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6:00 PM
They do this nasty thing where they pay you 70% of your salary and then 30% is "overtime", and there is a clause that you always get the overtime payment.
 
@JerryCoffin Speaking of which, did you know that employment is an anagram of empty lemon?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Is that a pension kind of thing?
 
I get paid by hour regardless
 
I think there's something similar here.
 
well the only thing bad is that I need the job ASAP
 
6:01 PM
@Jefffrey no, pension here is regulated pretty well actually, the company has to give you 6.5 percent extra and you put another 2.5 percent. Just overtime.
 
I don't get paid or compensated in any way for overtime, besides a "thank you"
 
Well, ^
Also, equity.
 
sbi
@Jefffrey Huh? I'm just not here as much as you guys are, plus I don't have the attention span of the common mosquito as some of you seem to. That means that between question and answer there sometimes are a few hours of delay. That doesn't necessarily mean I'm the one keeping it going, though. I just reacted to something you said to me, after all.
@TonyTheLion You should demand a rise then.
 
I shall
 
@sbi I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish with this message.
 
6:02 PM
"Arise, my minions!"
 
sbi
@BenjaminGruenbaum How about: "I am voicing my surprise?"
 
There is an atmosphere in startups here where you get equity and everyone is nice so you're expected to put free overtime.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Here, until last year, the company had to pay you extra but to the government. And the government would use those money to pay your pension. Or something along those lines.
 
@Jefffrey that's.... odd.
 
Which is kinda like baby sitting every citizen in making sure they keep money for their pension.
But I might be mistaken.
 
6:03 PM
> Linux Mint is the most popular desktop Linux distribution and the 3rd most widely used home operating system behind Microsoft Windows and Apple Mac OS.
wait, is this true?
 
@sbi the "attention span of the common mosquito as some of you seem to" part, but meh.
 
I mean is it more adopted than ubuntu?
 
@AlexM. I don't think so. But it's getting fairly popular, yes.
 
they don't provide numbers with their claims
 
I'd say it's still lagging far behind noobuntu
And anywhore there are more popular linux distributions than mint
 
sbi
6:04 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Well, I dunno about you, but to me it certainly seems that many of the people here will drop a topic as soon as some diversion... OH LOOK, SHINY! ...um, what was I saying?
 
@sbi oh, I thought you were trying to insult Jefffrey there, my bad.
 
It's not nearly as true any more, but at one time many startups were poorly enough funded that they typically paid next to nothing in exchange for stock options. Quite a few people at Microsoft (for one example) literally almost lived in their offices for years (offices contained couches that were often used for sleeping). Although their per-hour pay was horrible for a while, many are now multimillionaires or billionaires.
 
@sbi Sbi, please. Stop pinging me regarding LRiO and/or sehe. I don't care. I told you my version, you mocked it. I think that at some point I've had an idea of what your opinion is. It's fine. Now, just please stop it.
 
sbi
@BenjaminGruenbaum "some of you"
 
Corporate jobs will pay more now (and give much better benefits), but much less chance of a huge payoff like that can.
 
sbi
6:06 PM
@Jefffrey I didn't mock it. Also, you just pinged me regarding it.
 
Okay.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Aral?
 
camels are cute
 
6:07 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum In his defense I have a fairly short memory.
 
they're like horses except not really
 
@sbi No, Kiev.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Kiev's on the Dnepr river, which is unlikely to dry out.
 
Aug 28 at 19:37, by Cat Plus Plus
@Jefffrey Loungers have a goldfish-like attention span
 
@JerryCoffin it's like that quora answer.
^ worth reading.
 
6:09 PM
guys
help me pick a new job
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz blowjob
 
> Some day, suddenly he shows up with a constantly flowing stream of water behind his back. Drowned.
 
become a gardner
 
user1804599
cotton picker
 
6:10 PM
@BartekBanachewicz serve hamburgers at mcdonald's
 
@Jefffrey you forgot that Bartek hasn't done enough programming yet to hate it
soon
 
@sbi Transliterate the marking on the near boat from Cyrillic to English.
 
