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1:00 PM
well then, one never stops learning
everyday I encounter some new C++ construct I had never heard or seen before
 
@TonyTheLion that's just good ole range
anyway using .first and .second that way sucks
 
When the hell would I have ever used ranges?
 
I dunno, my life is better since I understood them
 
@BartekBanachewicz I find it confusing in a for loop with something called a map
 
Now all my resources load from ranges
 
1:02 PM
[begin, end) is an open ended range
what's the hard part?
 
@TonyTheLion yeah, that's why I think it's badly written.
I use boost::begin and boost::end
 
for (auto range : ranges) may be better?
but terrible naming
 
that's a range of ranges
 
range ception
 
well that's why "pair of iterators" is a terrible concept imo
boost::iterator_range is superior
 
1:05 PM
It's not.
It's a pair of iterators.
 
but its confusing used in a loop with a map
because .first and .second doesn't look like anything iterable
 
Xeo
pair of iterators sucks, wrapped pair of iterators is superior - Bartek
 
but I'm biased because it just confused the fuck out of me
 
Xeo
You seem to have a lot of these statements lately @Bartek
 
1:06 PM
lol
WRAP ALL THE THINGS
 
It looks pretty wrong.
 
@Xeo except boost::begin/end works on the "wrapped pair", so yeah, I still consider it superior
 
Meh, boost::begin/end works on pair<Iterator, Iterator> too.
 
oh, that's new.
 
1:11 PM
If by "new" you mean "since ever".
 
Anyway, there's still probably something added
 
@BartekBanachewicz There isn't.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ... for me
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "adaptor pattern"?
 
It's just a name.
 
1:11 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes are you telling me they made full blown-200LoC class just for kicks?
 
damn you chrome! making me test running you with no extensions.
 
Dammit, I can't specialize a struct in a different namespace.
 
> The standard library uses std::pair in some circumstances, but that class is cumbersome to use because we need to specify two template arguments, and for all range algorithm purposes we must enforce the two template arguments to be the same. Moreover, std::pair<iterator,iterator> is hardly self-documenting whereas more domain specific class names are. Therefore these two classes are provided:
 
@BartekBanachewicz It adds some trivial stuff like size() and so on.
 
It is still enough for me to consider it superior
 
1:13 PM
Nothing a bunch of free functions couldn't do.
It shares all the same suckiness of pairs of ranges (see horrid example code above)
 
I don't get it TBH Iterator { boost::end(range), boost::end(range) }
it's something wicked and coming this way
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Why is one Iterator initialized with () and the other with {}? :P
 
@ScottW I did it by hand
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz What part don't you understand?
 
@Xeo why the iterator is constructed from two iterators(?)
 
1:20 PM
@ScottW AFAOK there is no feature, you just have to through the transcript yourself
 
Hey y'all
I'm just here to post this
3
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Because it's actually a range itself, wrapped in an iterator interface
It needs to know its own end for advancing
 
Hi, I'd like to store a list of integers in a string then compute the maximum except for the lowest values. How would I do that with Windows ?
 
@LuchianGrigore ಠ_ಠ
 
1:22 PM
Btw, you said we are not getting ranges for C++14
Tis true?
 
@ereOn you want to do what? and 'with Window'?
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz I do wonder where that comes from
 
@Xeo that's ogonek
 
Okay did that. Worked well. Thanks !
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Well, no range paper pre-Bristol, no ranges in C++14
 
1:23 PM
@Xeo Haha, yeah, I noticed too. I changed one to () for debugging once and forgot to put it back. ({} gives errors like "no function for call to f(<brace-initializer-list>)", while () gives "no function for call to f(T, U)")
 
Xeo
Why do you think I was so stressed to provide that []foo proposal before March 15th? :P
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah
@BartekBanachewicz So...?
 
@thecoshman Was actually a joke (sort-of)
 
@Xeo umm, I answered your question, no?
 
1:24 PM
lol
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz I meant the "sigh"
 
@TonyTheLion Looks like a Doberganger to me.
 
@Xeo "range wrapped in an iterator interface"
 
@Xeo It's better than having half-assed-just-as-broken-ranges, tbh (see Java's repeated attempts failures at fixing APIs).
 
