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5:00 AM
@ThePhD upsubbed
@CatPlusPlus W10?
 
and now I can't find that article on which compilers define which preprocessor macros
 
@CatPlusPlus I have the same issue
 
"predefined macros" inurl:sourceforge
 
Well I have MSVC2013 installed, if you want me to check something quick...
 
5:02 AM
 
@CatPlusPlus wow, at least I have broadcom+Ubuntu as an excuse
 
_MSC_VER is supposed to be present for only VC++, and it holds the version number
 
Not only it's hard as fuck to actually hibernate this system due to broken wake timer handling, it breaks 30% of the time after unhibernating anyway requiring a restart
Fucking annoying bullshit
 
@LucDanton is there a reason you make canonical_recipe complete?
 
user406009
Why even bother hibernating then?
 
5:04 AM
MSVC says #define _MSC_VER 1800
 
The other day I hibernated it and when I came back the laptop was a) not hibernated b) hot as f
 
it wasn't on sourceforge though
 
Because it's still less disruptive than shutting down
 
#define _MSC_VER INCURABLE_DISEASE
8
 
@Rapptz nicer SFINAE
 
5:05 AM
afternoon naptime /cc @Borgleader @ElimGarak @TonyTheLion @ThePhD @Xeo @набиячлэвэлиь
 
Hm.
 
I also like to leave the option to carry TMP types around as tags open
 
@HubertApplebaum Gotta go through all scheduled tasks and disable 'allow wake', then look at what shitty software registers wake timers and just shut it down before hibernating
This list includes Spotify and VirtualBox so far
 
I have no nice way to check if it's specialised.
 
yeah, explicit spec is supposed to be transparent (to an extent)
 
5:06 AM
only way I can think of is if I make it incomplete and check if it's complete but that's kinda ugly
 
Also fucking middle clicks register twice sometimes
 
@Rapptz leave it complete with using is_unspecialized = detail::fuck_off_dear_clients; or whatever tricks
 
Also there's some annoying inventory refresh scheduled task that I can't find
Fucking broken black boxes
So annoying
 
@LucDanton it's not to hurt them :3
 
user406009
5:09 AM
@CatPlusPlus You can try the other route and see if you can make restarts less painful. Stuff like an SSD, restore tab functionality for your browser, project settings, etc, etc.
 
@LucDanton lmao
 
It's not about speed
 
Then why are we in the C++ chat?
 
I'm not sure why it's bad :v
enlighten me friend-os
> Raw loops vs. STL algorithms (meetingcpp.com)
 
2006, 2016, C++ users discussing the same things
 
5:11 AM
1996
1986
before then no C++
 
106 same old shit
 
Battle of Hastings, almost
 
AAA argument in this article's comments.
@LucDanton why is it bad though
 
gimme 30 mins
 
ok
 
is this the "why is ADL bad" conversation?
 
@Rapptz lol
 
@jaggedSpire no
 
oh good I was concerned for a sec
 
I want to detect if a template is specialized but apparently that might be bad so I'm curious.
 
5:18 AM
@jaggedSpire It's too obvious to talk about
 
beyond the part where that's an implementation detail
neato, I'll need to remember to look at this conversation later
 
> Regardless of what you think about in-place range-for's proposed syntax, I was trying to solve real correctness/performance problems. Unfortunately, I discovered that people are distracted by syntax to the point of ignoring safety issues. And that's why you can't have nice things.
 
syntax is the most important thing if its ugly then its bad~~~
 
he's romanticizing it
 
where the fuck is network-scripts on centos jfc
god
oh sysconfig
 
5:22 AM
the syntax was confusing because people thought it was confusing wrt scope
 
user406009
Can't people just learn to use auto&& in their ranged for loops?
 
Is it easier to teach the compiler to suck less?
 
user406009
Seems like a simple problem easily solvable with compiler warnings/linters.
 
