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2:02 PM
People are drawing connections between Trump being elected and Brexit
 
Ven
@blelbach if you have time to update it – FPG link is wikiful as well :) thanks again
 
Eh~, it looks like inline variables didn't make it.
 
Inline variables are still at discussion.
 
Ven
@Puppy youtube.com/watch?v=lnc8s6mjRJs fun game. but the protoss wasn't that aggro
 
Oh, but forward progress guarantees were accepted. Are there several sessions in parallel?
 
2:05 PM
No.
Forward progress guarantees were motions 13 and 14.
Inline variables are motion 15.
 
Ven
@Morwenn what are those?
 
We're going in order :P
 
Oh, so there was some delay in the Reddit page.
@Ven Guarantees about execution of parallel algorithms. To be honest, I hardly understood the paper.
 
@Ven I initially post the generic link, e.g. wg21.link/P0299
then I find the link to the revision that is publicly available when I have a moment, e.g. wg21.link/P0299r1
Or maybe that one was r0
 
Ven
@Morwenn Okay, I think I got it now...
(I was reading the paper and going "wut?")
 
2:10 PM
Inline variables pass, maybe will get NB comments.
 
@Griwes No :p
the other one probably will
those were personal positions not NB ones
 
Better now? :P
> Is this going to simplify the limerick?
Okay, now we move on to... structured bindings.
Fun fun fun.
 
Whats that about?
 
Ven
hype.
 
Something with terrible extension points.
 
2:13 PM
Hahaha dat flag.
 
on what
 
A gif of a girl doing some eye wiggle
I forgot to check the name of the room before i invalidated it
 
lol
 
@Griwes Get a live conference with @ThePhD :D
 
I'll take shitty extension points for now. We can always add better ones later (or just keep returning pairs and tuples)
 
2:15 PM
Structured bindings pass.
 
Ven
OMG
 
Selection statements with initializer up now.
 
Yay!
 
Selection statements with initializer pass.
Yay.
 
Ven
@Griwes what's that? google doesn't help
 
2:18 PM
@Barry I hope we will add those at some point.
 
@Ven P0305
 
I wonder why Walter/Alisdair were against if(init; cond)
 
A variant of the R0 paper with select and constexpr.
 
Ven
mmh...
 
@TemplateRex Alisdair because of feature train.
 
Ven
2:19 PM
so we're gonna have select? :DDD
 
I don't remember if Walter was there in the room when EWG was discussing this? I don't think he was.
 
@Griwes meh, seems trivial to implement, great benefits
 
@TemplateRex I agree, but I do understand his vote.
Ooookay, we are done with CWG motions.
 
Ven
I can't even find P0305 with google zzz
 
Now we have... 34 LWG motions.
> I know we can get out of here before it gets dark.
Oh Marshall.
 
2:20 PM
In the end, there will be relevant language changes in C++17 + non-trivial library additions.
 
@Griwes the stuff people have been trying to pull, almost completely revising Jacksonville papers and claiming that the "basic design hasn't changed" to justify pushing it into C++17, ... and then voting against such a small feature... pff
 
@Griwes lol
 
How are modules coming about?
 
@TemplateRex nah, just roll with it
 
Ven
2:21 PM
@Griwes oh, no variant in language / inspect-style stuff?
 
@TemplateRex A stupid question though, who exactly are you outside of StackOverflow? :P
 
@Ven Too soon, not enough work.
 
Ven
okay :-)
 
@Ven No, that was only an exploratory paper really.
 
lol, they want to estabilish a national holiday called "Independence Day" on 23/24 of June in England
 
2:23 PM
@Griwes author of yet to be discussed LEWG paper :)
 
@Ven gonna watch in a mo
 
@sehe sorry
 
Ven
@Puppy shows how you can win with 600apm. Not even 300 are enough
 
Motion to refer to C11 instead of C99 in the library.
 
@TemplateRex condolences
 
2:33 PM
@LucDanton how so? did you go through the process once?
 
oh god no
 
Referring to the C11 library passed.
Aaaaaaand... std::variant :D
 
No pilfering semantics? :p
 
Ven
Go Go Go
 
the fuck
unanimously :O
 
Ven
2:36 PM
which version?!
 
