« first day (634 days earlier)      last day (4306 days later) » 

2:00 PM
@KonradRudolph They seem to fit very well together. Are they friends?
 
@KonradRudolph Hmm, we still don't get to properly see the right side of your face. Clever.
 
@KonradRudolph but not your body?
 
@rubenvb
What exactly did I do wrong then? I did read it
 
2:01 PM
@Sidar Well, just don't expect an answer.
 
@Sidar this
 
Well I tried looking for answers, I hoped I could get a simple yes or no
 
@Sidar Oh oh, it's never that simple with C++.
 
@Sidar erm, have yes
 
Ell
@Sidar it would copy
 
2:03 PM
@Ell thanks
 
As for your question, standard containers always create copies (well, almost; they can also move stuff in C++11). A container does not store pointers unless it's a container of pointers (i.e. std::vector<T *>).
 
@Sidar Copies.
 
lol first its like "don't expect answers" and then I get 5 of em
I've already used unordered_map, but it always seem to confuse me. Kinda makes me paranoid
 
You were lucky.
 
The rule to this chat is if you just show up and shoot a question, you shouldn't expect an answer
 
2:04 PM
@Sidar we didn't say you wouldn't get one, just don't expect one
 
That doesn't mean you won't get one, or twelve, just don't expect it.
 
Ow I wasn't, last time I was here, I ended up with no answers =P
 
I'm answering the next random question from someone that just barged in with "bananas".
4
 
Pin that
Just so we can point them to it, whoever they are
 
Mark those words.
 
2:06 PM
Strangely enough unordered_map seems to have more functions, although my IDE isn
't showing them
 
Intellisense sucks sometimes.
 
C++ seems to kick me in the balls...blergh
2
 
@Cicada lol, sometimes.
 
Well everything else seems to be in order
 
Ell
Wait a second. Can you move into a value type?
 
2:08 PM
the lounge title sucks
 
What else would you move into?
 
hihi
 
@Ell reference types don't exactly exist in C++
 
@DeadMG Is that a double greeting, or giggling?
 
@CheersandhthAlf so it is still correct
 
2:09 PM
Argh, another 10 minutes wasted hunting down a missing break; statement. I hate case fall-through!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Take your pick
 
What idiot invented silent case fall-through, anyway?
 
@FredOverflow static code analysis
@FredOverflow look at Brian. But - no bad things about the dead !
 
@FredOverflow Is you ever gonna accept this?
 
@sehe How does static analysis differentiate between intended and accidental case fall-through?
 
2:11 PM
@FredOverflow dmr or ken?
@sehe What's int& then?
 
@DeadMG Well, you did spell favor wrong, after all.
 
@FredOverflow It doesn't. The solution, then, is simple: don't use intended case fall through.
 
@SamDeHaan favour is a fine BrE spelling
 
@DeadMG Yes, I regularly accept the best answers, usually every few weeks. But since you asked... :)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It is a reference.
 
2:11 PM
@DeadMG Hmm, my sarcasm tag appears to be broken.
 
It's a reference type.
 
@FredOverflow keke
 
That's what the standard calls it.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes He probably meant implicit references to garbage collected heap objects.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Esp when writing code that relies heavily on templates.
 
2:12 PM
@SamDeHaan Too used to having to fight AmE on here.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh. TIL
 
@FredOverflow Normally I don't bug people. But it was +8, no other answers, and no dissenting comments, so I figured you'd just forgotten about it.
 
@DeadMG I'll only fight aluminium, of course. Silly BrE.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I believe it came from BCPL, so they they can only be blamed (at most) for not changing the earlier design.
 
@DeadMG Have a badger.
 
2:13 PM
Anyone up for a non C++ question? :)
0
Q: BNF grammar for left-associative operators

FredOverflowI have the following EBNF grammar for simple arithmetic expressions with left-associative operators: expression: term {+ term} term: factor {* factor} factor: number ( expression ) How can I convert this into a BNF grammar without changing the operator associativity? The foll...

 
@JerryCoffin Array-to-pointer-decay also came from compatibility with a previous language
 
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes I only know how to move into a unique_ptr :L
 
@JerryCoffin They can be blamed for popularizing it!
@Ell It's the same.
Also, how the heck did case fall-through become popular?
 
Ell
Right okay. can you do:
unique_ptr<int> my_int = new int(300);
int a = move(my_int);
?
 