Experts only™
 
5:25 AM
You can judge the quality of the code based on the number of ampersands?
 
or stars
 
Sorry, thats not C++
 
user406009
@Mikhail The true judge of quality is the number of $ signs. Why else would PHP be so popular?
 
Is there anyways to ask my compile to nag less? I made 1 small mistake & my compiler complained about it 8 times!
 
user406009
Also, jQuery.
 
5:27 AM
std::money
 
people are dumb
2
 
thank Cat for simple true facts
 
@TelkittytheWebDeveloper -Wall -Wextra -Wpedantic -Werror
 
k I’m done gorging myself
 
5:27 AM
-Whine
 
@Rapptz I don’t consider it bad (ya gotta stop doing this friend)
 
friend please
 
it’s a personal preference re: errors and disentangling compiler instantiation stack etc.
 
friends
 
I was clenching my butt cheeks in anticipation
 
5:28 AM
once you fix those problems it shouldn't nag you about anything
 
user406009
@TelkittytheWebDeveloper Seems like you need a tool like github.com/ajalt/fuckitpy
 
@Lalaland oh wow
 
@Rapptz well the point of specializations is usually to be 'spliced' and interchangeably be used, just with appropriate information
so yeah detecting specialization can certainly merit a raised, quizzical eyebrow
and yeah I’ve done it in the same exact context (but for Lua)
 
On Error Resume Next
 
user406009
5:32 AM
Seems like we have an opportunity for fuckit.cpp
 
user406009
Totally necessary for all the shitty code I post on corilu.
 
@LucDanton you make a lua wrapper?
 
@Rapptz yes, no, maybe—what’s a lua wrapper to you?
it’s more like a more C++-ish API
 
something like luabind, sol, etc
 
@Rapptz it grew out of my frustrations with luabind (looooong compile-times for the most part) but it’s not like it
I’ve always used luabind to marshall to and from Lua, not do the whole Boost.Python-style binding
 
5:35 AM
ah
 
@LucDanton why don't use use sol friend
 
@HubertApplebaum it didn’t exist at the time
 
auto vs tabs
@LucDanton weak excuse
 
@HubertApplebaum I only use time travel to return library books
 
kek
and with that I need to go to bed.
as I'm sure you all desperately wished to know
 
5:39 AM
@Rapptz the yes/maybe part is that once you have a C++-ish API for lua you can write things like metatable(thing)["foo"] = foo etc. anyway, not that it was an entirely purposeful goal
 
I made sol so I can use lua for config files
 
yeah same motivation (mostly)
 
lol rly
 
ye lua's handy for config
 
@jaggedSpire Nini
@jaggedSpire sleep tight
 
5:40 AM
lua vs json
 
Don't let the red pandas bite.
 
@jag night
 
JSON didn’t exist at the time
 
JSON doesn't have functions
 
functions in config files seriously
 
5:41 AM
ye m8
JSON doesn't have comments either
 
@HubertApplebaum hence the 'mostly'
it’s scripting, plain and simple
 
can I see what your files look like
 
but scripting that hands off data, not the kind of scripting that sets up callbacks and intertwine the two parts of the program etc. (not that there’s anything wrong with that)
@HubertApplebaum the Lua or the C++ side?
cus the Lua it’s all tables (duh)
the C++ side it’s struct bundle { int number_of_teeth; }; and auto config = from<bundle>(L);
does that look familiar or what
 
@LucDanton everything
send me the codes
 
naw
 
5:46 AM
it was an joke
the lua obv
@LucDanton yeah that's what I currently do from the jason
except with the silly parse thing because you guys can't come up with a decent but meh json lib unless I complain
 
the Lua computes/fills tables and does return result;
 
seems very sophisticated
 
I also tried a 'clever' style where you wrote your config bundle { number_of_teeth = 4 }, then you put a bundle function in the environment when you run the config
it’s cute
 
you're cute
 
@HubertApplebaum I'm going to purposely make this not compile in VS2013 nerd
 
5:48 AM
I really really really hate config files with logic
 
I like you
@Rapptz unstarred
well that'll motivate me to move to 2015
not
 
I actually don't know if it compiles there
does constexpr pseudo-work there at least
 
