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7:00 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I paid 10 pounds sterling
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ridiculous
 
@TonyTheLion What kind of movies do you like?
 
Meta on meta, eh.
 
I want action or comedy
 
@bamboon I'm serious.
 
7:00 PM
@StackedCrooked not really into Anime
 
Tickets here are around 4€ too.
 
I have a discount, but the regular price is €5.20.
 
@TonyTheLion Airplane! and The Naked Gun series are some of my favorite comedies.
 
6 EUR here.
 
Tickets are generally 10$ here. I paid more because of some special ultra large screen thing with better sound and more comfy seats.
 
7:01 PM
If only there weren't people in cinemas.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, I believe you. but here in germany you easily pay > 11 € in a big city and that's not even 3D
 
@StackedCrooked in Ghent? it's more than that IMHO
 
My movie ticket is usually about 6.50 US.
 
@TonyTheLion Yeah, I forgot the exact price.
 
7:02 PM
So UK is most expensive, damnit
 
@CatPlusPlus yes why not. ... :)
 
Meta is a silly place.
 
We know that.
 
@CatPlusPlus Oh? What have they done now?
 
I need to get an Ipad
 
7:05 PM
What for?
iPadding?
 
Being cool, obviously.
 
iPaddery
 
so I can browse the internet in my bed
 
lol
Browsing the Internet on a tablet is a horrible experience IME.
 
@StackedCrooked (around 1088) "European clockworks of the following centuries shed this old method for a more efficient driving power of weights, in addition to the escapement mechanism." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock#Early_mechanical_clocks
 
7:06 PM
I always miss my keyboard when on a tablet.
 
My mum has an iPad and I've found it to be fairly ok
 
@TonyTheLion Oh, so it's more like iFapping.
 
@Collecter my brother has an ASUS transformer which has a dock and ... keyboard.
 
A laptop with a detachable touch screen.
 
@rubenvb And I always think at that point just get a small laptop.
 
7:09 PM
@Collecter but then you don't have the tablet coolness. And the apps.
Some apps are really handy to use.
newsreaders come to mind.
 
@rubenvb Why not just go to a news website?
 
Just wait until Windows 8. Then you can get all the app "coolness" without a tablet.
 
Or a touch screen
Is Metro actually usable without a touch screen?
 
@Collecter why not use a news reader like Google Currents or Pulse news
 
@EtiennedeMartel yes
 
7:11 PM
it has everything in one place, scaled correctly, short loading times, etc...
@EtiennedeMartel you swipe with your mouse
More laptops will have built-in touch screens.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes For the most part it's fine. Sometimes I want to read something and it's nice to be able to lay down or take a dump with full interwebs.
 
I read trees when I'm taking a dump.
 
0
Q: Python Brute Force algorithm

MadushanI need to generate every possible combination from a given charset to a given range. Like, charset=list(map(str,"abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz")) range=10 And the out put should be, [a,b,c,d..................,zzzzzzzzzy,zzzzzzzzzz] I know I can do this using already in use libraries.But I nee...

sometimes brute force is not the way to go
 
> earned at least 200 reputation on 150 days
:D
 
7:18 PM
@sr2222 Yes I'v tried,And I'v done it with numbers.When it comes to strings.I'v no luck. — Madushan 1 min ago
Meh, people that have no sense of scale.
 
@rubenvb What the hell for.
 
@CatPlusPlus supporting Windows 8 obviously.
 
What.
 
lol
 
Win8 is already a trainwreck.
 
7:20 PM
@KeithLayne lol, "full" interwebs on a "mobile device"?
 
I didn't say I could nicely look at the interwebs, but I'm comforted to know that they're always there, floating around my head.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes All desktop browsers have a mobile version by now. It's not by far as bad as you think.
 
@rubenvb It's not as I think. I've used them.
 
chrome no support my tablet :(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what, when, and where?
 
7:22 PM
Daily.
Opera, Chrome, and Firefox.
 
ok.
And what sucks?
 
I need to think about it to to pinpoint that. All I know is that I don't find it pleasing at all.
 
the stock android browser blows for tabs(or lack thereof)/multi-window interface.
 
Firefox even supports adblock plus.
And flash is available.
I find Opera on Android very pleasing (and zippy)
 
does it do tabs or such well?
and by pleasing and zippy, is that porn related?
 
7:27 PM
lol at the chat flags. If that was in this room, it'd have 8 stars instead of 8 flags.
 
I don't see any flags.
 
There was a second before I finished typing.
 