Oh, no.
int a = *my_int;
 
2:15 PM
Silly children I got. When given the option: go cycle to the woulds/play/snack vs. stay inside doing free-style handicrafts while I cook a stew... they opt the latter. Must be a hereditary thing
 
Or T a = std::move(*my_T); if you're being generic and really want to move.
But that looks a bit weird.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I think it's an accidental by-product. Pascal didn't work that way. C became more popular for entirely unrelated reasons, but when the Java people (for one example) went to "fix" C++, they mostly picked the wrong things to change...
 
Ell
Hmm wouldn't that be std::move'ing an int if T is int?
 
@JerryCoffin Exactly. It took until 2001 for someone to start fixing it.
 
@FredOverflow Done.
 
2:17 PM
C# is halfway through fixing it. Sadly they didn't go all the way.
@Ell Yeah, but that's harmless.
It degenerates into a copy.
 
Ell
what does it even do?
ahh right
 
@RMartinhoFernandes How so? you mean because case 1: case 2: doSomething(); break; is still legal?
 
@sehe They didn't fix the scopes.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah that way. GC + ReSharper take the edges off that though
 
Requiring a jump on every non-empty case is good, but the weird scoping is still annoying.
@sehe Yeah, R# is awesome.
I miss it.
It's addictive.
 
2:21 PM
I keep pestering my employer for a R# license.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I've been doing so many major refactorings in the last few months. Even while pair programming, there were at least 2 issues a day that ReSharper caught that we would probably have missed without the visibile inspections
 
@EtiennedeMartel Pester them moar!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm still pondering writing similar editor capabilities for C++ in Vim bassed on libclang. I'd be mostly satisfied with just lexer-based extend/shrink selection (C-w, S-Cw in standard R# bindings)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I've decided to settle on the "pick the trial and hope they give me one within 30 days" route.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Explain them they are a thieving themselves. As long as humans do the coding, R# is saving money
@EtiennedeMartel Make sure you expose colleagues to it.
 
2:23 PM
Spread it like wildfire.
 
wtf is R#?
 
@rubenvb nothing for mingw devs - move along
 
Xeo
ReSharper, a refactoring tool for C#
 
oh. ridiculousity
My refactoring tool: Qt Creator search and replace.
 
@rubenvb The best (more like sole, in my case) reason to use VS.
 
2:25 PM
@Xeo well, that narrows the application a bit, but yeah that's what it excels at
 
Any time people tell me VAX is good, I shut them up with R#.
 
@sehe Oh, if only management listened to logic. That would be a wonderful world.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes nice save :P
 
@SamDeHaan True that. I'm still stuck with helping everybody out with guerilla style Git repositories that enable all kind of history queries/ad hoc merges that are simply impossible to manage with SourceSafe (ugh) and Serena Dimensions....
 
2:27 PM
Hehe, Serena Dimensions. That cracks me up every time.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Thinking Williams's butt size?
 
My god, it can even replace is + cast with a as + != null.
 
@EtiennedeMartel And vice versa in many cases
 
@EtiennedeMartel Have you seen the for-loop-to-LINQ-query transformer?
 
2:28 PM
you guys and your toys.
corporate code must suck donkeyballs.
 
@rubenvb If you're doing .NET and you don't use R#, you're not doing it properly.
 
I find I can just order it to do almost anything I ever need to do in shuffling code around and rewriting conditions (reordering, inverting, merging, splitting, ternary-ing, de-ternary-ing etc)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah.
 
@rubenvb But the tools don't need to
 
@EtiennedeMartel .Net is a toy.
 
2:29 PM
@sehe I work in the software division of a hardware driven company. Management's favorite phrase to use to ignore logic is "We're not a software development firm." Makes me rage.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm not fond of it. More often than not, it linqifies too much, making it either a linqy mess or not what I wanted to extract to functors
 
@rubenvb A toy that gets shit done.
 
@SamDeHaan Yeah. You could just apologize and offer to resign when they say so. "I'm sorry, I misunderstood the job opening when I applied, then" :)
 
@sehe I don't think I've used it often (I rarely write loops in C# anymore :P), but I think it's really cool for demoing.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It is. V6 has the reverse as well, though so you can have your cake and eat it
 
2:31 PM
I'd rather work on corporate .NET code than corporate C++ code.
 
@sehe I really like LINQ.
Perhaps a bit too much.
 
I'd rather just code for hobby. Oh wait. That's what I do.
 
I'd rather answer questions on SO than work on corporate code.
 
I also love call graphing and value origin/destination plotting
 
@EtiennedeMartel You cannot like LINQ too much.
 
2:32 PM
This Android app is exhausting.
 
oh the joys of LaTeX error messages gain
gaah
 
@CatPlusPlus I'm laughing at your predicament.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I love linq. I hate the query syntax though. Also, it can become very hard to debug very quickly. (nested) Initializer syntax and chained Linq extensions are a bitch when something goes wrong /cc @RMartinhoFernandes
 
Most of this code would fit at TDWTF.
 
