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2 hours later…
03:07
@eyllanesc You forgot to add link ?
@Shree thanks
yw
@Makyen Please remove this post as it is incorrect.
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
@Maken Invalid request . Remove please. Mod flagged , and let's hope deleted soon.
PHD
PHD
03:20
Is Build.VERSION.SDK_INT constant expression? This is the question I posted, which has been tagged duplicate, but I do not think it is. Please take a look at it.
03:31
@Shree The request was actually valid. It was discussed here and here. The URRS says that it's not valid, because the request would not be valid for the second answer linked in the request. However, the request really isn't asking for the second answer to be deleted.
The URRS doesn't have the code to accurately determine when additional linked posts are not part of the request (would require natural language parsing, to an extent), except for cv-pls requests where a dup-target is linked, and a linked question is actually closed as a duplicate with that question as one of the dup-targets. Other than that special case, the scripts assume that all liked posts are part of the request.
Thanks for info.
 
2 hours later…
05:50
@AdrianMole Where did you have that reputation? Is there a corner of Stack I haven't been to?
06:21
notice also the linked proposed duplicate
I'm sorry, luncheon meat???
@BSMP Are you asking what is means or why smokey reported it?
@BSMP maybe code word for s-p-a-m
I don't know why it's avoiding that word, though.
@Scratte What it means. Is VLAZ right?
@VLAZ Maybe it's 1. A joke being a synonym. Or 2. doesn't want to say spam in case it's not.
06:35
So, googled and "luncheon meat" is what Spam is. but Spam is a brand.
@BSMP Given that spam is.. ohh.. what VLAZ said :)
I also like how smokey says it's mostly punctuation marks, since it's just one giant regex. It's not a terribly good answer without an explanation.
@BSMP this gets asked every few months, perhaps it should be in the room FAQ
@tripleee with a link to wikipedia? :)
@tripleee Oh, I feel bad, because I didn't check there!
06:40
@Scratte the meta question would be a good link meta.stackexchange.com/questions/332475/…
@tripleee That doesn't really answer the synonym thing..
I'm not sure what "The intent is to catch "hashes" left at the end of the post. It's FP prone." means exactly. FP? is that First Posts?
@Scratte false positives
That makes a lot more sense in context. I was also wondering.
A, smilwuao..
I submitted a comment on the meta answer and added a description in metasmoke metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/reason/143
@Scratte the what now?
06:53
@tripleee It was a joke for: Ahh, so much is lost when using abbreviations only..
sure (-:
I googled "smilwuao" and got a single result for something called "Archive number of all transactions on Forex market". I wasn't sure if you were speaking in tongues and tried to prophesise something about the stock market.
Alas, it seems you're still sane.
lol! That's the age of seeking information versus asking and getting told: You could have just searched for it :)
@tripleee now done socvr.org/faq#luncheonmeat /cc @BSMP
@rene > during a priod
shouldn't that be "period"?
07:02
also s/therefor/therefore/;s/Spam!./Spam!/;s/backstpry/backstory/
@rene also " down side" I believe that's one word.
s/best next/next best/
also english.stackexchange.com/questions/205815/… not sure what to make of the answers there
@tripleee mine is correct :D
other typos fixed
Yeah, I thought targetted was correct but after looking at that question I don't even know any more.
@VLAZ like regretted or submitted or postted? English is so confusing..
07:08
I don't think postted is correct. The others should be.
@rene thanks, let's hope this can at least somewhat stem the tide ...
But I expect somebody to prove me wrong.
The Brits should have never sold out to those at the other side of the ocean.
Then at least we would have one English, right? Right!
Maybe it's time for them to take back their land.
I expect the armada to set sail from Plymouth soon ...
07:11
there was a magnificent letter from the Queen back when they elected the latest evil clown
though I guess that's not exactly the one I read at the time, this was less funny
@VLAZ when I write targeted, the dictionary tells me it's right. When I write targetted it tells me it's wrong. But.. that's just my dictionary :) It also tells me colour is wrong, so sometimes I just rely on a rule, like double tt's on submitted. But the rule doesn't apply on postted, so basically.. English is so confusing.
@tripleee wow, that still mentions May ... that is decades ago ...
@rene the second one has David Cameron, I do believe it's less than decades since May resigned
@SmokeDetector my spellchecker accepts both. I don't really know what's correct any more.
...why did I tag smokey? I meant to tag @Scratte I can't edit the message any more.
@tripleee May stepped out before the crisis ...
