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10:00 AM
@Khajvah A look through the config docs reveals this that might fix your issue (although as per the caveat, it is fixing the symptom rather than cause, maybe)
 
it didn't work
 
:(
 
the thing is, I don't do multithreading at all, so I don't think it's my application
 
Higher level design answer: pass
I have the Friday Feeling.
 
Yeah, it's v odd. This bit in the ruby quickstart is interesting - it seems to disable uwsgi forking itself, so might stop the child processes? As with the others, symptom treatment.
This discussion reminds me that I have my own server thing to debug, I should probably go do that. Gunicorn's acting up/unresponsive, but I can serve it to the same ports on runserver behind nginx. Stupid.
 
10:13 AM
mildly plugs Waitress
 
@JRichardSnape the truth is no one ever calls me by phone.
 
my application was working fine with gunicorn.
 
those who place an actual phone call are usually just trouble.
 
then I decided to switch to uwsgi, so I can have easy websocket support
 
1 of my friends does call me by phone, but he's my customer too.
 
10:15 AM
It does seem odd that the worker is starting processes that are apparently the same command line as itself (i.e. uwsgi --ini uwsgi.conf) per request. So to start uwsgi, you are literally manually typing that line, rather than having it in a script somewhere that might be autorun by something? I know that's the same Q as withnail above, but I'm scratching my head.
 
@JRichardSnape people actually use phones to call there?
 
Robert - is 'very acceptable' performance a british understatement?
 
Yeah - I get very few phone calls these days. In fact:
Jul 28 at 14:39, by J Richard Snape
Gah, I hate the 21st Century. I have managed to log out of my desk phone and cannot log back into it. It should not be possible to log out of a phone. The internet of things has gone too far.
 
@JRichardSnape wow, you have a desk :D
 
I decided to not even bother logging back in. No reported problems thus far
@Antti I'm soooo 20th Century, man.
 
10:18 AM
I have a desk! It's in my kitchen, but still...
 
I love the "very acceptable". I'm hoping it's like Rolls Royce's "adequate" when describing the power of their engines.
 
Re: internet of shit things. "I just wanted a glass of water." -
 
We have a hotdesk policy at FC, but some people manage to swing their own permanent desk. I am such a person, we are looked on with utter jealousy and anger. I love it.
 
@JRichardSnape we don't have phones, only Skype :)
Works surprisingly well
 
80 % of calls that I receive are sales calls. 15 % are from the said friend, who always also talks about business in every call, so I want to record them. 5 % are from my wife who's wondering where did I disappear in the mall and why am I not reading the facebook messages that she's sending.
 
10:21 AM
:D
@Withnail That is priceless.
 
Bob
10:51 AM
Hi
 
Advantage of working from home? Lunch time vidya gaems.
DOOM is 50% off. Go buy it now, even if your PC can't play it. I'm looking at you @idjaw.
Fallout 4 only £20. Ooof.
Commander Keen only £1.50.
That's now officially what I value Tristan at.
 
I have a gaming pc... but the only game there is good old War craft 3 the Frozen Throne ;/
 
@Ffisegydd indeed! Or Netflix for me
 
Oh well yeah Netflix too.
 
I try installing Visual Studio Community Edition, and it needs 8GB of space, then after an hour it says it's stopped working and then asks for a reboot. What...?
 
11:07 AM
reboot and wait for an hour again hoping & praying .
 
Cover your PC in accelerant, take a drag of your cigarette, flick the dying cigarette at it and then walk away.
As you're walking, put your sunglasses on right at the moment the explosion takes.
 
no fallout4 on mac. :( Probably just as well, really.
 
@Withnail why should they make port the game for 1 % or less of mac gamers
 
I don't think I said they should? Just expressed disappointment that it's not.
 
@MartijnPieters re: stackoverflow.com/questions/38787805/… Why are they Unicode in Python 2.6? They should be just plain (byte) strings, shouldn't they? That's what I get on my Python 2.6 system. Or is there some magic encoding thing happening that I don't know about?
 
11:20 AM
 >>> hobbies
 ['1', 'abcd', 'sgagasgsaag fasafsf']
that's 2.7.6
@Ffisegydd me too, but he didn't look this much of an ass
 
It looks like Kasra's dupe target explains it. The OP's running in a weird environment.
 
and cabbage
 
@PM2Ring yep - just tried it on pythonanywhere and it gives what you'd expect in your own terminal, but I bet codeacademy is doing some alchemy on stdin
 
@AndrasDeak I just finished reading the transcripts (as I generally try to do). I think Fizzy was right when he suggested that CP was off his medication, and CP kinda admitted that that was the case.
 
it was probably tristan, but it doesn't really matter:)
 
11:27 AM
Same person.
 
oh, explains a lot
 
@PM2Ring They should be, but the OP is not using CPython..
 
