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10:00 PM
I wouldn't want to look bad. snicker
 
Jim, minecraftanonymous.com was originally written using it. Before it got moved to ror
 
@CatPlusPlus Actual English person volunteering for duty.
 
@Drise Ah ok... it looks promising...
 
Why don't you use ror?
 
let me rephrase that
le flump
 
10:01 PM
@Drise I suppose I could.... haven't heard of it either.. :-)
 
@DeadMG Why does youtube put 'Nerd alert - ...', 'Acne is not a joke', 'Nerds vs. Hotties' etc in the related vids... Just in time to close that tab :)
 
@DeadMG "Actual English person (...)" seconds later "le flump"
 
@sehe Dunno about the others, but Husky is a member of Nerd Alert.
 
Jim, Ruby on Rails.
 
Ell
10:02 PM
wooo ruby yeah wooo
 
Also, do you realise the significance of me writing a blog post.
 
@CatPlusPlus You're joining in on that?
 
> The cost of rewriting working software is always much bigger than the cost of
 
10:03 PM
Yesssss.
 
I am surprised.
 
Shit just got real.
Actually, no scratch that: shit just got complex.
 
@CatPlusPlus Now, read it aloud on mumble !
Complexity, the hallmark of real shit
 
What the fuck is he using for comments.
I want to tell him I make fun of him.
 
10:05 PM
> So, either you can't read, or you are deliberately misrepresenting this to white knight PHP.
all I came up with
 
Thanks.
 
but on a logical level, you might want to point out that non-technical people learning PHP and making websites is partly why PHP is so fucking insecure
 
Xeo
Playing a game were there's a cooking contest with tasty stuff isn't the greatest idea when you're hungry... ugh.
 
and it's really actually not a good thing at all
 
@Xeo ?! what game has that. Sounds... enthralling
 
10:08 PM
also, you missed an opportunity to sarcastically congratulate them on Git.
"Gz: you discovered source control!"
 
Xeo
@sehe It's just part of the story
 
@Xeo Enchanting then
 
@CatPlusPlus You know, I'm laughing. At you. For falling for it.
 
Eh, even if that one is a troll, there's 100 more who do that unironically.
 
Anyway, "yes, PHP supports getting an array item from any expression" was the funniest of all.
Does C++11 support that?
 
10:12 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes As long as it isn't a temporary array (rvalue) reference... (that's more on instantiating them, but close enough)
Yeah, and I know about Alias<> (which in fact is the sole reason I remember this 'use case')
I must admit, too, I'd like to write for(auto s: std::string[]{"a","b","d"}) { /*...*/ } in C++. C# got that one right
 
for(auto s: {"a"_s,"b"_s,"d"_s})
 
@Drise Oh, I think I'd rather learn Python over Ruby...
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes What exactly did they mean with that?
 
@Xeo For years on end, you couldn't just tack [0] on some expressions that returned an array to access its elements.
Now you can.
Yay.
 
I'm depressed now. Y'all have a way of making me feel like a fool.
 
Xeo
10:18 PM
oh wow
 
Like foo()[0].
$foo[0]() was fine, though.
 
Xeo
wtf
 
No, not WTF, PHP.
 
Synonyms.
Ooh, maybe we could synonym to .
 
Xeo
using php = wtf;
 
10:19 PM
Two different levels on the same scale.
PHP is WTWTF (Worse than worse than failure)
 
@CatPlusPlus Already been suggested, rejected
 
Aw.
SO is terrible.
 
What else is new
> Believing that something that's used must be good
Well, cocaine is good stuff
 
10:27 PM
Sounds like they are trying to surpass Microsoft with overengineered backwards compatibility hacks
(WinSxS? Manifests? .local? Umpteen copies of a gazillion versions of msvcrt/mfc?)
 
I just noticed. Cat studies at WUT.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Otherwise, the goal: making a clean transition to c++11 (wholesale) possible, is of course great news
 
The best part of this post is that vim is squiggling every occurrence of "PHP".
BAD WORD, BAD WORD.
 
Erm, why?
Oh, spellcheck.
I don't use that thing.
 
Who needs spillchucks. Only serves to (a) perturb context menus (b) slow things down
 
10:31 PM
Context menus?
 
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, my browser has spillchuck and it annoys the crap out of me by interfering with keyboard accessibility
 
@BenVoigt can you show another context it applies to? Here's an example exploiting the in-class initialization dilemma: template<size_t> struct Size {}; struct A { auto size = Size<sizeof(A)>(); };. — Johannes Schaub - litb 9 mins ago
 
I like them, they catch obvious mistakes. Unless I press Enter before noticing.
Or misspell into a correct word.
But still.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Ok, having scanned all of the article, I'm going to adjust my verdict: it sounds like they're going to have better quality control. I'm not sure about the 'overengineering' bells that rang, but if they pull it of, it will be goodness
 
ohhhh hhhhh
 
10:33 PM
He came
@CatPlusPlus has probably far less quirks than PHP -> 'has probably far fewer quirks than PHP' ?
 
