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9:00 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Should it?
 
ofcourse it doesn't
 
@TonyTheLion they have a preview thingy as of last november
 
project died before it ever really started
@MooingDuck yea
but no one is going to use that in production code
 
Also, what the fuck are they doing, preview? That's just insulting.
C++11 is out.
Get with the times.
 
Microsoft hates C++
they have a lot of code analysis features that only work with managed code
like metrics, dependency graphs, ...
 
9:06 PM
Hey, did you guys hear about this?
@DogPlusPlus there were screenshots posted not long ago, right? was interested to find out what it was all about :(
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit are you joking?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It was a long time ago, just found the old files today. :D
 
@TonyTheLion Molson Canadian? Ergh.
 
The snow has stopped, England 5:0 up and just found out that minicraft available on Android! Also beer.
 
@sehe Interesting. Normal moderators don't have the power to delete high-rep accounts. So it had to be somebody in SE who overlooked it.
 
9:09 PM
@Mysticial And it happened more than once. Do you know of more incidents that are recorded (beside the daknok case?)
 
@sehe There was one older case in the tag. But I think that case was what prompted them to keep votes for high-profile cases.
 
Where's my pizza
 
@CatPlusPlus I want some, too.
 
@Mysticial okay, not very relevant for this post then
 
Thank you, ISP, for the lack of service the last twelve hours... hi.
 
9:12 PM
@Bartek Banachewicz: Let's hope we don't receive hundreds of comments from them stating exactly how much rep they've lost. — BoltClock's a Unicorn 2 hours ago
^^ quick. Everybody go post how much rep they lost.
 
@Mysticial Yeah, you just had to chime in :) didn't you
@Mysticial Huh. I'm really taken aback. I didn't actually `*care* much about the rep:
8 hours ago, by sehe
@StackedCrooked I'm not sure. I think I agree.
 
@DogPlusPlus k :(
@bamboon Yes.
 
@sehe The whole point was to annoy tease bolty. :)
 
But now that it turns out to be just carelessness, my opinion is shifting a bit
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit haha, then it's funny.
 
9:14 PM
@Mysticial As long as it doesn't 'snow over' the real issue there...
 
@bamboon Thank you.
 
Who here hates Comic Sans?
 
I hate snow.
 
@Pawnguy7 No one. We lurv it. And PHP
 
@sehe It won't. They'll delete those comments if it gets out of hand.
 
9:14 PM
I love it as well. I saw a blog post about people hating it, somewhere. I forget.
It seems to make those hours debugging easier. Only problem is, it is not monospaced, but small problem.
 
@Mysticial Well, as long as it doesn't distract :)
 
@Mysticial btw, my contiguous array 1-stride loop is very non-deterministic...i got a 200% slowdown in one test (the arrays are randomly generated and some are with sub-word sized elements)
@Mysticial I bet it's alignment and loop rolling/unrolling
 
@StephenLin What are the strides?
Let's hope it's not a power of two? :P
 
@Pawnguy7 No clue where you got that from. A google hate +"comic sans" comes up empty too
 
@Mystical i don't know, it depends on the test...the stride in the dimension of the loop is sizeof(T)
 
9:16 PM
@sehe Wait - is this sarcasm?
 
Yes flies away
 
@Mysticial but overall the copied arrays might not be aligned on any convenient boundary, since both data and indexes are randomly generated
 
@StephenLin So we can probably rule out bad alignment...
 
Well I have to go, but when I get home, I'm going to pester you (the lounge) about my xml serialization templates :P (youve been warned)
 
@Mysticial what do you mean rule out? I mean, I suspect that's the issue actually
 
9:18 PM
@Pawnguy7 I'll make it clearer:
> No one. We lurv it. And racism Hitler PHP anal rape
 
@Mysticial some of the tests are creating cases where the alignment for a given operation is is out of whack randomly (and the same array is being used over and over again)
 
@StephenLin How often does it happen. If it they're random, they shouldn't be powers of two too often?
@StephenLin oh ic...
 
@Mysticial it's not pathological alignment, it's just misalignment
@Mysticial repeated over and over again within the same test
 
Miss Pathological
 
@StephenLin Wait... let's clarify. Big alignment (as in power of two strides), or poor SIMD alignment (for words)?
 