@MartijnPieters Ok. You'd think they'd mention something significant like that...
 
@RobertGrant I did manage to get it installed, but now it tells me my 30 day trial is over, despite the fact it's the community edition :( I'm not sure I can take trying to figure out how to get it working again.
@PM2Ring it's only significant to you if you already know it's significant...
 
@PM2Ring I don't think they realised.
 
11:34 AM
@JRichardSnape just rebooted - we'll see in 30 days :)
 
@JRichardSnape Surely they'd realise that running your Python on a website might be a little different to running it locally. OTOH, if you're new to coding you may have no idea how radically different the environments are.
 
Indeed not. I have now supervised enough students to realise how little basic knowledge of architecture you can assume.
 
The difference between CPython and not CPython is pretty unusual, I'd say
 
Be it hardware, software or environment.
 
You would hope to have no differences a beginner could detect between different JVM products, for example
 
11:38 AM
Now replace "square" with php and "circle" with python \o/
4
 
And I guess if you've been using Web browsers all your life you don't really consider what happens in a browser page to be any different to what happens in a native window.
 
^ which many people have these days
 
Not bad from one answer: 4 badges and 465 points, hitting the rep cap 2 days running. I don't think I'll beat that in a hurry. :) Pity it didn't happen a month or so ago, when I was desperately scrabbling for points to get Python gold. stackoverflow.com/a/38743446/4014959
 
:) It's unpredictable which ones will "take hold"
 
11:53 AM
Indeed. As I said the other day, it seems a bit silly to get so many points for something that simple. But I'm not complaining. ;)
 
2567
Q: How to check whether a file exists using Python?

spence91How do I check whether a file exists, using Python, without using a try-catch statement?

this has 2k+ upvotes
yours deserves it
 
@khajvah Well, yeah. But that was back in the Golden Age of SO, when there was still plenty of low-hanging fruit to pick.
@khajvah Thanks!
 
I think SO is dying, so many people just looking for things to close
 
@JohanLarsson umm...people looking for things to close is not the reason; it's an implication
 
how do you mean?
 
12:00 PM
quality is declining and most good questions have been asked, so most of the new contributions are worthless crap
if we don't want the good stuff to be burie under worthless crap, we need to shovel it hard
 
not saying that there are no crap questions
 
And he wasn't saying you were saying that
 
Just to save us from being buried under a pile of non sequiturs
 
12:02 PM
I think people spend a lot of time worrying about quality of content. Google is pretty good at picking out most relevant content. Just ignore the crap, close it if you come across it.
 
shovels all the non sequiturs
 
And even most of those crap questions can be safely ignored. The stuff that needs closing are bad questions that are of no long-term value to the site but that nevertheless attract FGITW answers.
 
I don't go to main much
 
@JohanLarsson so what is your point?
 
@JRichardSnape not sure if Google will help with that
 
12:03 PM
your lookout point from meta/chat is worrying?:P
 
My main usage of SO is finding some old question to post an answer on if I have a snippet I want to find in the future
 
there's also github;)
gotta go now, be back later
 
yeah but google indexes SO higher than my gists :)
watch out for carpal tunnel if you start to scroll
 
I assume that Google takes page views & votes into account, but they aren't an infallible guide, since recent low-vote pages may have higher quality content than pages from the early days of SO with high vote counts.
 
yeah, nothing is perfect
@AndrasDeak meta: not even once
meta culture is what is killing so :D
 
12:09 PM
I'll just keep on being away:P
 
Wise
 
@RobertGrant Sorry - disappeared under a pile of non sequiturs
user image
5
Yes, it very much is Friday lunchtime, thanks for asking.
 
Okay, amazing.
 
Anyway - I have 3 mediocre papers to review now, so I shall bid you rhubarb and fortify myself with strong coffee while I do so. See you on the other side.
 
12:22 PM
@JRichardSnape for the worst paper, only return half of it and write at the end: D- please print on more absorbent paper
And let their average mind do the rest
 
SO indeed must be dying; this is the first time I see @JohanLarsson saying anything without directly mentioning Sweden 2 minutes before.
 
dunno why I said it
 
I agree with you, but not because of the CV thing.
the CV is just the symptom.
as andras said.
 
symptom of large quantities of low quality content?
 
yes
the point of stackoverflow is that "I have a problem, I go to google, I enter my question in there, it comes up first in Stack Overflow, I find the quality answers in there"
but there are so many questions now being posted that if you take the title of that question, paste it into Google, you already find an answer.
like the umpteenth time someone posts "IndentationError"
 
12:32 PM
Travis CI asks permission to access all my private Github projects. But I want travis to access that particular private project only because I have some other private projects which belongs to another organisation.. How to overcome this situation?
 