@KonradRudolph I pity you. LaTeX has the worst interface possible.
 
2:33 PM
my cover letter is like, five sentences
 
@sehe I was under the impression newer VS 2010 made LINQ debuggable. It's been a while since I used it though, so I might be misremembering.
 
Hmm, I got a "Access to modified closure" warning, and the suggested fix is to wrap it in an array.
 
@DeadMG So, does it fit on one page?
 
@sehe If it weren't my first out-of-college job, I probably would/should have done that a long time ago. Am just concerned about having my resume culled due to first real job <1yr
 
yeah
 
2:34 PM
getdidBookHaveBeenStarDonwloadState() setDidBookHaveBeenStarDonwlaodState(true)
 
@DeadMG "I. Am. The. Smartest. Person."?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes naw
part of the problem is that the recruitment advert is very generic and doesn't really mention the problem domain at all, except that it's C++
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It might do so, but in that case it is restricted to query syntax? Also, you can step into lambdas and anonymous methods, but it still makes it hard (i.e. unfeasible) to actually visualize the intermediates
 
Writing cover letters sucks.
 
so it's kinda hard to write a cover letter talking about how excited I am to work in that area
 
2:35 PM
@DeadMG It will suck.
 
@CatPlusPlus It's my best shot of actually landing a job.
 
@DeadMG What area?
 
Why on earth does GCC's official git mirror not have any release tags?
 
in the UK
 
Have you tried crashlanding a job instead?
 
2:36 PM
crashlanding a job?
 
Joke. Bad one, it seems. Don't mind me.
 
@DeadMG "As a proficient C++ programmer I'm always on the lookout for a position that allows me to use the experience. Therefore, I am most interested in the specifics of the position you have on offer." - that kind of thing
@rubenvb to annoy the crap out of you. Also, did you list remote branches too?
@RMartinhoFernandes Liked it :)
 
> I intend to put my solid grasp of the C++ language, including some aspects of C++11 at least including the elements present in the latest version of Visual Studio, to good use.
(it's a Windows-specific jobby)
 
@sehe say what? remote branches? I now use a script I found somewhere to search commit messages for "release" or somesuch. Works like a slow charm.
@DeadMG What if they don't know what C++11 is?
 
They'll be impressed!
 
2:38 PM
then I'll be sure to impress in the interview?
 
or scare the conservative minds out of their skin?
 
eh
 
@DeadMG If you get to the interview, I'm sure you'll get the job
 
Of that I'm quite sure as well.
 
@rubenvb I found a need for mingw64 yesterday...thanks for putting your build up
 
2:40 PM
OMG, he's aliiiive.
 
yeah, I'm pretty confident that I can demonstrate significant competence at the core C++ language and some of the MS-specific libraries too
 
I have a question for you gurus
 
@keithlayne you're welcome. Let me know (or better: the mingw-w64 list) if you run into any problems.
 
The definition of irony:
 
hmmm
 
2:41 PM
> Notable sans serif fonts include … MS Comic Sans, … and Helvetica. By the way, Helvetica is considered harmful by typographers.
 
bitbucket as a professional membership? :P
 
@rubenvb will do
 
struct iterator : public std::iterator<std::input_iterator_tag, size_t>, private base::iterator {};
 
trying to decide how I'm gonna shoehorn in my SO and bitbucket accounts on to my CV
 
2:41 PM
@KonradRudolph twitch
 
"Personal projects", or whatever.
 
I mean, let's face it, for a guy with no commercial experience or degree, it's my main chance to demonstrate that I don't suck
 
@DeadMG I just drop links to projects at the end.
 
Hmm, how can I turn off the "auto insert closing brace" thing in R#?
 
where base::iterator has a different category but otherwise the same traits
 
2:42 PM
@keithlayne looking good so far
 
@DeadMG linkedin can show github profile and projects.
 
I don't link to SO, though.
 
@keithlayne hmm
 
causes an ambiguity in the iterator traits when the private inheritance is added
it's weird to me
 
> I don't need a reason to learn new things, and I don't need a reason to do well at a task. If you wish to see what I have done for myself, you can view my StackOverflow profile and public BitBucket repository.
good/bad/ugly?
 
2:43 PM
Better than anything I'd manage to write.
 
Alright, found it.
 
