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2:01 PM
Brillant designs don't discriminate
 
why do people create separate event handling functions in C#?
if they can be combined into one, whilst still being differentiated from their sender.
oh well.
this room appears to be idle.
 
user406009
That's because there's not much to talk about.
 
user406009
Just wait a couple of days for cppcon. Then we can all argue about how each of the talks is "horribly incorrect and a disgrace to modern C++"
 
there are no cppcon events in NZ.
that I know of.
 
user406009
So sad I can't make it this year. So many interesting talks.
 
user406009
2:13 PM
At least there is always next year!
 
why is C++ seen as a language more suited for advanced applications?
 
@edition use Java
inb4 flag
 
@edition Define "advanced".
Then we'll talk. Maybe. No guarantees.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Computing how MLG a pointar is
 
2:19 PM
@набиячлевэлиь Well, if it's a raw pointer it's pretty MLG because it has no scope.
 
user406009
C++ is the king of zero-cost abstractions though.
 
user406009
So it allows you to use a ton of them.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Nice
 
user406009
Which might be more useful for more complicated applications.
 
@EtiennedeMartel like 'performance critical' or 'mission critical' applications used in Engineering, like in Aircraft systems.
 
2:20 PM
@edition Because it works? I don't know.
 
@edition Compiles to native
 
user406009
@edition "Zero cost abstractions" would be quite useful for performance critical applications.
 
@edition Why did you say "advanced" instead of "performance critical" or "mission critical"?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes because people are confusing the terms!
 
user1804599
High-quality implementations, and predictable performance characteristics.
 
2:22 PM
Well said
 
user1804599
I think there are also programming languages specifically designed for hard real-time applications.
 
ok, I'm not a C++ language expert, but those were just initial perceptions from when I was learning the language.
 
@edition assuming that all the event handlers adhere to this convention. IME that is not happening (because closures are a far more convenient way to bind context to delegates).
In that respect I'd expect the sender argument could be null in all non-MS libraries that adhere to this "convention" for no reason.
 
@sehe agreed.
 
user1804599
your mother is a closure
 
2:29 PM
I've used the sender argument on occasion, and I think it's kinda nice that it's there. But I've hardly ever felt the need to declare my event interfaces in that style
 
user1804599
I think it should not be there.
 
user1804599
It's too fragile.
 
user1804599
Lexical scope is easier to reason about than arguments that could come from anywhere.
 
sender is useful for arrays of thingies.
 
My event handlers typically have a sender argument, but they're rarely object.
 
2:42 PM
note to self: the crowd seems to like C#.
 
"the crowd"
 
user1804599
the crowd sucks
 
user406009
C# is legit. I am just waiting for the better Linux support.
 
C#'s pretty good.
I use it a lot of a variety of things.
 
RMS panics
 
2:46 PM
It gets the job done with minimal pain for most the use cases I encounter.
 
@edition C# is nice
 
@Borgleader
-16
Q: Please give me a right solution

Kais Bk//Country POJO CLASS package POJO; import java.io.Serializable; import javax.persistence.Column; import javax.persistence.Entity; import javax.persistence.GeneratedValue; import javax.persistence.GenerationType; import javax.persistence.Id; import javax.persistence.Table; @Entity @Table publi...

 
@Lalaland For what, exactly
 
Please give me a break — sehe 5 secs ago
 
@Mysticial Poor guy
 
2:48 PM
Why
 
deleted
rip
 
Actually looked like not too hard to debug. But I don't into Hibernate
 
> I don't into Hibernate
you English?
 
He's dutch.
:)
 
@TonyTheLion Er.
 
2:50 PM
:)
 
Well there wasn't too much code and the guy posted the error message, which puts him above average quality of questions on SO
He certainly didn't deserve to be crushed like that
 
@TonyTheLion It's a meme
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Erm... there was quite a bit of code.
@sehe oh. I didn't know.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Well. The trigger was "Please give me"
 
@Lalaland Only weird people use Linux outside of a server environment.
 
2:52 PM
Only weird people use C++
 
@EtiennedeMartel Most of my muggle friends use Linux.
 
