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Ell
12:00 AM
farmers use sickles to kill foxes? messy :L
 
@Ell Farmers don't need to kill foxes.
 
How about guns for protection and sport?
 
Ell
well emus or bears or whatever it is that eats the crops
 
Or how about because we have the fucking 2nd Amendment?
 
@JimNorton Do you really need it to be a right if you have a tyrannical government?
If you have a tyrannical government you'll bear arms anyway.
 
user1174868
12:01 AM
does quotient mean something special in programming, seperate from what it means in amth?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes They'd have been taken away... where would we get them?
 
Ell
guns for protection? from what?
 
@Ell Protection from all the other people wielding guns.
 
@Ell People committing crimes, trying to harm others...
 
12:02 AM
@Jordan nope, same thing
 
@RMartinhoFernandes There is a difference between a law abiding citizen with a gun and a criminal with one.
 
Ell
if they didn't allow guns then guns would he significantly more difficult to acquire thus gun crime would be decreased
 
@RMartinhoFernandes The primary point of arming the people is to keep the government from becoming tyrannical in the first place.
 
I'd like to be able to protect myself against the criminal
@Ell WRONG! Then only the criminals would have them.
 
@JimNorton Right, "all the other people wielding guns" includes criminals.
 
Ell
12:03 AM
it is not wrong, just compare UK to Us gun crime
 
@Jordan I took it you meant to answer this question:
 
Is that a fair comparison?
 
1 hour ago, by Jordan
I am suppose to find an n such that bn > a, where a > 1 and all positive integers.
I am suppose to use recursion and the expt function but other than that I have no idea how to do it like that. I have tried many, many times and I can't get it. Here is some sample code I tried.
[1] http://ideone.com/07cFi
 
@Ell I mean you're not considering any other factors at all.
 
(define (find-n a b)
  (define (do-find a b n)
    (if (> (* b n) a) n (do-find a b (+ 1 n))))
  (do-find a b 0))
 
12:04 AM
@Ell Not a chance. Quite literally tons of illegal drugs (for one example) are imported on a regular and ongoing basis, but you somehow believe a law against guns is going to work dramatically better?
 
Only this one.
And yeah, what Jerry said. Laws are not enforced by a divine all-powerful entity.
 
@Jordan ^ that should. find-n shims do-find if you will
 
user1174868
@sehe I wrote it wrong, it is the smallest n such that b^n > a
 
Ell
@jerrycoffin of course no law is 100% effective, but it at least has some effect. in the us there are shops where you can buy firearms, correct? where would you start looking in the UK?
 
@Ell There's also literally hundreds of other differences between the two.
 
user1174868
12:06 AM
@sehe I think I can get an answer to it though, I actually found a website with some useful scheme examples
 
@Ell Correct, and you can actually take the gun home after a background check has been performed.
 
@Jordan since you use racket, likely raco docs, drracket + F1 would give you 'heaven' in terms of code samples
 
user1174868
@sehe what is that?
 
user1174868
and yes I do use racket
 
@Jordan What is what? Please respond to individual messages using the 'post as reply to this message' arrow (hover message on the right end)
 
12:07 AM
How about the gun crime rate in Sweden where every male of a certain age is REQUIRED to own a gun?
 
@Ell Yes, it has some effect -- but the effect is often the reverse of what's intended. Just for example, when I was underage, it was much easier to get illegal drugs than to get alcohol. So far, with billions spent on drug enforcement, the only effect seems to have been to raise prices.
 
@JimNorton Or Switzerland.
 
@sehe Power, not multiplication.
 
Ell
you know what to prevent more embarrassment I'm going to go ahead and say that I am too uninformed on the subject and my naiive mind maybe has too much trust in the law and that I am wrong
 
12:08 AM
@Jordan my code snippet does what you describe, it 'finds the smallest n' such that b*n > a
 
Ell
also that Sweden thing it pretty kewl
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh, darn that means it got lost in chat markdown?
 
