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01:00 - 07:0011:00 - 22:00

11:02 AM
@Zoeisonstrike That was about damn time. :D
Oh, not more than that. Anyway.
 
 
2 hours later…
12:42 PM
Wait, what. Discussions apparently "thread" replies, but only one level deep? What's the point?
 
1:03 PM
@KarlKnechtel It's like Reddit but not. It's the worse of both the Reddit and SO platforms.
 
@KarlKnechtel it actually can thread more levels from what the SG developers (The nesting comments in discussions are basically copied from SG) had mentioned, they've limited it to one level to begin with.
 
... is it possible for me to actually see SG at the moment?
I kinda feel like I should revise my post about it keeping in mind what it currently actually does :/
 
Hmm, you could try asking them to provide you access. Users part of the beta still have access.
Its just that there's no new questions coming in to it.
 
1:19 PM
@VLAZ SO took the idea from other platforms, shoved it onto a platform where the idea of discussions is contradictory to the main goal, and did it in a mediocre implementation
 
I mean, I don't actually think it's contradictory. it's orthogonal, which is a problem when you try to put it in the exact same space. done well, it can be complementary (even if redundant with other places that do discussions)
 
 
1 hour later…
2:42 PM
0
Q: Bug: Adding additional originals on a duplicate is impossible on iPhone

Basil BourqueThe dialog box for adding more URLs to the list of originals on a duplicate Question is much too wide on an iPhone. It is physically impossible to complete that dialog box. Such is the case in both portrait and landscape positions of the phone. This has been true for months, if not years.

 
@KarlKnechtel I was also unimpressed.
@AbdulAzizBarkat It's released. stackoverflow.com/staging-ground. you don't need to request access. it's just that there's nothing in it.
@Zoeisonstrike yeah I think GitHub discussions are also one level deep.
 
@user Oh, then you can see the old questions if you want by filtering on inactive / archived: i.sstatic.net/2yQL3PM6.png
 
@user it is
> the service is unavailable
Nice
 
3:15 PM
I swear the site has gotten more flaky after some of the cloudflare stuff
On the bright side, it hasn't killed boson yet
Or my comment thing
 
 
2 hours later…
5:42 PM
0
Q: Why is VonC suspended?

Syed M. SannanI just visited VonC's profile and saw this: This account is temporarily suspended for posting inaccurate AI content or plagiarism. The suspension period ends in 5 days. Can someone elaborate on what post(s) warranted the suspension? I am not sure if I am asking at the right place but I saw this...

 
5:54 PM
0
Q: What should I do if I want both a C-focused and C++-focused answer to an otherwise identical/very similar question?

CPlusSometimes I ask questions about C but the rules may be different in C++, for example, in C you can use a union to type-pun, but in C++, doing so is undefined behavior. C++ is an extension of C so most of C-inherited features are the same, but not all. If I have a question, and want both a C-focus...

 
6:36 PM
0
Q: Power BI report - Default date range

Tsko I have i date filter in my Power BI report (slicer type between). I need to configure it to default to show data for the last 8 months back from today's date. I found an option to set up Filter type: relative date, Show items: is in the last 8 months , which works, but the problem is that I can...

 
6:48 PM
0
Q: Why was the answer by VonC deleted, specifically? I could not find inaccurate AI content or plagiarism

Timur ShtatlandI wanted to give a bounty to an answer to my question. But the answer was unexpectedly deleted by CommunityBot (later that changed to "deleted by moderator"). Its author, VonC, is temporarily suspended. Why was the answer by VonC deleted, specifically? I could not find inaccurate AI content or pl...

 
This is not gonna be a fun meta week
 
Great
 
depends on your idea of fun tbh
 
I mean, there's !!!FUN!!!
 
7:03 PM
@Zoeisonstrike Good luck
 
@Zoeisonstrike :-(
 
What is the reason for so much toxicity from certain moderators?
 
@cocomac it is what it is. This wasn't expected to happen quietly anyway IIRC
 
Is it fun to be toxic?
 
"happen" - pass by?
Go unnoticed is much better actually
 
7:16 PM
Do the SE staff also like toxicity? I don't think things will work out for toxic people at some point.
So... good luck for the toxic people!
 
@Marco I don't really want to be rude but, please stop picking a fight with Zoe in this chat room. People generally hang out in this room to track what's going on on Meta and for general discussions about the site. You picking fights here is being disruptive.
 
Are you censoring me?
I'm not naming anyone.
Did I say Zoe's name somewhere?
I'm not looking for a fight with anyone.
 
@Zoeisonstrike What do you mean, it’s drama school. So much to learn.
 
You likely don't understand what censorship is
 
@Nickistired No? Why not?
It seems like you don't know what it is.
 
7:28 PM
@AbdulAzizBarkat I would recommend just ignoring it. Attempts like these have been going on for around a day at this point. There's nothing constructive that can happen from going down this rabbithole
 
Being asked to stop being obnoxious is not the same as actively being supressed
 
I'm just expressing my opinion, is there no freedom of speech here?
 
Will I be prevented from giving my opinion? Remembering that I was not rude when giving my opinion, nor did I name anyone.
 
You were asked to
not told to
you're not being forced into anything
 
7:30 PM
Well, to me that's a threat.
If I don't stop then is it okay?
 
I mean, you'll still be annoying people, but you won't get stopped
Hence, not even close to censorship
 
Really? I have my doubts.
 
