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4:00 AM
@Telkitty two programming philosophies can be very effective in isolation but completely toxic when combined
@Telkitty i would rather have someone with whom I can agree on the proper approach and can trust to figure out the answer rather than someone you knows the answer for sure but isn't going to be able to agree on the approach
 
what is the general approach to learning big O complexity?
"Algorithm Complexity: you need to know Big-O. It's a must. If you struggle with basic big-O complexity analysis, then you are almost guaranteed not to get hired. It's, like, one chapter in the beginning of one theory of computation book, so just go read it. You can do it."
 
@StephenLin Unlikely to happen though -- for the last few years I've been doing consulting, so I don't have much to do with hiring people any more.
 
@JerryCoffin I'm not likely to move to CO either :D
 
"For God's sake, don't try sorting a linked list during the interview." ... I don't get it
 
although these days I guess that's not as relevant
 
4:03 AM
@AgainstASicilian Have you tried implementing linked list algorithms?
It's pretty easy to screw up pointer assignments in linked lists.
 
Last time I made a linked list was high school (pointers pointing to nodes and whatnot)
 
(Even though they are conceptually easy)
 
user1357851
@StephenLin I can tolerate talented annoying person sometimes if they are willing to help me to improve but I can not stand sweet, nice, clingy idiots - I wish them the best, but please stay away
 
@StephenLin Oh, when I did interviews, a fair amount of it was people who would be working remotely. At times traveled as far as Romania to interview people.
 
@Telkitty it's not so much annoying as having a completely different worldview on coding
@Telkitty I wouldn't hire Linus Torvalds to work with me, even if I had the opportunity
@Telkitty nor some of these idiot savant types that create programs with tons of mutable global state without getting mixed up...that's impressive and probably useful, but not what I would want to work with, just because it won't help me
 
user1357851
4:07 AM
@StephenLin if you are talking about people who are pedantic about things like indentations - especially go as far as you should fix the indentation of everyone else code, then I have to agree with you
 
@Telkitty i don't mean spaces vs tabs or vim vs emacs, I mean fundamental issues like mutability, state management, program organization, etc.
@Telkitty people do things differently, which is fine
and it's better for everyone involved to work with people that do things similarly (without the extreme of descending into a monoculture)
 
You are the 1101th customer, and Microsoft hates you. — HevyLight 12 secs ago
 
@Mystical i responded to EricPostpischil
 
@Mysticial yeah oh well
 
@StephenLin Yeah I saw.
You made a very good point. Something that I overlooked initially since I was too caught up with the technicalities of how it would be possible.
 
user1357851
4:12 AM
@StephenLin could be worse - people like him hires you and you have to work his way without a chance to argue because that's what you are paid to do :p
 
user1357851
trust me I have gone through the corporate life, I have done the change 1 line of code but fill in 2 documents thing (business spec + tech spec)
 
@Telkitty that's why I'd prefer to interview with people like @JerryCoffin
@Telkitty and that's why I don't accept jobs even if they're good on paper if I don't think I don't think I'd get along with the people there
 
user1357851
and if you have been offered a entry level position in organizations such as google and microsoft, be prepared to sweep the floor (or the equivalent in software development, such as testing, 3rd level support and doing all the uninteresting stuff)
 
4:42 AM
So I switched my code from ushorts to ints and the code went from 800 ms to 66 msmy
1
Q: Vectorize short to float conversion?

MikhailI am trying to understand why Visual Studio 2012 (x64) doesn't want to vectorized a conversion from a short to a float. Does anybody have a reason or a way around? //unsigned short* __restrict A,B,C,D for (int j = 0; j < H*W;j++) { float Gs = D[j]-B[j]; float Gc = A[j]-C[j]; ...

 
user1357851
5:02 AM
Oh my friend was asking me questions about fixed income products. Had to tell her, sry hun, I am a option girl
 
@Telkitty I used to do FI (credit derivatives, synthetic CDOs), what about them?
 