I mind read it from the first post.
The hint was the mention of expt.
@Ell FTR, yes guns are bad. But no, getting rid of guns does not get you rid of guns.
 
user1174868
@sehe What is drracket + F1?
 
alright, now I'm running our spanish grammar engine through ~7294 test sentances. I feel more confident in our accuracy.
 
12:10 AM
It is Sweden that requires adult males to own firearms correct?
 
I find that surprising.
 
@JimNorton Swiss
 
@JimNorton I'm not sure, but I do know Switzerland does.
 
@JerryCoffin Ok maybe it's Switzerland and not Sweden... but I know Sweden has little gun crime, and a high percentage of guns per capita.
 
@Jordan It is when you launch the GUI ('ide') and press the F1 key, which has been the 'Help' key for about 3 decades
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh well, in that case: /cc @Jordan
 
12:12 AM
Yeah, it's the same thingy.
 
@sehe Egads... gross
 
@JimNorton Hey, go easy on me. I never been to college (well, not for significant amounts of time and I never got to do any lispy business there)
 
@sehe Oh no, I mean the language is gross... not your code. :-)
 
@JimNorton Well it is gross. I use only the simplest construct because I know nothing about it
 
@JimNorton That doesn't surprise me. Switzerland has essentially 100% gun ownership, and exceptionally low crime rates -- and most of the little gun-related crime that does happen is done by tourists and such.
 
12:14 AM
static_assert(-sizeof(char) < 0, "Right?");
 
Ell
that's pretty embarrassing for the country who send the toruost
meh cha to correct phone spellings
 
well time to run along... nice chatting with you all again...
 
@JimNorton Likewise. Later.
 
@JimNorton Anyways, I fixed the pow function now: /cc @Jordan
(define (pow m e)
  (define (do-pow accum m e) (if (= 0 e) accum (do-pow (* m accum) m (- e 1))))
  (do-pow 1 m e))

(define (find-n a b)
  (define (do-find a b n) (if (> (pow b n) a) n (do-find a b (+ 1 n))))
  (do-find a b 0))

(find-n 10000 7)
 
@sehe Erm there's expt.
 
12:18 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Who cares :)
 
@Ell That's what a preliminary wikipedia search turns up.
@TonyTheLion Quite true occasionally.
 
You lie on the Internet?
"Liar!" is a science fiction short story by American writer Isaac Asimov. It first appeared in the May 1941 issue of Astounding Science Fiction and was reprinted in the collections I, Robot (1950) and The Complete Robot (1982). It was Asimov's third published positronic robot story. Although the word "robot" was introduced to the public by Czech writer Karel Čapek in his 1920 play R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots), Asimov's story "Liar!" contains the first recorded use of the word "robotics" according to the Oxford English Dictionary. In 1969 "Liar" was adapted into an episode of the...
 
@RMartinhoFernandes A lying lion?
 
12:24 AM
lol
 
12:42 AM
does this actually get used?
 
what?
 
@enderland Of course. But probably not what you think for.
 
holy cow this site has a loud notificaiton LOL
 
you can lower your own volume :)
 
@sehe He is asking if this chat gets used.
 
12:44 AM
@Drise You don't really know. I'm guessing the same thing
 
yah, and thanks @sehe
 
@enderland Only a few thousand messages per day... or less on a slow day
 
hmm that seems quite sufficient :P
 
@sehe Only a few? Really?
 
@Drise In this room
 
Yeah. What do you need to look at stats for <big-grin/>
 
/me is testing
aww
 
@enderland I know right!?
 

Sandbox

Where you can play with regular chat features (except flagging...
 
:P
woops
 
12:47 AM
Also, read the newbie-hints as mentioned on the starboard. Only 17 stars
 
I somewhat get the imrpession from reading up that this doesn't exactly get used for C++ questions :P
 
Absolutely. The main site is for questions Stack Overflow
 
@sehe Are you sure about that?
 
user1174868
@sehe they don't teach f1 in intro courses
 
@Drise Yes. I'm at peace with the changing universe
 
12:49 AM
@sehe I believe your figures are incorrect.
 
