seen all bloody week
 
Never seen Trump's racism!
 
@johnathon which god tho
@johnathon oh golly you, you mist really be proud of yourself
 
Jesus christ, our lord and savior.
 
12:40 AM
your lord and saviour TYVM
 
our being "christian's"
 
@johnathon I was raised Christian, too, but I don't remember the part where I'm not supposed to get jokes.
 
Christian is a cool dude
granted, he can be pretty overactive at times but
 
I guess I'm a bad Christian.
 
wait is this dude from america why can't he write english lol
@R.MartinhoFernandes I thought you were Robor not Christian
 
12:42 AM
Fun fact: I'm a confirmed "soldier of Christ".
In Christianity, Confirmation is seen as the sealing of the covenant created in Holy Baptism. In some denominations, Confirmation also bestows full membership in a local congregation upon the recipient. In others, such as the Roman Catholic Church, Confirmation "renders the bond with the Church more perfect", because, while a baptized person is already a member, "reception of the sacrament of Confirmation is necessary for the completion of baptismal grace". Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox Churches, and many Anglicans view Confirmation as a sacrament. In the East it is conferred...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes you're a crusader
 
Deus bloody Vult
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh, how fun
 
brothers will get you when your country falls under the Sharia law
 
I manage to wriggle out of that part of my "christian education" thank all proverbial gods
alright time to invoke the holy war while we're at it: tabs vs spaces Marx vs Engels
 
12:46 AM
@набиячлэвэли Stalin.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes are you Catholic?
 
I was raised Catholic, yes.
 
@Abyx nice meme
 
Protestant
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I thought you were Christian? Did you change your name twice (Catholic -> Christian -> Robor)?
@johnathon I bet you weren't at any rallies in your bloody life
 
12:48 AM
Denominations is the different groups within the larger christian faith.
 
@набиячлэвэли that was a good one
 
@Abyx cheers, luv
you're not a true protestant unless you go to at least one rally
 
Describe a rally because I've a feeling they are called revivals here
 
you become a level 2 protestant when you apply for your very own permit
@johnathon Dude, you can do that?
o bloody hell and to think the scientific community at large is still struggling with reviving a single one-day-old corpse
 
12:51 AM
a revival is a religious gathering, typically week long camp etc. I think it's what your calling a rally
 
OH MY GOD HOW THICK IS THIS GUY I CAN'T ANYMORE
4
@johnathon Where are you from, fam
 
from fam?
 
there's a comma there ya biscuit
 
yes, but what does the fam part mean?
 
same thing as "mate" essentially
 
12:54 AM
ok. I'm from TN, I was born here. It's a land locked state in the middle southern portion of the USA.
 
Trinidad and Nobago.
 
TN = tenessee?
 
yes
 
I mean you're clearly from southern US
 
@набиячлэвэли Tennessee actually
 
12:56 AM
you've got the IQ of a Digestive
 
@набиячлэвэли my IQ is a lot higher than yours LOL
@набиячлэвэли I'll place money on that statement
 
I'm counting like three or four generations of in-breeding there
 
where are you from?
 
That's confidential, but I'll let you draw some language-based conclusions
 
0oh, Poland. no wonder.
 
12:58 AM
Let's keep the personal attacks under control and out of the chat room.
8
 
SOMEONE LEARNED TO CLICK TRIPLY NESTED LINKS :clap:
@JerryCoffin This is the first troll in a looong time I've been defeated by
 
@JerryCoffin I wasn't quite there yet, but Yes sir.
@Mikhail I'll ask on Linked in and FB if anyone knows of anyone up your way that needs work, what's the pay scale in actual numbers your looking at?
 
SO is down, what did you do?
 
@Mikhail and duration?
 
@johnathon Don't let yourself be attacked by known trolls such as @набиячлэвэли
 
1:03 AM
@Abyx I kicked the attack dogs out of here. They must have wondered down the hall to the server room.
 
@AldwinCheung the cavalry came
 
@AldwinCheung I can't really keep them from attacking me, but I do my best not to sink to that level. Ty though.
 
guess I can go sleep now
 
@Abyx Cacadi is a true inspiration, is he not?
 