Also, many sane people use C# for server applications
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes QED
 
2:53 PM
You're just perpetuating this idea into a myth.
 
People use Linux
 
Repeat a lie enough times and it becomes truth.
 
@sehe so there isn't anyone normal here ?
 
I'm starting to consider dual-booting
 
2:55 PM
Akimbo OS.
 
I had to delete that last comment.
 
0
Q: How to prove that sqrt(x) > x for any 0 < x < 1

DcCoOI need a prove that, for any x between 0 and 1, the sqrt(x) is bigger than x. Maybe it's easy and I'm not getting the point of the proof, but I tried lots of times and I never get to something that makes it look proved.

prolly need cvs
 
@CatPlusPlus What changed?
 
I'm pro-robot. I think they should just destroy us all at this point.
@R.MartinhoFernandes We organics will have to watch you closely from this point.
 
93
Q: Warlords of Documentation: Your Quest(ions Answered)

Kevin MontroseA couple weeks ago we came to meta with a proposed expansion of Stack Overflow: Documentation. The response has been very encouraging: 2,400+ upvotes and even more signups for the beta. You guys also asked a ton of questions. Some of them we were already kicking around internally, but weren’t ...

They're... doing this?
 
3:04 PM
Yep
:(
snackoverflow
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes They've been talking about it for a few weeks now.
 
@edition Godamnit!
@R.MartinhoFernandes Can't wait :3
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Sarcasm?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I like how they switched the roles of Q/A. Ask questions in the answers for the original post. And they answer it in the question for this post.
 
3:10 PM
@Mysticial They shove everything into this Q&A format, no matter how ridiculous it must be.
 
Except for chat. If there was a way for us to vote on who to ban, it'd be great.
 
@coincoin you're definitely still too new here
 
What does normal even mean!? :p
 
Alright
Booked for Octoberfest
 
What about Novemberfest?
 
user406009
3:18 PM
@JonClements It means a certain type of probability distribution.
 
@TonyTheLion Not enough beer
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ I never thought you were a beer drinker
 
@TonyTheLion You have never seen "quite a bit of code" then
@TonyTheLion I'm a beer brewer too
Terrible one at that, but still
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ For SO that was quite a wall of code
 
@Lalaland Are you going to cppcon?
 
user406009
3:20 PM
@fredoverflow No. Too many classes.
 
What do you mean, too many classes? OO classes?
 
user406009
Too many university classes.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Lemme show you a real wall of code:
 
You know what I need? Other than love, I mean
I need to sleep
 
3:21 PM
/cc @TonyTheLion
 
@Mysticial wow
 
drunk
who else
 
hello drunk
 
Hello drunk.
I'm else.
 
3:23 PM
JESUS MYTSITICIAL JUST FUCKIN CLICK ON THE REP NOTIFICATIONS
21
 
^^^ this
 
No. Fuck you.
:)
 
I starred that, because it needs to be done
 
It's a sin not to click on that
 
asin or atan ?
 
3:24 PM
`you've been doing that for what, 4 years now
 
If you don't click on the notifications we'll need Jesus to come down again and die for our sins
 
when I see those green or red thingies, it just begs me to click on it
 
how can you not die of ocd
 
I mean, I can't even resist it
 
I HAVE TO KNOW
 
3:25 PM
its killing us all
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva He'll lose his power if he does that.
 
Also what the fuck
You have earned double the reputation I have in 4 years
 
Mysticial registered 5 months after me and made 10x the rep i do not feel embarrassed at alll
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva I'm not embarrassed
 
but then again so did tomalak so idk
 
3:28 PM
Man, we need fast quad-precision GPUs, hell I'll take double precision. I want to render stuff on a planetary scale, and not some half-assed dwarf planet where a tiny ship is non-trivially close in size.
 
why do you need quad precisiion you domabutte
 
user406009
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva You can always just blame the timezones. He's awake during prime question time.
 
hey we got half precisionr ecently
isnt tat ~~great~~
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Planetary scale rendering with reasonable transforms feasible in realtime.
 