@Jordan you don't say. Well, I didn't make all that stuff up, it was what the program told me, so I just followed directions
@Drise Figures are one symptom of a changing universe. Mine represents a point-in-time
 
Morning, procrastinators!
 
@DomagojPandža You get up real early
 
It's 1:50.
 
2:51h here
 
12:51 AM
@sehe Just to go on record, I am the asshole responsible for adding a star.
 
2:51 here, last time I slept was 36 hours ago.
 
@Drise see, even the robot is tardy now
@Drise I wouldn't have guessed. Meh
 
@sehe Does that mean I'm on the TARDIS?
2
 
@DomagojPandža On that note, let me set the good example. We have two kids with a fever in the house. Experience tells me I should get some sleep or I will suffer the same fate. Ah well
@RMartinhoFernandes No. why?
 
It was a pun.
A bad one, it seems :(
 
12:52 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes I liked it.
 
The other night I was a little bit more outspoken with the same joke and I got flagged for it :)
 
I would like to sleep
but the whole sickness thing
 
@sehe Woah.
That's how awesome I am.
 
plus for some reason it's fucking hot here
 
12:53 AM
2 days ago, by sehe
You are retarded
Literally
 
@DeadMG It's called "summer".
Also, if this typechecks... something. I'll be happy.
It doesn't.
:(
 
Anyways, night owl
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Not here in the UK.
 
Holy popsicles, it does!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Popsicles a fruit?
 
12:55 AM
Erm. You can have fruit-flavoured popsicles :P
 
Apr 12 at 14:05, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@sehe Ah. I like to use "holy <insert fruit name (plural) here>"
:)
Night
 
Good night.
 
Peace @sehe
 
Great, now all I need to get the results to be correct.
Dammit, I'm incrementing an end iterator.
 
Xeo
1:02 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes What were you trying to do again?
 
Argh, iterators Y U SO DAMN ANNOYING TO IMPLEMENT.
@Xeo It's my turn to be messing around with Unicode. AFAICT, there's always a lounger doing it, this season it's me.
 
Xeo
heh
I hope somebody here ever finishes with his turn, so I can use a good implementation when I need one :P
 
It's nice to see Jeff participating in a not so popular SE.
4
A: Is it necessary to 'burn in' or 'break in' a new car?

Jeff AtwoodI found an excellent article on breaking in a new car at Popular Mechanics. The ritual of breaking in a new car is part of the body of knowledge we refer to as conventional wisdom. It’s not necessarily wise, and the technology of building a modern automobile has evolved to the point where a ...

 
Why wouldn't he?
 
1:04 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes I dunno.
 
I think I'll need a model B iterator.
 
I love these titles:
0
Q: Applications are expected to have a root view controller at the end of application launch HELP PLEASE

user1350228My app was launching fine earlier today and now im getting this error "Applications are expected to have a root view controller at the end of application launch" Any help would be appreciated. Ive looked at other threads saying to change my code, but i never changed any code to get to this poin...

HELP PLEASE
 
so tempting to add "Because I'm incompetent" to the end
 
@Xeo I plan to finish something decent out of this. We'll see how well that matches with reality.
 
Xeo
You should've highlighted "plan"
 
1:10 AM
I thought I'd spend this evening in a terminal working with a c++-project of mine, instead I got home 20 minutes ago (it's 3:10 am currently), and all I've done is listening to some old songs of mine..
productive, very.
 
@Xeo I have well-defined goals, I have read the standard (it's actually quite readable cover-to-cover, unlike some other standard we know of...), and I finally decided on an interface I'm happy with after two weeks of playing around. Now all I need is time. And a coffee substitute.
 
Well, I've been raping the developer preview page for the last hour, revamped it for the 4th time.
Damn ideas.
 