Many years ago I had an interview with Goldman Sachs, I got every technical question correct (some java nonsense which I got 100% correct). Then they proceeded to ask me about my moral views and I failed the thing. They asked me 'why do people not like banks?'.
 
@Mikhail that's bizarre, I though everyone at GS is always impressed with themselves and sure that everybody else is impressed with them too
@Mikhail I wouldn't have thought they'd be self-aware enough to consider the possibility that someone doesn't like them :D
@Mikhail or did they mean every bank except GS?
 
user1357851
@StephenLin quote (original question was): you know anything about fixed interest securites and conversion/merges? How often does it happen?
 
user1357851
My answer was: You mean convertible bonds that can be convert into shares of common stock in the issuing company or cash of equal value? I have no idea, I guess it depends on the bond whether it is in the money or out of the money when it matures?
 
user1357851
5:17 AM
Her replied back: No seems like they convert into other fixed int securities
 
Jesus. It's 6:17 AM and I still can't fell asleep
 
user1357851
@Jueecy alcohol, 1 glass, does wonders
 
@Telkitty any structure you can imagine in FI exists, pretty much, I don't know much about real world usage unfortunately
@Telkitty it's not theoretically hard to value a security that converts to another FI security (as opposed to stock, convertible to stock is a PIA) but I don't know anything about how often they happen
 
@Telkitty, I had 3 glasses of wine at 3am. Also unfortunately I don't have any alcohol as of right now. Can't buy it either. But thanks. :(
 
user1357851
@StephenLin the other two things I could think of are : IR swaps & if the debtor defaults those can be sold to some one else at much lower value (not sure that is called).
 
5:24 AM
@Telkitty there's credit default swaps but I don't think that's what you mean
@Telkitty CDS gives you a payoff when someone defaults on a bond, but you have to pay a premium until that happens (it's like insurance, but you don't have to own the bond itself)
 
user1357851
@StephenLin that is swap, not FI
 
swaps are fixed income
what do you mean?
well, technically i guess CDS is not "fixed income" since your income is not completely fixed upfront, but most fixed income products are like that nowadays (other than vanilla bonds)
 
Apparently I can't sleep.
 
CDS is traded within fixed income departments and considered part of that asset class almost all the time though
 
user1357851
@StephenLin not really, because there is usually a fixed leg and a floating leg
 
user1357851
5:28 AM
can't be 'fixed' income when there is something floating
 
@Telkitty, yes, to be pedantic, it's not fixed, but I'm saying is that I worked in Fixed Income and everyone in the industry uses the term to refer to any bond-based product
it's universal usage, even if it's not 100% accurate anymore
maybe it's different on the retail side, i don't know
 
@Telkitty The floating leg is the amputated one?
 
@Telkitty it's a misnomer anyway since preferred stock is usually treated as equity even though it's based on fixed income streams, and CDO tranches are "fixed income" even when they're anything but--the terms are more to do with the historical breakdown of trading desk responsibilities than with how products are engineered
but it could be different terminology from a retail perspective, I don't know
 
@StackedCrooked lol
 
user1357851
@StackedCrooked The fixed leg is the one you can depend on that will walk work for the time period fixed on. The floating leg sometimes can be longer or short depends on the prevailing leg length :p
 
user1357851
5:37 AM
An interest rate swap (IRS) is a popular and highly liquid financial derivative instrument in which two parties agree to exchange interest rate cash flows, based on a specified notional amount from a fixed rate to a floating rate (or vice versa) or from one floating rate to another. Interest rate swaps are commonly used for both hedging and speculating. Structure In an interest rate swap, each counterparty agrees to pay either a fixed or floating rate denominated in a particular currency to the other counterparty. The fixed or floating rate is multiplied by a notional principal amount (s...
 
^ Classic Kajiura.
 
morning
 
morning
 
does this makes any sense?
how come 11111111 = -1
 
Yes.
 
