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8:00 PM
@Puppy Controlling distribution. A DVD player you buy in Europe won't (normally) play a disc from the US, because discs in the US use a different encryption key from discs sold in Europe (and likewise Asia, etc.)
 
so it is copy protection, it's just cross-region rather than cross-person.
 
user1804599
dvd(dvd const&) = delete; // copy protection
7
 
I keep changing my opinion between "copy protection schemes might work and are ok" and "copy protection is inherently broken, and evil"
 
@Puppy No, not about copy protection, about distribution. If (for example) you buy a disc from the US (and never even try to copy it) it won't play on the player you bought in Europe. Conversely, if somebody copies the encrypted bit stream from one disc to another, it can play back in the same region just fine.
@BenjaminGruenbaum I think that partly because you're breaking the single responsibility principle, putting inherently unrelated concepts together. "inherently broken" and "evil" are mostly unrelated, as are "might work" and "ok".
 
@JerryCoffin the point was to show I am moving from rather extreme points, it's not on one axis.
Then again I'm pretty bad at expressing myself.
 
user1804599
8:06 PM
Time for milk.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Likewise. My point was that being effective doesn't mean they're necessarily ok, and being inherently broken doesn't mean they're necessarily evil. IMO, they are mostly inherently broken, but the "evil" part mostly stems from how people have attempted to use them, not something inherent to the basic idea of copy protection itself.
 
Yeah, I think we can both agree that they don't really work well.
On the other hand, after pirating almost everything for a decade - for the last 2-3 years I legally consume most of my music, video and software.
 
Did you need effective copy protection to come to that point?
 
If I want to have a song on my song player I usually purchase it because it's easier and it's backed up. Same for apps - then again I didn't always have a stream of income.
@LucDanton no, I needed it to become easier to do. I never minded paying to be honest, money wasn't the deal breaker - it was the fact it was harder to do.
 
I still pirate the things where it's hard or impossible to legally download them in a reasonable period.
films.
 
8:13 PM
Well - for some things money was a factor, I used Photoshop illegally for about 2 years before I bought it, and even when I bought it I got an old license and then an upgrade license since that was much cheaper.
 
@Puppy yeah, me too. If it's simpler I'd pirate it, but I try not to.
 
I haven't pirated anything in a long time
never actually needed to
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Interesting. I’ve had the opposite experience, where so many obstacles got in the way of doing the right thing. It’s not so bad these days though.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'm much the same. Used to be the pretty much the first thing I did when I bought a DVD was rip a copy with the previews (and such) removed, because the original wouldn't let me skip across them and go straight to what I actually wanted to watch.
 
8:15 PM
for the level of art I can output, the gimp or at most paint tool sai (cheap) would be enough
basically sketches for things I have in mind
and placeholders
 
@LucDanton yeah, that was my experience for a long time. I remember trying to buy, download and listen to a song legally in 2002 or 2003. It was so much harder than getting it from KaZaA or eMule or soulseek or whatever it was in those days.
 
@CatPlusPlus how's you find out? Was it working?
 
Or the same experience? Sorry I’m not sure I got you.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Righto.
 
in fact, we're all pretty much expressing the same opinion.
legal channels are too much effort.
 
@JerryCoffin most DVD players have override codes
 
8:16 PM
if I could buy a 1080p stream of a film on release date, I probably would.
 
@Puppy ...and the product is often inferior.
 
It just shows you human nature. Piracy was never an issue.
 
oooh yeah I pirate music like a sonovabitch
 
also that.
 
I don't pirate software though
 
8:17 PM
I don't pirate software because I get it for free. In all honesty most software I use I'd just not use if I didn't get it for free.
 
I don't tend to pirate software because a) software fights back in ways plain media doesn't, and b) everything I need is typically free.
 
lol, are you lot trying to rationalise piracy again?
 
I like the .net stack for example, but I wouldn't mind using Python and not C# that much.
@thecoshman we're discussing the rise and fall of it.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Piracy was an issue, but because they were doing a crappy job, not because their customers were/are evil, greedy, dishonest, etc.
 