3:28 PM
@ScottW just answered
 
blamne the typos on my kjeboard bios btw
 
Well, not just planetary. With double you could do the solar system justice, but quad would be needed for something more than that.
 
@ElimGarak integer base + floating point for the details
ez
 
user406009
And @AnastasiyaAsadullayeva wins.
 
@ElimGarak Quads dem for squats dude
 
3:30 PM
eheheheheh
n1 brah
 
Hmm, sleep, hotline miami or factorio?
 
Depending on how much precision you need, you can try double-double. There will probably be about a 10x - 20x slowdown over double-precision though.
 
Hard choice
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ sleep
sleep is the best thing ever
 
3:31 PM
@Mysticial More than that because GPUs are BAD at double precision
 
Like, really really bad.
 
There are really few DP units on modern gaming gpus
As bad as 1 DPU for 128 SPU
 
Sleep is
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva I meant, slowdown compared to double. (which I know is bad except on select GPUs)
 
myst8cial pls fix dp on gpu
use your optimzing powers
 
3:32 PM
how is pixal formed?
3
 
double-single on GPU for 47-bit precision might actually be viable.
 
well you know even interger operations are still costly on gpu
 
@TonyTheLion When mommy pixal and daddy pixal do something in the bedroom.
 
IT IS NOT A SCERET
 
"double-singe" sounds like a type of dating pattern
I'm going double-single tonight :P
 
3:33 PM
double the dicks touble the fun
qed
 
@Mysticial ahn
 
what des @eltse think of this
 
maeks sense
 
> ahn
 
3:33 PM
@TonyTheLion A pixel consists of a red, green and blue sub-pixel.
 
reminds me of Tina
who remembers Tina?
 
@Mysticial RIP
 
The issue is, the precision must come "free". On a planetary scale, there is already dealing with participating media (the atmosphere), you need to figure in multiple scattering to really get the orbital view of the planet to respond nicely to a physical local star. On the ground during the day, you can get away with single scattering, but for everything else...
 
@fredoverflow woah amaze
 
@TonyTheLion lol
 
3:34 PM
i still think you need a global reference frame in integrer coordinates
i could be wrong but i was wrong once back in 2012 so it can't possibly be again that soon
 
I should learn more about GPUs
how is GPU formad?
 
gpus are nice but annoying
 
and very young compared to everything else.
 
you're coonstantly mixing nice, high level C++ whith shitty hardware constraints
have you ever done a split like a ballerine
well that is how coding n gpu feels like ok
 
@TonyTheLion Have you seen the movie "Pixels"?
 
3:36 PM
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva One of the primary reasons why I don't use GPUs for my Pi program is because double-precision and 64-bit integer throughput is the only thing that matters.
 
the gpu has a special chapter "fuck your abstractions"
 
@fredoverflow I have not
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva ohhhh
 
@Mysticial 32-bit FP is the only thing that can reach peak performance
integer operations are slowly getting there but not yet
and double forget it
 
Yeah, double can get up to 20x slower. That's fucked up.
 
isn't a GPU supposed to be designed to do integer operations?
 
I mean pixels are just sets of integers, no?
 
@TonyTheLion Ahah, no. :D
 
elaborate?
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Unfortunately, that's completely useless for bignum arithmetic. An FFT using single-precision is capped to maybe a million digits.
 
> complete ly sufeful
i saw that
 
3:38 PM
Yeah, we don't go overboard with FFTs (using them for simulating oceans).
 
well nvidia does make a class of gpus for double precision
 
What about DCTs?
 
but even then the performance is subpar
like 1/8th of single
 
FFT all the things
 
Double-precision will you get to a few hundreds of millions before memory becomes a problem. Beyond that it's all 64-bit integers for NTTs. (a modular variant of FFT)
 
3:39 PM
n log n all the things
 
@TonyTheLion There have been uses, folks have been decoding/encoding JPG on the GPU (DCTs)
 
do i get my bachelors in software eng yet?
 