@CatPlusPlus I wouldn’t have done it if I didn’t like Lua sandboxing
 
It's not really about sandboxing, but interop and programmatic manipulation
 
@Rapptz lol
 
5:50 AM
the debug hooks can squash computation enough that I’m okay with it
 
is that a no
 
again though, I do it for scripting
 
the only computations I care about in conf files is mostly expanding env vars
@Rapptz what do you think (are we still talking 2013?)
 
meh
not even pseudo-work?
like the non-function case?
 
constexpr?
 
5:52 AM
yeah
 
it works if you #DEFINE constexpr
the end
 
not the same semantics
but okay
 
@HubertApplebaum Honestly if I'm going with env vars then there's no config file
Environment config is good for services, but not so much for tools
 
right now where I am people do things like log_file=$(HOME)/whatever/$(THIS_APP_NAME)/log_$(DATE).log (in a .ini) essentially
 
For services I just have LOG_FILE variable and then whatever can fill it with whatever and however
Also containerisation friendly
 
5:54 AM
Fuck, I decided to refactor all of my code a before a critical experiment. Which illness should I fake?
 
Programming
 
"stupidity"
ugg, all these cow embryos will die if I don't get my shit straight before 8:00am tommrow
 
its like caviar, but made from cows
 
Put ketchup on it
 
5:56 AM
does it taste the same
 
Human cells are fed something called FBS (fetal bovine serum), which is harvested from cow embryos. So, human cells are fed cow fetus blood.
Shit is expensive, like 500 USD for a few cups
 
> RTNETLINK answers: No such process
what is going onnnnnnnn
 
you have to recompile your kernel
 
50% chance this will solve the problem
(0.5)^n where n is the number of kernel recompiles
 
@Mikhail Is that shit or piss? It looks a lot more like piss to me.
 
6:14 AM
TIL ssh can recover from service network reload
 
That doesn't reset the network stack
You'd only lose connections if kernel would drop the TCP state
It's only dangerous because if you misconfigure something and iface goes down you can't up it back :v
 
iface uncertainty
 
progress I guess
 
also sigh nothing works
 
6:19 AM
Buh....
Fucking
So nonius uses more than math
it uses algorithm/string too.
 
> Shutting down interface eth0: Write failed: Broken pipe
 
Jesus
 
oops @Cat
 
Fuckin'
 
6:22 AM
@ThePhD he says this
in the docs
which I think you didn't read
 
Maybe it managed to go up anyway
Try reconnecting
 
> The library depends on Boost for a few mathematical functions, for some string algorithms, and, in some versions of VC++, for the timing functions as well. Boost.Chrono is not a header-only library, but since it is only used with VC++ everything gets linked automatically without intervention. If desired, usage of Boost.Chrono can be forced by #defining the macro NONIUS_USE_BOOST_CHRONO.
 
If not then ~console time~
 
yeah it's up idk why it dced
 
"A few mathematical functions, some string algorithms"
 
6:23 AM
I'm not even touching the iface from which I connect
 
RIP I didn't take t literally
 
Nothing works
I'm going to throw myself out the window
 
good
 
nothing works at all
not even the configuration makes sense
also jfc why do I have to deal with network config
help
can I wipe my butt with my keyboard yes
^CSent 1222 probes (1222 broadcast(s))
Received 0 response(s)
kill me
> TIL: Gay Turkish men can avoid military service by providing photographs of themselves having sex. But only if they are the passive partner, and their face is clearly visible in the photo.
what
maybe if I browse reddit long enough the problems will fix themselves
now I wanna be a gay turkish soldier
 