Hey guys, I have a problem with UnicodeEncoderError on windows. Can someone enlighten me?
 
surprisingly often answers with many upvotes are poor ime
 
@AvinashRaj IIRC, you can't, github sucks
@JohanLarsson the current review tools suggest it.
"this is a first post by a new user in #someesotericprogrammminglanguagethatyoudonotknow". Does it look ok?
and after 3 people say "it looks ok", the review tools suggest that the answer be upvoted since everyone said it looks ok.
 
@AnttiHaapala oh,, :(
 
@JohanLarsson you should see the
for absolutely horrible content.
 
12:36 PM
I don't know c
 
usually they're like 300 line programs now, that do not even compile, with bad indents and 300 undefined behaviors, the user asks "my code crashes, how to fix"
 
I mostly see the when it is linked in chats.
 
and the real answer is really "enrol to a coding class in the university"
"or read a book, starting from the introductory chapter"
 
sorry to interrupt, but @AnttiHaapala, could you help with something?
 
@TheGodProject did you try google with your error?
 
12:38 PM
Yes, it's been 2 weeks I've been on the same problem and I'm just lost now ..
 
@TheGodProject you had UnicodeEncodeError, not Encoder error. And you did have an error message.
you also had a piece of code where the error occurred
and you had a certain version of Python (2.7 or 3.x I hope).
@TheGodProject you say you've had this problem for 2 weeks, but did you ask a question on the main site either?
from this: stackoverflow.com/questions/38735951/… I know you're using Python 2.
that is how Python 2 behaves, but it is still unclear as to what do you actually expect to get.
 
@AnttiHaapala thanks for the clarification. And I am using python 3 btw. I just didn't know how to approach it since I'm not that familiar with encoding/decoding. I'll just keep checking the site then.
 
it is always the same:
you take the whole error message: UnicodeEncodeError: foo bar can't baz baz
then copy it to google or duckduckgo, or something; add site:stackoverflow.com, open the first search result :D
 
user5639219
Hello everyone!
 
@Maic cbg
 
user5639219
12:47 PM
Someone can help me? with pip and django
 
just ask
 
user5639219
oaky
 
user5639219
when i try 'pip install -r REQUIREMENTS.txt' i have this error
 
user5639219
Failed building wheel for uWSGI
 
user559633
@Withnail it's pure python, so it's possibly more "correct" at the cost of initial latency
 
user559633
12:49 PM
also, cbg, my patch of friends
 
@Maic please use pastebin instead.
 
user5639219
okay
 
Surely that error is found elsewhre.
first google result
not surprisingly in uwsgi bug tracker. Go there
@Maic remove forced version from requirements.txt
 
user5639219
thanks
 
user5639219
works
 
user559633
12:53 PM
@Ffisegydd awww, you value me (❛ᴗ❛)/
 
@Maic and same applies to you that I told @TheGodProject: google first.
IANASE
 
sometimes I feel bad to admit that my job is 50% about successful googling.
 
user5639219
okay, i understand.
 
I hate the word "scale"
 
This is a fresh question about partial function application: stackoverflow.com/questions/38788869/… One of the answerers suggested that it be used as the dupe target of an older question that he originally proposed as a dupe target: stackoverflow.com/questions/3188048/…
I.e., close the old question with the new one as the target, since the new question discusses both functools.partial and the use of closures. Does that sound like a good idea?
 
1:09 PM
Seems weird to close a 33 point question as a dupe of a 1 point question.
Alexandrian solution: Add an answer on the 33 point question that covers the closure approach, then forever after use it as the canonical target.
 
@Kevin Yeah, that's why I'm hesitant to do it. OTOH, the old question is a bit light, it doesn't mention closures & why functools.partial is better, and (I guess) it has the points mostly due to age.
 
@PM2Ring in theory yes, but I wonder if it could be incredibly easy to game
 
@Kevin Good idea. I'll suggest that to Elazar.
 
I think his last comment suggests about as much, already
 
user559633
oh good, more band saw for my friday morning
 
1:15 PM
Morning cabbage.
 