9:19 PM
poor SIMD alignment i suspect
 
 
SIMD alignment you want. Big alignment you don't want.
 
there's no natural power of 2 alignments
the test arrays and indexes are being randomly generated
so sometimes they align to SIMD boundaries, sometimes not
 
@StephenLin Oh ic. Then you really need to benchmark them with consistent alignments to get consistent results.
 
yeah, but at least i know what to avoid now
 
9:20 PM
@sehe My sarcasm detector is a bit below par it seems :D
 
The worse case that can happen is that the source and destination arrays aren't aligned equally.
 
what's the most portable way of checking alignment? just convert pointer to int and mod 16?
 
@ScottW The first
 
@Pawnguy7 Don't worry. It'll break anyway. This room is off the scales
 
not technically well-defined but should be ok right?
 
9:21 PM
@ScottW I do the first case, unless I decide to linewrap the signature, then the { goes on it's own line.
 
void
func
(
void
)
{

}
 
If they are aligned equally, but misaligned together, that's fine. The clean-up cost is O(1). But if they are not aligned to each other, then the clean-up is O(n).
@StephenLin yes
 
@melak47 could you. please? (maximizing vertical screen "claim" is not a sport here)
 
@melak47 You're awful
 
@ScottW :)
 
9:21 PM
ahh, right
 
:(
 
ok, that makes sense
no, i suspect they're misaligned randomly
that's got to be it
thanks for the help
 
You know you love it.
 
ewwww
what disgusting code
nice colour scheme though
 
@StephenLin Yeah, that would be the worst case.
@StephenLin np
 
user142019
9:23 PM
WTF Global::.
 
WTF font
 
@Pawnguy7 i like how your function never returns unless by exception, stack overflow, out of memory, std::terminate, longjmp, signals, etc.
3
 
@Mysticial got it...I knew all this ahead of time, in theory, but knowing in practice is something different
 
@Pawnguy7 What we need is a monospaced Comic Sans.
 
user142019
WTF.
 
9:24 PM
@sehe This is what my main looks like while developing parts of the game, before anything runs :D
 
user142019
RectangleShape::setSize
 
@Pawnguy7 This is horrible
 
user142019
Y U NO .size = .
 
@Mysticial didn't realize how bad it could get
 
user142019
Y U NO take size in ctor.
 
9:24 PM
@Mysticial versus the naive loop, i mean
 
The picture was for the editor settings, not the code.
 
@Zoidberg That's an SFML class, it takes two parameters.
 
user142019
It clearly takes a vector.
 
I know the code is bad, but we can reflect on the code AFTER I finish it. Ok? :D
 
Yes, an sf::Vector2f or two floats
 
9:25 PM
@StephenLin Yeah, the worse of where the arrays are not aligned to each other means you can't just load from one and store. You need to actually load, shift + mask + combine, then store.
 
user142019
Meh.
 
Or use misaligned loads/stores.
 
@Mysticial I'm just suprised the compiler doesn't guard against pathological cases better, especially in a loop
 
Also, what is bad about font?
 
@Mysticial when most of this information is knowable outside of the loop
 
9:26 PM
I use Consolas.
 
@Mysticial I guess it could get pretty tricky with alignment though
 
@Rapptz way too constructive. We need more comic sans bashing
 
@StephenLin And if it isn't, you need to have all the cases, and switch on them.
 
yes yes, but it's just loop unswitching! it's almost always a win (except for possible code bloat)
as far as i understand it
or with very small loops
 
I think my go-to if not Comic Sans is courier. I think Consolas is similar, though.
 
9:28 PM
i ought to be able to hint to the compiler to do full unswitching when i know the loop is large
large as in large number of repetitions
it's just mechanical
there's nothing tricky about it
 
Ok, about recursion, a function keeps calling itself until it reaches the base case and from there it works its way backward to give us an answer ?
 
@SteveJobs It can also work forward until it reaches a condition to give you an answer.
 
@SteveJobs yes
@ThePhD still has to unwind in that case
 
Decided to keep the new name?
 
9:31 PM
@ThePhD @MooingDuck How often do you actually use recursion while programming ?
 
template meta wankery
nah I don't use it
 
I closed the Windows 7 snipping tool, and performance in Task Manager went down 20% -_-
 
@Rapptz I fucking love you.
 