@VLAZ Smokey will spell U correctly
07:19
A proper British lad, then.
Or is smokey a lass?
@tripleee Not liking the left side of the road thing.. everything else should have immediate effect :)
@VLAZ I think smokey is like the dust puppy. Above trivial things like gender.
08:05
@PHD FWIW I agree, and voted Leave Open in the original review. I've voted to reopen as well. Your question asks about the implementation of part of the Android SDK, which the dupe target doesn't address.
08:29
Hmm, did I mess up? Why wasn't the link auto formatted?
Ah, got it, it's a userscript...
PHD
PHD
@RyanM Thanks for your opinion.
@PHD Also I'm not sure if it notifies you (does it?) but your question has been reopened
PHD
PHD
@RyanM Yes, I just noticed.
(was that also a "yes" to "does it [notify you]?"?)
PHD
PHD
@RyanM I haven't received notification for reopen. I just refreshed my question.
 
1 hour later…
This laravel Question has been edited to include images. Does anyone know if it's on-topic?
\o
o/
Do Question-flags for closure ever get declined? I mean do they just age away if no one puts a close vote, but instead vote to leave open on the Question?
@Scratte if there's a Leave Open consensus in the CVQ, they are declined.
@Scratte I'll tidy it up. It's got an answer, so I think I would not close it, even if it has been written in a somewhat sloppy fashion.
09:58
@double-beep Ok. Thanks :)
I wonder how often the close-vote queue actually produces a "Leave Open" consensus
The odds are weighted rather heavily against producing that result
@RyanM Roughly as many times as we do not agree with someone's close request in this room.
This is the whole point. The queue is not called random questions review. The queue is meant to deal with questions other people flagged for closure.
Oh trust me, I'm well-aware of [the ratio of bad to good in that queue] (i.imgur.com/sgJK7Rt.png) (and that almost seems unusually leave open-happy)
but for instance, if I see a pending CV on a good question, I can't vote Leave Open on it the way I could vote either way on a suggested edit, unless I saw it from the queue
10:46
@RyanM That seems strange though. It's skewed toward a close then
10:58
^ Someone had fun compiling that profanity list :=)
@halfer Without looking at it, I'll go out on a limb and say that it probably has the Scunthorpe problem
@VLAZ It's a clbuttic mistake ;-)
xD
I looked at that naughty words list and...wow. I definitely learned new things. Like a vile new bad word: democratic socialism
@VLAZ Awful. Bring on the despotism.
Why use regex for a list of items? It would make sense to use regex to handle variants of the same word.
11:49
@SotiriosDelimanolis Once a question is to the point where there's been a close and a reopen, we normally view that as a conflict between users. As such, we generally feel its open/close state shouldn't be dealt with in requests here. Taking it to meta is a better option.
I should also note that you've previously submitted a cv-pls request for this question for this question. We don't permit re-requesting once a request has been handled. Actually, we only permit re-requesting a single time, if the request has been moved into the graveyard without the request being fulfilled. [We do also permit resubmitting a request which was erroneous for some reason, but an RO should be pinged to trash the original request.]
Ironically, your earlier request hadn't previously been archived, probably because the Archiver script wasn't run during the 2 hours 40 minutes the question was closed.
@Dharman It can, sometimes, be reasonable, depending on what's being done. In this case, the user is wanting to replace the content, so a regex may make it easier for them, but, given that what they actually have is a list of words, I'd probably agree that having what the programmer sees be an actual list is probably better, even if they then programmatically convert that to a regex. OTOH, they clearly aren't that familiar with regexes, so it's quite possible it's the wrong choice for them.
12:37
@Dharman Voted to delete the question. It's a poor dupe
@Machavity How? It wasn't closed.
I see you have closed it. Ok, then I can vote to delete the day after tomorrow.
@Dharman I didn't close it but I would have
Yeah, I think I should open the link before I jump to conclusions in chat. :D
@Dharman Just use your common sense :P
common sense? ugh
12:45
@AndrasDeak It's a pun, given who closed it
We have common sense here?
@Machavity ah! Reassuring :P
13:08
@rene We have uncommon sense in here. Which is why we are not out there
fair
13:52
when I'm not logged in, stackoverflow.com/questions/61935648 redirects to stackoverflow.com/questions/1800817. Should that happen?
@double-beep probably yes
Since when do Qs closed as duplicates auto redirect? that seems like very new behavior
since 2012: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/125220/… so 6 to 8 years ago ..