Maybe.
I'll edit it some day.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Reply to :4489020 instead
@CatPlusPlus Garfield, is that you?
 
Duh, he's a cat.
 
Garfield is a dawg?
 
10:37 PM
Now I have to figure out how to tell the guy I'm making fun of, that I'm making fun of him.
 
@CatPlusPlus Link on his blog?
 
@CatPlusPlus also, what a nice finish on the blog engine:
> r7:ec27c85f16e7 (2012-07-12 00:25 +0200): "Oh look, a post. How did this get here."
 
It's not a blog engine, it's a generated static page.
 
@CatPlusPlus Let me handle that
 
TECHNOLOGY.
 
10:37 PM
lol
> Thanks to DeadMG for review and Robot for laughing at me. <3
 
Coincidentally, the same one Robot uses, but I've used it before it was cool.
 
@sehe I've been saying it for years, and every time I see something like this, I become more convinced that it's true: we've grown beyond the capabilities of our current file systems, and need to replace them with something capable of storing more of the information we care about.
 

PHP

Support group for those afflicted with PHP. Don't ask to ask, ...
 
Ell
is storing binary data in a database inherently a bad idea?
 
10:39 PM
He's there?
I don't even know.
I'm scared to go behind enemy line.
 
Ell
and by binary I mean bitmaps, pictures, images.
 
Yes. No. Pick your side, grab a rifle, and start shooting the others.
 
@Ell Inherently, no. But it rarely makes sense.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes What, my rude comment didn't get mention? And my sincere proofreading feedback? /cc @CatPlusPlus
 
Creating a series of Bitmaps in a GC languaged like C++/CLI in fast series, could that cause a behaviour similar to a memory leak, if the GC decides not to kick in often enough to clean up no longer used Bitmaps?
 
10:40 PM
@sehe :P
 
@TonyTheLion It can/will certainly increase memory consumption, if that's what you mean. But that'll be temporary..
 
@TonyTheLion Why would it?
Any time you allocate something new and there's not enough memory, GC kicks in.
Unless...
 
@sehe I'm editing.
 
@CatPlusPlus change link to SO profile plix
 
This Bitmap thing is a Java class with a finalizer.
 
10:42 PM
@JerryCoffin Although, for this, the storage isn't the thing. The linking is the thing. So you'd need to have a nextgen dynamic linker/loader thing, not a nextgen filesystem thing for this
 
In that case, yes, you can create objects faster than the GC can clean them up.
Somehow they fucked that up.
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes while(1); in the finalizer?
 
@CatPlusPlus Phew. Also, perhaps mention I helped spread the news? - no don't :)
 
@Xeo Nope, can be empty.
 
Xeo
wat.
 
10:43 PM
@sehe The two go together. The problem right now is that it's essentially impossible to write the linker/loader, because the FS doesn't provide a way to store the information it would really need.
 
@Xeo It's the JVM that fucks up, not malicious code.
 
Xeo
wow.
how did they manage to do that?
 
The way they designed finalizers.
A finalizer is an extra object.
Total clean up of an object with a finalizer takes two collections.
 
@JerryCoffin Don't agree. The fileformats (COFF/PE) are practically special purpose FS-es there. I think it would be unproductive to make specialized tools require extensive 'general information retrieval' services from the FS.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Given that the stated goal of the JVM was to be immune to malicious code (and they frequently still claim it actually is), you're clearly correct.
 
10:45 PM
@sehe I feel like you're the C++-PHP-bridge :)
 
@JerryCoffin Last times I saw that happen were Registry and ADSI. All it did was lock the implementation of a service to the information provider, with no competition. (In this case, the OS/loader would be tied to a particular 'super-FS')
@NikiC It was with that responsibility I felt I had to inform you
 
in PHP, 2 mins ago, by markus-tharkun
@sehe this guy is mocking the wrong person... I guess he should have read up on fabpot before doing that ... snicker
 
@sehe What? You're helping the enemy?
 
So, it appears to be a troll.
 
Traitor!
We should reconsider your ownership status.
 
10:46 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Whoa. I'd seriously get those eyes checked
 
Hahaha, it's the author of ENTERPRISEY PHP FRAMEWORK.
This is gold.
 
user1174868
I really wish there was a way to look up what errors in compilers mean
 
@sehe Impossible was probably the wrong word. The problem (as I see it) is that you're sort of correct -- each executable format has become nearly a file system in itself (and sometimes more than one, such as COM streams inside of PE files). However, the strike me as (largely) a collection of special-purpose hacks held together with chewing gum and bailing wire. A lot more progress could be made a lot more quickly by building a general-purpose mechanism with a relatively simple interface.
 