Ell
"I don't need a reason to learn new things, and I don't need a reason to do well at a task" - what is this implying?
 
cause those two quotes are my whole cover letter :P
@Ell That I am intrinsically motivated.
it's a theory of employee motivation thing
 
@Ell That you don't need to whip him.
 
essentially
people who are motivated extrinsically turn up to their job for all the external factors- money, power, etc.
 
2:44 PM
@DeadMG May I see the entire cover letter?
 
and they would do as little as possible to get the rewards
 
Ell
oh right I get you
 
and Theory X says that all employees are like this, essentially
 
@DeadMG can you turn it around so you don't say 'don't'? Sounds kind of negative even though it's a good thing
 
and if you don't manage them like a bitch, they will screw you over
@Flexo Just did.
 
2:45 PM
@ManofOneWay He posted it already.
 
What are the English terms for "Graduation Grades"?
 
@ManofOneWay Those two quotes are the whole cover letter.
@rubenvb We usually just use "results".
 
you guys never answer my questions any more, I should have named my class "tits"
4
 
no, I mean 65%+ is ..., 75%+ is ... and 85%+ is....
 
2:46 PM
@rubenvb Depends on where from.
 
@keithlayne What was the question? I was on hold to answer "bananas", but I never saw the question mark.
 
@DeadMG University.
 
@rubenvb depends on what you are on about
 
Ell
@rubenvb A* is best, then A, then goes down the alphabet. But thats just for highschool
 
40%: pass, 50%: third, 60%: 2:1, 70%: first
 
2:46 PM
@rubenvb classifaction, first, two one, two two, third class, fail
 
Ell
university we have a first, ...a 2.1, a 2.2 and other things or something. I don't know about that :L
 
I think
 
in Flemish: voldoening, onderscheiding, grote onderscheiding, grootste onderscheiding.
 
@keithlayne you sure? which instantiation errors?
 
@DeadMG nope, change pass to third and third to 2:2
 
2:47 PM
@keithlayne ideone? Or don't make private :)
 
You know; cum laude and stuff.
 
how can you have gone all the way through uni and not known this @DeadMG?
 
we don't have that
 
struct iterator : public std::iterator<std::input_iterator_tag, size_t>, private base::iterator {};
...
why does adding a private base to iterator create an ambiguity on the iterator traits?
 
@thecoshman Because it didn't matter to me.
 
2:47 PM
@keithlayne you say it does that
evidence?
 
Well, LinkedIn has a field for it, I bet English has words for it.
 
@DeadMG Can't you add anything about what you like in programming (low level, gui whatever), which courses actually went well at the university (which courses you found to be interesting), etc?
So that they'll now a bit more about you
 
the only courses which were good at the university were ones I already did outside university- realistically.
 
To see that you have passion for something :)
 
main.cpp:24:16: error: reference to ‘value_type’ is ambiguous
 
2:48 PM
I would try to avoid the 'I failed uni' thing, it doesn't look good
 
there was one on requirements analysis which I suspect will prove useful, but it wasn't particularly interesting :P
 
@DeadMG we use a "cascade" system that weights towards top third year module and away from worst 2nd year modules rather than just an average.
 
g++ 4.7.1, 4.6.1 also, with -std=c++0x/11
 
@Flexo So do we. That percentage is final result.
my modules were weighted 25% second year, 75% third year
 
@keithlayne so it does. maybe try a using?
 
2:49 PM
hmmmm
 
Wiki says these exist in the US: "with honor" (cum laude), "with great honor" (magna cum laude) en "with highest honor" (summa cum laude)
 
@DeadMG add to this that some unis will discount the worse module from each year
 
but doesn't say which is which.
 
I have a strong urge to make a prototype of an operator operator(Lhs l, Rhs r) in a compiler so I can propose it for C++1y
 
@rubenvb I've never heard of anyone using those terms, or anything similar, in the UK.
 
2:50 PM
oh, and honours in UK is something that each uni seems to do differently
 
@Flexo operator operator?
 
@DeadMG Frankly, I didn't expect you to have heard those.
 
@Flexo What's that do?
 
I don't want a using I don't think, I just want to use some of the base's implementation and provide a weaker iterator
 
Do you guys use foo_bar or FooBar for custom class names? :)
 
2:50 PM
@keithlayne or a typedef
 
snake_case
 
Ell
does anyone know the name of these diagrams in the "Read Cycle" section of this datasheet (farnell.com/datasheets/86253.pdf) and others like it. I just need a term to google
 
@FredOverflow FooBar
 
As I said, you must use an LR parser (or recursive ascent) to recognize a left-recursive grammar. — DeadMG 30 mins ago
 
Ell
PascalCase
 
2:51 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes so a b c is an expression where b is working as a binary operator via it's operator operator :)
 
Ell
`PascalCase` for class names & members,
`snake_case` for local variables and parameters :P
 
(yeah, I know BS ruled out arbitrary user defined operators ages ago)
 
oh yeah, well I am most interested in the why right now, it's obviously something I don't undertand
 
@keithlayne typedef std::iterator<std::input_iterator_tag, int>::value_type value_type;
 
snake_case?
 