14:19
@rene How dare they sneak such a thing in so recently
@TylerH I thought it was nicely done. The one time it actually in context. lol
14:44
First post in the CV Queue for me today was a Haskell audit... how sleepy do you think I am, system?!
15:02
Looks like I'm E4net now.
If I answer a question that's self-deleted right after I answer it, is there anything I can do, or is that just life?
@Scratte Usually, it's just life. Undeleting it is possible, but should we?
@E_net4wantsmoredownvoters Lol. The hero we need. E_net4 the downvoter
15:20
E the what now?
@E_net4wantsmoredownvoters Depends on the answer perhaps? :)
@E_net4wantsmoredownvoters Your name just says E_net4 wants more.
@E_net4wantsmoredownvoters I love how voting is both the right and not the aim.
Why can't I hold all these limes mentions?
Also, I'm E4net, blame caching.
15:31
..and you're not even looking for more downvoters anymore :)
He found them. They were under the couch.
@Scratte If you feel your answer was of reasonable quality and the question isn't something that should be closed, you can bring it to Meta, or just custom mod-flag and explain. If you don't want to do either of those, you can take comfort in knowing that the question ban algorithm considers deleting a question immediately after getting an answer to be the worst thing a user can do. When that happens, it gives the user a heavy push towards a question ban.
@Scratte Or, you can ask a self answered question. :)
@Scratte I still want more of those, but they seem to get poked in question edits too often.
@Makyen Interesting. What's the odd that the flag will be declined in your best estimate? I'm guessing that the question/answer pair has to be pretty awesome and the deletion was just do fast that no one had a change to vote on it. Even if the answer is awesome, if the question is just "urgh", then perhaps the moderator will go "declined - flags should only be used to make moderators aware of content that requires their intervention" :)
@Braiam Thanks. I have a personal policy that would prevent that :)
15:51
@Scratte The system doesn't permit the question author to delete a question if the question has more than one non-deleted answer or any answer with an upvote (probably also has to be non-deleted, but I haven't seen that stated). My expectation would be that the flag should only be declined if the question was one which shouldn't have been answered (i.e. it should have been closed), or if the answer was obviously one which was likely to only receive downvotes. But, that's just my expectation.
@Makyen I wasn't aware of the two answers rule for deletion. I expect votes on those are not considered in the ability to self-delete a Question then? But my scenario was a Question where the author just waits until there's an answer on it and immediately deletes the Question. Surely it's sort of just gaming the system.
@Makyen yes it has to be non-deleted
@Scratte Yes this is a common scenario that has been railed against multiple times on Meta. If you suspect real unfairness you could mod flag explaining the issue
or a pattern
@TylerH Thanks :) It's not really a pattern. I almost only see it from 1-rep users with no other Questions.
@Scratte Yes, votes on the multiple answers are not considered. Deleting a question after it's been answered is considered to be quite rude and self-centered. The point of Stack Exchange is to collect a body of questions and answers which are helpful to future visitors. Users who delete questions immediately after they are answered are considered to be doing something that's opposed to that goal, and to have intentionally wasted the time of the answerer, and probably many other people.
@Scratte If it is a pattern, it's unlikely to be seen by normal users, unless the user posts questions in the same/similar tags relatively rapidly, or has a quite noticeable username or question style.
@Makyen ..and if they have a habit of doing it, they'll have no other Questions. Until they get a Question ban and create a new account.
16:11
I simply flagged as spam due to no disclosure of affiliation on that one
16:27
@TylerH It was deleted and the user deleted/destroyed. Interestingly, it looks like the answer which was plagiarized has either been plagiarized before, or is plagiarized/derivative of something else.
Hi ROs, would someone delete my "Needs Clarity (no code)" above please. The OP has edited some code into the question, and while I am not certain it is a good attempt, I will give the benefit of the doubt. I've withdrawn my own vote. Thanks.
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
@halfer Hi ... yw ...
16:43
Tanks in advanced
lol
:)
Fortunately, there is a history page for each message. :)
@E4netisheretodownvote The advanced tanks are shooting please-halp begging all over my lawn
@halfer The tanks are in advantage.
@E4netisheretodownvote And soldiers are exiting the tanks and are lobbing i-am-a-fresher-so-i-appreciate-your-help grenades, destroying English conditionals in the process.
16:57
@halfer Wouldn't be surprised to see another rain of pity upvotes.
I've seen a few user profiles that explain we shouldn't be downvoting newcomers, grr
OH YES WE SHOULD
I really hate when an answer ends with "It will help you." Hope is dead...