@SteveJobs Rarely.
 
@SteveJobs, are you planning to learn C++?
 
9:33 PM
@SteveJobs Commonly.
 
@DeadMG Really?
 
Yeah I use it everyday!
 
@EtiennedeMartel Compiling involves a lot of working with trees.
 
@DeadMG Oh, right.
But you can use loops for that.
 
@SteveJobs Every now and then; most times I'm using loops. In most cases you can either solve something iteratively (with a loop) as well as recursively.
 
9:34 PM
Although it makes the code a bit more complex.
 
only if I want to use external heap storage.
which is really not worth the hassle
 
@Pawnguy7 I have to learn C++ because I want to skip a year of it in college and go right to data structures
 
@SteveJobs Data structures aren't that important.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Why ? My college emphasizes data structures the most and almost all interviews emphasize it as well.
 
@SteveJobs I see.
 
9:36 PM
most data structures programmers regularly use are shipped with virtually every language these days.
 
Perhaps learncpp.com will be useful. Also, for reference on the STL, cplusplus.com is useful.
 
not all of them, and certainly not some of the less common ones
 
@Pawnguy7 I have safari online, so that's very helpful
 
lol
 
What is safari online?
 
9:37 PM
@SteveJobs Once you actually start coding, it's less about the structures themselves and more about how they actually help solve the particular problem you're facing.
@Pawnguy7 Prefer cppreference to cplusplus.com.
@Pawnguy7 Also, learncpp uses the term "C/C++". It probably sucks.
Let's delve further, shall we?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Ah. That, at a glance, also appears good. Never heard of it before now, I will try it next time.
 
learncpp isn't that bad though it could be a lot better
 
@Pawnguy7 you get access to books and videos, the same exact ones you search on amazon, like from o'reilly and other publishers for $20/month
 
@Rapptz There's hungarian notation in there.
 
Yep.. like I said. Could be a lot better lmao
 
9:40 PM
@Pawnguy7 i will check out your resources
 
Pointers before references? Dafuq?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Oh. I am not aware of where that is.
 
The underlying lessons aren't horrible besides for the fact that it tends to dwell into C territory before the C++ stuff.
 
I also apologize for my stupid questions in this room sometimes to everyone
 
Pointers before functions?
 
9:41 PM
i.e. "This is how you do it in C but this is how you do it better in C++" it's weird
 
I don't recall pointers coming before functions.
 
in <!Real> C++ Room, 2 hours ago, by Steve Jobs
@BartekBanachewicz I asked for help in the C++ Lounge and they started talking about recursive porn instead
guys.
 
> If anArray is a pointer that points to the first element
Wrong. Arrays are not pointers.
 
No, but are that level, it makes sense.
Even now knowing it decays to a pointer.
It is still about the same. At that level.
 
Vectors are introduced 10 chapters after new and delete.
 
9:42 PM
don't use C style arrays problem solved
 
@BartekBanachewicz guess what?
 
@Pawnguy7 what?
@EtiennedeMartel dude that's fucking terrible
 
@BartekBanachewicz you will be glad to know, with C::B, SFML is linked, statically no less, and working - including audio. :D
 
@Pawnguy7 C::B is an IDE, not a compiler.
 
9:43 PM
@Pawnguy7 I don't give a fuck.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I want to be the next Bartek
 
no god forbid
1 is enough.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well, technically, minGW, but still.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Congratulations: you got yourself a fangirl.
 
I thought Steve Jobs was a troll
 
9:45 PM
@Rapptz I honestly can't decide.
My troll-o-meter is acting weirdly.
 
@Rapptz He's a dead troll
 
@EtiennedeMartel given that you so slandered my choice, do you have any recommendations for an online tutorial?
 
In all fairness, we don't get too many trolls lately. Telkitty may be the most notable exception
 
user142019
TIL: IBM is HAL in rot1.
 
@Pawnguy7 No?
There really isn't one.
 
9:46 PM
Well then.
 
@Pawnguy7 Slander? It's slander only if it's false.
 
There's a list of books on SO that you can read though.
 
@SteveJobs hi
 
@Zoidberg How do you think they came up with the name HAL?
 
@EtiennedeMartel First word that came to my mind. You get my point, though.
 