How the fuck did that pass with no discussion and no opposition :O
 
@Ven Kona compromise I guess.
 
@Ven ...the last one.
Now we're at "making optional greater equal again".
 
Ven
@Griwes uhhh, so, stateless_by_exception version, where you have to probe it?
 
@Ven I can't say which one it is anymore.
 
Ven
2:37 PM
...right
 
Also didn't really look closely at that since I've written my own.
 
Ven
haha
@Morwenn that'd be?
 
@Ven The one with valueless_by_exception.
 
Ven
@Morwenn okay!
@Morwenn am I correct thinking this state can never be reached with noexcept move ctors?
 
@Ven Probably. I don't know how they deal with the noexcept-ness.
 
Ven
2:41 PM
okay.
 
2:59 PM
fucking Brexit.
 
@Puppy move to Scotland
 
and ask for independence
 
user image
2
oh no
what do they do now?
poor kitties :(
 
The phrase "try-catch a bad_alloc" has just been said out loud.
 
Ven
...
 
3:12 PM
I'm not joking.
 
@Griwes as in "never try-catch a bad_alloc"?
 
@Griwes Context?
 
@orlp No, as in "[...] our vector does try-catch a bad_alloc [...]".
 
Ven
"always check for malloc's return value"
 
The context is a very prolonged discussion about N4524.
There's a lot of fire in form of "against" votes on this one.
 
3:16 PM
Strange.
 
@Griwes what a useless issue
 
@Griwes ridiculous, if against, why not add reserve_exactly
 
You guys ever answer interview questions, then later realized you got them wrong?
 
@Morwenn Not really, (1) Chandler explained how that's useless, and (2) Jonathan Wakely is going to write a better paper for that same feature.
 
@JossieCalderon Of course not. The answer I gave was correct, and they just didn't ask the right question.
 
3:20 PM
Good.
 
I think the assault knife should be banned
it's clearly dangerous
 
'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.
lel these tweets
 
IDGI
 
@Griwes I'm against this as it stands right now. Not because I'm against the idea, but because it needs to be expanded a bit--for example, std::string also has a reserve, and its description should be changed in the same way. The unordered containers also have reserve, but I think they're enough different that no matching change applies to them.
 
Splicing for std::map and std::set :o
 
3:26 PM
@JerryCoffin I'm actually against it because of what Jonathan said he'll propose. :P
@Morwenn No, splicing for std::map or std::set.
You can't splice a map and a set together :P
 
I like that proposal.
 
@Borgleader Hard to sob properly after a leopard has eaten your tear glands.
@Griwes Link?
 
@Morwenn boost.multiindex has it already IIRC
 
Ven
@Morwenn not the unordered version.. :P?
 
@JerryCoffin There's no link to what Jonathan will propose, because he will propose it.
 
3:29 PM
@TemplateRex Splicing?
 
think so, or maybe i'm confused with the heterogeneous lookups that got added in c++14
 
@Griwes I was afraid of that. Can you at least give a minimal summary of what he said?
 
@Ven I thought no, but apparently yes.
 
Ven
@Morwenn good :3
 
@TemplateRex I thought Boost.MultiIndex was about contiguous stuff, so no splicing, but I might be mistaken.
 
3:31 PM
@Morwenn all of boost.multiindex is link-based, even the random-access emulation
 
:o
TIL
 
@JerryCoffin A mechanism to talk between a container and its allocator to be able to sensibly overallocate.
Yay, relative paths for filesystem passed.
 
http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_61_0/libs/multi_index/doc/tutorial/indices.html#rnd_indices On the other hand, random access indices have several disadvantages with respect to std::vectors:

They do not provide memory contiguity, a property of std::vectors by which elements are stored adjacent to one another in a single block of memory.
 
Eh~, no motion for my library proposal. I thought that it was supposed to go through LWG this week.
 
Ven
@Morwenn :( <3
 
3:37 PM
Yeah, I am sadness :(
 
@Morwenn deferred for C++next
at least needed more baking time
 
Poor @Morwenn :(
 
@TemplateRex But I'll be old by then ç____ç
Oh er, anyway, I shall leave. Later.
 
