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06:00 - 20:0020:00 - 21:00

06:42
morning dudes
It's Wednesday my dudes.
Sleepy Clept does not understand the wednesday statement
Your lack of meme-knowledge is disturbing.
06:58
GoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOd Mornin' neglecterinos!
@Freerey no
07:22
good morning
07:33
Guut morning
why I am learning Unity again?
because you are learning it and you have learned it to some degree in the past
@Wietlol you true!
:D
I don't even understand why I am still using microsoft..
I mean they changed my default browser to edge.
Something I didn't want to intstall and something i didn't install-.
Frigg microsoft for forcing products on me
Because everything else is worse @Squirrelintraining?
I also remember when they advertised for Teams
on windows update, MS Teams was installed automatically and on startup, it would start Teams and lure you into it
obviously, I uninstalled Teams immediately
next restart, Teams is back
took me a while to uninstall both Teams and it's installer properly
I am the only one allowed to perform such malicious heresy on my machine
07:49
@Hozuki Not quite.
I'm hoping WiettOS might be better..
@Wietlol ^
WietOS might take a while tho...
prolly not gonna come in the next decade
or... century
or... longer than that
I remember when Skype was decent
we would never touch Teams
I still use Discord and Slack...
I see no reason to change
apart from that Discord's notification system sucks
Discord: *ping*
Me: "oh, a new message?"
Discord: "maybe... but I wont tell you which"
08:21
@ntohl back in the golden days :3
@Squirrelintraining they should teach how M$ bled out Skype
Ad hominem attacks now, wow
Just surprised at the new low of Donald Trump to resort to ad hominem attacks
08:33
@Neil you are surprised?
I suppose I really shouldn't be
> ad hominem attacks
I never heard of that.
Now I know what it means.
Instead of being on topic you argument on a personal level.
Hasn't the doofus been doing that for.. like 60 years?
well elections have always been heated, but I don't think I've ever seen direct attacks on the person themselves
At least not through official channels
"official channels"... twitter?
if Donald Trump isn't representative of his own campaign, then who is?
08:36
I dont really follow the debates, but I wouldnt be surprised if Trump made at least one personal "attack" or insult to another person during each of the debates
I can understand that perhaps interrupting Biden repeatedly during the debates could be a strat for making him fumble, but that has a serious risk to backfire and make him look like the grade school bully
He's not exactly helping that image by insulting Biden either
the most stupid part is... half of USA actually thinks it is entertaining
well it is entertaining in a way, I just wouldn't vote for a candidate purely for "entertainment" purposes, though I'm sure there are those who would
@Neil It has happend often
can you give me an example?
08:50
You're lucky it isn't friday today..
My fingers are itching to replace the link witht the friday link
I meant, with other presidents :)
the ads on that page are over 9000
@Squirrelintraining I actually quite like Windows nowadays... much better than Linux and pretty much equal to Mac.
@Squirrelintraining Wait, that's illegal
Yeah it's nice but it keeps forcing things on you that you don't want.
A bit like ye old Kim
@Neil I'm a bad squirrel!
08:55
well, you're still learning how to be a squirrel afterall
Prolly nixxxon did the same.
But usually the bashing is not so trashy like with the drump
Jack, baaad
@Squirrelintraining I see it the same way that Mac aggressively pushes you towards Safari and App Store, how Linux distributions come with recommended packages at upgrades, how Android shoves down apps your throat, and how iOS doesn't even allow anything the company doesn't want.
... Not to say it's good, but it feels less bad than others.
@Squirrelintraining 1 hour later...
Microsoft made Windows and mspaint.exe
everything else is trash :D
(meanwhile, I am still using windows 7 on a windows 10 machine)
ah, mspaint.exe.. My source of entertainment on my dad's office pc before there was the internet
oh the memories
09:02
@Hozuki true actually
@Wietlol wait, waht about pinball?
did microsoft make pinball?
according to google, it was Cinematronics
I think pinball was available from windows 98 onwards I want to say
windows 95 had minesweeper, solitaire, and mspaint.exe
fun times
hmm... only 10 minutes late
is Jack improving?
09:07
@Wietlol orly well windows ahd it by default
what happened to Opera?
to be fair, it's an old joke
The new edge is very good.
09:25
it is still edge though
One could say it's... cutting edge 😏
to be fair, it's probably way better now. I still wouldn't use it simply out of principle
they dominated the market for so many years, and I think they just assumed there was no point improving on it for that reason
they only began caring about this when other browsers began doing what everyone was asking and the market started slipping to the others
All they legit had to do was care about not losing their market share
also, just changing to chromium is not sufficient
afaik, chromium is just the html/css/js engine
so the way how tabs, bookmarks, url completion, plugins, settings, etc work is still different between browsers
I read that the Google anti-monopoly lawsuit might end up taking Chrome away from Google...
I stuck ...
09:34
WD40
kame.getUnstuck()
I want to improve my Entity Framework knowledge and thougt about creating a TrafficSimulator. :) But do I really need a DB for simulating cars, bicycles (position and velocity)?
:D
@Wietlol If everything would be so easy. Problem.JustSolveIt()
that wont work tho
@kame you want a better example?
@ntohl of?
@ntohl for?
09:37
of using EF?
yes please :D
Inventory of a store
accounts + cart
classic
Handle university students data ....
other classic...
you have your solution. Ditch the TrafficSim
09:39
Hmmmmm. I still have some time at home. I am not sure what to do now.
Should I focus on Entity Framework (loud thinking kame)?
Jack, learn ntohl <>https://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/50684655#50684655
Jack, tell kame ntohl