The guy was suspended.
 
It was something like, "add prostitute to that, and you'll have 5g in a month".
 
But it's not the first message from that guy that gets flagged.
 
7:29 PM
@KeithLayne no, it has GPU rendering while my Android 2.2 browser does not. It loads fast, especially with the Opera server-side rendering on mobile vs wifi.
 
@rubenvb I think the typing is a great contributor to my annoyances.
 
I "invalid"ated that last one.
@R.MartinhoFernandes get an external keyboard
or dock-with-tablet, like the Transformer.
 
Then I'd rather grab an Eee PC or some shit like that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes the swipe thing works great for me. Not Swype, that sucks.
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's what I have. 3.5 years, still works great. But not for all the time.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes if you actually never use Android apps, I would agree, but there are a lot of apps using your fingers for is a pleasure. (and no, this is not pron related)
 
7:31 PM
What apps?
 
My brothers EEEPC was dog slow. Unusably slow.
@R.MartinhoFernandes with newsreaders as an example:
21 mins ago, by rubenvb
@Collecter why not use a news reader like Google Currents or Pulse news
 
Games are another.
 
I can read news on a browser.
 
@rubenvb: Word. A friend got an EEEPC with Vista, OEM software pre-installed. Took some time to make it even possible to open the start menu without having to get a coffee in order to don't die of boredom.
 
7:33 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes IMHO with a worse experience. Not all news in the same place, presentation sucks.
 
It's a bunch of text. I don't see how it can be so much greater.
@rubenvb Are you saying there are no aggregators for the desktop?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes no, I'm saying they suck.
 
I have a EEE901 linux version (20GB ssd). Popped another 1GB of RAM in, use a light linux desktop, and I'm good.
 
@KeithLayne it's the RAM and Atom that suck them.
And GPU.
A netbook is the ultimate APU target IMHO.
 
@Zeta well, yeah, a desktop OS on a subnotebook is unlikely to work well.
That's why Windows 8.
 
7:35 PM
lol.
 
@ecatmur that's why MS think Windows 8.
They didn't think far enough. Or good enough.
 
I also tried a couple of games on the tablet and well... I'm not the kind of target gamer audience of tablets.
@rubenvb I can't argue with that.
I'm fine with a list of titles that I can select to open and read.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ok. I can understand that. I'm not either. My brother (and his gf) is.
@R.MartinhoFernandes yuck. :P
 
I have an iostreams question. First off, I know, don't use iostreams. I agree. It's not my choice. :P Now: what's the most robust way to print a number in hex to an ostringstream passed into my function as a parameter?
...without permanently altering the stringstream's settings
 
Oh boy. You're screwed. That's a fucking mess.
 
7:39 PM
@Quuxplusone Wash your mouth out. iostreams are awesome.
 
There's something in boost for that.
 
mobile games are not real games, they are a waste of time.
shooting birds around, how retarded is that.
 
Did the C++11 committee basically abandon iostreams as a dead end? Otherwise I would have expected manipulators like std::iostream_push_settings, std::iostream_pop_settings to have made it in.
bam, there we are. boost agrees with me. :P
 
There's a proposal for that.
 
7:40 PM
@Quuxplusone no, streams are still the only way to go in C++, since nobody has come up with a replacement
 
@MooingDuck FILE* :)
 
@Quuxplusone Is a hell of a lot worse.
 
I use FILE* in all my personal code, since (a) formatted output with printf() and (b) access to the fileno on POSIX systems.
 
std::ios_base::fmtflags flags{str.flags()};
// do stuff
str.flags(flags);
 
@Quuxplusone 1. Create fresh stringstream. 2. Change settings of stringstream. 3. stream to stringstream. 4. Output stream's contents as string to the parameter.
 
7:42 PM
@ecatmur does that include error flags?
 
@ecatmur does that work? nice.
 
@Quuxplusone streams are better than FILE*
 
@ecatmur That might be enough for std::hex, but isn't enough for everything.
 
@EtiennedeMartel lol
 
@Quuxplusone No extensibility and no type safety makes streams better than FILE* anyday.
 
7:43 PM
@rmartinho what doesn't it cover? the error state of the stream? I think that's fine, at least for an ostringstream
 
printf is terrible.
Use Boost.Format or FastFormat.
 
@Quuxplusone I'm not entirely sure. Like I said, it's a mess.
 
libc I/O is 10000 times worse than iostream ever was.
 