@Morwenn ~toodles
 
nwp
@Morwenn just call it mature instead, it means the same but sounds more positive
 
3:42 PM
Discussing Bryce's Hotel Parallelifornia right now. :D
 
@Morwenn Walter presented, feedback was positive-ish, but train schedule etc. I think Walter will brief you.
 
@Griwes I kind of suspected that might be the case. If it's kept really simple (like changing the specification to basically be "allocate at least N", and a return that says: "I allocated M for you", it might work out. I worry, however, that it could end up drowning in feature creep, and either being rejected outright, or being tacitly ignored, and we (at least effectively) end up back where we started.
 
@JerryCoffin Let's wait for an actual paper from Jonathan and see :P
 
Ven
if (_count++ > sizeof(bmask) * CHAR_BIT)
  error("cannot add new flag");
 
Hotel Parallelifornia passed. Parallel algorithms now std::terminate() when an exception escapes an element access function.
 
3:58 PM
Kinky.
 
Ven
@Griwes so, std2?
 
@ven The motion to make that a reserved namespace passed
 
ah fuck
I went to the shop and bought everything except that which I had actually needed.
 
4:13 PM
I've done that a few times.
It's sucked.
 
@Puppy Sounds like what happens when my wife insists that she (and the kids) come along on shopping trips. Needed milk and butter. End up spending 20 times as much as milk and butter would have cost--and I still need to go back to get the milk and butter.
 
@JerryCoffin whatever makes them happy! :)
 
@ScarletAmaranth I like to believe an empty wallet is what makes them happy. q_q
 
I love spending money for others
nice dinner for me and my lady with fancy wine and stuff - don't mind if I do
 
@ScarletAmaranth But it doesn't make anybody happy as far as I can see. The kids didn't want to come, so they don't even try to act like they're happy at all. Then my wife is unhappy because it's too much work, and the kids are being a pain, and it's all a mess, and all my fault...
 
4:28 PM
@JerryCoffin try the good ol' ice cream bribery trick?
 
@JerryCoffin Why would you take the kids with you?
 
if she's anything like my mom used to be, it's the case of "because we're family and we go places together"
(I used to hate shopping then :()
 
@Puppy Because my wife insists on it. Why? Other than something sexist like "women are like that", I haven't a clue in the world why she does that though.
@ScarletAmaranth I wish I could--but my wife doesn't approve of things like that either. To an extent I can even see her point, but it makes things more difficult anyway.
 
4:44 PM
@JerryCoffin things like ice cream in general or bribery using said article?
 
@ScarletAmaranth Bribery in general.
 
Hey guys, sort of have a design question - is it appropriate to ask on stack overflow or what other part of stack exchange is it appropriate for?
 
@JerryCoffin well, they have good reasons to not want to go shopping - it's in some sense boring and kids can't be arsed; therefore, this is more like compensation rather than bribery... I guess :P
 
@OneRaynyDay Try your face
 
Hey
I'm looking for a GitHub browser extension or plugin that can use GitHub tags to calculate velocity.
Any ideas?
 
5:09 PM
@Moshe Velocity is distance over time. What exactly are you moving?
 
@fredoverflow Measuring scrum-style points.
 
Are you one of those Scrum masters or something?
 
5:25 PM
No but I want to track my progress.
 
@TemplateRex On the other hand, the few arguments against made sense too.
@nwp Nah, mature doesn't really sound positive either to my ears :(
 
5:45 PM
1 message moved to bin
 
what is this team thing?
are they official? i.e does the "Foo" team contain developers that have write access to Foo's repository or something?
 
 
6:16 PM
@Morwenn did you read the full transcript?
 
@TemplateRex Which transcript?
 
@Morwenn of the discussion of your paper
@Morwenn you can ask detlef vollmann for wiki access
 
@TemplateRex No, I only have a brief report from the first LEWG discussions.
@TemplateRex Ok, I will ask. Thanks :)
 
@Morwenn sorry, update: jeffrey yaskin for wiki access, detlef for reflector access
@Morwenn I just sent a copy-paste to your email from the paper
 
Looks like the EU now has 1 GB of free space.
13
 
6:24 PM
@TemplateRex Oh, thanks again :D
 
@Morwenn they write this stuff in realtime, so with wiki access you can follow it live :)
 
Ok.
I already have implementations around, so I could answer most questions.
 