2:51 PM
@Ell Timing Diagram
 
it’s always the same with me. I need to write a LaTeX document but now I end up searching endlessly for a suitable sans-serif font which comes with small caps :/
procrastination as an art form
 
@keithlayne because it has two base classes to pull value_type from and no way to choose between them
 
@Flexo Don't give in! Arbitrary user-defined operators are awesome.
 
@ecatmur that versus inheritance?
 
2:52 PM
@KonradRudolph sans-serif small caps? wow...
 
I use stl_case ;-)
 
@EtiennedeMartel It looks like a snake crawling around, no?
 
@rubenvb stupid latin words, I only got two of them.
 
yeah, I was thinking that you can't avoid pulling typedefs from even a private base.
 
A Digital timing diagram is a representation of a set of signals in the time domain. A timing diagram can contain many rows, usually one of them being the clock. It is a tool that is ubiquitous in digital electronics, hardware debugging, and digital communications. Besides providing an overall description of the timing relationships, the digital timing diagram can help find and diagnose digital logic hazards. Diagram convention Most timing diagrams use the following conventions: * Higher value is a logic one * Lower value is a logic zero * A slot showing a high and low is an either or (su...
 
2:53 PM
@keithlayne it's still a base class
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Maybe.
 
@DeadMG see for example en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
 
… and Google Fonts doesn’t allow me to filter for font features
 
So, Google Fonts sucks at its own job?
 
which is a ridiculously arbitrary honours system.
At least we have solid numbers to decide which is which.
 
2:54 PM
@ecatmur seems like a new reason I hadn't heard to "prefer composition"
sigh...might make my struct two lines longer...bummer
 
I got my degree with a GPA of 3.2. So, yeah. School is bullshit for determining actual skill.
 
@keithlayne Private inheritance is composition.
 
you know what I meant
 
> I have intrinsic motivation to learn new things, and I have intrinsic motivation to do a good job. I have explored simple 3D graphics, simulation, and AI, and am in the process of specifying my own language. If you wish to see what I have done for myself, you can view my StackOverflow profile and public BitBucket repository.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I have no idea of your skill nor wtf GPA means.
 
2:56 PM
le better?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Is 3.2 good or bad?
 
I think I'm the only one who actually likes to use private inheritance
 
@EtiennedeMartel There were so many people who passed in my school's comp sci program who should have been kicked out at Java 1(yes, we use Java as an introductory language. I went to a terrible school)
 
@DeadMG "and I have intrinsic motivation to do a good job" sounds shit
 
<language> as a class is stupid.
 
2:56 PM
it's motivational theory
 
@DeadMG "prove it"
 
@RMartinhoFernandes B+. Slightly above average, it seems.
 
@DeadMG "can't be arsed to go looking for shit"
 
prove what, that it's motivational theory?
 
@EtiennedeMartel So, you suck?
:P
 
2:57 PM
@Sam I'm working in a CS lab where at least one PhD candidate programs at a 3rd-grade level, and nobody knows about c++ or anything functional
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Drinking is important for me. Studying, slightly less.
 
@thecoshman "don't want to work for you". I win.
 
@DeadMG that you have done worth while stuff. This is going to be the hardest thing for you, proving to the employer you are as good as you say
 
@thecoshman It's hardly a giant effort to click one link and have a look.
certainly less than, say, calling someone in for an interview
 
@EtiennedeMartel Don't worry. It took me seven years to finish a three year degree. If I finally pass the last few exams.
 
2:58 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't want to have to spend an hour on each CV looking at if they are worth taking on. I am only going to give a final few that luxury, they will be culled very quickley
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Now that's slow.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Are you kidding?
 
if you can't be bothered to click a link, why are you even hiring at all? how are you gonna be bothered to interview people?
 
Is tuition low in Portugal?
 
@ManofOneWay I'm dead serious.
 
2:59 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes are you gonna finish? What type of degree is it again?
@EtiennedeMartel maybe not, but employment sure is
 
@RMartinhoFernandes In CS, I assume?
 
Official name is "Informatics Engineering".
 
@DeadMG I've got to cull the stack of CVs some how, maybe once I am closer to making a final decision I will look at these links, but for now, I will just go with what they have given me
 

« first day (634 days earlier)      last day (4306 days later) »