10 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Now I have to figure out how to tell the guy I'm making fun of, that I'm making fun of him.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't know, maybe it's broken
 
10:47 PM
^ that was helping
 
@sehe Hey, don't say that. I was having trouble reading the telly on the restaurant at dinner. The thought of deteriorated sight scares the hell out of me.
 
@CatPlusPlus Oh, so it's natural for him to defend PHP, it pays his bills.
 
Ell
compiler errors usually mean what they are
 
@EtiennedeMartel It's so adorable.
 
Ell
apart from when templates are involved, when they mean nothing
(joking, obvs)
 
user1174868
10:48 PM
procedure application: expected procedure, given: 1; arguments were: #<procedure:+> 1
 
user1174868
that doesn't even sound like an error
 
so we're all massively collaborating on @CatPlusPlus PHP rant?
 
@sehe In that case your efforts are futile ;) None of use poor souls in the PHP chatrooms knowns fabien in person ;)
 
@TonyTheLion My collaboration consisted of laughing.
 
user1174868
I think I hate programming
 
user1174868
10:49 PM
I am not made to do this
 
We'll let you in on a secret. No one is.
 
@JerryCoffin The funny thing is, those COM 'streams' (the tlb resources, of which there may be many) are actually all dispersed into TLB/CLASS/COCLASS/ITF entries in the infamous Registry 'database' (everything linked by Guids and ProgIds only) - but that's a side-road
@NikiC I would still wager word will get out faster than from within the C++ lounge
 
Apparently I'm wrong, because he knows PHP or something.
 
user1174868
yeah but I can't program anything, I have spent a week on this problem and I still can't get it, even with a lot of help
 
Because he wrote the most overblown PHP framework of all.
Or something.
 
10:51 PM
@sehe Not really. @CatPlusPlus isn't high profile enough (I think) for this to gain any traction ;)
 
Awww. :(
 
@RMartinhoFernandes What courses do you have left?
 
@CatPlusPlus That's not how I meant it :(
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I am.
@Jordan As far as I can tell, your lecturer's specification of the desired program is quite deficient.
 
@sehe Oh, no argument that the registry is a mess (and should have, IMO, been written as a special-purpose file system instead of using a new, different, and even clumsier API to do the same things -- create a tree and read/write bits of data).
 
Ell
10:53 PM
what is linq? is it equivalent to ruby's array.select{¦item¦ item.name == "John"} ?
 
It's awesomeness distilled.
 
user1174868
@deadMG it is scheme, isn't it suppose to be deficient?
 
@ManofOneWay Rough translation of the actual names: Cost Analysis, Numerical Methods, Communications by Computer, Introduction to Dynamic Systems.
 
@JerryCoffin Ok, but it seems funny to 'encumber' a filesystem with that. And on another note, Windows allready uses all possible engineering hacks in that area. NTFS alternate filestreams can contain info about security status of executables, windows-compatibilty flags for it. The WinSxS encodes all kind of binary compatibility meta information in the form of policy files. I'm too tired to think of more now but i think I've seen more
 
@CatPlusPlus good PHP rant you wrote :)
funny as well
 
10:55 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes And why haven't you completed them? You're a genius, just like the puppy
 
I'm not sure if that's a compliment. :P
 
@JerryCoffin Anyways, would POSIX extended attributes (xattrs) not fit the bill already? (I still think that symbol-level versioning should be kept inside a library archive file)
@RMartinhoFernandes lulz
 
@sehe "all possible engineering hacks"? Really? Although I never gamble, I'd almost be willing to bet that by, say, Windows 12, they'll have figured out at least one more...
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, it is. The puppy hasn't completed his either and I am equally surprised by that.
 
@ManofOneWay My lecturers define "knowledge" as "Did you memorize random fact XYZ about thing ABC?".
 
10:57 PM
@ManofOneWay Well, mostly because, somewhat like the puppy, I don't a give a damn about it :S I'm just not as whiny as him :P I went to college to learn and I never cared about exams and grades and all that. To the point of just not showing up on exams.
 
@JerryCoffin Many many. I mean, Windows are continuously pursuing all possible routes at once. That's how they roll. I didn't mean 'all possible' as describing a stationary (terminal) state, but rather a description of their continuous modus operandi
 
I never really failed an exam on any of those classes, I just never showed up.
Yes, I'm stupid.
 
@sehe Oh, okay. I have to admit that I was a little surprised at (how I interpreted) what you said.
 
in PHP, 3 mins ago, by markus-tharkun
@CatPlusPlus yep, right, show me what you've written in PHP and I'll tell you if you have any right to bash the language
Lol.
 
@JerryCoffin The wording was unclear. I'm rambling :)
@CatPlusPlus bash the language? I think bash is superior!
(kidding @NikiC: I hate bash for scripting)
 

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