They should learn how to participate and stop spreading misinformation. :<
@halfer No, we shouldn't. We should be downvoting bad content, regardless of who the user is.
17:00
@Makyen That's wot I said, diddle I? :=)
BTW I really mean it. People do put that at the end of the answers. stackoverflow.com/posts/45932081/revisions
I keep meaning to add a few answers with "hope this doesn't help" added casually at the end.
@halfer I think I have one answer that starts with something along the lines of "you shouldn't be using this but it's here for reference only"
That is actually quite common in PHP world. Here is the answer... and at the end Do not use this.
@halfer I'm sure you meant it, but it's probably one of the fundamental differences between Stack Exchange and other places, so it really should be emphasized. I consider it quite likely that the primary reason that SO has a reputation of being unwelcoming is that people take downvotes and closure personally.
While it is difficult to get people who received downvotes, or have their question closed, to understand that it's not personal, it's something that should be explained to them in crystal clear terms, very prominently, the first few times they get that type of response.
Don't get me wrong, there are comments made which are rude/abusive/unwelcoming, and it's good that such have been reduced (and continue to be worked on), but such comments are, and probably always have been, far less common than the prevalence of people feeling that SO is "unwelcoming".
17:16
People are not used to getting feedback in their lives.
@Makyen The thing is that making oneself understandable in words and in writing is a learned skill. I think it takes more than 10 posts to get it right, if one doesn't have at least some of it be begin with. So it's likely the same users that get their Questions closed and their content downvoted (not that that doesn't happen to skilled writers too). This probably makes it feel even more like SO is being harsh and unwelcoming.
It's not about the writing skill. It's about what the question is. We can edit it to make it better, but we can't answer it if it is unclear, lacks the code or is off-topic. Even if the question is written really well there's no way to know if it will be popular.
You're right that writing skill isn't strictly necessary. Maybe I'm confusing it with trying to understand what needs to be included for others to understand it too. So I don't really mean novel-writing skills, I mean make-myself-understandable writing skills :)
@Dharman Even worse is "hope it helps"
Why is it worse?
17:26
because they're not even sure it will help, and it's just as superfluous as 'it will/should help'
obviously the answerer hopes it helps, otherwise why bother posting the answer? Is it a trick to sabotage OP's efforts? unlikely
at least "this will help you" is sure of itself
But at least it is courteous. Telling people that this solution will work for them is presumptuous.
Eh, I prefer confidence to uncertainty
either way, they're both noise and should be edited out
@AndyK It kinda is related to programming.
@Scratte Yes, writing is a learned skill. So is asking an answerable question. Many people don't understand what's necessary to include (and what not to include) when asking a question (here, or in general) until they start trying to answer questions.
@Dharman imo, the question should be directed to SoundCloud. Did he state he was encountering some kind of issue of programming issue when using the API?
17:35
@AndyK Yes, using an API is programming
It's one of these grey areas for me. API is under the programming umbrella. Not every question related to the API is on-topic here, but I have nothing against the question you linked. They are asking why the API they are using is not working anymore how it used to. This fits into the guidelines in my opinion.
@Dharman ok, then I can recast my phrasing to "should be directed to SoundCloud" ? That is my point.
OP is not asking something generic to API programming here
There is one user who knows the answer it seems. I can't say if it is correct or not, but someone on Stack Overflow knew what they are talking about.
it is related to SoundCloud way of working. Am I mistaken? I can be but I don't think so
@Braiam What is the need for a new tag?
17:39
@Dharman I got your point although it is weird
API endpoints not working are programming issues; also I agree, the soundcloud tag seemed sufficient
@TylerH I did not see the tag... allrite.
@gnat what means roomba?
@AndyK automatic deletion. See stackoverflow.com/help/roomba
Waffles™ (ninja'd again) :)
it is one of those days
17:44
@Dharman ty
@Makyen Well.. I've encountered a few answers to questions that was not in an answerable state :)
@Dharman It's the soundcloud-api, not the site.\
@Braiam I don't think anyone asks questions about the website on Stack Overflow. This tag is only for Soundcloud API
@Dharman Oh sweet summer child, I've seen questions about pigs on the site ;)
People posts questions on any text box they find online (paraphrasing Shog), and having a proper tag is one of the hopes that people don't post questions like this
Also, soundcloud has two different products, soundcloud api and soundcloud widget, both of which are very different.
18:04
Then it sounds like this is a good topic to ask on Meta. Let more people voice their opinions if we need another tag.
