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user3956566
7:00 AM
The only good thing about getting older is the wisdom of experience that comes with it.
 
user4842163
@MsYvette My industry is weird (visual FX for film, games, architecture, etc) -- because the software is so complex (ex: AutoDesk Maya, one of our competitors). So the prevalent thinking is that the software is complex because the engineers don't know any better, so we're often lead by artists rather than people with any sort of engineering background. And then the results get even worse because the workflow issues are stemming from engineering rather than a lack of user-end understanding.
 
user4842163
@MsYvette And then with the workflows getting worse, the artists leading the team get fired in favor of better artists with the users and company thinking the artists themselves didn't understand users, and the problem just has this kind of domino effect. :-D
 
user3956566
@Ike trust me when I tell you this.. when it comes to business, often ($>sense) and marketing and design is frequently at odds with engineers. Often there are too many chiefs and not enough indians.. I prefer to work for myself
 
user3956566
@Ike yep. and then company mergers or take overs cause similar issues
 
user4842163
@MsYvette I'm exploring that route lately -- in between jobs but thinking of just trying to become an independent developer.
 
user3956566
7:05 AM
@Ike my late husband and I were in business, and now I contract. I will never be an employee of anyone. Life is too short
 
user4842163
@MsYvette Ended up quitting that one recently (software called LightWave)... was just getting two much -- 5 different bosses over 10 years, 3 or more managers, and lots of stress.
 
user4842163
Awesome! I'm thinking it's feasible now with all these online stores.
 
Hello @MsYvette @Ike We're going off-topic here, I'd like you to get on rail again
 
user3956566
In IT especially most clients do not know the difference between what they want or need and at the beginning of projects, most typically, there is more flexibility until spec changes cause costs to build up and then it becomes a train wreck
 
user4842163
@Tushar My bad -- we're chatty. :-D
 
user3956566
7:07 AM
ok, one of the room owners can trash this hey
 
user3956566
I didn't think it was a prob, cos no one else was talking at all, thanks for the heads up @Tushar
 
@Closey starting
 
@Tushar Happy reviewing!
 
user4842163
I've only been participating here in helping cast close-votes for questions that are definitely off-topic -- haven't made any cv requests. Should I make them when I spot a horrible Q?
 
@Ike Yes, definitely, that's what this room is for
 
user3956566
7:11 AM
@Ike if it's a little used tag, or there is a high chance of fgitw if it's not closed quickly
 
user3956566
they frown upon too many of them
 
user4842163
@Tushar Cool -- I've been more of a spectator and vote caster rather than the most active participant. My interest here originally was just kind of better understanding how the site content is like, and the mindset of those who review it all the time.
 
user3956566
@Ike please stay, you're a great asset here
 
^^^
 
user4842163
think I can definitely point out some horrid C and C++ Qs :-D
 
7:13 AM
@Ike the "mindset"? They're just all crazy people :p
 
user3956566
@JonClements hey I'm 6 flags off my marshal badge hm shouldn't have told Jon he will reject flags
 
Congrats! Hasn't taken you that long either since you started flagging?
 
user4842163
@JonClements I feel like I'm going crazy looking at some of these Qs already. :-D But lately I'm trying to broaden my view -- every side of the site from those who moderate a lot to those who question a lot to those answer a lot have different ways of looking at things -- and trying to understand all those viewpoints.
 
@Ike you've taken on quite a challenge there then!
 
user3956566
@JonClements I've been here in this incarnation for over a year.. maybe 6 months as a more active user?
 
