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7:20 AM
@MarkGarcia I am waiting till I see std::network and std::filesystem
 
Vs already has filesystem afaik
 
@Borgleader Yes. Since VS11.
At least, AFAIK.
 
not the same thing
 
I think Filesystem v3 is the one to be accepted in the standard.
 
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl Also, a callback can occur on a different thread, (and so a different stack), than the one that set up the callback.
 
7:37 AM
ergh... it get's on my tits when the media present Moore's Law like it causes the increase in performance power, rather than it simply being an observation of how the technology increases.
@JerryCoffin isn't that base 1?
 
Early morning rant - why do common OS filesystems not support queue files, ie. where you can add records at the start and remove them at the end? Why is this useful data structure not available - I cannot think of any basic reason why it should not be possible to add a cluster at the start of a file? Maybe I should ask on SO.
 
@MartinJames how would you easily and efficiently add, say, three bytes at the start of a file?
 
@jalf Link in a new cluster and write the three bytes at the end?
 
@MartinJames I don't know of a file system where files aren't aligned on a larger block boundary
and I don't know of a filesystem which uses 3-byte blocks :p
 
@jalf Well, sure, you would need to write the whole block, but is that not what happens anyway in normal sequential files when writing at end and another block is needed?
 
7:51 AM
Well, that was obvious. So apparently Mozilla invented the term e10s to refer to a new Firefox feature
because e10s => electrolysis => the code name for their multiprocess work
 
@jalf Heh - the FF feature I most want is fewer FF updates :)
 
@MartinJames the file has a length (with byte granularity), so it can handle that the last block is not fully used. But it assumes each file to start on a block boundary
 
@jalf Ok, yes, it would require one more file block index for the first block.
 
because otherwise, specifying the address of a file would take, oh, say, a dozen more bits. For every time the file system needs to store a reference to a file. Which it does a lot because you have a lot of files ;)
 
@jalf No, the location of the file on disk is stored in one place, in any FS format. If it were in multiple places, then reallocating the file would be expensive.
 
7:55 AM
I think a better question would be "why doesn't the OS provide a queue abstraction on top of the filesystem. It could have a special "magic" file format which tracks this additional metadata, on top of a normal block-aligned file (which can then just have some unused bytes at the beginning of it)
 
The reason the mentioned feature isn't commonplace is that it's not in POSIX. I'm pretty sure if you dig deep enough you can find a few filesystems that do support it, including most "advanced" ones.
 
@Potatoswatter sure, but you still have a lot of files. And you have (or had?) hardware limitations on address lengths
 
(And yeah, even without FS format support, the OS could still provide such a service.)
@jalf There's no hardware limitation.
 
Meh. POSIX. That's the octal shit, right?
 
there used to be the 48-bit thing, no?
 
7:57 AM
You need 9-13 bits to store how many bytes to ignore at the beginning. Compare that with the size of the file name.
 
@Potatoswatter I think that the lower levels would have to support the linking in of extra clusters at the start of a file.
 
I admit I'm not an expert on filesystems :)
 
The size we're talking about is equivalent to the null terminating bytes in the file names.
@MartinJames The OS can support such a thing by building on the low-level concept of a file and adding an extra layer.
 
Is my question too broad for an SO question? Maybe some filesystem expert will have an answer.
 
@MartinJames Yes, too broad. No, it's not a technical filesystem question.
 
7:59 AM
:((
 
A better question would be to ask which popular filesystems already support this feature. I'd be surprised if there weren't a few. And ask how to access it… there might be a widely-supported Linux fcntl.
 
@MartinJames too open-ended, I'd guess ("why doesn't X have feature Y" is a recipe for getting closed)
 
I've personally been stuck using HFS since 1990… I'm only enough of a filesystem expert to be miserable. (OK, not really.)
 
Anyway, you'd be breaking a fairly fundamental assumption that all major filesystems rely on. That's not to say it couldn't be done, or even that it would necessarily be costly, just that it would affect a lot of different aspects of the filesystem, so "why isn't it done" is unlikely to have a simple answer. For example, performance could be affected by files suddenly having to be addressed with byte granularity instead of block granularity.
or at least "are there technical reasons why it isn't done"
 
@jalf Yeah. I think I'll just mentally hang on to my question until I bump into a filesystem expert sometime.
 