Xeo
Shows how retarded iterators really are.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I agree
 
1:26 PM
@TonyTheLion And my identity is about to be completely lost.
 
Xeo
Also, Andrei's range talk was good
Glad I finally watched it
 
@Xeo "Iterators must die" or some other?
 
@DomagojPandža your identity?
 
You'll see ^^
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz "... must go", but yes
 
1:27 PM
@Xeo DIE, you filthy iterator!
yea, it's a nice talk
I didn't watch the whole one but read the slides thoroughly
 
Good morning all.
 
Mawning
 
@BartekBanachewicz It might sound stupid but that's what the iterator design forces you into sometimes. Which is also why I don't find boost::iterator_range a big improvement of pair<Iterator, Iterator>: it solves none of the important problems.
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Do it, it's worth it.
 
hi @casperOne
 
1:29 PM
Yes, it's going to be one of those days, a moderator has come to the Lounge of Zoidberg (you guys should have really kept that name) to talk moderation issues.
Hey @BartekBanachewicz
 
@casperOne What have we done now?
 
what are we moderating today?
 
IOW, there is no way to implement those semantics with iterators without doing that crazy range-in-an-iterator thing.
 
Ah, nothing, I want your guys input on a question.
28
Q: Is there a general consensus in the C++ community on when exceptions should be used?

pepsiI just spent a few hours reading through SO questions on the topic of when to use exceptions, and it seems like there are two camps with different point of views: Use exceptions over error codes Use error codes most of the time, and exceptions only when some catastrophic error occurs Is this ...

 
How is it that when you search for "C++" in the french app store, the second result is a book written by the president of France ?
 
1:30 PM
Fire away!
 
that was precisely what I was asking :)
 
@ereOn lol
@casperOne What about this question?
 
So, this is not a constructive question (since the C++ community is not limited to just Stack Overflow, and even if it was, it's subjective).
 
It's a pretty old question. That alone should make one approach it carefully.
 
@casperOne I would probably vtc if it was asked today.
 
1:31 PM
That said, I want to know how valuable it is to you.
 
So much work to do. So little will.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes As would I. That said, do you have a reference question that this could be closed as a duplicate of? I know you guys are fond of that stuff (reference questions)
 
The answers aren't really epic.
 
And I don't think it has much value: what does it matter if there's a consensus?
 
I find the info useful though
 
1:32 PM
I'm looking to see if there's a way to close it as something other than non constructive, or, if you guys want a shot at cleaning it up and making it something that you'll all love and nurture until heat death.
 
it would need to be severely rephrased
 
Or, if you're ok with a not constructive closing, just going on that.
 
as in "benefits/drawbacks of exceptions"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You mean on what to do with the question, or a consensus on the question as asked?
 
because asking for opinion is no-brainer non-constructive vtc
 
Xeo
1:33 PM
I don't think mere "refactoring" would work
You'd need to purge all answers
@casperOne The latter, I think
Just close it, I say.
 
Closing is good.
 
Alright, it seems you guys are pretty ambivalent about this one. Done. Thanks for the input.
 
Xeo, please kill it with fire.
 
Xeo
Already been on it
 
user1357851
1:34 PM
nice doggie, so obedient
 
meh, I don't see a reason to do anything with it all, it's been there for a number of years, and it hasn't had any activity, so why do anything with it at all? The info can only be useful, no?
 
Go away, Telkitty.
 
@casperOne Yeah, I meant consensus within the question's universe. I won't miss it if it goes but I won't buy a pitchfork to get rid of it.
 
@TonyTheLion apparently someone thought it "required moderator attention"
 
@TonyTheLion Leaving it open means more opinions thrown into the mix.
 
1:35 PM
Somebody on Twitter was complaining yesterday about the existence of the term “Modern C++”
here is why I think we need the term:
@KonradRudolph when you need efficiency, manual memory management is often a must — simpleBob 2 mins ago
 
Laters all.
 
@casperOne but it hasn't had any activity for a year...
 
@KonradRudolph what?
 
anyway, whatever
 
Later.
 
