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1:00 PM
@Prismatic you can watch grass grow
 
@Puppy Maybe it's round here? There are three large-scale commercial PV farms, (some land is not very suitable for agriculture 'cos flooding from river),
 
user3790646
@Jefffrey I see, haha.
 
@sehe this answer stackoverflow.com/a/11368031 doesn't have enough upvotes.
 
@CatPlusPlus "Hey let me use Unity for this! I'll just deploy it on-- wait. I can't, because I'm violating this 80 page EULA. Oh well, its irrelevant minutae!"
 
@BartekBanachewicz Because I feel that it gives me the choice to use whatever techniques I want.
 
1:00 PM
Deploy on what
Also what
 
good job cat
 
@MartinJames Somewhere in Cornwall. But I don't see how flooding is less problematic for a PV farm ;p
 
Its just an example, duh. The point being when you use someone else's work (esp something like Unity) you're pretty much their bitch
 
which is also absolutely irrelevant
 
@Puppy The arrays are on a steel frame that is above the normal flood level.
 
1:01 PM
psyduck
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I just watch that vid. It's pretty instructive
 
dotpng
 
I'd rather spend my time on something I can always use whenever and wherever I want
 
dotgif
 
@MartinJames Then just build the houses on the steel frame ;p
 
1:01 PM
which means not using it at all ever
 
yo ill fight yuou
 
dottxt
 
because the whole time is spent on doing the thing
instead of using it
 
oh you said agriculture not residency
my bad
 
99% of the time
 
1:02 PM
@Prismatic wat
 
@MartinJames fools, they should make them float
 
dotodf
 
@CatPlusPlus now you've gone too far
 
dotstfu
 
@thecoshman Floating arrays would not work - they would not last a week round here. They would 'float away' at night. We also have three open prisons:)
 
1:03 PM
either way I have to learn more javascript
 
Ell
I might buy a 64gb usb drive and dl wikipedia on to it
 
and WebGL
 
where more is less
 
user3790646
Haven't seen LRiO in a while...
 
@MartinJames lol
 
1:03 PM
@BartekBanachewicz i am the law
 
@BartekBanachewicz my commiserations
 
It's reddit, of course it doesn't sound smart
 
@CatPlusPlus i am the OP
 
@BartekBanachewicz wow, what a waste of time, just use unity
 
1:04 PM
especially because if you commit halfway, you'll screw the build system
 
@thecoshman I want to do it vOv
 
@BartekBanachewicz go see a doctor
 
@Prismatic you don't know what I'm doing vov
 
@BartekBanachewicz Try a compiles-to-javascript instead, we use typescript at work
 
jabbascript
 
1:04 PM
@BartekBanachewicz just use unity for it
 
@Puppy every single one is bad
 
@thecoshman Some of the non-floating panels have already walked:(
 
@Prismatic I love how you're missing the point
 
@MartinJames shame the panels themselves are not dangerously high voltage
 
@BartekBanachewicz you are talking as if javascript was not bad
 
1:05 PM
@Jefffrey the language is terrible. The productivity is great.
 
sell your soul to jabbasnake
 
says a lot, doesn't it?
 
@Prismatic Seriously though. Reinvent the wheel. Don't listen to these grumpy people.
 
@thecoshman They are, when fired up. There are long series strings, but at night...
 
Ell
the productivity is awful in javascript
 
1:06 PM
if with such a terrible language you can achieve productivity, there has to be something else to it
 
Ell
maybe it's just my incompetence though
 
@Ell might be.
 
Ell
there are much better languages with much better productivity imho
like ruby
;)
 
and php
 
1:06 PM
ruby isn't much less broken and is much less convenient
 
@MartinJames vOv just being them to a very high potential. Sure, if something does ground them the panels will fry, but so to will what ever slimy git tried to help them selves
 
Ell
fuck it's 2 in the afternoon
Opal
 
@thecoshman Lawyers:(
 
@BartekBanachewicz Typescript's not too bad.
 