Woop woop Docker got user namespaces in stable
 
6:37 AM
I don't know what that means
someone entertain me
throws bacon
 
int main() {
    try {
        json::value v = json::parse(R"([1, 2, "hello", 3, 4, 5, 6])");
        auto&& r = json::from_json<std::vector<int>>(v);
    }
    catch(const json::error& e) {
        std::cerr << e.what() << '\n';
        // in array element 2: expected a(n) number, received a(n) string instead
    }
}
is this a good error y/n
 
lol puttin the catch on its own line
downstarred
otherwise it's neat yeah
I needed that
 
:ok:
 
(the std::vector<int> part)
 
effort
 
6:40 AM
just to be sure 255.255.255.128 is a netmask of 25 y/n
 
@Rapptz good enough yeah
s/in/at/ mebbe? super important change obv.
 
I do hope you have all those error bits available and not just what()
 
I don't
 
Also 'a(n)' kinda looks sillier than just skipping the article
 
who put that in there
 
6:42 AM
@Rapptz tsk tsk
 
an number
 
I don't think it's possible cause the error kinda builds on itself
 
If it's possible to have a formatted message it's possible to have useful unformatted information
 
it is, but why support that?
if you want to perform a custom action then you don’t want to use the canonical schema, you want to do your own fiddling
 
@LucDanton Maybe you want to format the error differently
 
6:46 AM
this is effort
 
@HubertApplebaum I’m sorry but you have come up with a valid argument, you’ll have to try a new joke
 
T_T
 
@LucDanton now I'm 100% genuinely confused
I was serious lol
 
all this talk about format is making me want to format my own sandwich
 
happens once every 2 years I know
 
6:47 AM
I know, and it’s so good an argument I was mock pretending you were attempting a joke
 
Ok, that's how I interpreted it
toometa
 
@Rapptz can’t blame me this time
 
Honestly the what() and whatever other 'formatted message blob' things on exceptions should be gone
 
it’s interesting because in my own code I do carry some information, but just one 'level'
 
Even if you're just logging errors and not doing anything with them it's better to have full structure
 
6:48 AM
in fact you could do plenty other things with that information
eg, remove the element at index <problematic> or whatever
 
@CatPlusPlus only thing that bugs me is that it’s not an 'instead' proposition
 
Sure you can have both
But I consider the formatted one optional
 
yeah I can build up the structure in an actual data thing, and I’ll also have the code to immediately process it into a string (as I’m doing rn)
and… then I’ll never use the structure ever again
@CatPlusPlus the message has genuinely been useful so far
and it’s definitively a motivating feature to me
@HubertApplebaum see that’s exactly the sort of thing where you should be rolling off a custom function to parse the json and not using a canonincal schema
 
It's not that it's not useful, it's just not as useful as something processable by a machine can be
 
@LucDanton it was an example
 
6:51 AM
I'm big on structured logging :v
 
@HubertApplebaum how is that an excuse
 
I chose it to be
 
isitpokemonorexcuse.com
 
I’ve thought it over and YAGNI trumps, but only because I consider the error message a 'whole'
point of schema+algo is to 'construct' a parsing function automagically
a function which happens to throw this or that
no, you can’t 'break' down the this or the that
write a different function that throws the things you care about if you want different functionality
 
it's so much effort
maybe if I made it a linked list
:')
 
6:55 AM
Definitely easier to do it formatted way but that's bad tooling (not pit of success etc)
 
@CatPlusPlus no it’s not
 
I wish farting were a paid job
 
the current version gets a lot done for free thanks to call stack etc. and just concatenating messages
 
You can chbage the name of the room to boniverflow
 
the result looks like a stack-trace due to how it’s built but it’s not meant to be one
that’s not a feature
the point of the message is to convey 'fuck off the data was bad'
 
6:58 AM
What's a good IRA
 
still structured logging or different formatting or localization make sense
you don't care about how it's parsed just about how the error is presented
probably
 
@HubertApplebaum not for my needs but yeah I can see how a different shop would want any of that
 