Imho, any program that you could write to work with a database can be made to work without by simply creating the data in memory for testing
if you want to make a traffic simulator, make it work without a db first, then you can decide to persist that information after everything works
Deep inside yourself. Imagine which thing would you improve more. Improve on the EF technology, or constructing a TrafficSimulator from ground up
yeah. TrafficSim would have the problems of communicating actors. Not the persistence
They're two entirely different aspects of the program. So like every aspect of a program, don't complicate things needlessly and focus on one at a time
@Neil very good advice.
@Neil it is difficult for me to see, which technologies are needed on the job market now.
09:45
@Neil the point was to learn EF
@ntohl I would create the TrafficSim with Unity. (I have some experience there) At least it would improve my logical thinking.
so removing the DB part would be... working against that goal, no?
Wietlol doesn't see the inner conflict...
0.o?
@Wietlol then why is he talking about a traffic simulator?
09:48
> I want to improve my Entity Framework knowledge and thougt about creating a TrafficSimulator.
iDunno where the idea of the TrafficSimulator came from, but I assume it is an example or sandbox project to explore EF
make something useful like, say, a personal issue tracker
it could easily be replaced by something like a student management project or web shop project
no. Kame just now figures out what he/she would like to start
@ntohl he
I made something similar, it's very useful for remembering things you need to have done
09:50
I don't need a TrafficSim, it could be anything
@kame you can be a fridge. Nobody knows
I've got states like TODO, Waiting on.., waiting to deploy, deployed, resolved, etc.
an issue tracking thing might be interesting
and I have fields for all those things
I'm not persisting to a database, but that would be a great use of a database imho
I've learned the command ntohl
09:51
YAY
10m have passed
lets see the WD40
I don't understand mate
2
or... will that take another 10?
oh, there we go
@ntohl I am no fridge, I am a kame.
he-kame
I just started my new home project. LogLert. It would push notifs to Android phone with the power of the Quartz scheduler
One is missing
Jack, tell kame ntohl
He does react to edits.. right?
09:56
now that our 3rd child is born, there are a lot of events which can be scheduled. There is not enough sophisticated method to define the schedules. Like giving a specific medicine at 3 every day. Or heat the water every 3 hours.
so the hourly schedules might postpone the next event. When you press the button, that the event happened for example 1 hours later than scheduled, it would push the next one 1 hour later
the daily doesn't care about if it has happened 1 hour later
you could see the logs what event happened when in a simple list
you can do a lot of that with an Echo
sup
im having a very weird problem
its a nullreference exception
but idk why
just tell it to remind you say, once a day at this hour, and if your android is synched with it, it'll show up on your phone
the object is set, its a string StatementType = null;
and while debugging, the error is on a break; statemen in switch(statement type)
well, it's not enough to be set, it also can't be null :P
09:59
can i lve share
vs anyone?
@ntohl @Neil @Wietlol I think I will forget all the graphical stuff like Unity and TrafficSim. I concentrate on a supermarket project.
use gist
can you post a minimal concise code block describing your problem? preferably on pastebin.com
I will use EF Core with .NET Core
@kame well whatever inspires you
if you're writing a program to learn, then why not make it interesting for you?
10:00
@Neil A TrafficSim does not fit with EF
wait a sec
@kame well yeah, I mean obviously it should fit with EF too :)
@Neil a TrafficSim in Unity is interessting, but I want/have to learn more EF.
i cant put on pastebin, its linked, if i dont include one file other will be ununderstandable
heres live share
u can do online
well copy a bit of both and put it in the same pastebin
@Squirrelintraining wouldnt count on it
iirc, Jack is a browser based bot, listening to changes on the dom where a new message element is added
it would be a bit tricky to listen for updates on existing dom elements
I will try the supermarket together with WPF. The a supermarket manager could see the earnings in a graph or could set discount on products
I would set it up as a web service
leave the ui out entirely
later on, you can add ui to it
@Neil can you giff me a link plz?
@ntohl Just telling you from experience :)
we use an Echo for an alarm clock
we needed one, so we figured why not..
or the linux one?
No, Amazon Echo
oh. Ok..
10:10
you say something like "Remind me to feed the baby every day at 8 am" and it does
or grab the mail mondays, wednesdays, fridays.. etc.
now I understand
does it also understand sane time notation?
it does not understand Wietlol time, no
I didnt invent the 24h clock
I prolly could, but I wasn't born back in... how many thousand years ago?
if you just say to "remind me at 8", then it explicitly asks if you mean the morning or evening
though I'm guessing it doesn't do the same if you said to remind you at 20
10:13
pathetic
8 is always morning
except when someone says 8 intending for it to be evening, in which case it isn't
but that is someone's fault
slack does it quite well actually
with the /remind action
nvm fixed the code
it was cuz the size of array wasnt set
damn you code
0.o
NRE when you dont set the size of an array?
10:17
null ref
42 mins ago, by ntohl
WD40
HA!
42 minuets
Perfekt timing Jack!
ya null without size
when will C# actually start trying to infer generic types?
do we have to wait until C# 18?
nope
c# 9999999
man im waiting for c# 9.0 for top level statements
thats teh oen thing i was wishing for for a year, and me wish came true
10:24
I want data classes
classes that only store data?
oh and covariant returns
classes that dont have boilerplate over 9000
but data clases exist
proper data classes in C# have a tremendous amount of duplication in them
classes that dont have boilerplate over 9000?
and wats covariant returns
i didnt understand it
it means that a method can return a more specific type
interface ObjectBuilder {
	Object Build();
}