8:04 AM
"why isn't it done" might just come down to "eh, hardly anyone's asked for it"
 
@jalf I want it! That, and presumably all those devs. who insist on communicating between processes by writing lots of little files in one and using some FileSystemWatcher in another, (there are plenty of those:).
 
Nooooo!! Firefox is removing support for the <blink> tag. https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/23.0/releasenotes/
 
@MartinJames but how many have asked FS devs for it?
There's a big difference between the set of people to whom it would be convenient, and the set of people who also explicitly identify it as a feature that would be nice to have and contact FS devs to suggest it
 
@jalf Well, OK, I have not, so.. :)
 
Damn
I can't remember what I used for my MSDN subscription
 
8:18 AM
@TonyTheLion crap?
 
yeah, crap.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I prefer the term "stalking" ;)
 
@MartinJames There, I asked for you.
0
Q: What filesystems allow repositioning the beginning of a file?

PotatoswatterTypical filesystems, and the POSIX interface, only allow a file to be resized at the end. Typically the size of a file "on disk" after it has been closed is equal to the offset of the read/write position when it was closed. Seeking before closing is also known as "repositioning the end-of-file." ...

 
@Potatoswatter Thanks! If you are downvoted/closed, you can blame me :)
@Potatoswatter OK, I'm off the hook. You got two question upvotes, to which I added a third :)
 
8:33 AM
Sometimes I wish SO had a separate kind of downvotes for "what you're asking for makes no goddamn sense and you should stop trying to do it"
 
@jalf Yeah - usually XY problems: 'I need to do this, so I'll ask how to implement the most awkward, inefficient and dangerous design choice ever'.
It just feels so awkward to reply 'It's unfortunate that you have all this serialization and lock contention, but you have to realize that your overall design, on which you have probably spent months of effort, is inherently brain-dead and cannot be resuscitated'.
 
@MartinJames right now it was prompted by this: stackoverflow.com/questions/18096596/…
 
@jalf 'I do not want to show the user how things are working.' Sure, that's gonna be maintainable :((
 
@MartinJames and not just any user, but "the person implementing the function prototype I'm defining"
 
@jalf Yeah - don't send any code like that my way :)
 
8:55 AM
so, it looks like I found a solution to my Qt problems. Yay!
 
It was actually fairly simple, I was just getting tripped up by a singleton-like convenience API
 
oh I see
 
(well, disclaimer: it seems to work now in my standalone prototype app I built to test this. No clue if everything will blow up when I try putting it into the actual application)
 
8:59 AM
@jalf Heh - you've been struggling with this for ages, so I'm not holding my breath :) Good luck, anyway.
 
Holding your breath for too long can cause death. Don't do it.
 
@TonyTheLion In an office full of my toxic code, you would hold your breath too :)
 
Oh, not just my code, aparrently. While on chat, WMware NotworkStation has hit the buffers and derailed :(
 
> The codes above do generate a serie of random number between 0 and 1. However, when I run these codes few times (e.g. 100 times)
lolwat
random number between 0 and 1
hmmm.
 
9:10 AM
@TonyTheLion: Fraction?
 
Aw shit - need to reboot.
 
@wilx I was thinking integers only. Famnit
 
9:25 AM
Can you specialize a non-member function template as a friend to class?
1
Q: Most Vexing Friend ? Friend-ing a specialized free-function template raises compilation error (when overloading a method)

Ad NCode I reduced the problem to this example (pasted as a single block for ease of compilation) /// \brief The free-function template, /// which is overloading a method with the same name in AbstractA below. template <class T> inline const T overloadedMethod(const T& lhs, const T& rhs) { retu...

this question asks that
 
Specialize as a friend?
 
I'm not sure what OP is asking is even possible
@wilx Yes
 
@wilx Friends don't let friends specialize... something something
 
Hmm.
@TonyTheLion IANALL but I think what the OP is trying is not possible because the A type used in the friend declaration is not complete, yet, and it should be complete at the point of the function template instantiation which is IMHO the friend declaration?
 
