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10:00 AM
Gross @rightføld
what is wrong with people
 
@Dave The VM is a huge barrier for optimization. If you can compile C# to native code, you get much more optimization opportunities
 
user1804599
Is there either 1) a Thunderbird plugin that makes sorting on subject impossible or 2) a decent email client?
 
> that makes sorting on subject impossible
wat
 
lol Beyond Earth is already on sale
 
I hear good things about MailBird but, I think it may have ads
but very cheap to buy
 
10:01 AM
aids is also cheap to buy
 
one sentance that should never have been written ^
 
user1804599
@Dave lol aids
 
user1804599
@Dave lol non FOSS email client
 
> @bananu7 none at all, but it may be beneficial to be able to compile Setup.hs and similar using Haste instead of falling back to vanilla GHC.

Also, this is apparently a problem with vanilla GHC as well. Cabal is simply heavy to build with GHC 7.8.
kek
 
user1804599
So Cabal is not only shit at runtime, but also at compile-time?
 
10:03 AM
@rightføld still better than npm
 
user1804599
lolno
 
user1804599
npm is the best thing ever
 
user1804599
Also fuck client-side and server-side not using same code.
 
@rightføld exactly, write everything in Haskell
 
user1804599
Anyone used skulpt.org?
 
user1804599
10:04 AM
@BartekBanachewicz I'd be totally fine with that if you rewrite the current server-side code in Haskell for free.
 
Right, I need to get back to work. Thank you everyone for chatting to me and explaining some things. It's very much appreciated
@rightføld, @BartekBanachewicz @VáclavZeman @Mr.kbok Thank you
 
user1804599
Currently 6 kLOC and counting.
 
@rightføld do it next time
legacy is legacy
 
Battleblock Theater -90%
 
user1804599
> NotImplementedError: pickle is not yet implemented in Skulpt on line 1
 
user1804599
10:06 AM
ugh
 
@CatPlusPlus saw friends play it, didn't like.
 
user1804599
> otImplementedError: json is not yet implemented in Skulpt on line 1
 
user1804599
ok so json is not implemented but turtle is
 
user1804599
great
 
It's less than 2€ now
Just fukken buy it
 
10:08 AM
you know what's also for less than 2€
 
Yo momma?
 
For something that runs in browser, not having json is problematic at least
 
It's a toy, not something you'd use in production
 
10:11 AM
lol
 
@CatPlusPlus pyton. Like rubby.
 
The in-browser implementation you butt
 
what, there's an in-browser implementation of rubby?
 
Probably
 
I wonder if it's complete shit.
 
10:12 AM
browser is the new OS
everything must run in a browser
 
29 mins ago, by Mr. kbok
@Dave This is the question that everybody asked in the late 90's
incidentally
 
user1804599
Maybe Brython works.
 
@BartekBanachewicz why wonder? the answer is invariably yes. Its in a browser
 
user1804599
>>> import pickle
>>> pickle.dumps(set())
Traceback (most recent call last):
  module exec-abw2s796 line 1
    pickle.dumps(set())
TypeError: set() is not JSON serializable
 
user1804599
Good job Brython.
 
user1804599
10:14 AM
Piece of shit.
 
I'm shocked that nobody cares about those things enough to make them work like original implementation
shocked
 
Brython?
 
user1804599
At least make it return the same fucking type.
 
@CatPlusPlus I didn't think you were still capable of being shocked by something in software?
 
10:16 AM
isn't that the pythonic approach
I never got the people that like python
 
@sehe I know, i am just to lazy to write lot of sample code :/ — Manish Shukla 2 mins ago
cue ...
Oops. That's not just sample code‌​. So, it's also not just being lazy :) — sehe 52 secs ago
 
user1804599
And accept the same fucking arguments.
 
Also did I mention that NLua looks cool?
I prolly did.
 
That is the exact problem that i was facing. Sample code was miss-leading and reflected what i thought would be the case but you figured the issue then and there. Marvelous. Thanks Man — Manish Shukla 28 secs ago
 
ugh why would you template over "id"
 
10:23 AM
@sehe I can explain
 
and set it default to int
why
 
she was writing things at the blackboard most of the time
 
@AlexM. me too
 
so I couldn't concentrate on her face
 
ah
 
10:24 AM
I'm in no way sexist k
 
cough
irreparable
 
@AlexM. Seems that you have a crush on your maths professor
 
it started snowing today :D
first snow, and it's pretty early compared to the previous years
 
I am not going to open any new repos on github
 
maybe this winter will be awesome
 
10:27 AM
I am going to go back to my old projects and finish them
 
^ I like the NATO flag there
 
@Abyx which one is you?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm not participating
 
