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user406009
6:00 PM
@Ell The visitor pattern has it's place. Built in language pattern matching tends to be better than it in every way IMHO.
 
@KhaledKhnifer At which point, you've limited the capabilities substantially (e.g., basic recursive descent parsing wouldn't be possible).
 
user406009
It would be nice if C++ had some pattern matching stuff, but it's probably too late to do it well by now.
 
@ThePhD what @Jerry said. think something like using shape = variant<line,circle>; intersect(shape, shape); and dispatching to intersect(line, circle)
 
@ThePhD Sure--free function, but you want it virtual on two parameters, so ball:wall reacts one way, bullet:wall a second, and bullet:ball (potentially) a third.
 
user406009
@JerryCoffin People have created non-turing complete languages that you can verify a halting nature.
 
6:01 PM
Isn't... that what a base class is for?
 
user406009
The main thing is you need limits.
 
user406009
And you could trivially prove a recursive descent parser halts if it keeps on consuming input characters at each step.
 
@JerryCoffin you can define recursive routines using loops, my proposed structure would eliminate function call loops.
 
user1804599
@ThePhD Base classes work fine iff you have a fixed set of operations and you are going to add many many types.
 
user1804599
If you don't have that (which is more common), base classes are annoying. This is why OOP generally sucks.
 
6:02 PM
Hrm.
I guess I see the appeal.
 
in c++, we have a library for making some limits like:
lim(x->(infinity)) X²+4 ?
 
and being able to operate on unrelated types is p nice
 
@Lalaland Sure, you can do it--and you can even maintain a reasonable level of functionality--but if you make it non-Turing complete, you've clearly prevented it from doing at least a few things that something that is Turing complete can do.
 
user1804599
@Jean-philippeEmond What do you mean by "making some limits"? Those limits already exist. You can't "make" them.
 
@Lalaland Yes, you can (but this is an entirely different sort of approach from what Khaled was talking about).
 
6:04 PM
@MadameElyse Evaluate the limit when...
 
user1804599
Ah, evaluation.
 
user406009
@JerryCoffin It's the same fundamental idea. You can only call functions of a lower "degree", but you count the parameters when computing the "degree".
 
user1804599
You're looking for a computer algebra system.
 
user1804599
Any reason you want to do it in C++ instead of e.g. Mathematica?
 
it is just because I build a software in C++ with dll, and I just want to know if It is possible to add into my software this features
 
6:06 PM
@MadameElyse As usual for discussions of the problems with OOP, you point to one problem, and say "that's it". The reality is that OOP has many problems, no one of which fully explains the shortcomings of the whole.
 
user1804599
2
Q: What is the best approach to calculating function limits?

TibiI am planning to develop an application that can calculate the limit of an expression (function) given by the user. I already have a functional expression evaluator, which will definitely come in handy. My idea is to calculate it like this: I give the parameter a few values that get closer and c...

 
@Jean-philippeEmond Yes, it's possible. But also yes, it's an extremely large, difficult problem (Mathematica and Maple both do it, but both are very large and complex).
 
user1804599
Btw if you don't mind having large dependencies, you could use Python from C++. I'm pretty sure Sage (a Python library) can do this. sagemath.org/calctut/limits.html
 
@MadameElyse can I make a dll with python api? or I need to add it like a plug-in?
 
user1804599
Sure.
 
user406009
6:10 PM
@Jean-philippeEmond There are two main ways to do it. One would be to create a python process using exec() and then shuttle data back and forth using stdin/stdout/whatever.
 
user406009
The other (suckier) way is to use the CPython API to directly try to call the function.
 
user1804599
Don't use the C API, use github.com/wjakob/pybind11
 
@Lalaland It doesn't seem like the same basic idea to me, but such is life, I guess.
 
ho.. I'll read about it. really helpfully :P

thanks @Lalaland @JerryCoffin and @MadameElyse for your help.

I'll read about it and looking about your solution.

thanks!
 
is it possible to compile a python program?
 
user406009
6:15 PM
@KhaledKhnifer Why would you want to do that?
 
user406009
JITs are reasonably effective for dynamic programming languages.
 
user1804599
@KhaledKhnifer The first thing python does when you give it a Python program is compiling the Python program, so yes, it is possible.
 
user1804599
Proof by example!
 
@Lalaland I was thinking of compiled library.
 
user1804599
A compiler is simply a program that takes code in one language and emits code in another language.
 