@MartinJames vOv warning signs?
 
1:08 PM
@Puppy certainly not, but it has this javalike flavour to it
introduction of ADTs helped certainly
 
@thecoshman Never bothered the gyppos etc before.
 
@BartekBanachewicz So does regular javascript- it's just not so obvious.
 
and in general recent changes
@Puppy meh, JS is in the Lua-ish family for me. I don't use this.
 
really typescript doesn't make a lot of changes
 
It proposes a static type system, for one.
 
1:08 PM
it's mostly just javascript but there's also types and shit, which is clearly an improvement.
 
Slapping "some types and shit" when done improperly can do as much harm as good.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Puts you in the substantial minority of JS programmers. JS's this semantics are fucked up for sure, but they can be used correctly and safely.
 
TS's type system is far from perfect
@Puppy not worth it.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, I agree.
 
I mostly write purely functional code in JS.
I miss monads for sure, but implicit IO helps.
 
1:10 PM
@BartekBanachewicz It's less problematic when the compiler slaps you if you try to do something very fucked up
 
@BartekBanachewicz Whenever I write anything in JS, it's non-fuctional.
 
at least implicitly.
 
@Puppy I want to try this Flow compiler
 
never heard of it
 
full type inference is the thing.
 
1:12 PM
ts has some type inference but not necessarily a lot
 
which, after you've used Haskell, feels like a huge pain
 
fuck type inference
 
It's just my personal preference I suppose.
 
I dunno
I don't think that lack of inference is a particular weakness of TS
it has a C#-style level of inference I think
 
I think you're just used to javalike languages
 
1:14 PM
don't you always accuse me of being religious about C++?
 
C++ is javalike vOv
 
well
no wonder you got fired then
 
lol what
 
man, I'm sorry
that was excessively personal.
I apologize.
 
this was so out-of-context I forgot to get offended
 
1:15 PM
what I'm saying is
if you think that C++ and Java have a lot in common, you clearly don't know C++ very well
 
user3010322
@Prismatic Turn on a single threaded mode and hook the OpenGL error function proc. In a single-threaded implementation, any driver errors will create a nice callstack back to your application's code, giving you insight on where you failed explicitly.
 
We should rename this room from Lounge<C++> to Lounge<!C++>. That would make clear we're discussing every language except C++.
 
@Puppy it depends on the PoV. If you compare C#, Java, and C++ only, you're right. If you take a step back and see bigger picture, not so surely.
when you compare, you need some criteria.
 
user3010322
@Puppy As it stands, I hadn't written a line of Java before my class. I still got 100% on every single assignment that I had to write in Java. vOv
 
of course C++ is more flexible than java and can express way more paradigms and constructs, which doesn't change my opinion, really
 
1:17 PM
@ThePhD That merely demonstrates how terrible your prof is
 
it still lacks a lot compared to other languages
 
user3010322
:D
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, obviously they're only different if you use them differently.
 
user3010322
I just treated Java as the value-less derivative of C++ that it is and things worked out great.
 
@MartinJames they tend not to read...
 
1:18 PM
personally
I'm not going to argue that C++ couldn't use some love
I'm merely saying that if you took some Java and you tried to smash it through g++, you would not exactly end up with good C++.
 
@ThePhD do generics work like templates
 
@thecoshman Well, they tend to argue that they cannot read. It's situation-selective:)
 
java is still closer to C++ than either of those to Lisp, Haskell or Erlang
 
I don't think I've ever seen generics in java code... (not that I see a lot of java code either way)
 
@BartekBanachewicz That... doesn't really matter.
 
1:20 PM
3 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@Puppy it depends on the PoV. If you compare C#, Java, and C++ only, you're right. If you take a step back and see bigger picture, not so surely.
 
Ell
I tried flow
 
user3010322
@Prismatic There is no system that works as good as templates.
 
Ell
I didn't like it for some reason
I can't remember why
 
what matters is that if you are programming C++ and you want a good or even mediocre outcome, you can't just use Java style.
 