@TonyTheLion eh
 
user1804599
> cotton picker: a girl that has lost the string on the end of her tampon.
 
oh gowd
 
6:11 PM
no srsl
 
lol
 
user1804599
lol urban dictionary
 
I don't think I want to work in gamedev
they write shitty code
 
keep your sanity
 
6:11 PM
yes they do
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Work with Xeo, writing not just shitty code, but shitty code in ActionScript!
 
two people from the creation teams joined mine
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Yes, I had done so immediately. (I learned to read Cyrillic beginning in the early 80s.) But I have actually been to Kiev in the 90s, and this looks like nothing I have seen in the area.
 
the sloppiness made me think about switching to something else after Gameloft stops providing
dunno, I could join Garmin or Bosch and work on boring shit
that at least must be thoroughly tested and thought out
 
@rightføld lol
@AlexM. hm, that sounds cool
 
6:13 PM
right now I'm forced to work on half of a solution that "will have bugs" and "will not work on all cases" because "meh, we can't provide something that works right now anyway so just ship that"
 
go work for Spotify and fix the slowness
 
I think I don't like the professional side of programming.
 
if only they listened to me and didn't try to come up with a solution that's supposed to cover any changes they might want to make 2 years from now
 
I remember that someone else here told me the same thing.
 
user1804599
I like it sans the clients.
 
6:14 PM
Maybe Rapptz.
 
@Jefffrey yea become a doctor instead
 
user1804599
@TonyTheLion bad pun
 
@BartekBanachewicz not to me :D
ok, maybe Bosch does
 
user1804599
Bochs.
 
in particular they have jobs relating to stuff like smart systems that detect shit in front of cars
and participate in autopilot crap
working on nav systems at Garmin sounds boring as fuck
 
user1804599
6:15 PM
I want to learn more about mathematics and do excersises.
 
I've done journey planning
 
user1804599
I also want to learn how to spell exerscises.
 
it was hard and impossible
 
@rightføld exercise
 
@sbi Yup--I didn't say anything about Kiev as a geographic entity. But the boat in the picture is clearly marked as "Kiev"...
 
6:15 PM
exer - cise
 
user1804599
exorcist
 
user1804599
Did I do it correctly?
 
you are close
keep trying
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Ah. Misunderstanding. I was asking for the geographical location.
 
Job description:



• Developing application
• Analyzing and solving problems with software
• Cooperating with a team
 
user1804599
6:16 PM
hey bartek isn't that an idea
 
user1804599
Become exorcist!
 
user1804599
Or priest!
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's a... detailed description.
 
@BartekBanachewicz that's like the T in <T>
 
6:17 PM
@BartekBanachewicz lol
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Ah, so you're not part of a team, you just cooperate with one.
 
@BartekBanachewicz "Doing stuff, and things"
 
@sbi Hey. Does working remotely work? In Berlin in general?
 
@BartekBanachewicz For a junior? :/
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
6:17 PM
also what are you waiting for star it
 
@rightføld You want this book?
 
user1804599
Bartek is pregnant?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "Also computers"
 
user1804599
Bartek junior!
 
@Cicada uh, I don't think I want to be a junior anymore
 
6:18 PM
@rightføld pls no
 
user1804599
@TonyTheLion What is it about?
 
Discrete and Combinatorial math
can't you read?:
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well IDK when the qualification "junior" stops, is it 24 or something
@TonyTheLion Discreet Math
 
I don't know why I have this book
 
user1804599
6:19 PM
@TonyTheLion Let me look that op.
 
user1804599
I don't know what it means.
 
@rightføld "How many different sets of 5 cards can I withdraw from a 52 poker card set with at least 1 A and 1 K?"
stuff like that
 
Discrete mathematics is the study of mathematical structures that are fundamentally discrete rather than continuous. In contrast to real numbers that have the property of varying "smoothly", the objects studied in discrete mathematics – such as integers, graphs, and statements in logic – do not vary smoothly in this way, but have distinct, separated values. Discrete mathematics therefore excludes topics in "continuous mathematics" such as calculus and analysis. Discrete objects can often be enumerated by integers. More formally, discrete mathematics has been characterized as the branch of mathematics...
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey Oh, that was about the only mathematics I got in high school and I never got a sufficient score except for the final exam.
 
@Cicada when you're good enough? Or have enough experience?
 