interface StringBuilder : ObjectBuilder {
	String Build();
}

interface ListBuilder<T> : ObjectBuilder {
	IList<T> Build();
}
those 3 methods would all be the same
if there is no covariant returns (so, pre C#9)
interface ObjectBuilder {
	Object Build();
}

interface StringBuilder : ObjectBuilder {
	Object Build();
}

interface ListBuilder<T> : ObjectBuilder {
	Object Build();
}
all methods must return Object (because that is the return type of the root method)
I do wonder how long they are gonna take to allow contravariant parameters though
interface StringBuilder : ObjectBuilder<TObject> {
	TObject Build();
}
10:31
but the C# team always has been short sighted when it comes to paired features
isnt it supposed to be like that?
@misha130 no, no it is not
that is generic type abuse
really now
I am doing exactly this right so I might as well switch to 9
generics are required when you want to have contravariant return types
or when covariant parameters
if you would abuse them for covariant returns, you are just cluttering the interface
and if you have more than one method, it just becomes a pain
totally confused. Some inner voice brought up ASP.NET. I could create a supermarket simulation with Entity Framework combined with ASP.NET. What do you think?
10:35
yeap clutter
Does it makes sense?
mr5
mr5
@Wietlol also, when inheriting interface, you are not supposed to re declare the prototypes.
true
except in the first example
mr5
mr5
ehh
interface ObjectBuilder<out T>
{
	T Build();
}
why can't it be like this?
clutter
10:42
yes its clutter I end up doing both options and result in generics
interface ObjectBuilder<out TResult, TOptions>
{
	TResult Build(Action<TOptions> options = null);
}
some crap like this
not exactly but sometimes
interface Machine {
	Runtime GetRuntime();

	Process StartProcess(ProcessOptions options);
}

interface WindowsMachine : Machine {
	WindowsRuntime GetRuntime();

	WindowsProcess StartProcess(ProcessOptions options);
}

interface LinuxMachine : Machine {
	LinuxRuntime GetRuntime();

	LinuxProcess StartProcess(ProcessOptions options);
}
look mom, no generics!
when you are working with stuff like WPF, you could easily just use a WindowsMachine because you are already locked anyway, with it, you have a more detailed api of your device
when you want to make an application that supports more platforms than just Windows, then you would probably want to use the Machine interface instead, working with a less rich api but with broader support
@Wietlol I just checked if this would work in C# 9 but I saw that it forced me to implement all signatures
it wat?
it told me to implement all 3 methods
at least in rider
and if you do... override String Build(); ?
Rider probably is probably not going to give you full support for C#9 yet
10:46
dotnetconf.net/agenda check this out
yea its rider
there is no override
although, it would also not be the first time that C# simply just doesnt copy the feature properly
it tells me to new, not override
do you have VS installed?
why is there a Jack error message in the starred messages?
10:48
yes
have you tried on VS?
yes it told me to new
but how would this work if I inject Machine
and want to know the type of the result
not really
if I dont want to test the interface I have to use generics
you only care about the result being Runtime
10:50
if I dont want to do _machine is LinuxMachine
I understand but if you do care its a problem
is it though?
if you are building only for a specific machine type, then you can just use that specific type
if you are not building for a specific machine type, you dont want to care which sub interface you are dealing with
yes I suppose you inject LinuxMachine not Machine
does this work tho?
public interface Base {
	Object GetObject();
}