@Prismatic Bad Java code.
 
user3010322
1:20 PM
Java Generics fail, C#'s generics fail...
 
C#'s generics are OK really
 
user3010322
But the compile times are fast. :D
 
@Puppy that wasn't even remotely connected to what we were arguing
 
they miss a few things I like from templates but they also have advantages
 
Ell
c# generics are satisfactory
 
user1804599
1:20 PM
Scala generics master race.
 
Ell
templates are't just for generics
 
@Prismatic Although Java generics suck, you're still better out with them than without them.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well we're arguing over how similar they are and that's a pretty important measurement.
I mean, if you took some Lua code and tried to make it into JS code, you'd probably mostly be fine.
 
@Puppy I disagree. Even with quite similar languages you often need to take differing approaches
@Puppy try doing coroutines in ES < 6
 
@MartinJames oh, I'd dare say they can all read the words "have" "this" "for" "free"
 
1:22 PM
never found those to be especially useful
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz ES 6 still doesn't have Lua coroutines.
 
user1804599
It has mediocre stackless coroutines.
 
but stuff like jquery deferred is not so bad
 
@Puppy that's, again, your personal experience, not relevant to the point at hand at all
 
unless you want to do a statistical study we're both arguing only our own experiences
 
1:22 PM
@Puppy and ditto
@Puppy unless you say something else than "I didn't use this language feature, so clearly it's irrelevant when porting from this language", I don't see how it could produce anything meaningful
 
it wasn't exactly a cornerstone of my argument
just some observations that I've made
 
user1804599
But in school I got taught that all programming languages are the same except for the syntax and libraries!
 
either way, C++ and java have a lot of similarities
 
not enough
 
enough for me to throw them into one bag
 
Ell
1:25 PM
@BartekBanachewicz srs?
 
They are both languages
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's your personal experience and not relevant to the point at hand at all ;p
 
both mostly operate on mutable data held in objects
 
really?
 
1:26 PM
have any of you played around with swift
 
@Puppy true, that's why this was presented outside of the discussion
 
because my whole Wide compiler is based on immutable objects...
@BartekBanachewicz Fair enough.
 
@Prismatic this
@Puppy I don't think it's representative, as in, most of the C++ code in the world looks rather different, don't you think?
 
I don't think that matters.
how other people program C++ does not affect what I can achieve with it
 
I don't think singular, isolated toy examples matter.
 
user1804599
1:28 PM
@Prismatic No FOSS compiler; won't use.
 
jabba++
 
except as to how many libraries are available which I guess does affect stuff to some extent
 
for all I know, Wide is an experiment that has no practical use whatsoever
2
your code might just be a perfect example of such style being unfit to C++
 
hmm
guess you didn't see that presentation by Adobe about how the entire design of Photoshop is based around immutable objects?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Bartosz Milewski replies with stuff about monads
quel surprise
 
1:29 PM
@Prismatic Nobody saw that one coming
 
@Puppy I think I did.
 
in C++, of course.
and I guess that the Committee threw in const for fun (much like so many other things...) and nobody, at all, supports const in their own APIs.
 
const and true immutability are rather different
 
@Puppy They threw in mutable as well for ballance. :)
 
they can be different, kinda depends on what you're doing and how you're wielding it
 
user1804599
1:30 PM
Your mother being immutable is what causes energy conservation.
 
the fact you can temporary restrict a part of the code from modifying some data is really, really different from immutable, value based code
 
Ell
you can write c++ in many different ways
 
cue writing fucking "const&" everywhere
 
user1804599
Use D.
 
you can drop the & if you want ;p
 
user1804599
1:31 PM
immutable > const.
 
but if you are finding yourself using const everywhere then just write immutable interfaces.
 