@PM2Ring closing old with better new is perfectly fine if it's done right (i.e. no gaming involved, and the new is clearly better/clearer/more comprehensive than the old)
also, recbg
 
morning everyone
 
@AndrasDeak Elazar just pointed out that the old one was a bit more specific: it needs to handle *args and **kwargs stuff, so they're not a good match after all.
 
@PM2Ring I'm OK with that. Was just responding to your question in general:)
 
FWIW, I did try to look for better dupe targets, but within a couple of minutes it had 4 answers, none of which mentioned closures. So I figured "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em". :) But by the time I submitted mine Elazar had already posted his.
 
1:24 PM
I didn't even look at the question, so no worries as far as I'm concerned:P
 
@AndrasDeak Ah, right. I've helped dup-close old questions with new targets before. Because it's a reversal of the usual process I think you need to be a bit more accurate in the matching process. And the top answers on the new question have to be very good.
 
I agree
 
Also, now that I have Mjölnir, I'm a little bit cautious about VTCing as dupe. If I'm not certain of what I'm doing I think it's a Good Idea to get opinions in here.
 
Yeah, I can see why. There's been a feature request to have the option of non-hammer dupe voting by gold badgers:)
 
I think it would be nice to give Bronze badgers 2 close votes, Silver badgers 3 votes & Gold 4 votes. Or something like that, so that you always need at least 2 people to close a question. And apply that rule to a wide range of closing, not just dupe-closing.
 
1:35 PM
@PM2Ring sorry for the mess there
 
@PM2Ring that might also have a FR somewhere:)
would help a lot
 
@PM2Ring I figured the older question is actually about how to implement partial
 
@Elazar Welcome to SO Python Chat! Don't worry about the mess, we cleaned up the evidence. :)
 
:)
 
@tristan Given the current value of the £, it's pretty much 0.
 
1:40 PM
@Elazar Yeah, I guess it is. I've never looked the CPython source for partial. But I guess it can "cheat" to make calling the curried function more efficient than doing it in pure Python. I expect Martijn Pieters would know...
 
user559633
Oh great, thanks for the imperial system, England. Now you're saying that 1kg != 2.2£ ?
 
Nice.
Oh wait - kg is Paris, not Nice.
 
@Elazar BTW, if you wonder what people mean by "cabbage", "rhubarb", "yam", "garlic", and other fruit & vegetables, see the section on Salad Language in our Room Rules
 
@PM2Ring Yeah of course it is written in C
 
1:54 PM
probably a dumb question... but what actually IS docker? Just a small VM for your program to run in for compatibility and dependencies?
 
No one can be told what it is...you have to see it for yourself.
I haven't actually used docker, but I imagine it to be a way of life.
 
yeah, I imagine there's black robes and pentagrams involved at some point
Just like JavaScript
 
I think I just acted like an asshole but I couldn't help myself. One guy is claiming that ruby or Python are not very scalable and can't handle a websocket server for millions of users
 
I mean... that is one common complaint about them, though
 
@khajvah hence your comment about scale earlier?
 
2:01 PM
@RobertGrant yeah
 
I was told that a research inside Google revealed that any sufficiently large Python codebase became bug-riddled at some point. Even those managed by the BDFL himself.
If that's the kind of scale we are talking about
 
user559633
@corvid it's a convenience wrapper (and online ecosystem) around linux containers
 
@Elazar nah, he is talking about performance.
 
ok
 
@khajvah "Everything, and nothing, is scalable"
 
2:02 PM
> The issue isn't websockets at all. The issue is that ruby itself is very slow and adding websockets on top of that slowness will make things even worse.
 
Just walk away :)
 
user559633
On a non-very high RAM/CPU box, I'm not sure that Python/Ruby can handle millions of concurrent sockets.
 
Ask them how many simultaneous clients Eve can have connecting to the same game world
 
they will never be webscale like us nodejs rockstars
5
 
user559633
@RobertGrant That's stackless python and across an infrastructure
 
2:05 PM
Yes, but still awesome
 
user559633
:|
 
user559633
that's not what we're talking about
 
Scale has many definitions, but by any definition, YouTube is a web site at scale. More than 1 billion unique visitors per month, over 100 hours of uploaded video per minute, and going on 20 pecent of peak Internet bandwidth, all with Python as a core technology. Dropbox, Disqus, Eventbrite, Reddit, Twilio, Instagram, Yelp, EVE Online, Second Life, and, yes, eBay and PayPal all have Python scaling stories that prove scale is more than just possible: it’s a pattern.
 
user559633
the common thing that gets parroted is "languages don't scale, architectures do", but it's way easier to scale a service that handles 10k concurrent vs 100.
 