I feel Rust pushes you in right direction better with error type design
Maybe that's only a side effect of passing around dynamic strings being a pain :v
 
> dominated by old family controlled businesses, that pass down their ownership through the generations instead of giving their wealth to charity, while the opposite is overwhelmingly true of America
loved that bit
I wish I were a giant shoe so I could step on these people
 
it’s like suppose you are the author of a function that parses 1, 2, 3 into the sum 6
you decide for the API that you’ll throw bad_format if you encounter 1,,3, maybe with a message of 'fuck off extra comma'
then you tell me 'yeah but you’d have more information if you had preserved the call stack of being inside internal::parse_item::on_unexpected_comma' or whatever
 
7:04 AM
Well, I'm off to bed, but for what it's worth, I finally (for the first time in over a year) wrote a new blog post. coderscentral.blogspot.com
 
yeah okay there’s more information, but is it a feature?
 
@JerryCoffin posted in on r/cpp yet?
 
It's not really about more information, but information in form that's easy to consume by machines
 
here comes the karmawhore
 
@HubertApplebaum No (but I suppose I could...)
 
7:05 AM
@CatPlusPlus that makes my question 'yes okay it is X, but is it a feature?'
plug your own X
 
Already mentioned structured logging (i.e. skipping the formatting altogether) and i18n :v
Error message "fuck off extra comma" and unexpected_token(index, type::comma) is the same information, but the latter is easier to deal with for anything more than "just display it and hope for the best"
 
@CatPlusPlus and I’d grant i18n but what structure is there to structure? is my point
the structure, the contract, the API, is the whole of parse_my_sum
do log in a structured manner when and where and how that was called for your machines
but it’s fine if the buck stops at that API, too
@CatPlusPlus yo I didn’t just put a message I did say throwing a bad_format
and I said nothing about display
 
And I'm talking about contents of that
 
but there’s no point
the fact that one more token is expected is internal information to parse_my_sum
it doesn’t need to tell its clients what it was doing at the time
 
@HubertApplebaum There, now I did. reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/445939/raw_loops_vs_stl_algorithms (in a reply/comment, not a new post).
 
7:10 AM
Speaking of errors and Rust
Something happened
 
@CatPlusPlus you know what I’ve thought it over and we’re not in disagreement
 
well, in the future kind() will be a language keyword
 
I don’t like that you’re suggesting I don’t structure my errors when I do however
 
Granularity I guess
 
yeah
 
7:12 AM
> fatal: You are on a branch yet to be born
Ooookay then.
 
sounds like perl programers
 
Oh. So it didn't ACTUALLY pull anything when it... put all this code on my HDD.
.... Git pls what're you doing.
 
How did you clone
 
git clone --thephd
 
git clone --hard
 
7:17 AM
10x developer https://t.co/0T1nQ9RtHf
Am I the only who finds that picture somewhat creepy? :)
 
> 12 iterations, starting with a single letter, results in (as expected) 4096 characters. (I stopped there to not be too obnoxious, but I guess doing some 32 or so iterations to get 4GB posts should be completely possible.
lol
 
> Whether or not the 1038 layers of Discourse can cope with that is different matter.
 
Answer is no
 
lmao discoseconds
discodevs
dicksauce
I love this thread
 
@CatPlusPlus one day I will achieve such professionalism
help my browser is dying
 
> Am I reading that code correctly? They literally attempt the exact same resize on the exact same image five times because if it discofails the first four times it might discosucceed on the fifth. What is this? Faith-driven development?
this is great
 
@HubertApplebaum So, PIL had a permission bug where you had to-write an image twice due to some permissions nonsense, so fml
 
You're doing something wrong
 
Remember that in the day you needed to check if the directory already exist in os.mkdir
 
7:41 AM
lol discoursistent
 
Dicsourse is special
@Mikhail Not at all the same thing (and checking beforehand was and still is a race condition)
 
lol discuourse hijacking ctrl+f
how do I full text search
 
pray to allah
 
this thread <3
 

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