C++ has little support for such style
Andy was complaining about it here already
find the discussion if you care
 
Why are super thin fonts everywhere now
 
user1804599
because shiny
 
thin fonts suck and reduce readability
 
1:33 PM
@Puppy that also doesn't help that the whole stdlib bases on mutability
 
user1804599
std libido
 
@BartekBanachewicz just add const ;p
 
@Puppy and FTR, about the "experiment with no practical use", Hate is at the same stage right now :)
@Puppy and enjoy all benefits of strict eval
 
user1804599
brb
 
eh
that depends on if your interfaces are strict or lazy, it's more than possible to be lazy if you find a part that really needs it
I searched for immutable in the transcript and did not find anything from this morning
 
1:37 PM
it wasn't this morning
it was quite a while ago
 
@Prismatic e.g?
 
ah well I'm never gonna find that then
 
only 6 messages from andy containing "immutable"
 
Everyone uses it for web design and graphics these days
 
I think that's more about looking good than being readable
sites that require readability don't use it
 
1:40 PM
> iOS powers 100% of iPhones, iPads, iPods and Apple watches
 
@Jefffrey A lot of that image is bunk, feel free to ignore it
I just linked it to show the horrible typeface
In Sert FancyName Sans Pro Extra Extra Light
 
@MarcoA. loool
@MarcoA. Actually I thought that was from all users... not as funny when you search across everyone
 
> We at JetBrains are very excited that Java is turning 20 and invite you to celebrate this important date with us!
Uh.
 
@EtiennedeMartel lol
 
1:46 PM
cool they're inviting us
 
I'll drink a beer on that.
 
Man Sublime Text looks so smexy
 
let's all go celebrate to JetBrains headquarters
 
each can bring some alcohol
 
1:47 PM
20 already?
wait, didn't Java born in '91? I guess not.
 
that was probably Oak.
 
> First appeared: 1995; 20 years ago
(wikipedia)
 
Java is a language that appeared? It wasn't written by someone? :)
 
it was discovered
while digging for dinosaurs
 
> 1995; 20 years ago
 
1:50 PM
> 1995; 20 years ago
 
> 1995; 20 years ago
 
> 1995; 20 years ago
 
Oh, python was in '91
 
party pooper
 
@Jefffrey thank u for infos sir
 
1:51 PM
np m'am
 
I'm so sleepy I wanna listen to that RTOS talk
 
> First appeared 1990; 25 years ago
this is the best thing about that
5 friggin years
 
Hi I'm Brendan Eich, did you know I wrote JavaScript in 10 days
 
Yes, it shows.
 
1:53 PM
@Prismatic he called jQuery.createJavascript()?
 
How do I add two numbers using jQuery
 
@AndyProwl I'd say that is redundant then
 
Using XPath
 
@AndyProwl RTOS?
 
not just RTOS. The RTOS talk
 
1:56 PM
I had the most boring RTOS prof on the planet
 
user3790646
@milleniumbug I'm trying to get the this pointer from the static WndProc, but when I do that the window creation fails :/ this's the code that when written makes the window creation fail: puu.sh/hZUwn/1df2dde2b9.txt
 
May 11 at 16:55, by Andy Prowl
best tech video for falling asleep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9fsWoDAi0U&index=3&list=PLtfSfhU7Q3NkyZxdTk4Z9R‌​XYLUb0QANDO
 
@AndreyErick No idea.
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked no, it was designed an implemented.
 
1:57 PM
> content good but u donot have energy..a kind of dead talk
he should try red bull
 
@AndreyErick Try debugging and consulting MSDN more.
 
user1804599
I had an idea.
 
@Prismatic soda ju!
 
user3790646
the getlasterror return value is 1400
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
1:58 PM
No more boilerplate!
 
If you return FALSE from NCCREATE, Windows treats it as a failure in creating the window
 
@rightfold what language is that?
 
@AndreyErick ERROR_INVALID_WINDOW_HANDLE
 
@AndyProwl Oh right
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl Elixir.
 
user3790646
1:59 PM
@BartekBanachewicz But if I remove this code from the window procedure the program runs fine
 

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