@TonyTheLion meh, at some point it's basically making shit up
craving oh-so-wanted attention
 
10:32 AM
@TonyTheLion $5 says that's a fake blog, either way they're 13 so who cares
 
@BartekBanachewicz :D
> self diagnosed with obesity
 
lol, a company opened an HQ in a city around here and unemployed people don't want to work because they prefer to sit at home and live off state assistance
the mayor is desperate and telling everyone to get off their asses and work
I think this is one of those situations where @LightnessRacesinOrbit would talk about how lazy bums live off his tax money
 
you should be happy that your country has that much of tax money
 
@Abyx why? if he works, that means it's his money
 
@AlexM. uh, proof?
 
10:39 AM
@TheForestAndTheTrees gandul.info/stiri/…
 
oh, now I understand why screenshots suck - you can't translate text on them
 
then again, the company is seeking to find people from a village, I guess I can see how they prefer to sit at home and get money from the state when they have animals and stuff to get food from
the issue is that these people are allowed to take money from the state
 
lol it sounds like you wanna back to USSR
 
we don't have a nice system where you're nagged by someone to find a job like how @Puppy showed (or at least that's how I understood it)
people here can live off state assistance for quite a while w/o any issues
 
@Abyx Project Naptha dot com
 
10:45 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit hold on your horses... I am adding comment to the post..and I am free to up vote as I like — cpp_hex 6 mins ago
lolwut
question OP complains that I said the answer author can't have my upvote yet
@AlexM. yep. a common problem.
 
oh lol Freddie is on SO
didn't know that
 
here if you're not looking for work you can't get the fecking money. which is what Puppy was bitching about (it did seem inconvenient for him and could be improved)
 
he has kinda god status in Polish embedded community
 
> Polish embedded community
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit do you really need everything spelled out? :P
 
10:47 AM
is that where you go around shoving katajinki into little electrical boxes, pouring tea without milk with lemon onto it then smearing it around onto the circuit board?
disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm saying
it's early what do you want from me
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit we know, you always do that
 
> katajinki
oh god
also FFS "without milk with lemon"
tea with milk is an abomination
 
I don't like tea with milk either
 
@BartekBanachewicz :(
 
tea + 2 or 3 x sugar
 
10:52 AM
putting milk in tea is the only way to stop the tea killing you
 
Tea with sugar is an abomination too
 
I don't use sugar at all
 
bitter as fuck, no?
 
I like the bitter taste
 
I make my tea bitter when there's a bad taste in my mouth that I want to wash away or I feel like meh
it forces a full refresh
 
10:53 AM
If you have to mask the actual taste of a thing then maybe you shouldn't drink the thing
 
user1804599
user image
4
 
I have a blend of ceylon and assam that I use especially for that
I let the infusion go on for 10 mins
 
> Unfortunately, tup is so fast that your chair mounted jousting might suffer. I apologize in advance if someone besmirches your honor and you are unable to properly defend yourself as a result.
haha
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit :D
 
@BartekBanachewicz wot
 
10:54 AM
admittedly I also eat sweets alongside
 
i realise my spelling is horrendous
I have actually no idea what they're really called
just became a bit of a running joke in the family that my grandma always had 'em but never saw it written down or anything
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit those?
 
yum
 
it's spelled "Katarzynki" :D
 
10:55 AM
It looks like shit.
 
thanks
I was close
 
@Mysticial it's gingerbread in chocolate vOv
 
@Mysticial they're basically fat McVities digestives
okay, with ginger
 
I really like separate syncdb and migrate
 
but what if a piece of those things suddenly decides to sit on your lip
and it gets inside the tea
I don't eat and drink tea at the same time
 
10:58 AM
@AlexM. Try not to eat alive sentient things then
 
hm I'm out of starboobs beans
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Looks like Lebkuchen
 
jesus, that cricketer died
though it already wasn't a good sign two days ago when a knock on the head caused his heart to stop
 
cricket; serious business
 
Xeo
what
 
Xeo
@Rapptz wait, the standard didn't disambiguate that to mean "variadic generic lambda"?
 
Apparently not.
 
they could've just kicked out va_args
 
convenient
 
but COMPATIBILITY WITH SOFTWARE WRITTEN 20 YEARS AGO IS OUR TOP PRIORITY
 
11:04 AM
Maybe more people will have the same hate for it that I do and it'll be removed :D
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Dude
 
@Rapptz see above
 
Xeo
They kicked out a bunch of stuff in C++17
 
@Xeo oh, do tell. Haven't exactly been following that (I kinda got discouraged after optional)
 
what's wrong with optional?
 