5:44 AM
@AppDeveloper -1? Does such a number even exist?
 
i am still trying to figure out
 
Two's complement is a mathematical operation on binary numbers, as well as a binary signed number representation based on this operation. The two's complement of an -bit number is defined as the complement with respect to , in other words the result of subtracting the number from . This is also equivalent to taking the ones' complement and then adding one, since the sum of a number and its ones' complement is all 1 bits. The two's complement of a number behaves like the negative of the original number in most arithmetic, and positive and negative numbers can coexist in a natural way. In ...
 
well zeta then may be u can help me understand one thing
 
@AppDeveloper Boo! You should know that!
 
5:45 AM
well its a java question!
i know two's compliment
how come byte b = (int) 128
how b = -128 how?
 
how what where cake how?
 
when i change 128 to byte in java
it shows -128
how ?
 
How?
...are we supposed to know?
:D
 
public static void main(String[] args) throws NumberFormatException
{
int i = 128;
byte b = (byte)i;
}
 
@AppDeveloper well know problem with java
 
5:48 AM
well kind of
 
@AppDeveloper ITS A WELL KNOW PROBLEM
 
coz i am extremely confused
 
@AppDeveloper SUN MICROSYSTEMS CALLS IT A FEATURE
 
it dont happens the same in c++ or c#
 
Dude, don't drag your Java issues in here.
 
5:49 AM
@AppDeveloper HENCE A FEATURE
 
@Mikhail - was that an attempt to joke or r u really serious?
hmm ok
 
@AppDeveloper Byte has a range of -128 to 127
128 is over 127 so it overflows to -128
 
@Rapptz - if someone gives me a integral value
how can i calculate it manually?
 
I have no idea what you're talking about
 
there must be a logic behind conversion
 
yuck! thanks!
 
Argh, this !@$€%§ fire alarm is driving me crazy.
 
@Zeta - i search for wrong terms last time
 
@AppDeveloper If you think thats bad, most java code runs bettter in 32bit mode because the pointers are smaller
 
@Mikhail - yup right!
 
5:57 AM
@Telkitty I just saw your post back there: typically floating legs have fixed intervals (almost always quarterly actual/360, to match LIBOR); it's the interest rate that resets each interval
 
@ScottW pls describe little bit more... what kind of app you want.. like an Android app for audio streaming etc.
 
the fixed side is usually semiannual 30/360, to match corporate bond convention
 
@ScottW pls describe little bit more... what kind of app you want.. like an Android app for audio streaming etc.
 
@ScottW I like your style
 
@ScottW Does your app require converting different integer datatypes? :)
 
6:13 AM
Fuckin Problems :P
That guy is so bad.
 
@StackedCrooked: This video isn't available in Germany [yaddayaddayadda] GEMA. :/
 
Sorry, lol.
 
@Zeta, are you up early or very late?
 
@Zeta It's Kendrick Lamar performing F**kin' Problems. (Avoid the clean version.)
 
@StephenLin: Early. There's a fire alarm running in a dormitory next door, and no one really cares.
 
6:19 AM
I suppose 7:18 isn't that early actually
 
@StackedCrooked Ahahahah, the hell is that? :D
 
I would rename myself to StackedCrookedPlusPlus. However, I'd probably be doing it wrong.
@DogPlusPlus It's what kids listen to these days :)
 
@DogPlusPlus are you and @CatPlusPlus a team?
 
I'm Cat's superior officer.
 
ahh, yes, as it should be
such is the natural order of things
 
6:24 AM
@DogPlusPlus aka Cockface Plus Plus
 
@ScottW The lyrics are so deep. It makes me cry.
 
damm!!! internet speed too much slow :(
 
@ScottW Because bitches are no fuckin' problem?
 
Kendrick Lamar - Backseat Freestyle is a gem as well. The biaAATCH line brings a tear to my eye.
 
6:38 AM
fml. runtime error solved by rebuilding
 
@Mikhail It happens.
Not bad.
Dancing style is slightly wrong though :P
 
I actually used dynamic dispatch again in application code. Something I seem to have avoided (unintentionally) for about 6 months. Granted, it depends on what I'm working on, but I wonder - if polymorphism was added today, would it be done differently?
 
