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12:01 PM
U+00C9 is É.
What were you expecting?
 
The letter itself, not the numerical code.
 
er...?
 
The typographical readable symbol instead of 3 digits and a slash.
 
I'm pretty sure Haskell doesn't concern itself with how characters are rendered visually. It returns a character code, end of story.
unless I'm misunderstanding something
 
¬_¬ too many emails in my inbox, really should clear it out
 
12:18 PM
what were people smoking when they decided that inheritance made code more extensible and reusable?
 
@Xeo You got internet?
 
well, the is alright fail
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's kind of what happened to me and my brother
Only we're older
and it wasn't games
I just became more tolerable by not play my music so loud and I started playing like [ambient stuff for concentration](musicforprogramming.net) and from that he was just more friendly then we watched comedy and played some games
 
mawning
 
12:36 PM
morning
Wait, it's like 1pm in London right ?
 
@kbok more like twenty to two
 
@jalf I find this very couterintuitive:
Prelude Data.Char> map toUpper "eéaànñ"
"E\201A\192N\209"
 
@thecoshman Yeah :) I'm at work so I have the habit to trucate the time by the hour
 
@rubenvb it must be possible to tell your shell to output unicode
 
@kbok I tend to round it up to the end of the day
 
12:41 PM
putStr works as it should
So now GHCi needs an extra command to output text correctly.
 
Xeo
@KianMayne Err, yes?
 
Wow. I just realised what a stupid question that was
What browser?
 
Xeo
IE :(
And no rights to download another one
 
OK, does the open file dialog work?
 
Xeo
Good question, got a dl link?
 
12:48 PM
For what?
Just press Ctrl-O
 
Xeo
Oh
And no, access restriction
 
Can you open up explorer?
 
Xeo
aye
 
Xeo
doesn't show C, though
 
12:49 PM
Is there a directory you can write to?
 
Xeo
and typing "C:\" in the address bar gets me an access restriction :P
no, only disk and cd drives
and my USB stick, if I plug it in
 
Yeah, not surprised
Yes usb stick!
Then create a shortcut to "command.com"
and open it up
 
Xeo
Can't use context menu
 
File->New->Shortcut
 
Xeo
No "File" in the header :(
 
12:52 PM
Press Alt
 
Xeo
Oh, right
access restriction
 
On shortcut creation?
 
Xeo
no, on executing the shortcut
 
Or .COM files
Hmm
 
Xeo
anyways, I'm off back to home
 
12:57 PM
Could you run some commands from shortcuts
 
lol cemented up pc
I had fun hacking around cheesy winXP access restrictins.
a trick is to reboot into safe mode ;-) change admin password, and voila
 
you can now inject Nutella
:P
 
and not get any of its great but boring taste.
 
I never thought I would be driven insane by a man clearing his throat. But he never stops. All day long. Whenever he's at his desk, it happens every ~15 seconds. Dear god, it's like he knows I'm doing this right now, frequency is down to every 2 seconds...
 
It seems Haskell has a thousand ways to do basic things.
 
1:09 PM
What is with everyone talking about Haskell here recently?
 
@Collecter it's not just a recent thing
 
I got pullled in. Sue me :P
btw, I'm not impressed by the utter basics.
 
@SamDeHaan oh, 0.5 Hz is used for mind control shit you know (crazy merican conspiracy theories)
 
@thecoshman It's the only answer that makes sense.
 
@SamDeHaan or course it does, they trying to steal your soul man!
 
1:15 PM
@SamDeHaan I once sat next to a man who sneezed every 10 seconds. This was in a library. I got a cold within 3 days of that :(
 
can any one point towards some reading material about at compile time switching implementation that is used, with out macros, ie let the compile chose which folder to take the implementation files from?
 
@thecoshman you mean using the build system?
 
@thecoshman It's a good thing I had an aluminum shell implanted under the skin on my head. It's like my favorite tinfoil hat, but nobody can trick me into taking it off
 
@SamDeHaan ಠ_ಠ good god!
@ecatmur may be... I'm not to sure :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Poor robot, you'll have to wait a while before you launch the revolution.
 
1:30 PM
:4740907 //implementation.cpp
#if _WIN32
#include <win32/implementation.cpp
#elif __linux
#include <linux/implementation.cpp
#elif __APPLE__
#include <mac/implementation.cpp
#else
#error "unknown implementation"
#endif
 
Damn that Raspberry Pi, keep thinking I might want to get one
 
Maybe one of the few cases including a source file might be acceptable.
Doing this for each source file is tedious, and the reason we invented build systems like CMake.
 
@thecoshman My uncle got me one :D
But gave it to my sister, who had moved out at that point and I haven't seen for ages
 
@rubenvb exactly the sort of mess I want to avoid. :P
@KianMayne what order did that happen in :P
 
@thecoshman You'll have to do the if someplace, be it CMakeLists.txt, qmake .pro file, Makefile.in or your own very ugly Makefile.
 
1:33 PM
There ;)
 
@KianMayne haven't seen her since, as in she has got obsessed with it?
 
@rubenvb Makefile.*am*, I think you'll find.
 
I very much doubt it. I just haven't been around
 
@ecatmur Right, but I'll never "find" that in any of my projects. Autotools is like every bad C macro magic code you can find.
 
I'm going to a social event, but everyone is paired up besides me, so I'm getting the host to install visual studio :L
 
1:37 PM
Raspberry pi can run XMBC? Awesome!
 