@Dharman I've suggested that, but recently was declined without comment meta.stackoverflow.com/q/280952/792066
@Braiam If there are two things that it could, legitimately, mean, then declining just a rename to one of them is reasonable. What would be needed is a full burnination to separate out the posts into the two new tags, and close those that are off-topic.
I think perhaps "create tags" should be moved to 7500 reputation points.
@Scratte Why? I see no reason to do that.
18:20
@Dharman It seems that a lot of tags goes though being removed.
and it's a lot of work too
18:30
I feel like there should be more friction to actually creating a tag. Right now it's too easy and some people can create one without even meaning to. I almost did it a few times.
@Braiam Can one ask a Stack Overflow question to order a bacon sandwich? Maybe there is an easter-egg triggered in the editor.
I would hope for a proper wizard UI, to explore a full range of bread, bacon, button and sauce options.
@halfer I'd be surprised if there wasn't an app which allows you to order a bacon sandwich about which you could ask. :)
@Makyen yeah, that kind of grind was what I was trying to prevent when I proposed that in '14 :)
@Braiam At the time, it was probably a good idea. When it was declined in 2019, the opportunity was likely well past.
@Makyen Ooh, a bacon sandwich API. I hope it has a fully featured OpenAPI documentation :-)
18:47
Are questions about boolean algebra on topic? Actual algebra, as in maths, not when part of an if statement or similar?
@VLAZ I generally say no
We do have the tag and questions on maths tend to show up fairly frequently. A comment on this question did say it wasn't on topic, so it got me wondering.
@VLAZ that question is not. It has nothing to do with boolean whatsoever in a programming context.
I'll be keeping a closer watch for those, in that case. Thanks for clarifying.
Do edits from Help & Improvement leave a comment by you with the same text as your edit revision summary?
18:56
@TylerH Yep
@Braiam that's horrible
2
@TylerH That's why I've always seen a small tutorial on how the system behaves when you try new things a good thing.
On games, I like that I'm given hints or basically left to my own devices discovering things, but SO is not a game :)
@Braiam you sure? There is all this gamification here. How much more do we need to qualify as a game?
19:06
@Braiam I came across a person who left a comment that seemed to describe an edit they made, and checked the revision history. Sure enough, they left the exact same text as the edit summary
so I replied to the comment saying they didn't need to do that
then they just responded and told me it's from H&I
At least from the LQP review queue it posts a link saying "from review"
but in this case there's really no point to even post the edit summary as a comment
xkcd 927 is relevant yet again, re: new blog post
@VLAZ That people actually pay for playing :D
WIth all its faults, SO is a AAA MMO with tons of competitions every day
@Braiam so, would Teams count as paying? :P
@VLAZ Those are the ones going with the pay for win tier... those guys have it easier. The real rumble is on the free for all one
@halfer Well, there's APIs for vending machines (multiple, various), a long history of food-related things connected to computers (CMU coke machine, 1970), and apps for ordering food (from at least 1990: pizzatool, 1990), so a bacon sandwich API isn't all that farfetched. :)
Do highly upvoted questions automatically get put in the reopen queue when they're closed? Just come across this in the reopen queue, but it hasn't been edited and doesn't appear to have any reopen votes.
19:18
@DavidBuck Yes
BTW, both of my "yes" answer you can blame Shog for that :D
Fair enough. I assumed it was to get some additional scrutiny of the close decision.
@HovercraftFullOfEels how's that a tool recommendation?
@JohnDvorak the question boils down to "should I use this tool or change to another one"
@JohnDvorak I read that as an anti recommendation.
@VLAZ even so, it doesn't ask which one they should switch to.
Voted POB
19:27
I'd say both apply.
I think that whichever reason you choose, it is a "Bad Question"™
@HovercraftFullOfEels New official close reason ;-)
Maybe we need an "I'm feeling lucky" close vote button that just picks a reason at random. Saves you the hassle of thinking which one applies the most.
10
let's call the button "what is this I don't even"
or "WTF" for short
@JohnDvorak Let's have a "Not Even Wrong" button
20:12
Is this off-topic? stackoverflow.com/questions/61948361/… Maybe "too broad"? It's technically answerable.
@NobodyNada-ReinstateMonica Ah good shout, I forgot about that
 
3 hours later…
23:25
Sigh... is still a thing...
@Braiam Yeah it is. It's actually doing pretty well. Plenty of questions.
I'm seriously hoping that you are being sarcastic.
I hate the tag. I really think we should burninate but it is so popular. There's a lot of new questions asked everyday and most should be closed.

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