7:16 AM
@MsYvette umm... wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey and all that...
 
user3956566
@JonClements yes, but I am the new improved version :D I spoke to Tim P about that.. can't mention it here of course.. you may know.. yes thankfully much, much better!
 
user4842163
Here is one I'm tempted to close, but might need a second opinion: stackoverflow.com/questions/34326084/…
 
user4842163
His immediate issue was a syntax error in accessing a pointer member for a struct. But in the comments he indicates he has even more.
 
user4842163
So it's starting to get quite vague.
 
user3956566
@Ike it's got a few votes on it now
 
user4842163
7:20 AM
I ended up voting as lacking an MCVE, since this was turning into those error after error issues where the author just wants someone to guide him through it all and his code snippet doesn't reveal all of the problems.
 
user4842163
Lacks MCVE: snippet far from minimal, and wanting too much in return -- stackoverflow.com/questions/34327746/…
 
user4842163
argh
 
user4842163
NM -- maybe I made a bad call... Joachim spotted an issue there wonderfully
 
@Closey end session
 
@Tushar I have forcefully ended your last session. To see more details use the command last session stats. In addition, the number of review items is most likely not set, use the command last session edit count <new count> to fix that.
 
7:25 AM
@Sam Nice :)
 
user4842163
Hmm -- he kind of did a mind-read there -- spotting an issue that wasn't in the code.
 
user4842163
Hmm -- I'm bad at this. :-D I'm wrong there -- Joachim did spot a basic issue in the code -- just far from an MCVE, and the question seemed like there was way more to it that the op wanted.
 
user4842163
@Drew Aye, I made a mistake there thinking it'd be impossible to deduce a perfect solution from the code and question asked.
 
wow that's a news flash. Most Q's are terribly malformed
 
user4842163
I get red flags when I spot those kinds of, "Here's my code, what's wrong with it?" -- not exactly MCVE, and combined with a question that states a goal rather than a problem.
 
user4842163
7:32 AM
But I should have digested the code more carefully -- turned out to be a simple issue in failing to run the thread.
 
user4842163
I'll try to be a little more careful -- my bad.. still an apprentice here.
 
user4842163
"The world must use UpperCamelCase!" :-D
 
user4842163
I put a third down-vote there so that he can at least get a chance to get peer pressure. :-D
 
I think that Q and A could use some work
 
@Ike { "camelcase": true, "newcap": true } .jshintrc musts!
 
7:38 AM
@Ike Well, that's just plain wrong. We need more underscores.
 
user4842163
maybe the author of the Q
 
user3956566
@AlexanderO'Mara unlikely to be anyone here
 
Is it wrong to toggle the down-vote to make it cost rep...
Eh, deleted now anyway.
 
7:40 AM
@Drew User blacklisted (5687557 on stackoverflow.com).
 
@AlexanderO'Mara Wow - your picture couldn't be more ideal for the batman hat if you tried :p
 
@JonClements Yeah, it fits pretty nice!
 
have to say I'm jealous :)
 
I was born to be Batman!
 
One doesn't become Batman - one is born Batman!
 
user3956566
7:42 AM
@JonClements says the ninja furry animal
 
user3956566
^^ the offtopic android questions tend to be answered quickly and closed slowly
 
user4842163
Voted to close -- I think that one could also get an MCVE close just as easily. There's a big difference between "not too much code" and "minimal code".
 
user3956566
@Ike I actually really do not understand what the OP wants. Even with the code
 
user4842163
@MsYvette Yeah... "Here's my code, and it's not working."
 
user3956566
@Drew I've already made a comment on that post. stackoverflow.com/questions/34329137/…
 
user4842163
7:49 AM
Oh hmm, he's making attempts to edit it at least -- seems like we at least have an earnest type.
 
yeah I know
but you won't get it closed
 
Morning o/
 
user4842163
Can I request to close-vote one of my own questions? :-D
 
user4842163
I asked one that was so embarrassing.
 
user4842163
argh -- it's a joke.. I have to keep it there -- a reminder -- because someone took the time to answer it.
 
