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12:00 AM
I still do the not-sleep thing.
 
I definitely have an annoying habit of it
it often happens when I have a deadline, and I'm too guilty and worried to sleep, but too tired and lazy to actually do what is required to meet it
 
Jesus, it plagues me.
 
even if that's only like, an hour's work
 
I blame weekends.
They're too short and force me to stay up late to enjoy more of it.
 
Ell
@deadmg nah, not staying up all night. Just staying up a while so we can talk bcos we can't talk any other time
 
12:01 AM
I think I'm gonna take next week off.
 
everytime I try to fix it, I end up working an hour later every night until a week later I'm back on the same schedule
 
All the more reason to close tasks in this sprint. Which is basically right now.
 
when 3-4 am seems normal... ew
 
It's good to be working on several projects simultaneously!
 
you guys don't love me like you used to
 
12:02 AM
I'm working on vacationf
no Crowz. It is ever growing stronger.
yesterday, I sat outside your window for an hour.
 
I love you Crowz
 
I believe that implies they loved you in the first place.
 
I wrote you a poem
Unfortunately, Scott ate it :<
He was jealous of my love for you ;.;
 
damn, why does nothing interesting happen at 01:07 am on a workday?
 
Everning
 
12:11 AM
@DeadMG because no good story starts with "well i went to bed early at 9PM"
 
@Borgleader the point is that no story starts with "so I was in the office at 1am..." either
 
0
Q: C++ Logic Operators || and && Selectivity

bigzaezaeI am developing a while-condition. In english, this is what I want to happen: do/repeat the following code as long as either the input does not match the var type OR x is anything other than 1, 2, or 3. So if x happens to be either a 1, 2, or 3, then move on to the next block of code. Do not c...

 
@Rapptz Seems like a long, overcomplicated answer to an easy question at first glance.
 
Honestly I have no idea what to close this as.
 
long is the understatement of the day :P
 
12:14 AM
That is a very long answer. Why close though?
 
@Jeffrey It's too narrow, it'll help.. quite literally no one.
 
@Jeffrey Actually if he didn't answer it himself i'd close as "minimal understanding"
but i can't because... well clearly he understood it enough to make answer (haven't verified if its good, no way im reading it)
 
Ah well, here's my shot at it.
This question appears to be off-topic because it is too localised and will probably be unable to help any future visitors. — Rapptz 23 secs ago
 
Oh yeah, I just read the question properly.
 
failduck
 
12:16 AM
@Rapptz I see you brought "too localized" back. I love you <3
 
lol the guy lost almost all his rep, possibly trying to rep whore xD
failwhore
 
@Jeffrey I want it back.
@Borgleader Chances are he truly wanted to help someone.
 
Me too, very badly. But let's face it: we won't even get it back
 
Ell
I want to do something interesting.
 
@Rapptz His answer is almost as long as something @sehe would write, and it's for one of the most trivial questions ever. Honestly, even if I was looking for an answer to that question I wouldn't read, I'd keep looking hoping to find a shorter answer
 
12:18 AM
I pity that guy. He probably spent like half an hour preparing that answer hoping to gain a lot of reputation
 
I seriously doubt it had anything to do with rep.
 
> And in typing this, I have answered my own question. lol. Let this be a great lesson/discussion on selective conditions and formulating a condition that takes only one difference, one error, one exception, one FALSE for it to be entirely false and have to move on to the next block of code!
 
yay! my CPU is now actually clocked at 2.93GHz, instead of 1.6GHz
 
you mean its back to normal? xD
 
@MooingDuck Yeah I closed, I didn't downvote. I feel too bad.
 
12:19 AM
yeah
 
I didnt downvote either i just VTCed
 
That question was lounged
 
Ell
Woo well done
 
TIL voting to close will automatically upvote the related comment for you.
 
@MohammadAliBaydoun Wobble isn't from here...
 
12:21 AM
@Borgleader Okay, it was almost lounged ;_;
 
@Borgleader Wooble? :/
 
@Jeffrey lol
 
@Jeffrey Whatever, the "non-lounger"
 
Damn it guys. Lounged isn't a thing.
 
@Borgleader IIRC "lounged" refers to the downvoting count, not the closing thingy
 
12:22 AM
It doesn't exist. ;_; stop using it.
 
@Rapptz Why do you hate it so much?
 
Meta.
 