Ugh. Jeff Atwood's new venture Discourse replaces paginated comments with that horrendous load-as-you-scroll bullshite. Fucksake.
 
9:35 AM
lol, IANALL
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Why is it that funny? :)
 
@wilx Robot is more likely to know this
 
Xeo
The fuck is"IANALL"
 
'I Am Not A Lounge Lawyer' :)
 
Xeo
...
 
9:39 AM
:P
@Xeo Actually you may know the answer to the above posted question
 
@Xeo I am not a language lawyer.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I read that as 'load-as-you-troll '.
3
 
I took a look at that question briefly, and ran away.
The rules for templates and friends are horrendous.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I like that it is there as an option, but I don't like that it is not an optional feature.
 
Xeo
Yay, Press Ticket for the gamescom: GET
 
9:44 AM
Press?
 
Xeo
Or "Fachbesucher Ticket"
Dunno the English word for that
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I concur.
 
@thecoshman yes
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That says enough.
 
GOD DAMN MOTHER FUCKING PLINK TURNED IT'S GOD DAMN FUCKING WANK STAIN SELF BACK ON! (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
 
@TonyTheLion could you kick Candybox and get it up? I'd like to set a jekyll here (I am still building on GH, only for validation).
 
9:47 AM
o_0 even though it is turned off?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I was wondering when you were going to ask, that machine has been switched off for like a month now.
 
wtf! I am getting that fucking shit noise even when I have it turned off?
 
Took you a while to notice
I'll start it over lunch
 
@BartekBanachewicz o_0 don't you have any sort of machine to run it on?
 
@TonyTheLion I've checked a couple of times, but I weren't really needing it so I figured there's no point in bothering you
@thecoshman my vps is extremely small
 
9:50 AM
@BartekBanachewicz hehe.
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, but it's only a test thing, just do it on your local machine
 
Also it will be down for a while when I move.
 
@TonyTheLion no probs. I just want to set up my blog right now, then for adding posts I can simply commit to GH
 
Looks like Kim Jong wants the cash for Assassin's Creed III and to restock on cuban cigars:
http://www.voanews.com/content/nkorea-offers-fresh-talks-with-south-on-kaesong-factory/1724958.html
 
9:52 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I like pages that render properly without CSS
 
I was fascinated by the content
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, It does get on my tits when a page just can't be used because style sheet will not load
@BartekBanachewicz use your local machine
 
@thecoshman I am using my local machine, but I'd still like to have a validator online
@TonyTheLion repost
 
@BartekBanachewicz validator?
 
9:56 AM
@BartekBanachewicz I know. It was on purpose.
 
@TonyTheLion oh you :P
 
@thecoshman something that can build jekyll page and give me proper error
BTW what's the difference between a VPS and a Cloud Server? :F
 
Buzzwords
 
@BartekBanachewicz Height above sea level.
 
Xeo
class cloud_server : virtual private server{ ... };
 
10:00 AM
@BartekBanachewicz ... local server
 
oh noes
 
@thecoshman No, I don't have a local server yet
I mean I have my old phone set up as a server but it runs android and has 256MB ram
 
meh, fuck it, GH pages for the win.
 
@BartekBanachewicz one might consider a VPS to just a VM running in a local dedicated server, usually a few VMs on one dedicated server. but a VM clearly runs on one physical server. A cloud server tends to be distributed over many physical servers, there is no direct mapping to a physical machine.
 
10:01 AM
Just run Jekyll locally with the settings GH uses.
 
anyone knows the command to read word by word from a file in c++
 
"Read!"
 
@BartekBanachewicz wtf? you have ruby installed? you have jekyl installed? just go the root folder and run jekyll serve
 
Define word.
 
We could deploy Lounge<Chat> on Candybox
@R.MartinhoFernandes :D
 
10:02 AM
character array seperated by blank spaces or newline
 
@thecoshman you're totally missing the point. But w/e, doens't matter really.
 