Still need to connect it to the assignment administration and style that crap.
And linkies and stuff.
 
Ell
of course you can't forget the linkies
 
1:17 AM
The crap needs to be integrated with the animation styling, crossing over between various parts etc. Way too lazy and sleep deprived to actually do it tonight. :$
 
Ell
is it php?
also what framework? or none ?
 
Yup, PHP. Needed to get something going quickly, so I took the ugly path. We just need an exchange site. And no framework, I prefer to write my own stuff. It's a curse, really.
 
OMG..
You're evil.
 
Ell
I have been meaning to learn php but don't really know how the development cycle goes
will you be releasing the website sources? or do people not do that with websites?
I am interested in looking at it
 
I don't really know if there is anything to learn. If you've got the programming logic in your head, it is pretty straightforward. But prepare it to suffer because PHP does some very stupid things.
I'll put it up in a separate repo once it's up so Cat Plus Plus can hack into some of his own stuff.
 
1:24 AM
I need a reality check.
Does this look like it has an obvious solution? ideone.com/zIpP3
 
Ell
well mvc is all the rage but I don't understand what should be separated where and stuff. putting mvc aside it would just generally help me to see a website
 
IOW, do I need sleep?
 
We should all get some sleep. Also, it scares me that I can read that code easily. What has C++ done to me? Also, so ugly.
But after PHP, everything is pretty.
 
Ell
I actually just despise the effort it is looking up all the function names
IIRC they are very inconsistent
 
@DomagojPandža No ideas? :( I think I'll post an SO question. I find it weird that boost doesn't have an adaptor for anything similar.
 
Ell
1:30 AM
yeah I know i should
I can feel myself getting into a bad state
 
Templated stuff taking more templated stuff. I need sleep. My eyes are red. :(
 
Ell
I can only understand basic templates
the stuff you do looks massively complex
 
Don't worry about it, Ell. Such complexity rarely occurs. Templates were designed to simplify things, mostly that means just a few very clear arguments going in, which modulate the baseline code without the need to write duplicate crap.
You'll run into such complexity only while developing some hardcore libraries.
 
I'm definitely a library writer. I lose all interest when it's time to make an user interface.
 
1:41 AM
Providing functionality feels better than taking it. :D
Templates have that specific charm to them. At the same time, they're awesome and awful.
Can't really pick a side.
 
Awesome. My side is awesome.
 
Ell
I like templates too, they seek magical
I love how much you can do at compile time
 
ah, TMP magic
 
Ell
*seem
I think I just love metaprogramming, template or otherwise
I like ruby for that
 
What kind of meta programming does one do in Ruby?
 
Ell
1:47 AM
well dynamic I suppose its called
adding methods/creating classes at runtime and stuff
...that's metaprogramming right?
it is so easy to make a DSL in ruby its just ace
 
@Ell Yeah, but it's quite different from what you do in C++.
 
Ell
it is very different
 
That's why I asked.
 
Ell
ruby is so easy
but all languages are easy to me - at least I know them well enough to be able to produce at least something, yet I can't
 
But dynamic :( I'm a static typing kind of guy.
 
Ell
1:51 AM
that I still have not been able to overcome. I start everything over and over
 
Yup, static is lovely.
Assert those bitches at compile time, adapt and execute.
 
Ell
yeah i like dynamic when I'm doing static and static when I'm doing dynamic :L
although I prefer explicit to implicit type conversions
in both static and dynamic
but I get confused to what strong/weak typing is
 
I prefer to leave as little guess work as possible.
 
Ell
yeah
but c++ is weakly typed isn't it?
 
Around fundamental types, yes.
 
1:58 AM
Yup, it can do a fair amount of guess work.
But if you do not provide facilities for that "guess work" later on for user-defined stuff, well, it becomes more a strong willed language. :P
 
Shameless plug
0
Q: How can I write an iterator wrapper that combines groups of sequential values from the underlying iterator?