7:57 AM
which one
 
user4842163
I asked a question which was so basic and turned out to just be a simple thing I misunderstood from the documentation.
 
user4842163
just embarrassed about it always
 
user3956566
\o @Thaillie
 
just so you know, that is not something we do, cuz the guy answered it. It was accepted (not that you can't unaccept it). But that is above our pay-grade. And the community would wonder: Is it something that can help someone else
 
user4842163
8:02 AM
yeah -- just a totally selfish thing... every time I sift through my old stuff, that one is embarrassing... but it's probably good to have it on my record, a reminder to me to be more careful before I ask
 
user3956566
@Ike I have a couple of those and I had a brain spasm, what I call code dyslexia, where I reversed how if comparisons should be done.
 
user4842163
@MsYvette I had one other one that I was glad to see duplicated -- it turned out to be a really basic question about the way the comma operator works in C and C++. So fortunately it got closed before it was answered.
 
user3956566
@Ike that's good
 
user3956566
@AlexanderO'Mara I was jsut about to post that here! I think so
 
8:06 AM
omg
 
user3956566
how do I make smokey aware of it
 
(not sure if I can though)
 
user3956566
@AlexanderO'Mara thanks
 
!!/alive
 
8:07 AM
@Thaillie You doubt me?
 
user4842163
@MsYvette Maybe broad more? I must admit I like that question... being formerly a game dev -- but an answer would be pretty freaking broad, explaining how to do parallax between foreground and background elements.
 
@AlexanderO'Mara You can check it with !!/amiprivileged
 
user3956566
@Ike k
 
@Drew User blacklisted (5689824 on stackoverflow.com).
 
8:09 AM
!!/amiprivileged
 
@AlexanderO'Mara No, you are not a privileged user.
 
(as I expected)
I wasn't sure if the report command required privileges though.
 
user3956566
2 flags to go for my marshal badge!
 
user4842163
hardcore! I think I'm working my way towards tumbleweed
 
8:11 AM
@MsYvette 45 here.
 
user3956566
@AlexanderO'Mara it takes forever, if you want a good flag rating
 
user3956566
@Ike I posted a question about woo commerce and got the tumbleweed
 
I posted a question once and someone gave an answer >:( didn't get tumbleweed badge
 
user4842163
I don't quite understand what kind of behavior these badges are intended to promote. :-D
 
user3956566
@TimCastelijns erm Tim, don't mean to be rude, but isn't that a good thing LOL
 
user4842163
8:14 AM
like tumbleweed, peer pressure makes a bit more sense if you can get it accidentally
 
@MsYvette Looks like a moderator ruled it spam: stackoverflow.com/questions/34329460/…
They're getting tricky.
 
user3956566
@AlexanderO'Mara my spam flag was approved, so maybe enough people flagged it as spam
 
@MsYvette " deleted by Alexander O'Mara, Flexo♦ 4 mins ago "
 
user3956566
@AlexanderO'Mara ah I can't see that ;)
 
@MsYvette I suppose that doesn't mean the moderator marked it spam, they just deleted it.
 
user3956566
8:15 AM
please God give me strength stackoverflow.com/questions/34329634/…
 
user3956566
@AlexanderO'Mara not sure ...
 
@Alexander deleting something that's marked as spam and a moderator applying a spam flag themselves have different consequences :)
 
user3956566
@JonClements and they are?
 
user3956566
1 more helpful flag to go! come on smokey bring it!
 
@MsYvette here ya go: stackoverflow.com/a/34329687 NAA
 
user3956566
8:19 AM
Now surely there is a duplicate for this stackoverflow.com/questions/34329616/…
 
user4842163
does this marshal badge do anything? Is it mainly for show?
 
how do i retract that? its not spam
sd abort mission
 
user3956566
@Drew I heart you Drew sniff
 
@Ike During this winter bash, it gives you the gold badge to get a hat.
 
8:20 AM
@TimCastelijns Can't retract it I think, maybe sd gone removes it everywhere
 
user3956566
@Drew pst we not supposed to ask for piling here Drew
 
@Ike That's generally what badges are for - except gold badges in tags which gives you a dupehammer :)
 
user3956566
@TimCastelijns the user can be removed from the black list
 
user4842163
@JonClements Ah I see. But it's nice to have a flashy gold thing next to your name.
 