@DeadMG but you're not supposed to subclass ostream anyway, right? I agree you have a point, though; it's a lot easier to make a new "stream-ish" class than to make something that behaves like a FILE*
i.e., it's basically impossible to make something that behaves like a FILE*
 
@rubenvb it's all the format flags, but not the error flags.
 
7:44 PM
@Quuxplusone I mean in terms of, any UDT can create it's own operator<<.
whereas nobody can create their own printf specifiers.
 
@DeadMG in GNU C you can ;)
not that I do
 
@Quuxplusone Sure, because that's not a gigantic mess.
the type safety and extensibility of streams is far superior to FILE* and they win every time.
 
also, I wasn't thinking of "oh noes I can't print my complicated data type". That's not a problem I need to solve very often. I was thinking of "oh noes I don't want to read from this file directly; I want to apply one or two filters to the input stream before processing it"
That's what's hard with FILE*
 
Boost.IOStreams uses a Filter concept.
 
7:46 PM
Printing complicated types is just as hard with or without streams; you have to write a function, and then call it. Which syntax you use to call the function (operator<< or function pointer) doesn't bother me.
 
@TonyTheLion Hmm. I'm sensing a trend in those search results, but I just can't quite put my finger on it.
 
@Quuxplusone Except using << is generic, and the other choice is not.
 
@DeadMG Also, actually I would argue that ostreams are less "type-safe". I'm abusing the term a bit I know. :)
 
@Quuxplusone template <typename T> void print(const T& t) { std::cout << t; }
do that with printf
 
@Quuxplusone Nothing can be less typesafe than printf.
 
7:47 PM
@SamDeHaan It's a terrible trend :P
 
but you can't argue that << is both "type-safe" and generic. ostream silently does the wrong thing with the wrong type. printf (in practice) complains when you pass the wrong type.
 
@Quuxplusone Plain wrong.
 
complains at compile time, that is.
 
@Quuxplusone Erm. What.
 
printf("%d", "hi there");
complains
cout << "hi there"
 
7:48 PM
@Quuxplusone ostream always does exactly the right thing or complains
 
uh, only for your specific implementation, in the narrow case in which it can do so instead of in the general case.
 
just prints the string
in practice
 
@Quuxplusone Doesn't do any wrong things.
 
@Quuxplusone What else did you expect?
that's the exactly correct behaviour.
 
Doesn't break any types.
 
7:49 PM
What if the variable being output is MyAppleCount ?
 
printf("%s", "cat"); // why doesn't this print dog?
This is a stupid argument.
 
@Quuxplusone What about it?
 
@Quuxplusone it fails to compile, and unless you write wrong code for that overload, it does the right thing.
 
you can make user mistakes with either. With iostreams it's never UB
 
Does it? I bet MyAppleCount has an operator void*() or something.
 
7:50 PM
I'm bored
 
I have no idea what you're talking about now.
 
@Quuxplusone Why the fuck would it do that?
 
ugh.
 
Or maybe MyAppleCount is just an unsigned type, and I wanted to print it as signed.
 
7:51 PM
What the fuck do you want?
 
@Quuxplusone How do you print an unsigned type as signed? That's simply not possible.
 
@Quuxplusone well don't bloody lie to the compiler then. And if you do that with printf it will be wrong at best also or UB quite likely
 
@Quuxplusone Or maybe you wanted to print "dog" and you wrote "cat". So what?
 
Isn't printing a signed int with an unsigned format string wrong?
 
@Quuxplusone if you want to print a certain way, you have to format/cast it in both cases. Neither version can read your mind
 
7:51 PM
@rubenvb Yeah, I think it's undefined.
 
as in, not quite right per C standard?
This guy is rambling nonsense. yay!
 
It was unclear in C99. The types are compatible.
 
@rubenvb It's ok.
 
Why the fuck would you create an unsigned int and want to print a signed int, where both are the same int ?
I mean, why the complexity
if you want to print a signed int, then fucking create a signed int and be done with it
 
So, what is this troll babbling about?
 
7:53 PM
I've no idea.
 
why come troll this room for this blabber bullshit?
 
The point is, printf() makes all the type stuff pretty explicit. I know exactly what kind of output I'm going to get, and if it's not right, the compiler will tell me. In C++, the behavior depends on hidden information (by design. That's "encapsulation". It is often a good thing, I agree), and I personally don't care for it.
 
we have better things to talk about
 
Why would you expect the compiler to std::do_what_you_want_even_though_you_wrote_the_opposite()? That's the real question.
 