6:16 PM
@KhaledKhnifer Surely--virtually every implementation of Python of which I'm aware compiles to some form of intermediate code, then interprets that. I'm not aware of any that interprets the source code directly. If you mean compile to machine code, yes, still possible--but likely to introduce fairly high cost and produce minimal gain.
 
user406009
pypy.org is the primarily Python JIT.
 
it wouldn't be portable, I think a python script file, then calling it and reading its stdout; would be a better way
 
user406009
Darn, I really wish we had reflection in C++ already. I really miss being able to iterate over all the members of class like in Java or JavaScript.
 
steam sale!!!
 
user1804599
6:32 PM
eww runtime reflection
 
user406009
@AlexM. Hmm, XCOM is really cheap.
 
user406009
Somewhat tempting.
 
Xeo
cat.
 
Good evening, is there way to make Visual Studio installation a bit more lightweight? I have unselected all extra stuff, but it's still 6gb, takes forever to install. I am a beginner, trying to learn c++.
 
6:43 PM
you can probably just install the vc compiler and use your own editor
google "installing visual C++ compiler only"
but if you go there just look at mingw and use gcc is what I say
nothing nice on steam for me
but EA has a sale on gog so I'll buy there
 
user406009
@Muhammet The most lightweight/simplest/easiest to use C++ IDE is probably code::blocks.
 
user406009
 
Thank you, I just looked at mingw + Eclipse CDT. Couldn't find offline installer for mingw.
 
user406009
codeblocks has some nice all-inclusive installers.
 
@Lalaland I used it for sometime before, but after reading everyone saying VS is best wanted to try that.
 
6:47 PM
naa vs is pretty big just for C++ I wouldn't use it
at home that is
 
yeah seems too big.
is there alternative to mingw?
which has offline installer
 
my home C++ use is only solving problems on some sites so I only work with 1 file at a time
use code blocks like lalaland said
 
Thanks, will use CodeBlocks. Also I have Data Structures and Algorithms course next semester and want to prepare for that (in c++). Should I learn C++ first (I know a bit) or find DSA course and learn from there?
 
it doesn't matter because those courses are organized in such a way that complete beginners to both will still be able to cope
 
I see, I think c++ tutorials cover most part of DSA courses too (like arrays, pointers etc)
 
6:51 PM
@Muhammet Who in the world said VS was the best? I use it all the time, but I can hardly imagine using the word "best" to describe it. "Best" is a degree of "good", and even being as kind as I can to VS, it's merely the least awful of a bunch of lousy alternatives. And no, I'm not channeling cat or something--IDEs are almost universally a mess.
 
user406009
@Muhammet Regardless, don't expect to learn a sufficient amount of C++ from your course. Your course will likely only cover the basics.
 
Use Sublime Text 3 if you want an "IDE"
 
@JerryCoffin read somewhere on stackoverflow, but thank you for clarification.
 
There is no best in general, VS is designed for Microsoft technologies.. if all you care about is writing code & compiling it in C++, you can use an editor, there are even editors that has plugins that compile & run the file for you, ..etc
 
@Lalaland Understood, thank you.
 
6:56 PM
@Lalaland I think I'm going to have to start teaching a C++ course. Perhaps title it "Intermediate C++ for anally retentive pedants"...
 
@набиячлэвэлиь I have sublime text 3, but I think dedicated IDE will be better for me (since I am a beginner)
 
@Lalaland if that.
 
@KhaledKhnifer yes only school assignments etc.
Chose NetBeans, CodeBlocks download page seems to be down. Thank you all.
 
user406009
@Muhammet Eh. For Java that is definitely true. For C++, maybe not as necessary.
 
user406009
(Well, it sorta depends on if you are on a Unix or on Windows. For Windows the IDEs are a lot more helpful)
 
7:01 PM
Yes, I am on Windows :)
 
user406009
Nevermind then.
 
Thanks again.
 
@Muhammet go with C\C++ NetBeans
 
@Muhammet Hmm....this sounds like you started by asking what's the best car available today. Argument between Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Porsche, Ferrari, etc., ensues. Then you come back with: "Oh, never mind: a found somebody selling a Geo Metro that's been run over by a monster truck, but there seems to be some chance that with a lot of work, it might sort of work again, so I'm going to get that."
 
user406009
@JerryCoffin Yeah. And that logic would make sense if cars were free and you really need to go somewhere.
 