8:21 AM
@Ike yeah... shiny things are cool!
 
@Drew User is blacklisted. (5531951 on stackoverflow.com).
 
@Drew User removed from blacklist (5531951 on stackoverflow.com).
 
Thanks
 
user3956566
8:29 AM
^^ it's receiving a lot of attention, I'm scared it's going to be answered
 
@MsYvette Just saw an upvote on it, so it is definitely going to get an answer
 
user3956566
@Tushar exactly! what I thought also!
 
Doubt it, unless grace period
 
well grace
 
@Tushar Only if they do it before the grace period runs out.
 
8:31 AM
I am in the middle of an answer right now
 
@AlexanderO'Mara Right, Batman
 
user3956566
I meant before it was put on hold.. don't tell me answers can be written after a question is put on hold?
 
@MsYvette For a limited time.
 
They can if the person started to write the answer before it was put on hold, and if he submits it before the grace period ends
 
user3956566
how long is the grace?
 
8:32 AM
Couple of minutes I believe (5?)
 
user3956566
@TimCastelijns that is 5 minutes too many
 
Is it really that long?
 
user3956566
And fully boxed
 
user3956566
err what an anti climax, not box. Thank you @JonClements ... ermm I mean all mods ..
 
user4842163
8:34 AM
nice badge!
 
user3956566
@Ike ;) yep, I'm the marshal now.. in John Wayne voice
 
user3956566
@Drew how the dickens did you interpret that from the original question? stackoverflow.com/posts/34329701/revisions
 
comments
 
user3956566
ah comments
 
@AlexanderO'Mara I can only find one description of grace period and that says The grace period, or "the ninja edit zone," is a five minute period from the start of an edit to the end timestamp. however that is for the on MSO and it seems to mainly talk about editing posts and not submitting answers
 
8:38 AM
@TimCastelijns Same here, although I thought I read somewhere it's 1 minute.
 
It's 5 minutes. If someone apart from the original poster/editor makes a further, it ends that grace period and restarts another
 
user4842163
What do you guys do with this? The answer is a simple "yes". stackoverflow.com/questions/34328999/…
 
@JonClements So it's the same as the edits grace period? We're talking about the answer-after-closed one.
 
user4842163
Oh, 3 votes as unclear... but I think the question is clear.. "Q: Can I make a new file format? A: Yes if you want."
 
@Ike yes. But put lipstick on that pig
 
8:40 AM
@Ike "yes" can be a valid answer
 
Oh - those can be up to 15 minutes... depends if some of the validation checks succeed or not :)
 
@Ike we got your 6 on this one. I am excited.
 
It's been known an answer being posted to a closed question nearly 2 hours later - but that was a bug and the user deliberately exploited it
 
user4842163
@Drew Oh sorry, what's a "6"?
 
not sure how to answer that
just write your best Yes answer
 
user4842163
8:42 AM
slang expression?
 
user4842163
oh, I wouldn't answer that! Maybe in a comment.
 
user4842163
lately I'm sticking to a policy of not answering questions I can answer in like 10 seconds
 
user4842163
instead commenting in those cases
 
user4842163
I was just wondering what to do with those types of Qs -- if they're really OT.. people voted as unclear -- I thought it was pretty clear.
 
dang. I was excited about badgering you about mime-type implications
 
8:46 AM
Jon, the guy who is green yet also blue,
told us a story about SO's internal engine gears.
The grace period can be up to 15 min, it appears
Who knew.
 
hey. is there a particular reason how this gets eight upvotes and my too broad flag gets declined? (excepts said eight upvotes) stackoverflow.com/questions/34282173/…
 
user4842163
In a proprietary context? I think that Q was also very specific to his application -- not intended to be an interchangeable format.
 
user4842163
though we could write like an elaborately detailed write up about the implications :-D
 
user4842163
tend to see it as a risk with questions which are being down-voted to death though.. people tend to down-vote to discourage answers in those cases
 
you talking to me Ike?
 
user3956566
8:48 AM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier we don't handle flags here, but I think the question is not too broad
 
user4842163
oh sorry, was addressing Drew.
 
user3956566
@FélixGagnon-Grenier To me it is unclear
 
thanks @MsYvette, though this is the so close vote place right? this question should be closed, whatever the flag is
 
user3956566
@FélixGagnon-Grenier if 5 users or a user with a gold badge in the tag agree then yes, and it looks like it will be closed.
 