1:36 PM
@Xeo 🔥
 
Xeo
@KonradRudolph Oh gawd...
 
I'm really not in the mood to give a crap
 
@TonyTheLion Cleanup is a continuous process. Book list questions, homework questions. They haven't been touched for a year (or years), but the garbage is still there.
 
@simpleBob You can write custom allocators for stdlib structures, so being unsafe doesn't really have any benefits at all. — Bartek Banachewicz 7 secs ago
 
mark and sweep
under the table
 
1:37 PM
@KonradRudolph When you need efficiency, you need programmers that don't make such statements.
 
user1357851
@KonradRudolph manual memory management is needed for predictability
 
Xeo
@casperOne You guys should spin up more GC.Collect threads :P
@Telkitty No it's not
 
@Xeo that means more mods, no?
 
@Telkitty cough
 
@Telkitty No
 
user1357851
1:38 PM
you could be busy processing information, then garbage collection kicks in
 
@Xeo =P Unfortunately, it's just the 15 of us.
 
@Telkitty Who said anything about garbage collection?
 
@casperOne I remember when there were like three or something.
 
And anyone over 10K who can cast a close vote or go into the review queues (*cough* *cough*)
 
@Xeo plcoughonk
 
1:39 PM
There are incremental GCs, there are multithreaded GCs
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't think I cared or knew what a mod was until two years ago.
 
Stop repeating things about things you have barely any idea about
5
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz I have to agree with @sehe here - I feel a duty to protect you from something like that.
 
When I cared to run.
 
user1357851
@casperOne why discriminating the newbs?
 
1:39 PM
@Telkitty Because it's valuable discrimination.
 
@Telkitty I didn't make the rep requirements.
 
@Xeo Oh, the Guardians of Sanity! You're welcome, then.
 
And the queue rep requirement is separate from the close vote requirement (actually, that's like 3K)
 
That kind of discrimination exists everywhere.
 
Egocentric much
 
1:40 PM
@CatPlusPlus <3
 
@CatPlusPlus I feel like you're talking about me :|
 
@Telkitty You can always click the Leave button.
 
@TonyTheLion Nah
 
I don't think Telkitty gets it.
 
Xeo
@DogPlusPlus But then nobody would pay attention to it! :O
 
1:41 PM
lolwut
 
At what
 
lolwut
 
lolwoof
 
Xeo
lawl
Doma changed nick
 
1:42 PM
@DogPlusPlus I just noticed your name. ROFL <3
 
Xeo
Dafuq
 
@Xeo Was Domagoj.
 
user1357851
the changes are pushed hourly/every 2 hours?
 
-1 not enough monocles
3
 
@CatPlusPlus Hmm
 
1:43 PM
Had to do it, the pic was too powerful.
 
hehehe
 
Automatic memory management is for newbies. When you rock, you allocate and free everything by yourself.
 
no, you use RAII
 
When you rock you drown
 
No that's for pussies.
 
1:44 PM
I'm drowning already
 
can some one with MSVC tell me the error it will generate if you have an inline function that you have implemented in the .cpp rather then in the header
 
user1357851
Cat++ = pussy++
 
Why does something like reading in a text file have to cause so much trouble?
 
@ereOn The C room is down the corridor and down the abyss.
 
@ereOn is trolling you so much
 
1:44 PM
@thecoshman None
 
RAII is unpredictable : and worse : you can't call delete with RAII !
so you leak memory
 
Xeo
-1, too obvious
 
Is this guy trolling? He's trollin', right?
 
1:45 PM
We should pay a visit to the C room
 
he's trolling
 
I should write a C++ book with a lot of non-sense like that.
 
@CatPlusPlus ah you know what I mean
 
@ereOn it would be number 1 on 90% of universities
 
Just to see if some teachers recommend it
 
1:45 PM
lulz
 
... exactly
 
"Typical C++ programming: write a singleton class + factory. Advice: don't forget to delete your singleton when you are done."
 
ohoho
that's nearly as fun as protected destructors
 
@ereOn lol wut
 
room topic changed to Lounge<Pet++>: All pets get incremented. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [no-helpdesk]
2
 
1:47 PM
haha
 
@thecoshman Linker error or nothing
 
"User : I want to get rid of this
Factory : Give it back you scrub!"
 
something like
// foo.h
struct foo { void bar();}
// foo.cpp
#includes
inline void foo::bar(){ std::cout << "LOL";}
// main.cpp
// attempt to call .bar on a foo
 
Where is puppy today? Has someone euthanized him?
 