@BrettHale there needs to be a way to wrap compile-time polymorphism via dynamic dispatch (i.e. access templates dynamically)
@BrettHale not really an answer to your question, but IMHO that's what C++ is really lacking
@BrettHale templates are great, but once anything becomes runtime polymorphic you're screwed unelss you write a lot of adapter code
 
user1357851
@BrettHale depends whether we are talking about OOP or C++ specific
 
@Telkitty - I guess I mean polymorphism specific to C++. It was heavily influenced by language trends and research in the 80's.
 
6:51 AM
Remember when you could have templates in different files?
 
@Mikhail you mean if you were using an EDG-based compiler and actually used export??
@Mikhail who did that?
@BrettHale everyone who still codes C++ nowadays avoids virtual functions like the plague whenever possible
@BrettHale since they're not as essential anymore with template-based compile-time polymorphism, I could see the possibility of C++ having some other type of run-time polymorphism system instead of virtual functions if it was designed from scratch
 
@StephenLin, For anything but high-performance classes (Vector / Matrix stuff, etc), I'm afraid I've had the 'dtors shall be virtual' beaten into me.
 
@BrettHale sure, but you still don't use virtual functions unless you have to
@BrettHale you could do run-time polymorphism with discriminated unions and pattern matching instead of virtual pointers, like ML-based languages do
@BrettHale that interacts much better with compile-time polymorphism (in that the run-time polymorphic system can make effective use of the compile-time polymorphic system)
@BrettHale virtual functions are basically orthogonal to templates right now, which is unfortunate
doing discriminated unions and pattern matching would require a different compilation model, most likely, though
 
@BrettHale Also array of member paramters instead of array of objects
 
@BrettHale have you done any programming with ML-style languages?
 
6:59 AM
@StephenLin, and yet, the cost of dynamic dispatch is trivial for methods that do a lot of heavy lifting. I also would hate to be without dynamic resolution for exception hierarchies. i.e., catch (const my_exception &) before the base catch (const std::runtime_error &).
 
@BrettHale ML-based languages have pattern-match based exception handling, it works just as well, usually optimizes better too
@BrettHale the big restriction is that the hierachy must be completely known to each translation unit
@BrettHale in C++, classes are (usually) never added at runtime anyway, so if you had a whole program compiler you could do the same thing, just convert class hierachies to discriminated unions and virtual table lookup into pattern matching
 
@StephenLin, honestly, I've never done any serious functional programming since my uni days. I'm woefully ignorant of state-of-the-art today.
 
the whole idea is that you have a fixed set of types to match against, so you can optimize your lookup against that, and do inlining too as appropriate
the C++ compiler, since every translation unit is separate and doesn't know about classes defined in other ones, instead has to protect itself against any possible function from any translation unit being the target of a virtual call, in the general case
 
@StephenLin do you mean something similar to jump tables in code generated by modern compilers?
 
yeah, pattern matching can use jump tables in the simplest form
but it's much more sophisticated in more complicated pattern matches
very very well optimized though
since the compiler can see all the possible targets
state of the art for C (in handling switch statements, for example) is child's play compared to what happens for native-code generating compilers for functional programming languages with algebraic datatypes and pattern matching
you could do dynamic linking, too, if the linker were smart enough
it's not like Java or C# where new types are literally defined at runtime
also, the problem is not the overhead of the call, the problem is that it's opaque
it's the opportunity cost of having the call be impossible for the compiler to predict at compile-time that kills you, and you can't measure it directly usually
also, it's a self-reinforcing problem, because no one bothers to do serious interprocedural optimization in C++ because of the compilation model and virtual functions, but no one gets any benefit fixing the compilation model and virtual functions because there's no serious interprocedural optimization
(and I really do mean no serious interprocedural optimization, comparatively)
 
7:10 AM
I've just run into a good friend I lost touch some 7 years ago. Feels so weird.
 
As an example (and a common one in abstraction libraries), a basic stream I/O class with virtual read and write methods, perhaps as purely abstract methods, is inherited, and implemented by, say, a TCP/IP stream socket read and write. It's a very useful paradigm in this case - but does it warrant language support? i.e., OpenSSL (and SSLeay) managed everything with callback structs in C.
 