Also see Myth #6: Python is slow
 
user559633
2:08 PM
But it is comparatively slow to compiled languages, and that's fine.
 
What I meant by the Eve thing was that even with infrastructure, other open world games can't even get close to what they do
And that's quite a good example for someone who comes along with a blunt "Python doesn't scale"
 
user559633
Oh, I'm kind of talking past the person that just shouts "python is slow"
 
I believe that saying "a language is slow" is meaningful - it means that the design of the language makes it much harder to write an efficient implementation. In that sense, Python is slower than C, and faster than R.
 
expect when it isn't
 
user559633
@Elazar agreed, to some extent. when talking apples-to-apples comparison of compiled/interpreted, i think of it in terms of "if i was to have 100 hours of experience in each and just wrote code without having to know optimizations/tricks, which would have a quicker runtime"
 
2:12 PM
...yeah I was about to say that too :)
 
user559633
i have no interest in someone debating someone that imagines he's going to write the Next Big Important Thing(tm) in assembly, so he calls Python/Ruby/Java bloated or slow
 
"My hand-crafted lazy evaluation code etched into a custom processor is faster than itertools" is not a useful statement
 
user559633
Yeah, and "well actually, if you use an FFI and run C in Python, it's faster than Node" isn't helpful either.
 
user559633
"I see your argument and choose to change its definition"
 
I use node for the same reason. Sure it has it's bad sides, but I can smash out code so quickly...
As a DS I can knock out a nice RESTful app so quickly compared to something like Java.
Sure it won't be up to an engineering standard, but that's not the purpose.
 
user559633
2:16 PM
Yep. And I code things in Python because very often, I just need something to work for a couple days, and I can get it working in a matter of hours.
 
@JGreenwell you might enjoy this
 
It starts with a guy holding a banana - that's a good sign
 
stares at a long list of ASP.NET HttpApplication methods to override, wondering which is the correct one
 
@RobertGrant Always go for the blue one.
 
@Ffisegydd: wait, what? Having no business sense makes you a good consultant?!
 
@MartijnPieters yeah you get shoved onsite and billed out
 
@Martijn presumably they mean the perfect "someone who can jump in and do whatever" rather than being specialised to a particular busioness
 
user559633
user image
5
 
user559633
2:24 PM
the synchronicity game is "on point" lately
 
well, now my comment makes no sense: I'm ether half-way between The Stats Prof and Comp Sci Prof (cause I teach both but at a lecturer or assistant lecturer position) or "Analyst" or "The Number Cruncher" - depends on job
 
Otherwise, great diagram!
 
@tristan People are looking at me now :)
 
@tristan too late, already added you.
 
user559633
well, my statistics are better
 
2:25 PM
That diagram looks like the rejects from Barney's Playbook in How I Met Your Mother
 
I'm should petition to have my official job title changed to "The Number Cruncher"
 
user559633
@RobertGrant lol if you overlay the hot/crazy matrix, it lines up pretty well
 
Curious to read what's involved in The Tristan
 
I'm perturbed by my proximity to "Head of IT"
 
Yeah same, except your stats will be much better than mine
 
user559633
2:30 PM
Well, it's a $10 ebook, 30% of its readers have seen increased productivity, it gets delivered reliably within 1 minute, its in EPUB format, and it uses Comic Sans as its font.
 
So tempted.
 
The font of the gods
'morning cabbage, folks
 
@Ffisegydd good article btw. Thanks
 
user559633
I have a Comic Sans font terminal that I use when pair programming
 
enrolls on preventitive stats course
 
2:31 PM
I like the comparison to doctors/specialists - makes a lot of sense.
 
Apparently it was created by a guy who was fed up with bad fonts for children. Massive fail.
 
user559633
I'm a child! I like bad fonts!
 
user559633
Papyrus, font for middle aged women that think it's a good idea to go into the high-end scented candle business.
 
I assume that in the context of candles, "high end" means "tall"
 
Once you learn how bad papyrus is, you see it everywhere
It's worse than comic sans
If you want to play with kerning, type.method.ac is a fun game
bezier.method.ac is great for bezier curves, if you like ---Illustrator---Inkscape
 
2:41 PM
no, no bringing up kerning - or will all be driven nuts by those little imperfections that we cannot stop seeing
 
Yeah - give me a mouse and some buttons, so I can be a proper click head
 
one of these days, I'm going to bring a lab coat and change into it whenever someone calls me a "Data Scientist"
bonus points if I'm wearing my "I'm going to try Science!" shirt
 
2:59 PM
Those some know here if there is a way to change the color of specific text in the Text widget in Tkinter?
 

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