Ell
Ima have to be pussy and buy some alcopops =(
 
@Jeffrey it gets us in trouble, you make us sound like the mob
"you came to the wrong neighborhood punk"
 
@Borgleader I didn't started this
lol
 
12:23 AM
Whatever, Lounged is not a thing
 
Last time Mysticial used it on meta we got accused of vote brigading.
 
@Rapptz That's right, blame the visible minority ;)
j/k
 
@Rapptz it's no different than being reddited
 
reddit is much larger than here!
 
@Rapptz That was stupid. Most of us did downvote that time, but it was a pretty bad question.
 
12:25 AM
lol, I can't even point what's wrong with this answer - I can hardly understand what he's rambling about
 
@Rapptz ergo we should be less in trouble then reddit
 
That = the meta post
 
@MooingDuck s/then/than/
 
Can anybody explain to me the log N part of O(log N)? I understand it is a binary search, but I am confused how the log gets into it.
 
@MooingDuck Difference is if we get accused of vote brigading then this entire group would get in trouble because it's easier to pin point while reddit isn't.
 
12:26 AM
That's complexity. It's not necessary correlated to a binary search
 
@milleniumbug You could probably answer that question with 5 times less text than he did. He really overdid it on the explanation to the point that it's hard to follow.
 
@Jeffrey Erm, I mean, a binary search was an example of it.
 
@Pawnguy7 a binary search takes a specific number of comparisons to work on N elements. Specifically, it takes ~logarithm_2(N) comparisons+1
 
472
Q: What does O(log n) mean exactly?

Andreas GrechI am currently learning about Big O Notation running times and amortized times. I understand the notion of O(n) linear time, meaning that the size of the input affects the growth of the algorithm proportionally...and the same goes for, for example, quadratic time O(n2) etc..even algorithms, such...

Wasn't there a SO book project some time ago?
 
It's called C# in depth by Jon Skeet ;)
I was reading it today (not the latest edition) and one of the quotes on the back cover was signed Jared Parsons
Some of you might remember him from our encounter on meta
 
I meant a collective book taking some question/answers from SO itself.
I think it was a Lounge project actually.
 
nope
 
About C++ IIRC
 
Ok, nothing
 
12:31 AM
there's only been one Lounge project, ever
people have discussed a Lounge book, and thought about a Lounge<Chat>
 
Lounge book about what?
 
dunno
 
whoa, my code compiled. It hasn't done that in like four days
 
they wanted to take most of my tutorials as a starting point
 
I was probably referring to that.
 
12:32 AM
and it kinda fell apart when I objected
 
nobody contributed
 
@MooingDuck Does log default to base 2?
 
(me included)
 
@Pawnguy7 10
 
I thought about writing one, using the book i bought in uni as a template and updating it to C++11/changing what i didn't agree with/fixing errors
but... seriously who the fuck would read that anyway?
 
12:33 AM
The Lounge book was Pubby's idea but no one was interested enough to contribute.
 
@Pawnguy7 logarithm_2(N) and logarithm_10(N) and similar are separated by a constant multiple (~2.4ish), and big O notation ignores constants. Therefore, big O notation also ignores the logarithmic base. That being said, most logarithms in computer science make the most sense as base 2. (Binary search and quicksort for example are base 2)
 
@MooingDuck Isn't the default base, mathematically speaking, 10 though?
 
Yeah
 
@Jeffrey what base? no. There is no "default" base. especially mathematically
 
@Jeffrey That is what I thought. But neither log10(1m) or log2(1m) is 50, as was the answer to the binary search example of a phonebook with 1,000,000 entires.
 
12:35 AM
@Jeffrey I don't know what MooingDuck is talking about but usually log and ln are base 10.
 
@Pawnguy7 log one million should be nearish 20
 
log x -----> log10 x
 
@Rapptz wtf. log can be any base, but ln is always base e. lg is always base 2.
@milleniumbug no
 
@Rapptz I'm pretty sure ln is base e.
 
Oh we're not talking decimal base.
 
12:36 AM
It appears I read 50 as 20. Sorry :D log2 it is.
 
ln x -----> log e x
 
I see. Well this is awkward.
 
@Rapptz why would we be talking decimal base?
 
@milleniumbug yeah, that's my point.
 
@MooingDuck Because base 2?
You couldn't have said base e?
 
12:37 AM
in a phonebook the most logical bases are 2 (binary search) or 26 (letters)
 
er, no.
there's no reason to binary search a phonebook
hash table would make more sense
 
@DeadMG meh, fair enough
 
> The logarithm to base b = 10 is called the common logarithm and has many applications in science and engineering.
 
linear search might be fast enough for a phone book
 
> The binary logarithm uses base b = 2 and is prominent in computer science.
Happy everyone?
 