R. Martinho FernandesConsider the following sequence: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 I have input iterators for that sequence. I want to wrap those iterators on iterators that produce the following sequence instead: (1,2), (3,4), (5,6), (7,8), (9,10) If it's not clear, this sequence is a sequence of consecutive ...

Now, I'm going to sleep and hopefully I'll have an answer ready when I wake up :)
 
I'm going to feel bad when I wake up with the answer
and be depressed all day because I'm an idiot
 
Ell
you aren't an idiot in any which way
so don't be depressed, it sucks :L
 
When I'm sleep deprived, I am pretty much useless. I envy people who can go for +36 hours.
My top is 35 hours of functioning.
And then I need almost an entire day of sleep.
 
@DomagojPandža It sucks.
I used to do that. It fucks you up.
 
Xeo
2:09 AM
What was my top again? 68hours or so?
 
@Xeo Holy crap.
 
Xeo
I said it some time ago in here, can't exactly remember
 
May 30 at 22:41, by Xeo
Hour 56: Power is slowly leaving my body, deep fatigue sets in
Can't find better.
 
Ell
68? Jesus Mary mother 'o God
 
Wait.
May 31 at 16:07, by Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes: Experiment cancelled after 64h (w/ 2h powernap at 48h), I got careless and was suddenly asleep. :(
 
Xeo
2:15 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah, thanks, I knew I kept a "diary-like" log in here with hours marked, but I searched for "hours"
 
Xeo
And the robot fulfills his job again, thanks
 
And now James posted a comment with a solution for my problem. Fuck. I wanted to sleep, not try it out.
I want control of my body back! :S
 
Xeo
Btw, I wonder why you even thought you could make a range iterator without knowing the proper end iterator
 
Ell
sleep deprivation ;)
boosteese? :L
I like women like I like my code: boosty
 
2:25 AM
@Xeo I had a tiring day and should be asleep now because tomorrow won't be less tiring.
But the templates were calling :(
 
Xeo
2:52 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes So, is it working out?
 
Best sleep it out.
Then go back to it.
 
what was that GPU demo thing a few months ago with thousands of imps pathing and gathering materials? I think it was AMD, but google video search is failing me
namely "amd gpu thousands kobold gathering" gets me 16 pages of the same video on androidappapk.com
 
@DomagojPandža And what? Give up? Never.
 
3:12 AM
Oh FFS.
I really need to think this through. I got the iterator working, but the rest doesn't play nice.
So, good night now, for real :)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I can't see why you don't just overload >> and push it in? In this case, that seems like the natural sequqnce,.
 
Because I need iterators to work on the rest of the API.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes No middle ground for the data?
 
@CaptainGiraffe Well, maybe. Like I said, I need to rethink some parts. And I can't do so now :)
Good night.
 
3:26 AM
does anyone know if when you rename your python.exe file, it messes with any of the modules? or does it not make a difference?
(dont google it or anything, im just wondering if anyone knows off the top of thier head :) )
 
If somebody asks a question about c++ say strings, Is it ok answering it from MFC point of view say (CString)? Or should I stick to std::string
 
@RageshChakkadath You will most certainly get downvoted if you answer with a non-standard solution.
Unless it's Boost.
 
im yet to know what Boost is, but at my point in c++, it doesnt really matter to me o.o;
 
@RageshChakkadath I wouldn't use MFC in the reply unless something at least suggests that they're using MFC (e.g., stated directly, tagged, or other code includes something like CWnd, CDC, etc.)
 
@Mysticial Have experienced that :) @JerryCoffin Ok. Apart from being a non-standard way, CString works the same way as std::string rt?
 
3:45 AM
@RageshChakkadath Some parts do, others don't -- but there's quite a bit more "don't" than "do".
 