@AlexM. it's not there
 
oh
 
Xeo
> Adopted N4086, which removes trigraphs. Yes, we removed something from C++… and something that was inherited from C! But wait, there’s more…

> Adopted N4190, and actually removed (not just deprecated) several archaic things from the C++ standard library, including auto_ptr, bind1st/bind2nd, ptr_fun/mem_fun/mem_fun_ref, random_shuffle, and a few more. Those are now all removed from the draft C++17 standard library and will not be part of future portable C++.
 
@AlexM. Nothing.
It's already shipping in libstdc++ and libc++ I think.
Under std::experimental::optional.
 
@Xeo bah. Step in a good direction.
wait random_shuffle?
 
Xeo
11:07 AM
yes
there's std::shuffle in C++11, which takes a proper URNG
 
@Xeo Wait what?
 
@Xeo oh ok
 
@Rapptz Yeah, how dare they get rid of auto_ptr!
 
It seems rather drastic.
Not auto_ptr, more like std::random_shuffle and the binders etc.
 
that’s old cruft :s
 
11:09 AM
binders are useless
and if there's proper shuffle then I don't care
I wonder what those "few more" are
 
When will I get my new and improved std::strstream
 
inb4 vector>bool<
 
Xeo
Is that the satanic twin brother of vector<bool>?
 
No
That's the great only version of std::byte_stream
 
@Xeo it's bool templated over vector and the whole rest of the code
 
11:11 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Well, it should be. Because the older a piece of software is, the less likely the author will be patching it for you.
@Rapptz improved how?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit patching for upcoming standards should be incremental and phased in time anyway :F
 
Not getting a 2 paragraph deprecation warning making me feel like a bum would be cool.
 
(since C++11)
(until C++17)
(deprecated in C++14)
3
 
[[deprecated("yer a bum")]]
 
11:13 AM
this is satisfying
 
But honestly I would not mind std::byte_stream
 
@BartekBanachewicz TMI
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah they keep FUCKING AROUND with this shit
and it's annoying
 
Preferably with a non-stupid API with freezing and shit
 
if they're so bothered about backward compatibility with the 1990s they could at least try not to fuck up the API they wrote three years ago
that we're in some places only just getting support for now
 
11:15 AM
Everything else removed has been superseded by something else but not std::strstream.
 
ITT committee has no earthly idea what they're doing
 
I think that's the only "deprecated-but-not-removed" thing I can think of.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit this API was a patch over the old one. It just added rvalue refs, now the whole function is getting kicked out.
 
@BartekBanachewicz creating a horrid compatibility mess requiring version detection and whatnot
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit except no it doesn't. Just don't write code using deprecated functionality and convert the one that does. It's really pretty simple.
 
11:16 AM
lol
You people are weird.
 
?
 
Also this change would be breaking even if C++11 didn't introuduce that change so I don't really get what you're on about here
 
Bartek "everyone's software is always written for <the standard that's live at time of writing>" Bananachewitz
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Well if it isn't, it's old at the time of writing.
 
You do realise that once code is written it tends to be used and maintained for some time afterwards, right?
 
11:17 AM
what's the point of writing software against previous standards, do tell
 
Often in a production environment?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit which means updating for the newer revisions of the language standards.
 
No, it absolutely does not.
 
@BartekBanachewicz And you know whose fault that is? That dude that keeps rewriting all the old code because there's a new standard. Then there's no time left to update the new code.
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
11:19 AM
I refuse to accept reality.
6
 
Fair enough then.
 
wait that was supposed to stay in my head.
:P
 
no it wasn't it was starbait but that's okay
 
Ell
when will a value overload be chosen if there are any reference overloads? or will it always be ambiguous?
 
11:21 AM
 
the actual question should be why do you need both at the same time
 
@Ell too complicated to bother remembering, unless there’s partial ordering involved
 
they're like mutually exclusive
 
( Thu-11:21:17 ) ( tomalak ) { int x = 3; foo(x); } void foo(int& x) { BARK; } void foo(int x) { BARK; }
( Thu-11:21:17 ) ( geordi ) error: call of overloaded 'foo(int&)' is ambiguous
 
in which case the partial order dictates what happens
 
11:22 AM
ordering of overloads is annoying in C++
even though I know how to do it now :S
 
Ell
@LucDanton I understand what you mean now when you said that free functions don't have the same power as member functions when it comes to ref qualification
ie a forwarding reference only takes any reference type whereas an unqualified member function can be any reference type or a value type
 
seriously @Ell, you just need const&/&& for readonly, and & for write. Value if you're storing afterwards.
 