@EtiennedeMartel that printf is more typesafe than streams
 
7:53 PM
@Quuxplusone Oooh, so it's the usual "OO is bad because it hides information from you" argument.
Well, fuck me.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes stupid people are stupid
 
Yep, essentially.
 
@Quuxplusone In C++, the behaviour depends exactly on completely obvious information- the type of the object you pass to it.
 
@EtiennedeMartel lol.
 
@EtiennedeMartel If I understand correctly, he's mad that myostream << "hello"; prints hello, when he really wanted to print an integer.
 
7:54 PM
This guy has fallen too many times on his head.
 
well, apart from the flags stuff, which I agree sucks dick. But that's not part of the type safe/generic argument.
 
@MooingDuck that's bullocks
 
It's hidden state.
 
go away!
 
That's part and parcel of the "OO hides stuff from me" argument.
 
7:54 PM
It's hidden because it should be.
 
NO U
 
Both ways suck.
 
I also agree with Tocs.
 
@Quuxplusone The type is not hidden.
 
Yeah, indeed.
 
7:55 PM
wut?
 
The flags are hidden. The type is also non-obvious, in that it's not right there on the line with the output.
 
If you consider types hidden state in a statically-typed language... There's something wrong.
 
What flags?
 
@Quuxplusone You're moving goalposts.
 
std::hex etc. What we were originally talking about.
 
7:55 PM
@Quuxplusone Why should you care?
 
Flags are not related to the type.
 
I'm initiating operation plonk
 
yay
 
@Quuxplusone Flags are not part of generic/type safe. And you should always know the type.
 
BAM! Plonked
 
7:56 PM
and unlike printf, you can deal with a variable which you don't know the type of just fine.
 
In a template function, you can't even know the type, beyond that it's a "T"!
 
printf willfully avoids typeinfo and decides to take risky guesses
 
I want my damn compiler to use the best method available depending on the type. I don't know why I should have to specify the type a second time.
It's the same reason I like type inferrence: I don't like when I have to do the compiler's damn job.
 
@Quuxplusone That's the point.
 
@Quuxplusone So? What's the problem?
 
7:57 PM
Besides, I already pointed out that I'm using a slightly non-standard definition of "typesafe". I know C++ is statically typed, as is C.
 
The compiler will pick the best overload anyway.
 
If you want to know the type, write it down.
 
"Best" by the C++ compiler's POV is not necessarily what I want, though.
 
What's this? Insist-on-using-the-wrong-tool day?
2
 
@Quuxplusone normally it is if it isn't you can tell it what to use instead explicitly
 
7:57 PM
since I don't see his posts anymore, now I can just start a completely different discussion, and hopefully move everyone off this stupidity
 
@Quuxplusone Right, because mind-reading isn't usually a feature of compilers.
 
printf format strings violate DRY
 
@Quuxplusone Then write assembly.
 
@TonyTheLion So, how bout them Olympics?
 
@Quuxplusone So what? You can output it correctly anyway.
 
7:58 PM
@RMartinho there doesn't seem to be a good way to write types down in the middle of a C++ program, though. I think ML has something like "assert(type(foo) is bar)", right? but in C++, you have to dynamic_cast or something.
 
@SamDeHaan man, fuck the Olympics
 
@Quuxplusone But you should always know the type.
 
@Quuxplusone What?
 
and dynamic_cast is a runtime thing
 
anyways
 
7:58 PM
void f(int); works perfectly fine.
 
plonking and resuming work on sha-2
 
@Quuxplusone typeid or`std::is_same`
 
So wait, you got a bad understanding of C++, and you whine about it?
 
dynamic_cast is totally unrelated.
 
So I'm in the middle of a 100-line function, and I want to static_assert that the type of foo is bar...
 
7:58 PM
@Quuxplusone std::is_same.
 
oh, how's work on sha2 going puppy?
 
@TonyTheLion Halved my error.
 
@Quuxplusone OK, fine, you can do that
 
still got another 600 bits to decide though
 
oh wow
 
7:59 PM
@Quuxplusone static_assert(std::is_same<foo,bar>::value, "types must be the same fool")
 
because if a maintainer later changes the type of foo to baz, the code will continue to compile (because the compiler picks the best overload), but silently do the wrong thing.
 
@Quuxplusone Not necessarily.
 
I need like a little project I can work on
 
Not necessarily what?
 
Depends on the types.
 
7:59 PM
I wanted to write my on AVL tree implementation, but that sounds boring
 
Not necessarily do the wrong thing?
That's reassuring. :P
 

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