12:38 AM
@DeadMG we're talking about an honest-to-god physical phonebook. hash table doesn't quite make sense unless you have a lot of time on your hands
 
Ell
How abouts lots of memory where the phone number is the address of the person, there we go, O(1) complexity! But a shit ton of memory
 
@Jeffrey never knew that name before, but google confirms. I'm satisfied with that.
 
@Jeffrey Natural => e, Binary => 2, Common => 10.
 
Good :)
 
Ell
Funky => 7
 
12:39 AM
So the specific base of log in Big O algorithms doesn't really matter?
 
@MooingDuck They don't come with an index then, huh?
 
( According to wikipedia )
 
@Pawnguy7 completely irrelevent. Correct.
 
How bout a phone book that also shows names that are similar to the submitted name.
 
Oh. I cannot picture how it scales.
 
12:40 AM
oh hey, wikipedia says "To mitigate this ambiguity the ISO specification is that log10(x) should be lg (x) and loge(x) should be ln (x)." But google uses base 2 for lg(x) :(
 
@MooingDuck And what do the axis represents?
 
@Jeffrey numbers? Remember, we're talking about math here....
@Jeffrey what are you taking a logarithm of and why?
 
@MooingDuck I mean talking about the complexity.
 
@MooingDuck Meh, different applications, different notations.
 
for a binary search, the x would be the total number of elements, and the y would be the number of comparisons
@Jeffrey oh, x is inputs, y is complexity
 
12:43 AM
right
 
@milleniumbug they're not different applications though, they're both general mathematics
 
Ell
Isn't complexity measured by different factors per algorithm?
 
er
 
@Ell it's measured by different factors, each algorithm can measure several things
 
arguably, you can have a complexity of whatever factors you want
 
Ell
12:43 AM
E.g. some is comparison, some is number of iterations or something?
 
but it's almost always size of input vs execution time
 
@Ell you can measure comparisons, swaps, or iterations that a quicksort does. take your pick. In general, we measure whichever is slowest, which gives an estimate of runtime
 
Oh. That is very good for increase, then. For a sufficiently large amount of things, does O(log N) beat out O(n)?
 
of course it does
 
Ell
Right got it
 
12:44 AM
@MooingDuck Also, it seems that different countries also mean different notations. For example in Poland tg x is tan x and <0;5) is [0,5)
 
@Pawnguy7 O(N) of 1000000->1000000. O(logN) of 1000000->~20. Yeah, a LOT less.
 
@milleniumbug too localized
 
@milleniumbug fair point
my program now shuts down on startup now that I've replaced the code that saves files. That's not good.
 
What would the curve of O(n log n) be?
 
er, n log n.
if you want a graph draw it yourself
 
12:46 AM
@milleniumbug Uh, no it's not.
 
@DeadMG he wants a chart
 
I wonder if I could escape to sleep now
 
@CatPlusPlus In Polish high schools and middle schools, at least.
 
12:48 AM
here's a visualization of log(x) with regards to x
 
We use tg and sharp brackets.
 
@CatPlusPlus "sharp brackets"?
 
<>
Angled brackets, whatever.
 
0
Q: Youtube channel application

John ParhamHow can I make an app that will take you to a specific youtube channel?? I have never made an app before. I have a little expereience in VB, but that is about it. I just would like an app that someone can download. When they click the app it goes directly to a specific youtube channel.

Is he asking for permission or something? O_o
 
dont know, dont care, VTCed
 
12:50 AM
@MohammadAliBaydoun he wants us to tell him how to do it
 
@MooingDuck ( I know, but let's pretend we don't know that )
 
There's also about a billion different flavors of YouTube channels.
 
@CatPlusPlus Now I see that I was unclear here - <0;5) is the Polish notation, and [0,5) English.
 
Ell
Can a computer programme calculate the complexity of a function?
 
@Ell It can probably make a really good guess
 
12:51 AM
@Ell No, it can't even check if it can return.
 
@Ell in theory yes, but in practice no
 
@Mysticial Why don't you answer the question ;)
 
What's VB?
 
What is an example of O(n log n)?
 
Visual Basic
 
12:51 AM
@Jeffrey Visual Basic?
 
@Borgleader lol
 
@Jeffrey Visual Basic
 
@Pawnguy7 quicksort does O(N log N) comparisons and swaps and iterations
 
@Pawnguy7 .NET?
 