7:15 PM
@Lalaland The point is, he started out asking what's the best (or at least what's really good) then turned around chose...pretty much the worst possible. And yes, in the case of cars there can be an economic incentive in that direction, but in this case there's really not.
 
I suggested NetBeans because it is user-friendly, has intellisense & auto-complete, doesn't require configuration to get its basic functionality to work for a beginner
 
@MadameElyse lol
 
@KhaledKhnifer Well, it is packaged well enough that it at least installs easily and most stuff works immediately after you install it, that much is true.
 
7:32 PM
"the body of research that supports the 10x claim is as solid as any research that’s been done in software engineering" - yes, it really is that bad. :) — user4051 Jan 5 '13 at 12:35
That about sums it up for me
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin that isn't what I mean - I mean there is some bijection function f : N -> function where you can enumerate all possible functions from 0 -> infinity
 
@sehe someone linked a video recently where the speaker said essentially the same thing. He claimed it was done like in a weekend with very few people or wtv.
 
7:48 PM
@Ell are you looking for homset of (0, +inf)?
 
Ell
that depends
what is a homset? :P
I'm just saying that I don't think functions are countable
 
homset(a, b) just denotes a set of functions from a to b
 
Ell
Oh right
I was just saying there isn't a bijective function from the natural numbers to all of the functions
which means that functions are not countable
Am I wrong?
also
the hype is real
 
@Borgleader Oh well. Many claims. I think the whole point is "there's the people that get it and those who never will" and "there's go-getters and followers". All of that is hardly newsworthy. Of course, peeps on the crossroads of both peak lines will be noticibly more productive. But a lot of it depends on contexts too (give a good guy a lousy job ...)
 
@Ell that depends on what functions you mean; you can still take an infinite subset from nats and for it to be countable
 
Ell
7:52 PM
@ScarletAmaranth just "all functions" :P
 
@Ell "all functions" sure not; but it doesn't make much sense to ask this question for "all functions"
as soon as you can show there is an uncountable subset (at least one), then the "whole thing" cannot be countable
 
Ell
@ScarletAmaranth it was really a misunderstanding
 
6 messages moved to bin
 
lol
 
cleanup on aisle three
 
7:54 PM
@Ell ok I may be a bit out of context, sorry
 
Ell
jerry said all functions are countable but I misunderstood what he meant by "countable" :)
 
Make puppy SO mod and the site will be clean of shit in about 5 minutes.
 
@Ell there is just one notion of "countable" so you were totally right to assume that :P
@trilolil HAHAHAHAH
@trilolil AHAHAHAAHAH
 
I highly doubt that
 
@ScarletAmaranth please don't feed the trolls.
 
7:59 PM
@sehe I'd just kick him repeatedly at this point vOv
 
That would be better already, but still very unproductive
 
Oh damn...
I wonder what vcore they had to give it.
 
@Mysticial 7volts (jk)
 
what should do when I notice type of situation ? — Prafulla Kumar Sahu yesterday
:drama:
You could eat some ice cream, for example. Or enjoy a brisk walk in the sun. :) Seriously though - I don't think there is anything we can do, apart from asking the asker to change their check mark (but usually in these types of situations that has already happened.) — Pekka 웃 yesterday
:apt-responses:
 
8:03 PM
my google play download is capped at 300 kbytesps ffff
 
very good. More time to eat pizaa
 
tho it sits at 200 most of the time
 
ooooh. #offensive
I fully expect your solid answer now that this was unaccepted :) Mind you, it can be done like I sketched, but it would neither answer the question as posed, neither am I in the mood to implement it — sehe 28 secs ago
:having-myself-my-own-litte-drama:
 
@sehe I don't know why, but I think you might like this.
 
you know I'm kind of disappointed in how google play handles selling music
slow download, max 100 songs/download unless you use their shady client
 
user1804599
8:13 PM
@sehe #ophef
 
at least it sounds good and has proper tags
 
Ell
> encapsulation = getters and setters + data hiding
cmon man
 
@EtiennedeMartel He seems like a cool guy
 
I'm going to show you the best thing that you can buy at KFC
it's delicious
I have one here yum
 
you are a bad person
Showing yummy things like that when our guard is low
You should mark that as NSFHungryPeople
 
8:29 PM
does cake affect you when you're hungry?
if I'm hungry sweets have no effect because I can't eat sweets unless I'm already unhungry
 
No, I was just trying to come up with the new term NSFHP. I just fit the context as much as I could.
 
need speed for hot pursuit
it actually makes sense!
 