8:50 AM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I think that Question on push-notif has wildly exciting mass appeal to people here
a Gold badge can't close that without a dupe
 
user3956566
@FélixGagnon-Grenier it has 4 close votes and is receiving downvotes.
 
oh nice. that much I did not see.
 
Gold badge only has super powers if the question is VTC as duplicate
 
user3956566
Interestingly I link a php question in here earlier that was rampant with upvotes and I just did not understand why, as I also do not understand why this linked question is so upvoted
 
I guess the flag was rightly declined then. though I would actually challenge anyone to phrase the question clearly in one sentence without implying an explanation on everything that's concerned
 
user3956566
8:51 AM
@Drew I think it's the "php" induced dyslexia
 
I think it is massively too broad
 
user3956566
@FélixGagnon-Grenier it may have been edited since you flagged it, it's had 8 edits
 
User says "I'm stuck", but doesn't say what he's stuck on -> Unclear
 
sd gone2
 
user3956566
8:53 AM
 
user3956566
@TimCastelijns exactly
 
please tell me that the 8k user who edited the question, twice, at least voted to close
 
user3956566
@FélixGagnon-Grenier if it is closed you will see who voted on it, apart from that voting is private (except for review queues)
 
I know... that's why I'm asking you guys :p
in any event, that was a late night jab at doing something useful. thanks for the time and sorry for disturbing your normal activities. cheers.
 
user3956566
@FélixGagnon-Grenier we can't see who has voted :)
 
8:58 AM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier cya, be sure to come back in the morning :)
 
user3956566
@FélixGagnon-Grenier you're not disturbing us, we're quite disturbed already :D.. and welcome back any time
2
 
user3956566
0
Q: Can we have a code only reason for deletion?

Ms YvetteA discussion for a possible feature request: For code only answers can we please have a code only reason for deletion? And if so, how do we word it?

 
@MsYvette I've seen at least 4 questions like that ... not my downvote.
Plop everyone!
 
Hello Kevin o/
 
9:09 AM
I thought we agreed you had to choose between Meta and here :P
 
@MsYvette the lack of research on your part is worrisome :P
 
It's becoming a full time job rescuing you!
 
@cybermonkey I think we don't need repeat that again.
 
not funny @cybermonkey
 
Hyia \o/
 
9:18 AM
Hey
 
user4842163
@MsYvette I think the difficulty with contesting code-only is that they might, very often, be horrible answers... but check out this one: stackoverflow.com/questions/34314989/declaring-a-variable-in-c/…
 
user4842163
@MsYvette Tricky thing is how a community might respond to that exemplary answer with a flag option.
 
what is wrong with our current system?
 
<s>tricky</s> scary
 
@Ike About that, I'd say he wrote the explanation inside the code.
 
user3956566
9:21 AM
yikes I was offline for a minute.. lol
 
user4842163
@KevinGuan Very much so -- but code-only might get interpreted by a small portion of the community to include that -- it only takes the tiniest group of random bystanders to flag it and destroy it.
 
I litter my code with comments
@Ike it is not only code-only that would get up down going the wrong way, it is the whole lot of people that don't understand code that we are allowing to be the judges
 
@Ike Well, I wouldn't say that it's code-only. It's code-only in format, but not code-only in content.
 
I don't know what you guys are talking about but I answered a question about code-only answers with comments on Meta recently and it was well received
 
not accepted answer - must be wrong!
 