9:47 PM
@Pawnguy7 Our very own puppy has something there.
 
@MoorthyTheBoss hi
 
But the best way is to get a book from the list.
 
@Pawnguy7 Just settle for a good book stackoverflow.com/questions/388242/… - that way you can avoid being overly misinformed. Then, read an online tutorial with all the skepsis you can find.
 
how are you @SteveJobs ?
 
Just get C++ Primer or Accelerated C++
not the C++ Primer Plus though by Prata
That book's pretty shitty
 
9:49 PM
note to self.
if you wish to test condition functionality
you may need to implement some comparison operators.
 
@Rapptz Is AC++ updated for C++11?
 
@Rapptz Accelerated C++ has been recommended by almost everyone i know, is it really that good ?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Don't think so
 
I hear raving reviews of Effective C++, but I don't think it is a beginner book.
 
@SteveJobs It's one of the few "beginner books" that approaches C++ as a new language and not as a "better C".
 
9:50 PM
EffC++ is coding practices
 
@MoorthyTheBoss i'm dead, so yeah ...
 
Here is my theory:
 
@Pawnguy7 It isn't.
 
@SteveJobs why amby what happen ?
 
9:51 PM
This one is updated for C++11
 
@DeadMG What isn't?
 
@Pawnguy7 Follow the reply chain.
 
Effective C++
 
@EtiennedeMartel I am not sure if I like it
 
Oh... Yes.
 
9:51 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, it's a bit weird.
 
@Rapptz PrimerC++ is totally awesome and I confirm it
 
@Rapptz sounds like an excellent book, the Prata book is a waste, i stopped right after chapter 4, it was that bad
 
My theory is this: If you say something, and do not get pounded into oblivion, it wasn't half bad :D
 
@Pawnguy7 You're talking about....?
 
@BartekBanachewicz do you suggest that book from cover to cover ?
 
9:53 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Anything I have said in here :D
 
sbi
@SteveJobs When it was published, it was groundbreaking in its way to teach C++. Barbara Moo has since joined the C++ Primer team (I think effectively she rewrote the book mostly on her own), so that one's supposed to have the same touch, but it's 1k pages, rather than 250. Of course, 250 pages is small even for an intro to C++, so AC++ has a steep learning curve. OTOH, 1k pages is a lot to labor through. Pick your poison.
 
@SteveJobs no, it will be too hard. you have to code something in between'
 
sbi
@MartinJames Nope. I'd rather take care of the kids.
 
@sbi do you know if there is an C++11 planned for Acc++?
 
sbi
@bamboon No idea.
 
9:55 PM
@sbi If I read that book will i become like @BartekBanachewicz
 
@SteveJobs seriously that's starting to be creepy
also chunks in negative values are borked
 
I don't know what I am looking at...
 
@SteveJobs byeee
 
chunks with negative coordinates
 
sbi
@SteveJobs You mean whether you're gonna have so many consonants in your name?
 
9:56 PM
They look heigher
 
hmmm, fuck
 
@SteveJobs He's not that awesome.
 
just realized I have this one tiny bit of my grammar where I have no idea how to parse it.
 
sbi
@BartekBanachewicz Seriously. It's 2013. You're talking to someone who calls himself "Steve Jobs". In a C++ chat room. Talk about creepy.
 
guess I'll just cheat, thanks to being a hand-written
 
9:57 PM
@sbi yea, what do I know.
 
@sbi Or herself, it seems.
 
I always say Bartek Bananaschwitz
I don't even know how to pronounce your name
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel Oh. Is that the insect?
 
Is it me, or does "Banachewicz" does look like "Banana Sandwich"?
9
@sbi The jury is still out.
 
@sbi no. new breed
@Rapptz "wicz" is your americanized "vich"
 
sbi
9:58 PM
@Rapptz Polish.
 
@EtiennedeMartel then i will become like you
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel Are they out drinking?
 
"che" is... well, fuck know how it is pronounced
 
@SteveJobs Then you'll need to grow a beard.
@sbi Unfortunately, no.
 
sbi
@BartekBanachewicz "kha"?
 
9:59 PM
@sbi no, totally not
 
@EtiennedeMartel :D
 
"khe" would be more like it
but it's not k, because you don't use your tongue that way
 

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