@Pawnguy7 merge sort
 
12:52 AM
@Jeffrey I assume, but I don't know without reading the questions.
 
@Jeffrey VB and VB .NET are two separate things, i think
 
@ScottW Wear your corset for me ;-;
 
How would you tag that? There's no or
 
hello there
@MooingDuck quicksort takes O(N^2) in the worst case
 
@ScottW Who are you trying to fool, you're never switched off ;)
 
12:54 AM
@nightcracker worst case yes, I should have clarified that I meant average case
 
^ bad
:P
 
@MooingDuck How is average calculated? Also, aren't you supposed to take the worst case?
 
@MohammadAliBaydoun I can't believe that question isn't closed yet
 
@Jeffrey It's tagged youtube, so few people are going to see it :P
 
@Pawnguy7 you can measure average case with a big O notation, if you specify that you're doing so. (You're talking about the upper bound of the average case)
 
12:55 AM
11 views and 4 CVs
 
@MohammadAliBaydoun I was expecting the lounge to take care of that. There are more than 5 people online in here.
 
I'm actually quite happy with the new "must show a minimal understanding of the problem" close reason
 
Yeah, that's quite useful.
 
Great, I just found out our phone number has been on the do not call list for 5 years and we've been getting telemarketer calls constantly.
 
I found this picture of Scott
 
12:57 AM
Y
 
@Pawnguy7 You assume that when you pick the pivot, somewhere between 25% and 75% of the numbers are less than the pivot, and calculate that. (Actually, you come up with O(n*log(n)) if you pick any percentage range other than 0% and 100%.)
 
Is it somewhat accurate to say that the average is when you are "half successful"?
 
@Pawnguy7 not quite
 
@Pawnguy7 O(n log n) in the average case means that, on average, a random input of length n will be computationally bounded by n log n time. This means that if you take a large enough n that any other part of the runtime cost is meaningless (n log n + n is also O(n log n), because the + n becomes irrelevant for large n)
 
@Pawnguy7 look math is hard ok :( I can reason it in my head, but not with words
 
1:01 AM
Haha. I cannot reason it at all, so you are better off.
 
Average case performance runtimes are notoriously hard to compute
 
1) One of my friends is endorsing one of my skills at a time for the past 4 days, lol
 
@nightcracker isn't the last phrase missing something? "This means that if [...] is meaningless", what?
 
2) another email to the members of Apple developer program, it has been like, half a months, they are still fixing the site
 
@Jeffrey I don't quite see anything that's missing, what are you missing?
 
1:04 AM
In practice, does one generally make some approximation cases, or is it rare?
 
@Pawnguy7 what do you mean?
 
I guess I am basically saying, could I get by without knowing how to average it untill I understand the maths :D
 
measuring
 
@nightcracker I read it as: "This means that if you take X large enough that Y..." and then it lacks of the part where you explain what happens if that happens.
 
@Pawnguy7 You mean do people use complexity notation to approximate performance costs?
 
1:05 AM
@Jeffrey ah I see my problem, let me edit one word :P
 
Best case performance is easy to measure. It's usually O(1) - a crash at startup.
 
@Mysticial "If the program is not required to be correct I can make it infinitely fast" was it?
 
O(n log n) in the average case means that, on average, a random input of length n will be computationally bounded by n log n time. This means that if you take a large enough n then any other part of the runtime cost is meaningless (n log n + n is also O(n log n), because the + n becomes irrelevant for large n)
 
thanks :)
@nightcracker so you mean n -> ∞
 
well that's a maths way to put it, yes
depending on the constants and algorithms involved however the big-O part can dominate way before ∞
 
1:09 AM
got it
 
@CatPlusPlus ping for chat project (orsonpeters@gmail.com)
@Jeffrey but nothing stops you from using hybrid algorithms to defeat constants, many mergesorts use insertion sort to first sort small arrays before merging
 
Yeah I remember something about that lesson.
 
Added.
Also @MonadNewb (I forgot earlier)
 
@CatPlusPlus just a question, is the goal here to make somewhat re-usable chat software, or something that is purely and solely aimed for the lounge?
 
Both, with the latter as first priority.
 
1:18 AM
@Borgleader Um... Well, I figured, it would be good to learn Big O notation, and... more on algorithms. I was just wondering if knowing how to approximate would be good in practice, because I think the maths might be beyond me.
 
Would the decline to carpool and insisting on driving myself a sign of being individualistic and not a good team player?
 
@Pawnguy7 don't even think about estimating average runtimes on algorithms yet.
 