@rubenvb keep up :P
apparently it's rather good at playing 1080p
 
@rubenvb I plan to do XMBC, webserver, everything
 
@thecoshman it is ARMv6 though :(
 
@rubenvb not that big an issue
 
It's cool because of the low power usage
 
1:38 PM
@thecoshman True, as long as there's drivers an all.
 
and silent running
 
@rubenvb That's likely an artifact to avoid fucking up with your terminal emulator's encoding.
 
there are a few minor hacks you can do to it to make it that little bit more power efficient
 
Because the output of show is supposed to be round-trippable through read.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes those characters are very well supported by my Windows latin encoding crap. It's Haskell being "portable" (see one of the Qs I posted here)
 
1:41 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes what ever happened to that desert island book list?
 
Hmm. I only posted one.
The other I found was about patching GHC and writing wrappers to make GHCi do "the right thing".
 
@rubenvb Yeah, that's I meant. I reworded with an edit :)
 
@rubenvb All you need is to not use Show.
putStr works fine.
 
1:46 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Exactly. But it seemed... difficult to do "correctly"
I think it's very ... inappropriate to users of non-Latin letter languages to have the interpreter fail to write their language.
Anyone here use the Raspberry pi as MC?
 
@rubenvb It's not the interpreter.
It's show.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The interpreter calls show, doesn't it? When it prints stuff?
 
@rubenvb That's the only viable choice.
 
Python2 repr has the same issue.
 
Interpreter doesn't render anything.
 
1:49 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's a lie.
 
@rubenvb Why?
 
Heck, a C++ interpreter like Cling or CINT does a better job...
 
What.
 
Ah, although Python3 fixes it. Nice.
 
That's not really a bug.
 
1:51 PM
It's a bug as in: not what you expect.
It's not what I expect.
 
Because you don't understand the semantics of Show.
 
So, in Python3 repr allows non-ASCII characters, because they finally fixed Unicode handling. I guess Haskell just needs to fix show similarly.
 
@rubenvb Did you expect the quotes to be in the output?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I never wrote show in my code.
@R.MartinhoFernandes of course not, that's syntax.
 
@rubenvb Just like character escapes are.
 
1:52 PM
I never wrote \201 either.
I wrote toUpper 'é'
 
@rubenvb '\201' == toUpper 'é'
 
I expected É
 
If you want to output text, use the functions for outputting text: putStr.
 
Which is what a Russian person expects when her writes toUpper "hisnameinrussian"
I'm doing a friggin' tutorial that tells me to type my name. What if my name isn't in ASCII?
 
any Haskellers want to help me with something in the Haskell room?
 
1:53 PM
You guys are discussing besides the point.
 
@rubenvb then... the tutorial is broken?
 
@rubenvb What do I care if you are following a broken tutorial?
The intention is that whatever you throw at you can look at the output and know exactly what is there, regardless of encoding and regardless of fonts.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes @jalf The tutorial reveals a limitation of the Haskell Shell (Prelude or whatever you want to call it)
 
@rubenvb Oh the humanity!
 
@rubenvb The tutorial makes the wrong assumptions about that "shell".
 
1:54 PM
What would you like the interpreter to do if it's running in a terminal which, say, uses a font with only ASCII characters? Is that the Haskell interpreter's fault?
 
@StackedCrooked lol. Exactly my sentiment too. I don't give much more than one fuck, but I don't have a lot of fucks to give.
 
@jalf Exactly.
 
What shell.
 
@jalf no, but then you wouldn't have been able to type in your name anyways.
 
The output is such that you as a programmer can know what data is there.
 
1:55 PM
Prelude is not a shell.
GHCi is not a shell either.
 
And get fancy unicode unrepresentable squares or something.
 
@jalf What century is this?
 
@CatPlusPlus shell, interpreter, whatever.
 
@ecatmur What? Does it surprise you that text is fucked?
 
@rubenvb Right, and that's so fucking useful to try out code.
 
1:55 PM
@ecatmur A century when we still use stupid terminals.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well. Now you type a character, see it, and in the output, can't see it. That's asymmetrical, and by extension, stupid and certainly discomforting.
 
If you use e followed by the combining accent, in a string like "é", the interpreter won't spit "É" at you either, it will spit you two escaped characters.
@rubenvb You didn't output anything.
 
I'm so :psyduck: at this entire discussion.
 
Output is done with stuff like putStr.
 
1:56 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes GHCi output the result.
I can see the result.
 
The interpreter merely shows you the data.
 
It's a String isn't it?
 
It's the data that matters, not the fucking appearance.
 
It shows you a safest representation of the data.
 
or a list of Chars?
The data is the same regardless.
You're a bunch of dinosaurs.
 
1:57 PM
@rubenvb No, it's not discernible for humans.
 
Yes. That's why it chooses the safest one.
 
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
If you use e followed by the combining accent, in a string like "é", the interpreter won't spit "É" at you either, it will spit you two escaped characters.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes \201 is not discernable without looking up the friggin' unicode code point.
 
The intent is that you can see what the heck is in the data, regardless of font, or whatever was used to produce those particular glyphs.
 
ah, Unicode normalization.
 
1:58 PM
No, normalization is irrelevant.
 
That's the only case data vs representation matters.
 
If you want to see text, use the text printing facilities: putStr.
 
What.
 
@rubenvb no...
 
@rubenvb No, it's not.
 
1:58 PM
That's not something I learned in the tutorial.
 
@rubenvb As we told you, the tutorial is broken.
 
That's not something relevant to the language.
 
@CatPlusPlus never said that, but there's only one implementation worth mentioning, and it has limitations, IMHO.
 

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