8:18 PM
right now, the only pirated software I have is VS.
and I highly doubt Microsoft gives a shit about one random guy who could just use Express anyway.
in fact, for VS "14" I probably will.
 
@JerryCoffin yeah, it was a different issue.
 
@Puppy I’ve had the option to rent/purchase (doesn’t matter which) a film not long enough, and I didn’t go through with it. The preview had subtitles (because as a ‘convenience’ it geolocalised me) that I couldn’t turn off, and I had no idea if the final product would be the same. I’m a bit baffled that’s supposed to be a commercial product, but such is Youtube.
 
I actually had an interesting experience with piracy, one of my earliest experiences with internet marketing 10 years ago was with it. People were stealing flash games and movies and copy protection sucked - remember, in 2004 flash was big. So our solution was to sponsor games instead of buying them - adding a button to the menu in a non-intrustive way.
I'd rather be the consumer and pay for it today, but a lot of people including me in the past wouldn't mind being the product to save money - kind of like with Google.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum What? You clueless morons! You should have known that the only way to go was to sue at least a few thousand of your customers.
 
@Puppy I don't think any car company would miss the loss of just one car, and I could just get a cheap one any way, so It's ok for me to take a nice shiney new fancy car.
 
8:22 PM
@JerryCoffin Who were mostly 8-16 year old kids :D
@thecoshman piracy isn't theft.
 
@thecoshman It would be if nobody else was deprived of a car.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum So sue their disabled grandparents, underprivileged babysitter, etc.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum the lost sale is though.
 
A more accurate analogy is cloning one of their cars, or making one of their cars using their designs himself. He is not stealing the car.
@thecoshman right, there is a potential loss of revenue in piracy, but it's not theft. I'm not justifying it but it certainly is different.
 
@thecoshman What lost sale?
 
8:24 PM
@Puppy they can make more, it's only one car they are not getting to sell. It's not like they have to put money into making it regardless of them selling it.
 
I'm not gonna pay for VS either way.
 
It's not morally OK to pirate software in my opinion - but it's different from theft.
 
@Puppy you didn't buy that car, so why do you get to drive it?
 
they give VS away for free.
 
user1804599
 
8:24 PM
@thecoshman I also didn't buy the Earth, so why do I get to live on it?
nor did I purchase my own personal oxygen creation system in the Amazon.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I agree. But if you pirate something, you are avoiding paying for it.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum depends on whether or not the pirate would have been able to pay or if there was any way for him to pay
 
@thecoshman That's not true at all.
 
@Puppy not the version you have chosen to just use.
 
if a guy who would have never bought said software no matter what gets a pirated copy, then it's no loss for the maker
 
8:25 PM
@thecoshman We all do immoral things daily, we use products that are the result of abuse, wear clothes and use technology products made by kids robbed of their childhood, live in our comfy houses in luxury while people are starving and mass-kill animals for pleasure. I accept the fact I do immoral things, it's a give and take.
 
@thecoshman I fail to see how it materially affects anybody, ever, whether or not I have some features I don't actually even use.
 
I'm more OK with the fact @Puppy didn't pay for VS than I am with the fact I'm enjoying an iPhone that was made by abused workers.
They're both wrong, I just don't think they're both huge deals.
 
nah
 
@thecoshman of course, and that's morally wrong. We agree on that.
 
I don't think it's wrong at all not to pay for VS.
it's the maximum result.
 
8:26 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum oh I've got no problem with his choices either. I pirate films plenty too, but then I find it very hard to find physical copies of older films
 
Microsoft are wasting their time trying to get non-business-customers to buy better versions of VS... if they spend any at all.
 
@Puppy they're actually giving it mostly for free now, I'm still waiting for them to open source the closed source parts and move to a provider model.
 
I just generally find it amusing how you (puppy) justify it buy saying you wouldn't pay for it, so you may as well just take it.
 
We'd still pay for Azure, and we're not actually paying for anything else anyway.
 
yeah, random individuals are probably not the target of VS Pro
and Microsoft doesn't plan their budget according to them
or their incomes
 
8:28 PM
@AlexM. Ultimate, I think, but same principle.
 