6:20 PM
@rightføld That's combinatorics. Discrete math is something else
 
@BartekBanachewicz What's "good enough" and "enough experience"
 
It's graphs mostly
 
@rightføld Or Saint Dogbert! dilbert.com/strips/comic/1994-02-01
 
@Cicada no idea
 
6:21 PM
Super simple stuff anyway
 
I have 2.5 years of experience
 
Both of those are subfields of discrete mathematics.
 
in what?
writing shitty software?
 
user1804599
I want to learn about algebra and differentiation and stuff.
 
I have way more than 2.5 years of experience in writing shitty software
 
user1804599
6:22 PM
But when deciding to read something it's always difficult to predict what knowledge and experience is required beforehand.
 
With algebra the knowledge required is so low that almost any 10yo kid could start studying it
 
@rightføld For Calculus this book is quite good. I own it and have read parts of it.
 
@Jefffrey writing good software
 
sbi
@BartekBanachewicz IME, 60% of good software is made from the communication of those writing it. And, call me an old fart, but I do not believe remote communication can ever be as efficient as face-to-face time. There's nothing like scanning the faces of the others in the room deciding whom to pick to be your rubber duck. Or just talking to that colleague whose API you can't wrap your head around during lunch break. Or pairing. And that's not even mentioning the fact that working alone is quite unsocial.
So I do not believe in remote working in general. However, I love companies that allow me to do it if need arises. (A kid becomes ill or I need the afternoon off and the remainder isn't worth the 3hrs commute or whatever else.)
 
nice
 
6:24 PM
GREAT IVE BEEN DOING MAINTENANCE ON WRONG DATABASE
9
 
lol
 
gj cat
 
user1804599
rollback
 
sbi
6:24 PM
@CatPlusPlus Oh well, for someone who has 9 lives, this shouldn't be so bad a problem.
 
HA HA
 
@sbi true. That was a random thought (I wholeheartedly agree)
 
The database been moved, but old and new credentials are identical, and the old copy wasn't removed for whatever reason
 
user1804599
@TonyTheLion What does it discuss?
 
And I forgot to update the alias with the new host
 
6:26 PM
@sbi There are also times you just need to crank out a bunch of code, and I find that often goes well alone. Pair programming isn't always the perfect solution.
 
@CatPlusPlus Don't sweat it. I once did some testing with the debug database set and accidentally left it connected. Nobody noticed for three weeks:)
 
I wish I could try pair programming
 
sbi
@Cicada Find a shop where you fit in, can do what you can do best, get appreciation for doing it well, and where the good work you do is seen by your superior, and you'll grow out of being a junior in 6 months.
 
@rightføld It takes you through limits and then differentiation and then integration, on a really good gradient. It explains it in a way that a beginner can understand
 
Maintenance script was plugged into correct one, it's just manual queries that weren't
So at least that
 
user1804599
6:27 PM
@TonyTheLion ok nice
 
@Jefffrey As in 'programming on one computer with 2 people'? Not worth it
Waste of everybody's time
 
wat no
 
@TonyTheLion :(
 
@MartinJames Why does that make you sad?
 
@Jefffrey no
well it depends
on how much you like to be uh
violated
 
6:28 PM
it wasn't a question
wat
 
@Jefffrey we do it here (as in my apartment) often. It's nice.
 
@TonyTheLion 'cos I should have posted it:)
 
it's enough for someone to look at my screen while I'm coding
to tell them to gtfo
 
@Jefffrey Then what do you think pair programming is
 
@MartinJames oh ok :)
 
6:28 PM
@CatPlusPlus Fight night.
 
you do a project in 2
 
@sbi Finding the right shop is difficult :(
 
@Jefffrey that's pair programming
@Jefffrey that's not pair programming
 
2 people working together in a project
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin No, not always. We do it maybe 30% of the time. I wish it was more, but I bet >60% would be too much. (FWIW, I wasn't at work yesterday, because I needed the afternoon off for a celebration. I had been writing tests for days, and I just spent the morning writing tests at home. That was OK for the day, helped a lot organizationally, and might even have been hindered by pairing.)
 
6:29 PM
@Jefffrey that's teaming up with someone
 
are you guys trolling me now
 
pair programming is two people at a screen
 
sbi
@Cicada Yup. That's hard.
 
@Jefffrey no
 
one writes code, the other does code review on the way
 
6:29 PM
@Jefffrey It's much worse than that.
 
and they switch places
it's the most awkward thing to hit programming
 
@Jefffrey That's just working in a team
 
since...
since APL
 
There's nothing special about number '2'
Pair programming has a special name because it's not just working in a team of 2
 
@CatPlusPlus Yes there is. Only even prime number. Hah.
 