Once you try "Not a hero" let me know what you think of it
 
I don't know why, but I think you're right
Compensated a bit by me thinking he overcomplicates things (but it could be me undercomplicating)
 
@Shoe -60% I'll probably buy it this weekend
 
8:31 PM
wait
-60% discount or -60% chance?
 
discount
 
motherfuckers
 
rekt
 
I bought it yesterday
 
lesson one of PC gaming
DO NOT BUY GAMES UNLESS <9 EUR
and at a discount
 
8:32 PM
:c
 
I'll see I already bought two games and some music not sure I should spend more on stuff like this this month
now that I track expenses every expense hurts
 
$3 for hotline miami
Wow
 
@Shoe if it's on steam you can ask for a refund if < 2 hours played
or maybe ask for a refund because of the sale maybe they'll refund
so you can buy again
 
@AlexM. 4 hours
 
try asking for a refund anyway
 
8:45 PM
Nah, it's fine.
I'm ok with giving those money to the developers and steam
 
> We do not consider it abuse to request a refund on a title that was purchased just before a sale and then immediately rebuying that title for the sale price.
 
I don't buy many games anyway
 
for some reason...all my dead keys suddenly started not being dead and instead acting like I pressed them twice. At first I thought it was a new feature on SO, inserting two "``" :p
 
@AlexM. Well, I'll try then
 
yea fuk the devs :A:A:A:
JK
do it
 
8:46 PM
@AlexM. Where is that from?
 
steam's faq
 
do you have a link at hand?
 
press ctrl + shift + t
no wait I have to do that
at the bottom
ask them to just refund you the price difference if you want, easier than re-buying
every refund request is reviewed by a human
 
shit
Will I loose all my achievements?
 
no
no history is lost
 
8:50 PM
They say they will remove my game from the library
 
your library != history m8
the game will still appear in your play log
with your achievements and all
THERE IS A FAQ FOR THIS YOU KNOW
I think the FAQ shows up when you start your request or sth
 
Let's see how that goes
I'm curious
 
probably well
at least you like the game
 
I do
 
I wanted to refund teso but they didn't take it because 1 hour too many
 
8:54 PM
It's a little bit short now that I think about it
 
lost 50 eur or w/e it was
probably not 50 eur
 
In 4 hours I'm at 60% of the progress
 
I'm not crazy
 
With A+ like results
 
they refunded neo scavenger tho
 
Ven
8:55 PM
yo.
I'm at the train station.
 
@AlexM. you bought teso? :(
 
yep I thought it would be cool but it's a shell of a game
the plan was to choose between it and FF but I played it 1 hour too long
 
I'm thinking that maybe the discount refund refers to when that specific game only gets a refund. Not when it's part of a discount group or period
 
it's fine
I still find it funny how quickly you changed your mind tho
15 mins ago, by Shoe
I'm ok with giving those money to the developers and steam
 
I'm just curious
 
9:00 PM
14 mins ago, by Shoe
@AlexM. Well, I'll try then
 
I honestly don't mind
Didn't know about the discount refund thingy
Of course €7 are something (approximately 1 liter of beer), but I'm more curious about the new refund process.
Since you have to specify the "Now it costs less" reason, I wonder if they'll just automatically buy the discounted version and give me a refund on the difference, or if they'll just refund it all back and trust that I buy the new version.
 
why don't you just tell us when you get the answer
 
> If you have bought it outside the 14days/2 hours played threshold, be prepared for them to refuse it.
I guess I won't find out
 
Ven
@Shoe a LITER? Oo
@AlexM. FF14 was much better than TESO
 
yes
but the lore was so
 
Ven
9:06 PM
TESO was reaaaally bad. Bad combats, no actual content, bugs everywhere
I stopped FF14 because no pvp
 
I can't take the FF lore srsly
to this day only WoW managed to balance everything properly :<
great lore great game
 
Ven
...which is why I still play wow in 2016 :x. I admit it has tons of bad things, but I can't find a superior MMO
 
yes, but that's not a fundamentally compelling argument
it's like saying, "I eat my own shit because nobody else's shit tastes better than mine!"
 