@BartekBanachewicz If it ever comes to fruition
 
@thecoshman right.
@TonyTheLion it sure will
 
@BartekBanachewicz no, you are. If you just want to test your site builds as you expect, just run it locally, on your local machine.
 
@Aakash Extracting std::strings does exactly that with default settings.
 
10:03 AM
@Aakash Make some effort and Google it. Its been asked and answered many times.
 
@BartekBanachewicz but yeah, the terms are VERY fuzzy
 
@CatPlusPlus we should get up folks that are the most interested and make some sort of a meeting
 
If we want to get anything done, we need to start with an existing XMPPd.
 
@thecoshman That's cool, but I work on more than one machine in more than one place. And I don't want to configure every machine
 
Everyone keeps posting equivalents of longer ways of my answer...
 
10:04 AM
@CatPlusPlus Here's one: github.com/normanr/xmppd
 
Python.
Well, forking some open-source matured project is a nice option.
 
@BartekBanachewicz o_0 what's to configure? install some software, pull the repo and then run one command. You would have to configure every machine for ssh anyway.
 
@thecoshman configuring ssh is way easier than configuring ruby and jekyll with appropriate versions, especially on windows
 
Servers that are even worth mentioning are jabberd2 (C, GPL2), ejabberd (Erlang, GPL2) and Openfire (Java, Apache).
@BartekBanachewicz 1. Install Ruby 2. Install Jekyll 3. Done.
 
10:06 AM
@CatPlusPlus you're kidding right?
 
> with appropriate versions
 
@BartekBanachewicz o_0 download and install latest rubby, install Jekyll gem via via ruby, run it.
 
Just install it jesus it'll work.
 
@CatPlusPlus Pick one and lets move on.
 
10:07 AM
lol, jem
 
okay seriously I can handle jekyll, aight? fuck it.
 
@BartekBanachewicz apparently not
 
@TonyTheLion C, Erlang and Java
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes shut it you :P
 
Where is Hyde when you need him?
 
10:08 AM
I'll flip a coin between Openfire and ejabberd.
 
Erlang sounds fun
 
Or look at Openfire code I guess.
 
but C and Java, not so much
 
@CatPlusPlus with Openfire meaning Scala, I presume?
 
and oh! @R.MartinhoFernandes how the fuck is that journal coming along?
 
10:08 AM
lol
inb4 I burned it
 
@TonyTheLion huh... wouldn't have you down as a masochist
 
@thecoshman Haven't been working on it lately.
 
Anyway, gotta go to work
I'll be on later.
 
Have fun!
 
10:09 AM
PayPal grumble
 
@thecoshman What? What's wrong with Erlang?
 
0
A: Most Vexing Friend ? Friend-ing a specialized free-function template raises compilation error (when overloading a method)

Lightness Races in OrbitFirst of all, the basic premise of your friend declaration is sound: [C++11: 14.5.4/1]: A friend of a class or class template can be a function template or class template, a specialization of a function template or class template, or an ordinary (non-template) function or class. For a friend ...

Think I got it, with 3.4.1/10.
though arguably this doesn't "name a member function" outright
 
@BartekBanachewicz it's new and different :P
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit OMG. I thought you were running away from it. I guess that's true for some definition of running away :P
 
10:13 AM
@TonyTheLion I forgot to keep running
 
His inner repwhore came out and it overcame him.
 
Watching TV at 1.5x speed is so much more efficient.
 
Sounds like you are watching something truly interesting.
 
@chris I do it even more efficiently. I let my wife watch the TV and then I only ask how it has all ended.
 
@thecoshman "new"? It appeared in 1986!
 
10:17 AM
@BartekBanachewicz 'new' as in 'needs to be learnt'
 
@thecoshman ohnoes. And since when that's a problem?
 
@wilx It's even more efficient if you don't encourage here to talk.
 
lol
 
are you really stuck up in java so much you won't ever learn another language? :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz hint: not everything I say is100% serious
 
10:18 AM
@thecoshman I am only talking about efficiency of watching TV.
 
@thecoshman jokes aside, "[Erlang] was designed by Ericsson to support distributed, fault-tolerant, soft-real-time, non-stop applications."
 