public interface Sub : Base {
	override String GetObject();
}

public class Main : Sub {
	public override String GetObject() => "Hello, World!";

	public static void Main()
	{
		var instance = new Main();
		String text = instance.GetObject();
		Console.WriteLine(text);
	}
}
in VS
37 mins ago, by JackSparrow
42 mins ago, by ntohl
WD40
does it work for you wiet?
I tried and thats a no
11:11
that is how it should work
if that is not how it works, then they börked their design again
maybe some messing with the keywords
with and without overrides and stuff
but assuming they correctly copied the design, interfaces should be able to overrule the signature of methods on their parent interfaces
and classes would implement the overruling method
whats the difference here with new?
new would mean both functions exist
but only one is shown
and thus only one needs to implemented
no?
does it work if you do new String GetObject(); ?
and only have to implement it once?
nope
never mind
its probably a problem on my end
with vs or something
11:15
in <9 C#, you would do something like
Object Base.GetObject() => GetObject();
public String GetObject() => "Hello, World!";
mr5
mr5
11:45
then the former is hidden
mr5
mr5
why is there no filipino version of the docs :(
found it but it's still in English: docs.microsoft.com/fil-ph/aspnet/core/data/ef-mvc/…
!~shiba
12:32
Ryan Donovan on October 14, 2020
We tend to rely on caching solutions to improve database performance. Caching frequently-accessed queries in memory or via a database can optimize write/read performance and reduce network latency, especially for heavy-workload applications, such as gaming services and Q&A portals. But you can further improve performance by pooling users’ connections to a database. Client users need…
petition to change JackSparrow to JackJack from The Incredibles cause he has the intelligence of an actual baby
mr5
mr5
pool everywhere
what's next, variable pooling?
petition to remove the ability to petition things
@Feeds SHHH!
who's this default icon and why they tellin us to stop makin petitions??
mr5
mr5
13:06
listen to this with your headset on (bass required)
I'm now listening for commands in this room
listen to your heart when he's calling for you
my work laptop is finally getting an update for the first time since I've started working here
13:28
3 hours ago, by Squirrel in training
37 mins ago, by JackSparrow
42 mins ago, by ntohl
WD40
17 mins ago, by JackSparrow
I'm now listening for commands in this room
lies
@mr5 holy crud
Thats hypnotising
13:56
Is a whitespace (for example: new car - the whitespace between new and car)in google search equivalent to an OR operator?
not really
@mr5 object pooling is a common thing in many runtimes
white space is white space.
White space is love, white space is life.
White space can be used for spacing but not for writing.
White space oh white space why do you exist?
White space oh white space, thou arn't blackspace ♥
(think of a sheet of stanard whtie paper, you write in black, everything which is left empty is white space, e.g. space or tab)
14:30
What's surrounding subatomic particles in an atom? white space..
15:05
squirrels ?
SQUIRRELS!
2 hours ago, by Squirrel in training
3 hours ago, by Squirrel in training
37 mins ago, by JackSparrow
42 mins ago, by ntohl
WD40
SQUIRRELS OR RIOT
୧༼ಠ益ಠ༽୨ riot ୧༼ಠ益ಠ༽୨
 
4 hours later…
19:12
Anyone know how to make a numericupdown extender for an asp.net control?
19:45
The following mentions that deserializing data from an untrusted source is a security issue. Is the security issue that the code could end up using an untrusted deserialized data in operations where only a trusted piece of deserialized data should be used, or is it that the untrusted deserialized data could be like a Trojan horse that starts carrying out nefarious activities in your program? I know an OS can be infected like the latter, but I don't know if the same can happen to a program?
> Always verify inputs, and never deserialize data from an untrusted source. The re-created object runs on a local computer with the permissions of the code that deserialized it. Verify all inputs before using the data in your application.
probably just stupid code on the backing side
@Wietlol I'm not sure what you mean by backing side?
@Wietlol I want to check my understanding of inheritance where interfaces are concerned. In that code you wrote, I know that if you implement WindowsMachine then you must implement all members declared in Machine, but does WindowsMachine actually inherit anything from Machine?
As far as I know only implementations of members are inherited.
if you have a security vulnerability due to deserialization, that probably means that the code you execute after you have the deserialized object is stupid
as for the machine example, no it doesnt inherit anything from its parent interface
I see, I'm guessing the code is stupid because it should verify the input first?
even verifying the input is often not required
06:00 - 20:0020:00 - 21:00

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