Lots of people get it for free - students, teachers, startups.
 
yes, but that's because colleges paid for it
or other sponsors
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum people probably would pay for a constantly updating VS with bugs getting fixed often and well.
 
in one way or another
 
@thecoshman There's no outcome in which I pay Microsoft for VS, so I fail to see what they lose by me having Ultimate instead of Express.
 
8:28 PM
@thecoshman I'd buy a unicorn too :D
 
@thecoshman if puppy wouldn't ever pay for VS then it's not a loss for Microsoft
 
@Puppy I just fail to see how you go from "I wouldn't pay for it" to "I'll just use it".
 
and considering how willing he is to pay for VS, I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that Microsoft won't ever get puppy's money for VS
 
@thecoshman What you fail to see is that there's no difference between "I don't use it" and "I use it".
 
It's like saying I wouldn't pay for a cinema ticket, and they don't sell out the screenings, so I may as well just sit in and watch it too.
any way, time to watch some totally legal films :P
 
8:31 PM
@thecoshman except cinemas have people designated to stop you from entering :D
 
@AlexM. They do sell at (drastically) reduced prices to students, faculty, etc.
 
@JerryCoffin sell?
 
@thecoshman I did a thing that should be actually visible from the frontend
 
pretty sure everything on DreamSpark is free
I got VS Ult and Win 8 free
 
It worked because there are two identical databases with identical credentials but on different hosts
 
8:32 PM
or do you mean they sell the DreamSpark thing to institutions?
 
DreamSpark doesn't let you use anything for commercial.
 
that's good, because I'm only using Windows :D
anyway, DreamSpark is a great way for students to get out of college and do Microsoft shit
 
@AlexM. Not Dreamspark, but the bigger one, MSDNAA, they do sell.
 
@AlexM. except office IIRC.
 
MSDNAA is DreamSpark
 
8:33 PM
.NET! ASP! MVC! C#!
 
@AlexM. I mean even people who aren't signed up for DreamSpark can buy Microsoft products at (drastically) reduced prices if they have (for example) a student or faculty ID (or at least they used to be able to do so--I haven't checked in a while).
 
anything else sucks
 
Or was, before they renamed it
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I don't have the option to download Office
 
ah yeah
 
8:33 PM
MSDN subscriptions is what you're thinking of
 
I searched for it and failed
 
they may have changed that system.
 
@JerryCoffin Or just a .edu email
Of which I have.
 
@Puppy They seem to change them pretty nearly constantly.
 
but when I was at uni, Dreamspark was the baby one for everyone and MSDNAA was the bigger one for institutions that paid for it
 
8:34 PM
Not all products have student licenses and it's mostly basic versions anyway
 
I'm not familiar with MSDNAA
 
AA stands for Academic Alliance
 
when I heard that I was having DSpark access I just went there, downloaded Win8 and ran away
@JerryCoffin that I did not know
 
Download Win10 lel
Do they let you use the tech preview for free
 
8:35 PM
aren't all tech previews free?
 
They are...?
 
@AlexM. I have BizSpark and it includes that.
 
Also that fucking chat message folding
A shitty workaround
For non-existent problem
GOOD JOB
 
@AlexM. I'm not sure about all, but many certainly are.
 
8:36 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum BizSpark is afaik srs bzns
 
DreamSpark Premium (formerly MSDN Academic Alliance (MSDNAA)) is a Microsoft program available to academic organizations, mainly colleges and universities, although there is also a high school version. The participating schools pay an annual fee for the service, in exchange for which, applicable departments (computer science, computer engineering, information technology, and related fields of that organization) as well as students and faculty can acquire licensed copies of Microsoft software such as Microsoft Windows, Visual Studio and other products. The list of software each college and university...
 
All our uni is on linux, but there is still BizSpark for students.
 
sbi
Rome's pretty much in ruins tonight.
 
Ehh, I don't really see any benefits of Ulti vs Express...
 
plugins?
 
8:37 PM
I guess you're blind then?
 
you can't use plugins on Express
and from what I've heard, once you use stuff like ReSharper and Visual Assist, you don't want to go back
 
*Professional
I meant professional
 
same thing
 
You can use plugins on professional
 
the lack of plugins is probably the most crippling thing for Express
 
Oh wait, we pay for ReSharper and WebStorm, so I guess we do pay for some software stuff.
 