6:30 PM
ok
 
:19539925 Some manangement consultant thought of it and got paid a huge amount of cash, so it must be good.
 
user1804599
APL is really nice.
 
maybe I just want to try to program in a team
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus I thought so, too. In fact, I was against pair programming. – Until I switched jobs, ended up in a shop where they did little else, and had it done one day. Now I love it.
 
@MartinJames why didn't I get the ping from that
 
user1804599
6:31 PM
We do pair programming on occasion. Chairs with wheels ftw.
 
@Jefffrey Team is OK. You then only get to fight over the interfaces.
 
thanks jeff
 
good evening
 
sbi
@Puppy You work late hours.
 
I went shopping on the way home
 
6:32 PM
he commutes/masturbates/shops
3
 
just moved into a new flat don'cha know
 
Programming in a team is necessary evil
 
it's not evil
why is it evil?
 
I could be back here by like 6pm if I wanted to be
 
What's purple and commutes?
 
6:32 PM
A dog?
 
sbi
Cats are solitude creatures. Humans aren't.
 
Puppy wearing one of his sister's coats?
 
@CatPlusPlus can be quite nice if you have nice coworkers
 
an entity that is purple and commutes?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes abelian aubergine
 
sbi
6:33 PM
@Jefffrey That's coming from someone who hates to set a foot out the door when he ran out of food.
 
@Puppy I didn't know that was possible without taxidermy.
 
user1804599
> Still letting f(x) = x^2, what do you make of f(horse)? Obviously this is undefined, since you can’t square a horse.
 
user1804599
@TonyTheLion Minecraft proved this book wrong.
 
@Jefffrey Abandon all hope
 
@Cicada Can be--a lot depends on your ratio of flexibility to desirability, so to speak. If you're flexible enough, it can be easy. If you're desirable enough, they're more likely to be flexible. If both sides lack flexibility, it gets a lot harder in a hurry.
 
6:33 PM
@rightføld lol
 
@rightføld You could cube a horse.
 
> Recurrences
 
sbi
@Jefffrey The cat is well known for its misanthropy.
 
worst nightmare
I don't think I get it
 
@sbi You should meet Alex.
 
sbi
6:35 PM
@JerryCoffin Are you talking about your marriage there? :)
 
@sbi Oh right
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes The guy from the song?
 
No, the one in the room.
 
@Jefffrey They break my beautiful code :(
 
He's an elephant?
 
6:35 PM
lol
 
I don't even know what misanthropy is what are these words
k, googling
 
@CatPlusPlus lol
@AlexM. you hate humanity or something
 
I do?
hmm
 
hmm I suppose that the fact I'm looking for a full-time job will help
 
@sbi No, but could just about as well be. A job is a lot like a marriage--except most people spend more (waking) time with their coworkers than with their spouse, at least for the duration of the job.
 
6:36 PM
that's the definition dummy
 
yeah found the wiki page
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Why would I do such a thing?
 
Still working
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin I just thought, "If both sides lack flexibility, it gets a lot harder in a hurry." sounds a lot like a relationship.
@Jefffrey I'm home already
 
6:38 PM
I'm definitely enjoying the time spent alone more than that when I'm interacting with people, but I wouldn't say I hate humanity :P
 
so
 
@sbi I think it's a good advice for all kinds of human relations
 
only nine days until payday
 
@AlexM. ikr
 
@Puppy It was free on steam the other day
 
6:38 PM
I have to fake so much when around people
 
I have to run away when around people
 
sbi
@Cicada Yes, but few of those are such a good victims of jokes as is the marriage.
 
ask too many questions and I get tired and can't answer properly, if you're a stranger
 
@sbi Yup--work is a relationship. Maybe not quite as close a relationship as the idealized marriage of which romantics dream, but probably closer than a lot of real marriages (though I doubt I'm really telling you anything you don't already know, quite possibly better than I do).
 
or rather not a close friend
 
sbi
6:40 PM
@JerryCoffin Actually, compared to my long-term relationships work relationships pale considerably. I have aways been the the symbiotic kind of partner. :)
 
Like fungus
 
sbi
@Puppy You're losing weight, I suppose? :)
 
as for working in teams, I am able to keep it up and concentrate on work
 
Who checked Chandler's talk, yet?
 