@JerryCoffin My concern is memory management. I was under the impression that CString uses C style null terminated char* buffer internally which got me down voted :D
 
0
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torresBought a cable (sata to usb). took out the hard drive from laptop. connect the hd with the cable with my desktop pc (which has 2 high speed good hard drive. each 2 tb). I ran a copy-item from powershell. but started to get "access denied" on m:\users directory. What is the best way to recover u...

Migrate votes
 
@RageshChakkadath If memory serves, in this respect it actually is a bit like most implementations of std::string -- the buffer isn't kept NUL-terminated at all times, but it ensures that it's NUL-terminated when/if you access it as a string (.c_str() with std::string, and operator char const * with CString).
@Mysticial Done and gone.
 
gah i need something to work on >.>
 
Xeo
4:01 AM
@JerryCoffin It's guaranteed in C++11, though
 
zomg c++ network programming is painful >.>
 
@Xeo Contiguity is now guaranteed, but I'm not at all sure zero-termination is until/unless you use .c_str().
 
Xeo
@ITNinja Boost.Asio
 
@Xeo thats what im looking at o.o;
 
@ITNinja C network programming is painful, and C++ does little or nothing to fix the worst parts.
 
Xeo
4:07 AM
@JerryCoffin .c_str() is the same as .data(), which is null-terminated and IIRC they're not allowed to allocate or something like that
11
Q: Will std::string always be null-terminated in C++0x?

links77In a 2008 post on his site, Herb Sutter states the following: There is an active proposal to tighten this up further in C++0x and require null-termination and possibly ban copy-on-write implementations, for concurrency-related reasons. Here’s the paper: http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/...

 
@JerryCoffin @Xeo So is it right to say "In C++, strings are stored as character arrays terminated by null character" This is what earned me a down vote :|
 
Xeo
@RageshChakkadath Only if stored in a std::string, a char arr[] will not necesserily be null-terminated
 
@Xeo It's marked noexcept, so no it generally can't do an allocation -- but that doesn't mean that when you haven't called data()/c_str() the buffer is zero-terminated. Just for example, the implementation can always leave space for a zero-terminator, even if that's not present, and only add the zero terminator when/if you call data() or c_str() (and possibly overwrite it when/if the string is modified).
 
Xeo
And for whatever reason would any implementation do that? Wouldn't you need either a check if it's already NUL or always do buf[size()] = '\0' on a call?
 
@Xeo You'd only do the buf[size()] = '\0'; in c_str()/data(). As for why not do it, that's pretty simple: because maintaining that at all times is often a pointless waste of time.
 
4:20 AM
@Xeo the question was "how strings are stored in c++" Someone down voted my answer it saying that's stack-based C string, not a std::string. [deleted the answer instantly :D]
 
4:53 AM
Well, I think I'm going to go get some rest. Later all.
 
5:20 AM
Morning gents
@JerryCoffin Evening gent
 
 
2 hours later…
user1182183
7:03 AM
anyone know if I have a struct and create a vector of it, and then if I call pop_back() or pop, will the destructor be called? and If I use delete statements in the destructor will the memory be freed?
 
@GamErix A vector behaves correctly, yes.
 
user1182183
ah k thanks
 
user1182183
cuz I'm analyzing why my plugin is so memory hungry. seems there are memory leaks
 
user1182183
btw if the struct is only a int a;, then it will be freed when pop_back is called?
 
7:27 AM
gam, yep
if your struct does not use 'new', you won't likely need to define a destructor, and when a destructor is called all memory for your object will be free'd.
 
morning all
 
yellow
 
morning evening
 
morning
 
morning Happy Birthday
 
7:35 AM
@Mysticial Liar :p
 
hey... Two of Jon Skeet's old answers got flagged as "Not an Answer".
 
@GamErix of course it will, even if you don't define one, a default one will be called, ie one that that will not 'delete' objects you are pointing to via pointers (unless you are using smart pointers)
 
I was going through the flag queue and was like WTF?
 
"I hear Internet Explorer 10 is going to allow you to download and install firefox up to three times faster." Priceless.
 

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