@набиячлэвэли yeah she is
 
1:07 AM
Oh and if you're gonna personally attack each other, make sure it's about things that are voluntary. (like political views, choice of programming language, whether or not you like Haskell) But keep the involuntary stuff out of it. (race, gender, place of origin)
 
@Abyx you know you've been doing good work when aldwin finishes up with the double whammy
 
@Mysticial So when is your ryzen build going to be ready? :P
 
@Borgleader If my order arrives on or before Thursday. And the two local stores don't both sell out of either the CPU or the motherboard.
 
@Mysticial new AMD?
 
yeah
 
1:15 AM
@Mysticial Sick!
I expect a full set of benchmarks by the weekend ;)
 
i read that the newest iteration is surpassing intel, if so that's quite a milestone.
if you do any benchmarks would you link me?
 
My main worry are that my order won't arrive by Friday. Or that both stores sell out before I can get there Thursday night.
Because then I'll miss the weekend.
 
planning on doing the build over the weekend?
 
yeah
Most likely Thursday or Friday night.
 
well i'll keep my fingers crossed for you. I'd like to see how well the work out for you, do you have any intel hardware to do some comparisons with?
 
1:18 AM
Mainly my 5960X.
 
tbh i'm still running an now old 4790k
 
The first few weeks will be benchmarking it and figuring out how to overclock the thing. My experience with AMD overclocking is bad and I'm sure I'll have a lot of learning to do.
Then I need to optimize code the chip.
Afterwards, depending on whether it actually beats my 5960X at compiling code (since that's all that matters for me), I will switch over to the Zen box as my main machine.
 
I've not overclocked an amd in a long time, the last one i touched was the old 1ghz athlon's from the early 2000's
it took to it rather well though for the day
 
The 5960X will take over my other Haswell box as the main compute server. It will inherit the 16 hard drives and I'll probably put in an additional 8 because the mobo has the ports for it.
At which point, my 4770K will probably be retired. Or at least rarely used.
 
I've got this 4790k and I mostly game with this machine, though I love how fast it compiles code. I don't attribute that speed entirely to the CPU though, as its got a m2 drive as my main hard drive
 
1:22 AM
Though I'll be keeping it around for sandboxing and testing new software.
If you have enough ram, it won't matter too much whether your disk is slow.
 
32 gb
ddr 3 though
 
> We are currently offline for maintenance
darnit
 
which compilers do you use?
gcc was always real heavy on IO requests
 
GCC on Linux. MSVC + ICC on Windows.
If you have enough ram, the OS will buffer it.
 
yea, gcc on windows has traditionally been a bit slower because of how windows file system handles the io requests. I've not noticed much of a difference between msvc and gcc with this drive though. I've gobs of ram too so that very well may be mitigating any IO problems.
 
1:27 AM
GCC on Windows is unusable for me because they still haven't fixed the AVX stack alignment problem after 6? years now?
 
I know of more than one engineering firm in the aerospace industry that uses GCC as it's compiler for windows
 
@thecoshman Looks like I have a new favorite website
 
I'm not familiar with that error, so IDK.
have you reported it?
 
They "claim" that it's unfixable. And yet they are "baffled" by how MSVC and ICC do it.
 
clang/LLVM?
 
1:33 AM
IOW, there aren't enough GCC devs who are willing and are familiar enough with Windows to do it.
ICC does it by reserving an extra stack-pointer register r13 to point to an aligned location to spill vector registers.
MSVC does the same using a different register.
But I don't remember if they actually use a separate register, or they just align rbp.
The alignment thing that they are complaining about which "makes it impossible" I believe only applies to rsp.
 
I wanted to switch to LLVM because they have shiny C++ things (like structured bindings), but I'm not sure about their auto-vectorization. Any experience?
 
@Mysticial what's even funny about that is that the x86 and x64 backends are maintained by intel devs.
@Mysticial or at least was at one point in time
 
@Mikhail lol hoping that your compiler can auto-vectorize anything but the most trivial of loops
 
@AldwinCheung I do image processing :-)
 
@Mysticial let me try this with the latest buld.
 
1:44 AM
Hi, I'm Tom. I was instruction set architect on the Knights/Xeon Phi line. It always takes me 8 tries to get pointe… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/836273685157691393
/cc @Mysticial
 
hehe
 
When are we getting a small vector class in MSVC?
 
@Mikhail We won't. MSVC doesn't care about HPC. And my feeling is that they won't support AVX512 in their compiler for a very long time (if ever).
 
Small vectors are frequently used in GUI applications
 

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