6:41 PM
maybe I should start my own company
 
but it's true that when the other two guys joined my team (which only consisted of me) I lost quite a lot of my balance
 
@sbi No idea. Probably not.
 
and I've been slowing down
 
sbi
@Puppy If you cannot buy food?!
 
so nah, I'm not very good at working in teams :\ not sure how this will affect my future
 
6:42 PM
@sbi Oh, I'm certainly not trying to cast aspersions on your relationships (couldn't since I know nearly nothing about them), just guessing that you've seen at least a few marriages, like I certainly have, where they at least seemed more like business partners than spouses.
 
@sbi What makes you think I cannot buy food?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm curious though
what made you say that :P
I don't remember exhibiting any such behavior
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Oh, but you do know that they broke. That's quite important a piece of knowledge to have about them. (And I have seen few of such marriages.)
@Puppy What makes you think I was serious? The smiley?
 
hail raining down on my window
 
@AlexM. It definitely restricts your options when it comes to software development. There are a few kinds of programming that can be done alone (e.g., I'd guess most mobile "apps" are one-person efforts), but not very many.
 
6:44 PM
@sbi What makes you think I was paying attention? The replies?
 
sbi
^See, @Benjamin, here you have the common attention span in this room.
 
brb, meeting
 
@JerryCoffin @AndyProwl updated version with your feedback incorporated, thanks!
 
@JerryCoffin well damn :(
 
@sbi Yes, but to me that tends to indicate rather opposite (not proof, but at least some indication). From what I've seen, people who only expect a distant, business-like relationship are likely to stay together because they have little reason to break up. It's people who expect something else (and probably get it, at least for a while, who break up when things aren't what they should be).
 
sbi
6:47 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'd prefer this.
 
maybe it's just me getting exhausted due to too much interaction with others, I'll have to experiment
I don't mind being that guy in a team that does his job but would rather not talk to anyone while doing it
right now I'm sitting between my team mates
so I'm getting constant attention and random questions and stuff
 
my place is pretty good about that.
 
last time I got interrupted to find out how Xcode was not showing some sort of error
 
but then again
I'm the new guy so I tend to be the one bothering other people
 
even though I obviously didn't care about Xcode and that error
 
6:49 PM
the botheree rather than the bothered.
 
the guy just wanted to tell me
 
@sbi Have you read Fate of Worlds, btw?
 
@Puppy you are DeadMG, you bothering people has nothing to do with you being the new guy ;-)
 
@Puppy You found a job?
 
Okay I got through stupid Drupal tasks so far so good
 
6:50 PM
@FilipRoséen-refp lol
ITT Cat reports live from his job
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes I read Fleet of Worlds, that I know for sure. I cannot remember having read Fate of World. Of course, I might have forgotten that I read a book of this title (and given that my books are currently all stowed away, I cannot check it either).
 
admittedly my innate superiority probably bothers them somewhat
 
@sbi: I emphasize once again, however, that I wasn't originally talking about your own relationships nearly as much as the simple fact that you're one of the few other people here old enough to have had much chance to observe others' relationships without being so directly involved (e.g., your parents) that it's hard to see clearly.
 
@sbi It's the last one in the series.
 
let me tell you though what's been bothering me
my ass.
 
6:52 PM
@Puppy you talk about your own superiority way too much for it to be healthy
 
I ate something that disagreed with me on Sunday
it's been pretty unhappy since then
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sigh. I dunno. :(
 
@TonyTheLion Empirical observation
 
Ow.
I thought of a terrible joke.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Good you didn't tell us then.
 
6:54 PM
@sbi Much better than slightly later
 
sbi
@Jefffrey Indeed.
 
ugh, whenever I use the seek bar on youtube chrome starts stuttering
I googled it and this was a bug in chromium 3 years ago too
I'm one step away from switching to another browser
my only other option is to... never use the seek bar
 
sbi
@AlexM. So you're behind current technology by about three years then?
 
@sbi it was marked as fixed though
 
lol
At least MS is honest and WONTFIXes things.
Think I'll have some pizza.
 
6:57 PM
Chrome is bad
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Pizza is always a good idea. Always.
 

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