9:28 AM
how did that answer get any upvotes !
 
user3956566
 
user3956566
^^ please note it is not a dupe as I'm asking why?
 
Answered in comment
 
user3956566
@TimCastelijns replied
 
user3956566
@Drew which one?
 
9:43 AM
:27597703 gone
 
user3956566
@DavidG good to see you
 
Morning!
 
Hello David o/
 
user3956566
Ok my next question in the trilogy will be:
**Do we need a hat of shame?**
 
Hi \o
 
9:44 AM
Hi /o
 
\☺/
 
I've raised up the stack @DavidG by the way for your long input for Day 10. Try 55 iterations :D
 
Only 55?
 
15 hours ago, by Tunaki
But now, TADA, how long does it take for 55 iterations? :D My code has 663334346 in 212 seconds
It grows up exponentially
 
That's what makes it fun :)
 
user3956566
9:47 AM
anyone help me find out how NAA and low Quality flags are handled?
 
@MsYvette When mods reviewed it.
 
I'm pretty sure I got it right, but never 100% sure
 
@MsYvette what do you mean?
 
user4842163
Oh sorry, had to go AFK for a bit while in the middle of that code-only answer thought! I was thinking though, VLQ answers, provided that they aren't blatantly OT, aren't so bad, no? Since an answer is kind of a child of a question as a parent -- I think we should allow a lot more leeway in terms of answers. They can't pollute the site quite as much/blatantly as the questions. I think the only bad part is that answers can sometimes lock and draw attention to poor questions.
 
user3956566
 
9:49 AM
@Tunaki @DavidG Could someone explain day 17 part 1? I don't really understand that one :p
 
@Thaillie find all possible combinations of containers that add up to 150 liters
 
How many combinations of containers can store all 150 litres
 
user4842163
I thought low-quality answers were often auto-botted as well -- based on length/content.. probably terse code-only answers would tend to raise warning signs based on the length
 
So you could have 150x1 litre containers or 1 single 150 litre container
 
@MsYvette The way I think it works is the following: Users flag answers are VLQ/NAA. The posts goes into the LQ queue and mods are warned. Then, both actions live their life: the post can be deleted by the queue or it can be deleted by a mod
 
9:51 AM
But there are only containers of size 20, 15, 10, 5
 
Well, it's a little strange that 5 is mentioned twice :p "For example, suppose you have containers of size 20, 15, 10, 5, and 5 liters."
 
user3956566
@Tunaki how can they be declined?
 
@Thaillie That's a good point
 
@MsYvette They can only be declined by a moderator. If the queue handle it, the flag will get disputed if enough people clicked 'Looks OK"
 
That's why I didn't really understand it :p
 
@Tunaki agree
 
@Thaillie consider it a typo
 
user3956566
holy toledo, I know nothing...
 
0
A: Why are code only answers in the low quality review queue, if they should not be deleted?

Oleg V. VolkovCode-only answers is not a reason for deletion, but still a reason for improvement. They are in low quality queue because it is strongly suggested that they're should be improved with additional explanation.

 
that answer is wrong
 
9:55 AM
So this answer maybe is correct: VLQ queue isn't only for delete posts, also we improve them there.
 
user3956566
@TimCastelijns I need to reverse my downvote, I need you to edit
 
VLQ flag means = this post is shit, it cannot be salvaged, delete it
 
user3956566
oh and apologies for using bunk but I thought the word sounded really funny :D
 
9:57 AM
Np I disagreed with you so I didn't really care how you said it
 
user3956566
@TimCastelijns I really want to star this, but it just won't look good for our room'
 
user3956566
@TimCastelijns but I was wrong
 
brb meeting
 
@DavidG good luck
 
> This question has severe formatting or content problems. This question is unlikely to be salvageable through editing, and might need to be removed.
unlikely to be salvageable through editing <--- Okay fair enough.
 
user3956566
9:59 AM
@DavidG bye sniff such an emotional parting
 

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