I want a sample of the error it would actually generate
 
1:48 PM
Linker error
Or nothing
Why the fuck is it snowing again
 
So, when do I get to chase Cat++ up the tree?
 
yeah... but I want a copy of the error it actually generates, to update a question
 
@DogPlusPlus a btree, binary tree or red-black tree?
 
"unresolved external symbol" or whatever
 
@CatPlusPlus Sunny here in midlands.
 
1:49 PM
@CatPlusPlus Can't reproduce I don't see a window from my dark corner
 
@TonyTheLion Octree, of course! Lots of branches, lots of challenges! :D
 
¬_¬ would it kill you to just write some bad code and tell me exactly what MSVC bitches about?
@TonyTheLion oh, turns out my family care more about where the dog sleeps then me, so I am not going any more
@R.MartinhoFernandes I saw that :P
 
I just did like three times jesus
 
I want an actual sample of the actual output that MSVC actually generates, not a vague 'something like this'
 
@DogPlusPlus To be honest, octrees are kinda easy compared to btrees or rbtrees.
 
1:51 PM
error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol "public: void __thiscall bar::foo(void)" (?foo@bar@@QAEXXZ) referenced in function _main
1>C:\Users\TonyTheLion\Documents\Visual Studio 2012\Projects\foo\Debug\foo.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
 
Very useful
 
@TonyTheLion thanks man (presuming you didn't just make that up) :P
 
@TonyTheLion I got plinked by "@bar" in that
 
@thecoshman no, I didn't make that up, I actually made the code
 
fyi I copied unresolved external symbol from compiler output
 
1:52 PM
just the class is called bar and foo is the function
 
That's the important part~
 
@BartekBanachewicz Time to change you name to @QAEXXZ
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol
 
1 message moved to bin
Too large
 
like your mom
 
1:53 PM
E_TOOBIG
 
oh gawd, dat moderation
 
In favour
 
Oh, hey, also, @CatPlusPlus, I threw together a new bin for animated GIFs.
 
Shall I change my nick to Lion Plus Plus?
 
I was just too late bin that. Also: that was horrific cat education fail
 
user1357851
@sehe bear++
 
@ShotgunNinja :effort:
 
@TonyTheLion close enough :)
 
And the purpose of that would be...?
 
@ShotgunNinja goto r/upvotegifs on Reddit and paste all the links in that room
 
1:54 PM
@CatPlusPlus Taking a break from work? Idk.
 
@sehe or "The North Pole"
 
user1357851
Cat++ skipping sleep more likely
 
If someone wants to close it, I don't care. I just felt like making it, so I did.
 
anyone here using ninja ?
 
It's not like it's hurting anyone or anything.
@ereOn What do you mean by 'using ninja'?
 
1:56 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, yes, although they're all relatively simple when you're involved with them. I think we were just looking for the visually "most diverse" of the common ones, since octree nodes have 8 children. So the imaginary Cat++ could have its pick of branches on the imaginary octree. :D
 
oh lol
We need a Mouse++ for Cat to have ball with
 
@TonyTheLion You could for a while. :D
 
user1357851
OMG that cat in the bin is so damn cute ♥ ❤ ❥❣ ❦ ❧ ♡ ۵ ღ ♋
 
but my identity
:|
 
Well, Telkitty, you're welcome to move to the bin.
 
1:58 PM
@DogPlusPlus where she belongs
 
user1357851
@DogPlusPlus Thanks for the invitation, maybe another time
 
Well, I think she has the largest amount of posts there.
 
^ you made my argument.
 
There we go, finally took the time to improve my inline question
 
user1357851
lambs tend to move in herds, a leopard will act alone
 
1:59 PM
Usually, Telkitty-types ragequit by now and talk shit about us on reddit. This one's stubborn.
 

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