3
Q: Is it kosher to memory map a file a second time but with a larger size?

djcouchycouchIn my application, one file on disk is created and memory mapped with an initial size. If I apply a second memory mapping to the file, with a larger size, the file expands to the new size. Windows lets me do this without error but I don't know if it's actually kosher. Are there any problems with ...

 
I don't use any plugins anyways.
 
@Cicada I remember I saw it done and that it worked but that doesn't actually mean much.
 
And I would certainly rather use something that allows commercial use. Anything acquired through DreamSpark is not eligible for this.
 
8:41 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum It's the use of "kosher" that makes me laugh
 
I'm tempted to open a question and ask if it's a sin to hack systems
 
@Nooble Yes, they are. As long as you're student.
 
No they are not.
Even if you are a student.
 
It is
 
You cannot use them commercially.
 
8:43 PM
@Cicada Oy Vey
 
"Except as provided below, you may not use the DreamSpark Subscription software for commercial purposes or commercial software application development"
"Microsoft licenses the software to you for educational use. This means that you can use the software without restriction for school assignments or personal projects. If you write or design something that you wish to sell, however, you need to purchase a standard licensed copy of the Microsoft software before you sell your product"
 
@MartinJames It's missing a stop?
 
I will say it again, you are not allowed to use any software obtained from DreamSpark for any commercial activity.
 
Yes you can
 
8:45 PM
Do you have any proof of this?
 
> But… GabeN isn’t female. Now I’m soooo confused…
at first I was like "what?"
but then "ooooh"
 
@Cicada he wants it! :^
 
If you would care to take a look at there EULA, you would know.
 
No thanks
 
there there
nobody cares
 
8:46 PM
@sbi Hell Yeah!
 
user1804599
omg februari 2015
 
sbi
@bamboon I got only aware of the game around the 35th minute, and it was already 0:5 by then...
 
@Nooble malloc(sizeof(your_mom_t)) => out of memory
 
@Cicada Check the top answer on the question I linked.
 
8:47 PM
I'm not your servant
Check it yourself
 
@sbi haha yeah, apparently you haven't learned from Germany-Brazil ;)
 
You cannot use DreamSpark for commercial use as per the DSP-EULA of DreamSpark linked here
 
Yes you can
 
sbi
@bamboon What was there to learn? I don't have the CL's calender in my head, and went to find a stream immediately when I learned about the game. But most of the damage where already done by then...
 
Clearly, I am correct. No need for petty disagreement on your side.
 
8:51 PM
@TonyTheLion the slowness of what? It's not slow for me. It just lacks basic intelligent UX and general features
 
If you at least provided a quote
But no, nothing
 
@Jefffrey translation: I don't like the idea of working :)
 
can some owner clean this shit up please? this ain't reddit
 
@sbi That 5:0 after 30mins is quite possible this year. Around every two weeks on Tuesdays & Wednesdays at 20:45 is a good ballpark figure to remember.
 
@Cicada You really are oblivious aren't ya?
 
sbi
8:52 PM
@bamboon OK, I'll try to keep that in mind...
 
@Nooble Who are you?
 
@sbi it's rampant!
 
@Jerry @Tony @Xeo @R.MartinhoFernandes save me from the image spam
 
and @me
 
Ell
Evening folks
 
8:53 PM
Hi
 
user1804599
HELO
 
RCPT TO
 
4 messages moved to bin
@Puppy you've been saved
 
thaanks
glad to know that after all this time you still remember your master
:P
 
@sehe it loads slow here, and becomes unresponsive when trying to use it sometimes
 
user1804599
8:55 PM
Spotify is not slow on my machine.
 
that's what she said
 
user1804599
Because I don't use it.
 
1 message moved to bin
 
user1804599
Ha ha.
 
you're turd
 
user1804599
8:56 PM
Are you grad, undergrad or leningrad?
 
stalingrad
 
user1804599
My parents call me "Rad."
 
user1804599
Sometimes "Radke."
 
Why not Radick
 
zalenka
 

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