(a binary decision whether to inline is not serious interprocedural optimization)
 
@StackedCrooked Saw that half an hour ago, cracked me up. :D
 
@DogPlusPlus She's good :)
 
7:12 AM
@BrettHale you can do that all without virtual functions though (i mean, you can implement the semantics of virtual without "virtual tables" and "virtual pointers")
it's just impractical because of the compilation model
nothing in the standard prevents it though
 
@DogPlusPlus, was it awkward? 'I'm sorry' vs. 'No, I'm sorry'. I have been a pretty poor friend to some people I've known a long time lately. Not through malice - just neglect.
 
you could just make every translation model compile to its own source do as output, and redefine "linking" (including dynamic library linking) as everything else
so you generate algebraic datatypes corresponding to class hierarchies when you have all the code, not before
guarantee that it would make everything faster
 
@StephenLin, then you have plugin architectures. i.e., a render node as a shared object that relies entirely on dynamic dispatch.
 
@BrettHale it's just a question of how you organize code, really, and how smart your "linking" process is
i don't seriously mean do "all compilation" at link-time
but if the right meta-data were encoded at the right places, you could generate all the dynamic dispatch at link-time
once you knew all the types involved
even ".so" files have a lot of metadata that needs to be massaged before they're directly loaded into memory as instructions
it's not theoretically impossible or hard even, it just sounds that way because we're used to the current linking model
but the division of what's done at link-time and compile-time is basically arbitrary and a product of historical evolution
your question is what could be done is polymorphism were added now instead of at the beginning, and (IMHO) that's the answer
 
@StephenLin It's an interesting idea though, given link time optimizing compilers - llvm, gcc have LTO. binutils has the 'gold' linker, etc.
 
7:20 AM
yeah, but they're not that smart
it's very binary
it's either "can i devirtualize?" or no
just like the inlining decision is "can i inline?" or no
that's about it
a lot of language-specific guarantees are lost by the time LTO kicks in anyway
since that information is not part of the low-level bytecode (LLVM IR or whatever)
anyway, I'm out, but thanks for bringing up the topic @BrettHale -- it's one I like discussing
 
@StephenLin No worries.
 
Should the name of constants include the actual value of the constant? someNumber.truncate(DECIMALS_TO_KEEP) vs someNumber.truncate(KEEP_TWO_DECIMALS)
(There is probably no definite answer, I'm looking for your opinion)
 
GUYS
GUYS GUYS GUS YS GUYS GUYS
I found a programmer BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTT
He works primarily in Unity and has only "Dabbled" in C++.
 
and?
 
I need to find a way to test him before I say "yey or nay"
 
7:29 AM
and?
 
He has no website to speak of, and said nothing of Git/Mercurial/SVN repos or contributions he's made.
 
and?
 
I don't know how to evaluate his skill anymore, though I did get to see a live-demo of a random-generating platformer that goes from one point to another point (it generates a whole platforming level dynamically at different rates).
 
Are you trying to hire this guy?
 
I am not offering money.
 
7:30 AM
For no pay
 
But I do not want to ask someone to help me out who could be a technical liability and semi-retarded.
 
What do you expect out of him if he doesn't use C++?
 
I dunno. But it might be hard to find someone who will work for no pay and who won't be a technical liability and semi-retarded? :P
 
He already has a learning curve for the language
 
I did find C++ developers, but unnnfoortunately they are in their last semester and doing crunch time shit and thus can't be assed to help, even though one chick was super-duper interested (and asked me to contact her when the smester was over in May)
@Mysticial I know. ;~;
@Rapptz That's my biggest fear; that he'll be a script kiddie and not a real programmer. ._.
That he won't be able to handle doing proper C++.
Or even remotely unbad C++ >_<
 
7:32 AM
What are you on about
 
_> - < is a template declaration?
 
You said he uses Unity, which at least implies a bit of knowledge in C#
 
@Rapptz Or Javascript.
 