1:33 AM
I should sleep before 5 AM.
Actually I should go for two sleep cycles.
Which means I should aim for 3 hours of sleep.
 
lol people here don't sleep much
I am always torn between 7.5 & 9 ... except I probably only need 7.5
 
What would a hashmap be?
 
1:52 AM
In computing, a hash table (also hash map) is a data structure used to implement an associative array, a structure that can map keys to values. A hash table uses a hash function to compute an index into an array of buckets or slots, from which the correct value can be found. Ideally, the hash function should assign each possible key to a unique bucket, but this ideal situation is rarely achievable in practice (unless the hash keys are fixed; i.e. new entries are never added to the table after it is created). Instead, most hash table designs assume that hash collisions—different keys ...
Cat: What's the Lounge<Chat> project?
 
Oh. Hey @CCInc
 
hi
 
hi
Ping @CatPlusPlus
 
What?
 
2:09 AM
Just to test whether you are a lazy man
 
Test DarkHorse.annoyingMan: Test passed
-2
Q: 如何成为一名优秀的程序员——How to become a good programmer

xing393939如何成为一名优秀的程序员——How to become a good programmer int tries=0; while ( tries < 3 ) { //fluent wait (with .ignoring) inside here tries ++1; }

 
because you had said I'm way too lazy to make this page pretty
 
I have no idea what that question is asking.
 
2:24 AM
Absolutely nothing.
 
War, hu uh, what is it good for?
2 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Absolutely nothing.
Oh yeah, Cat... I love when you finish the lyric with me. :)
 
Hey, do I have to convert data received from a socket to any format for it to be readable?
C++ UDP sockets
 
@Daaksin Maybe.
 
May I know what it is, please?
My received data is like "||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||" of strange chars
 
Maybe in this case means "it depends"
 
2:32 AM
Oh
 
So I could have paid the music company $150 for something I can do for $20... damn I should start a repair store
 
@Daaksin Don't worry. You are using UDP. :)
 
Namely, what kind of data are you receiving from the socket, and what are you doing in order to receive it.
 
Well, basically, it's an unsigned char of length 255
 
a char of length 255? huh?
 
2:33 AM
You mean unsigned char[255] ?
 
I send \\status\\ to server and it's supposed to return data about it's... Well, status
Exactly
 
what protocol is this?
 
UDP
 
@Borgleader A very wide char.
 
I'll be back later on
 
2:34 AM
@Daaksin Maybe it's compressed or is in a binary format.
 
Yeah, that'swhat I was thinking
 
UDP is the underlying network
I'm asking about the protocol of the server
 
It's your fault, really. UDP is a protocol just like any other.
 
It basically is just a carrier.
 
2:35 AM
IP would also be a valid answer.
And probably Ethernet.
 
In computer networking, IP over Avian Carriers (IPoAC) is a proposal to carry Internet Protocol (IP) traffic by birds such as homing pigeons. IP over Avian Carriers was initially described in RFC 1149, a Request for Comments (RFC) issued by the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) written by D. Waitzman and released on 1 April 1990. It is one of several April 1 RFCs. Waitzman described an improvement of his protocol in RFC 2549, IP over Avian Carriers with Quality of Service (1 April 1999). Later, in RFC 6214 released on 1 April 2011, and 13 years after the introduction of IPv6, Carpen...
 
Analogous with HTTP and message bodies. It's your job to interpret the message body.
 
@nightcracker Wow. That's weird. A friend of mine told me about that this afternoon.
 
@Jeffrey So we're friends now?
 
Hmm.
 
2:38 AM
 
> Avian carriers can provide high delay, low throughput, and low altitude service.
 
I also heard about that not long ago.
 
Damned mark-up!
 
> Avian carriers can provide high delay, low throughput, and low altitude service.
 
Congrats. Have a cookie.
I love underspecified projects.
 
2:40 AM
There.
Love that statement.
 
I have a mockup and I have no idea how it's supposed to work.
 
LOL, one of my friends told me her friend smuggled a baby turtle in a necklace before
I imagine it was hidden in a large pendulum attached to the necklace ... something like this probably:
 
isn't that ridiculously easy to smuggle coke in?
 
2:55 AM
LOL, no idea ... you could try though :p
 
why to smuggle a turtle? how would be if you take away in hand or pocket?
 
x ray probably ... & you could put water in a pendulum. According to my friend, one of the turtle died on the way, the other stayed alive
 
your friend's pet is so special
 

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