@ElimGarak Yea thats where I know DCT from. (rip me having to have studied jpg compression)
 
@TonyTheLion You really want floating point for 3D stuff (vectors, matrices).
 
ohrly
 
3:40 PM
@TonyTheLion Framebuffer operations are the least of the GPU's worries.
 
@ElimGarak so what is its worry then?
inb4 I don't know nothing about GPUs
 
Most of the "get rekt" parts are now in the programmable parts of the pipeline. Where most of the fucking happens. Linear algebra to the fuck level.
 
so gpus do all the vector and matrix transforms necessary for graphics?
 
gpus are just big simd machines
 
3:41 PM
right
 
so yeah vector math is very adapted for simd
 
@TonyTheLion Yes, that was their initial fixed function purpose, it was called "Transform & Lighting". There is a massive amount of vector-matrix mults.
And games have largely been driving the GPUs as a whole, spawned it from obscurity basically. And games yet don't need DP, so DP is fucked.
There have been some scientific machines, I am hoping as the graphics hardware matures, it'll get better. Now it is /cry.
 
it is getting slowly better but still meh
DP units are expensiiiiive
 
Sep 12 at 18:34, by Borgleader
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm keeping my eye on you.
 
but shaders are executed on a GPU no?
 
3:44 PM
And to get an idea of how bad game devs are: It took them until the latter part of the past decade to figure out that you don't light shit in gamma space.
@TonyTheLion Yes.
 
@ElimGarak Intel is trying to change that. But through the Xeon Phi line.
 
> DP is fucked
...
 
@ElimGarak aren't shaders mostly pixel based operations?
 
Intel is pretty scary tbh
I am genuinely impressed by the performance of the iGPUs
 
@TonyTheLion per pixel
 
3:46 PM
@TonyTheLion Nah, only the last part. There are vertex shaders (operate on points), geometry shaders (operate on primitives), hull / domain shaders (operate on patches, tessellation ), compute shaders (operate on whatever the fuck ya want, GPGPU) and pixel shaders (operate on the output of the rasterizer, but it doesn't really work on pixels per se... That's the last part, part of the framebuffer ops).
 
ah I see
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva I won't be surprised if future Intel chips end up using the same silicon for both the iGPU and the AVX512.
 
Got myself a new toy u.rmf.io/fun
u.rmf.io/oops DON'T CLICK
 
But for now, it's physically separate dies.
 
Yep I too think w're slowly getting there
 
3:48 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Soooooooooooooo tempting :)
 
oh needs auth.
Nevermind.
 
FF blocks me anyway.
 
Also, there are no longer separate hardware pipelines (vertex / pixel in the old days) for every piece of the programmable pipeline. Now it's all general purpose, as the strive for GPGPU increased. Everything can do everything (with some conditions/exceptions).
 
Untrusted certificate.
 
3:49 PM
Ok, I'm going home.
 
@TonyTheLion So, in the end, it is the ROPs that chug data into the framebuffer for output (what you think of as actual pixel ops). And the 970 fiasco was closely related to the far end of the pipeline (ROP / L2 cache zone).
 
ROPs?
 
ROPs?
 
3:52 PM
You're talking about this like I know something. I have no clue about GPU's
 
Rasterization Operations, I'm guessing.
 
@TonyTheLion Well, it is a name that stuck, it's actually raster output units, but they are called after "raster operations".
 
WOO
I GOT IT RIGHT
Where's my gold star?
 
I've been doing a lot of dynamic programming lately.. but I'm still overweight.. where am I getting wrong?
 
3:53 PM
@ScottW Thanks, babe.
 
Perhaps I need some agile development
 
apparently win10 understands 3-fingers gestures, neat
 
@ScottW nice :)
I'm alright mate
been hanging out with girls
as you could tell from my fb pics
 
@TonyTheLion hey bby, wanna see my latest ruby gem?
 
@MarcoA. ruby gem?
 
user1804599
3:57 PM
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva ?
 
sosmeone is STEALING MY MEMES
ill allow it
 
<3
is anyone on mumbal?
 
user1804599
I had this idea of compiling to Java bytecode, while having generics and retaining safe downcasts.
 

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