Ven
of course it isn't. which is why I'd like to play a good mmo instead
it's instead like saying "I eat my own shit because there's nothing else that's better"
 
@AlexM. I really like your avatar
Is the identicon in the avatar the one that would actually appear by default?
 
9:13 PM
@Ven You could just eat things that are not shit
 
Ven
@Puppy I can't find any.
 
Kerbal Space Program
Faster Than Light
 
@Shoe nah I tried to use mine but it was generated at 128x128 or something like that and there was no way to regenerate it
it's an identicon that I found on the web
 
Starbound
 
@AlexM. erm
 
9:13 PM
lame I know but nobody knows
 
recently I've really been enjoying me some Left 4 Dead 2 as well
 
 
does that generate me another identicon?
seems I already have a gravatar account
 
lol
 
yay hyun-ae
 
9:16 PM
yes that VN tells the future of north korea
 
I still have the picture of the cake
 
me too
ain't showin it
but I got the achievement
 
Ven
@Puppy those are not "my" kind of game. I don't really enjoy them. Right now I'm playing skyrim – which is very nice
 
function! RelaunchVim()
    silent! exec '!(sleep 3; gvim -S ' . v:this_session . ')&'
    qa
endfunction
quite nifty when tinkering with vim setups
 
it was a nice experience
especially because of the cake thing
but at the end you kinda realize
it was a SJW experiment or sth
 
user1804599
9:19 PM
yay my compiler optimizes (x) to x. :D
 
no way
 
user1804599
uncatValueExpr (CatValueExpr [v]) = uncatValueExpr v
uncatValueExpr (CatValueExpr vs) = CatValueExpr (map uncatValueExpr vs)
 
@Ven Skyrim is pretty awful, really.
 
@Puppy open world syndrome; sack everything for the sake of open worldedness
 
I found out who the hot korean singer from the gif I posted days ago is en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yura_%28South_Korean_singer%29
> Kim Ah-young
but it gets better, her co-singer is
 
9:23 PM
@ScarletAmaranth Like any sense of direction, pacing, motivation, balance and scale, UI design, etc.
 
@Puppy game mechanics, combat system, progression... :)
 
yep
 
@AlexM. Even so I'd prefer SJWs start making games instead of raging about them :D
 
user1804599
SJW games sound awful.
 
better than LJN
 
9:28 PM
hmmm
 
Ven
@Puppy my tastes > your tastes
 
I'm really tempted by the Dell XPS 15
but they have such shitty things around it
like 12 months of McAffee shit, can't opt out
 
just format it and when you have to use the warranty reinstall the original OS?
 
I'd like the money back, rather than paying for an unused feature
 
nuke it and don't worry about manufacturer "accidentally" adding their own Root CA
that's not how it works
 
9:31 PM
probably not
but I whined on Twitter anyway
may as well make my displeasure at least theoretically visible
 
You won't get money back because McAffee and others put their shit there to make muggles prolong the license instead of buying alternatives or downloading free antiviruses.
IOW it's a bait
 
pfft
as if I'd be stupid enough to actually run any antivirus
they're nothing but bloatware
 
as expected from not-a-muggle
 
they can't protect you from anything and make your PC run like it's a fat man who broke his kneecaps
 
user1804599
I'm not happy. :(
 
9:35 PM
so nuke it
 
What the fuck?
27
Q: How to become president of the United States of America

GamowThere are three well-known requirements for an individual to become president of the United States. to be a natural born U.S. citizen; to be at least 35 years of age; to have lived in the United States for at least 14 years. But once an indiviudal has been elected, there actually is a secr...

 
nice puzzle
 
user1804599
@Mysticial What is "What the fuck?" about it?
 
@milleniumbug I can nuke it, I just don't want to pay money for a thing I'm gonna nuke
 
user1804599
You can find the answer that doesn't contradict any of the others.
 
user1804599
9:38 PM
Through beam search.
 
@Puppy You're not paying because the price is not raised.
FWIW the price could be lowered
 
lol
 
Ven
@MadameElyse I can't remember the syntax in LS to have a keyless a become a:a in an implicit object :[
 
user1804599
Me neither. It's terrible anyway.
 
user1804599
Fuck LiveScript.
 
user1804599
9:47 PM
Use Grass.
 
user1804599
9:58 PM
@Mysticial A can't be true, because it contradicts with B. B can't be true, because it contradicts with C (which contradicts with A). D is false, because neither A nor B nor C is true. F is false, since E is true.
 

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