Ell
at least I think that's what you were try to say
 
this is a rule of thumb that always worked for me in C++11
 
@Ell righto; although I’m really annoyed by the asymmetry more than anything, the way non-static member functions do it isn’t terribly safe
 
11:24 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Dammit, the secret is out.
 
(it subverts const/lifetime extension)
 
wish Microsoft's unit testing lib for C++ came with mocking stuff
 
I wonder if I should put Potato on hackage
 
Oh shit, my domains expire next week.
 
11:29 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit actually, I think it's the swedes who take on those reindeer
 
there's just one package tagged "game" there
that's awfully little
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes time to look into a domain sniper me thinks :P
 
speaking of domains
> This website is currently suspended for billing reasons.
whoops, I forgot to email them to say that I want to kill the contract
 
there's a job offer for Haskell paying $84k
in case anyone's interested
 
Work in the US? No, thanks.
 
11:36 AM
@BartekBanachewicz I'm interested if monthly
 
Ell
lol
84k monthly
 
@Ell That is likely a yearly salary, if it is for USA.
 
@CatPlusPlus that's reserved for COBOL programmers
 
@VáclavZeman No shit
@AlexM. You seem obsessed with COBOL lately
Do you secretly want to be a COBOL programmer
 
I shouldn't be talking to myself-months-ago.
 
11:40 AM
@CatPlusPlus dear god, no
 
What happened at both sides
 
I recently had a discussion with someone and he recommended COBOL as a very good language to learn because "COBOL programmers make lots of money"
 
Enterprise programmers make lots of money in general
You don't have to learn a derelict language and condemn yourself to a life of maintenance work
 
@CatPlusPlus we do?
 
@Ell ok if it's in seattle, but pretty shitty if you have to migrate to the sillcon valley or NYC. living in a chicken cage (because high property price) while labouring 8 hours a day in a dungeon wouldn't be much fun
 
11:42 AM
@AlexM. If you want something obscure that is still in demand try learning shit about mainframes. I hear that they are still in use and the old farts are leaving and there is nobody to replace them.
 
Find a corporation that churns out business shit in Java and you're all set
 
I wouldn't even know where to go for a COBOL job
I never saw a COBOL opening post in my life
I only saw the profile of a COBOL programmer on linkedin, in my area
 
@AlexM. Some old banks maybe?
 
but that was about it
 
I worked in a company that used cobol - an energy company
cobol programs that sat on mainframe
took a hobby learning cobol back then, still remember there are 4 divisions in cobol
 
11:48 AM
@chmod711telkitty Weir hobby...
 
it only lasted a month IRC
I like to learn new things :p
 
@AlexM. Microsoft is always mocking you in one way or another when it comes to C++
hth
 
lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes please forget
i could use some squatting incoming
 
current hobby - overnight bushwalks that rated hard by experienced bushwalker/hikers & building my own house (I have never done anything remotely resemble this before)
 
11:50 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Already paid for.
 
guys
what's the fallacy of "did/can you make a better one" called
 
if I were to tell you there is no such a fallacy, you would not accept the reality, would you?
 
@BartekBanachewicz That sounds like an ad hominem argument.
 
don't like where this is going
 
Someone trying to dismiss your argument because you used it.
 
11:54 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes i don't think so
 
Ell
@LightnessRacesinOrbit oops.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Good job
 
Ell
you need a DC offset of say £800
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You need to spend less on hookers, dude.
 
thought lightness had a mortgage, when's the monthly deduction?
 
It's not tu quoque.
 
@chmod711telkitty right there in the graph dude
@R.MartinhoFernandes no it's not
tangential observation sorry
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You should probably have removed the y axis.
 
@Ell what's DC?
@R.MartinhoFernandes thought about it but it would be pretty meaningless then
 
Ell
@LightnessRacesinOrbit direct current :P Nvm >.<
 
11:56 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit to cock
 
("oh no you're 2p more overdrawn each month whatever shall you do?!")
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit we know how much you earn now!
 
I thought the trend was the important bit.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Good thing it's not my bank account, just a random image from the internet :)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit also what happened at the end of sept, why did the balance go up a bit?
 
11:57 AM
@BartekBanachewicz No, you don't.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes misclick
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit why is the income smaller in Oct compared to Sept?
 
@chmod711telkitty Refund from failed boiler repair job iirc
 
Telkitty with all the important questions
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit cough
 
11:58 AM
@TheForestAndTheTrees Expenses are a big chunk of my income and they vary by up to a few hundred pounds each month
"income"
@R.MartinhoFernandes ;)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ah fair enough
 
October pay was comparatively shit presumably because I was on holiday so much in Sept (therefore less claimable fuel expenditure ... though I spent plenty on my own instead)
 

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