@Morwenn I think they just want to implement it themselves, and let it "bake" a while, you should be ready to get it into c++20. Also, it's apparently already in range-v3 so that helps
 
@TemplateRex Already? Last time I checked there was a comment about authors not begin sure whether they should implement it or not. I'll check again.
 
6:31 PM
@Morwenn the libc++ maintainer is saying this is a "cool proposal", just doesn't see the urgency for c++17, and the range-v3 maintainer is saying he has already done it
 
Oh, cool.
 
@Morwenn just read the email I sent
 
I was in the middle of doing that.
 
lol the Onion
> “At least the 10,000 pounds I lost betting on Remain aren’t worth much anymore.”
12
 
xD
 
6:54 PM
Done fixing everything on static_math. Apparently it should work with Apple Clang now.
 
Ven
Merged the pr?
 
Almost. I did things a bit differently but it was the same thing in essence.
 
Ven
Okay. I didn't like the macro approach, tbh. A using would look far better, and not be very much more verbose...
 
I used the « write everything down » brutal approach. I wouldn't have accepted the macro solution.
Apparently the guy is working on some constexpr versions of the log functions.
Seriously, at some point most of the algorithms will have been written by other people.
Now I can go back to sorting algorithms :D
 
7:21 PM
@Puppy well played
 
so
we had a demo at work on Monday for a feature that I was working on that went poorly for us
any advice for managing the boss?
 
nwp
@Puppy why did it go poorly? it didn't work or it didn't fulfill the requirements?
 
didn't really work that well is what I have heard
 
nwp
maybe play it down as a proof of concept that was misrepresented as being a fully integrated feature
 
sup, I finished my fizzbuzz. only 11 lines! anyone care to take a look?
 
nwp
7:30 PM
@thepiercingarrow yup
 
@nwp Even them have had to deal with too many FizzBuzz implementations though.
 
@thepiercingarrow how? That's enough lines to implement a search engine
 
nwp
maybe they should make clang-tidy write automatic code reviews
 
@Puppy was the demo internal or for a customer?
 
customer
 
7:35 PM
first version or iteration on previous one?
 
we did demo it to them before that was apparently mostly fine
 
nwp
is the boss a developer or a manager?
 
erm
company owner
 
so was the new feature below expectation performance wise, didn't match the spec? what was the disappointment? and was the customer disapointed or only the devs?
 
he kinda gets stuck in with whatever he decides to
@TemplateRex some performance but mostly bugs I think and some usability issues
 
7:38 PM
was it supposed to be final version, or can you still adjust and bring new demo in 2 weeks?
 
certainly not final at all
it's half-way through development
 
from what you're saying, I wouldn't sweat it too much, just let boss know that customer had useful feedback on rough edges, that your ironing them out, keep talking to customer, and keep talking to boss
 
boss was the one doing the demo.
 
@Puppy ouch, so he felt being made to look bad
 
dunno, I went on holiday before the demo
but I imagine so
 
@Puppy so you haven't heard back from the boss directly yet? what exactly are you looking for in advice?
 
what I'm gonna say to try to get burned less badly when I do hear from him ;p
 
i don't know, sounds like a weird thing for a boss to demo intermediate versions, why was he doing it, not some team member?
 
small company
the principle problem isn't that there were bugs, but that we didn't know about them until much too late
I could have fixed most of them in a very short time
 
i'd step in front of it, and talk to boss first, perhaps saying you heard there were rough edges in demo, and that you're on top of it ironing them out
don't wait for boss to come to you
 
nwp
7:53 PM
@thepiercingarrow line 9 is too complicated
 
@nwp How would you recommend I improve upon it?
@nwp Remove the inline conditionals?
 
nwp
by understanding that you don't need separate cases for fizz, buzz and fizzbuzz
should be 2 ifs with no ?:
maybe
 
are you really helping someone with fizzbuzz?
 
nwp
@Borgleader after my stellar performance yesterday it seems the best I can do
 
nwp
7:58 PM
and writing good code is hard, being satisfied with working code is not good enough
 
Is that better?
 
nwp
no
 
how about DIV_3 and DIV_5 instead of DIV3 and DIV5 ?
ohhhh I see what you are saying
got it
 
ugh...
 

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