@wilx yeah, but that is covered by my general use case
@BartekBanachewicz well done, you quoted something.
 
I got a Nice Answer badge from an Erlang answer.
I still need to learn it.
 
I started trying to learn it, but I found it hard to learn something when not trying to use it.
looked nice though
 
@thecoshman This is exactly my problem. I tried to learn Haskell and Ada, each at different times. But since I have nearly nothing to do in them, it seems impossible.
 
10:23 AM
Do you have something to do in any other language?
 
If you need things to do, I'm sure @not-rightfold has lots of things you could work on that are unfinished.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes: I have learned Perl because I wanted to do an IRC bot. I have learned C++ because it was either that or Pascal on university. I have learned Python because I got a job doing it.
 
@TonyTheLion lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes: But I lack that kind of motivation now for anything else.
 
Speaking of which, who is working on Criterion++?
 
10:25 AM
WTF is that?
 
@wilx I too learnt Perl, to start with on a course at work, but then carried it on. So I built a build system just to apply my knowledge to something.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes someone is?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh I see
 
@BartekBanachewicz No.
 
10:31 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes since I've started using Haskell my interest in C++ slightly deteriorated
 
> What I want to do now is to make changements
> changements
what?
 
@BartekBanachewicz You seem easy to amaze. AFAIK you have barely scratched the surface.
 
jesus holy fucking christ what are those retards doing with the flags
 
@jalf in here?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes he is very amazeable
@thecoshman no, some other room
"really funny jokes" or something
 
10:39 AM
@jalf where?
 
@jalf let me guess, an Android room?
 
@A.H. that was the room name
no clue what it is, I just marked them all as invalid
 
ergh ¬_¬ portforwarded wrong port
 
I need some sanity checking here: stackoverflow.com/a/18101237/174614
I want to know I'm not talking rubbish
 
@TonyTheLion are you sure you want to know the answer? :p
 
10:43 AM
I'm really not sure what this construct is: return T{x, y, z};
@jalf Yes, maybe I can learn something.
 
@TonyTheLion It returns a T, list-initialised with x, y, z.
 
@TonyTheLion it's an init list, constructs a T struct
 
> Your operator T() returns a T array.
whut
 
I knew something was iffy
 
did you know it was you?
 
10:46 AM
Since I wrote that answer, it was me
I'm guilty of not knowing what I was looking at.
 
> because a raw array actually decays to a pointer to the first element.
still iffy post-edit
 
yeah, can decay to a pointer to the first element, in contexts where lvalue-to-rvalue conversion is applied.
it doesn't always decay to a pointer to the first element by any stretch.
 
wait
you said it
but how does the list initialized type end up being ambigious to a double*?
 
10:50 AM
Which of these sets has the most elements: the set of object types, the set of reference types, or the set of function types?
 
Xeo
reference types is both function and object types.
 
@Xeo No?
int() is not a reference type. int(&)() is not a function type.
 
Xeo
Oh, that way
 
I think the three are disjoint.
 
10:52 AM
what do you mean by object types?
 
Xeo
I was thinking "references can be applied to object and function types"
 
Yes, but there is at least one object type for each reference type.
T& => T*.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Function types.
 
There is at least one object type for each function type.
 
well, function pointer, I guess
 
10:53 AM
R(A...) => R(*)(A...).
 
then they are all of equal size- countably infinite.
 
Yeah, I think so.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, depends on your definition of barely, I guess. Yesterday night I've read about IO and do notation basics.
 
A boost::spirit question for @sehe.
 
I think I can really write something more complicated than a hello world already
But I want to got slowly, step by step, ensuring that I understand everything properly
 
10:57 AM
Hmm.
So that's why I have been listening to the same song for days. Accidentally set player to "repeat one" instead of "repeat playlist".
 
oh gawd
that took you days to realize?
 
@TonyTheLion whistles Only two...
 
hahahahahaha
 
Xeo
Better than using the wrong font for a year.
2
 
10:59 AM
hahah
 
maybe you are not patient - you are just slow
slow != patient
 
@TonyTheLion Well, in my defense it was not an annoying song.
 

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