Which at least implies a bit of knowledge in a programming language
Point being
He has the learning curve of the language to circumvent
So it's automatically a no, at least in my eyes.
Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
You could let him "dabble" a bit, ask questions, see how he thinks and then decide like any decent human being.
 
So give him access to the repo, see what he's capable of?
Axe him if he sucks?
 
7:35 AM
No, give him something to do
kinda like a unit test
 
Oooh.
Okay.
 
Put him on stackoverflow and see what happens.
 
@ThePhD. You get what you pay for. If you pay nothing, you should at least give him the opportunity to learn, no?
 
@Mysticial ^
 
True enough...
Welp, I'll invite him in tomorrow.
He goes nothin'!
 
7:37 AM
See if he can get to 20 rep. If can do it, then bring him in here.
If he lasts 24 hours... I'd say it's a green light. :P
 
Heh.
I'll e-mail him, ask him if he has any repos, ask him if he has a stackoverflow page, link him my games and other silly small stuff...
See what he thinks. Offer him access. Test his feet... maybe with a bit of resource loading stuff.
 
Let the Robot and guys grind him with some templates and stuff and see if he holds up. :P
 
@Mysticial - if he can survive "I'm older than you, so... end of argument"? I was just looking at SSE tags before:)
 
@Mysticial Oh god. Put him through Luc Danton and Xeo and Robot?
He'd never survive. :c
 
@ThePhD yes :)
Fun Fact: I wouldn't survive either. :)
 
7:40 AM
But you know C now; you might be able to last a bit longer!
... Huh. ReadDirectoryChangesW freezes the thread that it's called from until changes happen.
 
user1357851
revived by my 20 mins power nap
 
PhD, what are you actually working on that requires so many peeps? :D
 
Ell
@thephd why are you using the W suffixed version?
 
@Ell Unicode, of course.
I've #define UNICODE and #define _UNICODE, but just to be extra pedantic I always use the W versions (wide_char versions).
@DogPlusPlus It's not lots of different people. I have myself as 1 programmer, 3 artists, and then I'm trying to get another programmer to help.
 
Ell
Windows does that for you im Pretty sure
 
7:44 AM
@Ell It does, which is why I'm being "extra pedantic"
 
Ell
Oh I see
 
When can we stop tagging questions with 'C++11', as opposed to 'C++'?
 
In 2011?
 
greetings
 
Welcome to the C++ IRC
 
7:48 AM
@KhaledAKhunaifer, hello!
 
hey brett
I'm a computer scientist, mathematician, and philosopher
 
@KhaledAKhunaifer In that order?
 
I'm a magician
 
what makes a secret a secret is hidden details
 
7:50 AM
@Mikhail - a thousand years ago, you would have been:)
 
From my experience math is magic. I can do magnetics in MEEP, but I can't figure out the math.
 
@BrettHale Web dev is my day job, I work on research in my free time (personal research)
since I live in Saudi Arabia, they don't care about scientific achievements really
 
I see computer science as platonic, like mathematics. It exists whether we have computers or not. It's our job to drag it into the physical world.
 
@BrettHale Maybe, but certainly not my day to day programming.
 
Ell
7:53 AM
@thephd you need programmers eh?
Is your code base public?
 
@Ell Yerp.
And, uh.
No, it's not. The repo and other related things are private.
 
@BrettHale Universities and Research centers focus is not scientific achievement but public image, so they refused to employee me
 
@Mikhail - yeah. Maybe a little grandiose for some of the more boring tasks:)
 
Ell
would said programmer need to be full time? How many hours a week are you talking?
 
@KhaledAKhunaifer - so what is it that you would like to focus on?
 
7:56 AM
@BrettHale my current research, on modeling mind and heart, I'm working on the philosophical structure now .. but I only have few hours weekly
@BrettHale maybe I'd abandon it at some point, making living is more important as a human
 
@Ell Why does it matter if it's public, again? :o
 
@KhaledAKhunaifer So, it's a difficult thing for a research institution to quantify. Plenty of people have their 'bread and butter' jobs, but still have to pursue their passions in their own time. Ideally we would all like them to be the same thing.
 

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