Ayh, it’s a great day today.
 
I disagree with your thinking that nothing will happen if I don't stop
 
Well, skies in the air, but meh.
 
7:34 PM
I bet that moderators and room owners (and all its friends) have complete freedom of expression to say what they want and where they want.
 
See? Only downhill
 
@Zoeisonstrike While your subsequent statement that the user lives on Earth is quite likely to be accurate, I'd suggest not joking about that topic as a moderator, as it can be taken quite poorly. In addition, when viewed out of context, it could be used as an indicator that you are using moderator powers inappropriately. Obviously, with your subsequent statement, that's not what you meant, but, particularly with the subsequent statement not in the same chat message, it doesn't look good.
 
I'm sure that the moment they start filling the SE staff with a lot of tickets, all this will start to change.
 
@Marco Moderators and ROs are bound by the Code of Conduct, so no, they cannot say whatever they want. The Mod Agreement also applies to those with diamonds.
 
@cocomac The theory is beautiful, but I don't believe much in practice, as I've seen certain things in practice.
Even the UN charter is beautiful, but in practice...
Well, a few minutes ago I made a comment on the question below saying that I also see a lot of toxicity in at least one SO moderator, and guess what, the comment was deleted. So much freedom of expression!
-4
Q: What is the evidence that this answer by VonC is AI-generated?

Timur ShtatlandI wanted to give a bounty to an answer to my question. But the answer was unexpectedly deleted by Community (later that changed to deleted by moderator). The author, VonC, is temporarily suspended, with the notice, 'This account is temporarily suspended for posting inaccurate AI content or plagia...

 
7:43 PM
@gparyani A technical/system capability question about how the deletion of a specific post was attributed to the Community User is something that could be asked on MSO (i.e., specifically not about why the post was deleted, nor about the suspension of that particular user). Off the top of my head, I'm not aware of a duplicate.
 
IIRC the right to free speech is actually the right to not be subject to government persecution for it. In a private setting you have no such rights
 
@Nickistired It has nothing to do with government specifically, friend. It's general.
The question is, is there any SO rule that allows the comment I made to be deleted? Which rule did I break?
 
The one on MSO?
 
Yes
@Makyen I agree.
 
@Nickistired A bit more forceful than I intend to be, and not intended to be specific to the discussion here, but the xkcd Free Speech does a succinct job of explaining the fact that "Free Speech" in the US is really just freedom from the government limiting your speech (and even then, there are situations where it's permitted for the government to do so).
@Marco Your comment was deleted as a direct result of flags from users. There was no moderator involved.
 
7:54 PM
I'm confused by the reply, as that sounds like agreement :-)
I was expecting it to be a reply to the following message from mine
 
@Makyen ok, I disagree about it but that's at least more reasonable, thanks
 
@Marco The comments (and chat, for that matter) isn't an acceptable place to call people toxic. Specifically, it violates "Engaging with users" from the Code of Conduct, and I flagged the comment with a custom flag accordingly.
 
@Makyen But it is not restricted to governments alone. It's a general expression.
 
@Nickistired I am agreeing. I'm just sharing a relevant xkcd.
 
@Marco No, it's not an expression, it's a codified right with specifics
@Makyen 👍
 
7:56 PM
@cocomac Is it forbidden to express this feeling, then?
Example:
-27
Q: Is it just me, or is Stack Overflow getting toxic?

armitusI have been a Stack Overflow user for multiple years now. I've contributed a bit to the site, answering a few questions here and there, and have been trying to be a good member of the community. However, I have to say that I think that the site is becoming toxic due to certain mechanics. Valid qu...

@Makyen Sorry then, I misunderstood
 
is this room always so lively?
 
@user Only when stuff goes sideways
 
@Marco np :) I'm sorry for the confusion.
 
If expressing this feeling is prohibited, does that question not violate the code of conduct, @cocomac?
Now that I see that the question has been deleted
Ugh
 
Most of the time, the rolling average is days per message, not messages per day :p Not counting feeds messages
 
7:59 PM
But the question below was not deleted:
187
Q: What about the community is "toxic" to new users?

MechMK1In Chapter #2 of The Loop, the following graph is being shown: The blog post states the following as explanation for what it defines as "unwelcoming": Unwelcoming community (10.6% of responses): A perception of an unwelcoming community was the top thing that people found most frustratin...

 
cool
 
Strange that this one only specifies toxicity in relation to new users, the other one that was general was excluded.
 
@gparyani I'm not aware of that being the case.
 
Well, that MSE post is now gone too. In seriousness, there's a difference between complaining about people (especially when it might be interpreted as targeted, rightly or not) and complaining about a site as a while.
 
I don't see any difference.
 
8:05 PM
@Marco Both got deleted, through… not sure what you mean
 
187
Q: What about the community is "toxic" to new users?

MechMK1In Chapter #2 of The Loop, the following graph is being shown: The blog post states the following as explanation for what it defines as "unwelcoming": Unwelcoming community (10.6% of responses): A perception of an unwelcoming community was the top thing that people found most frustratin...

 
The chat link has not yet appeared here. — Marco 54 secs ago
and now it is time for me to disengage :P
 
@Marco I'm not entirely certain exactly which comments or chat messages about toxicity which everyone thinks are being discussed (i.e., I think there was at least some references to a chat message, which I'm not finding).
However, for your comment discussed above that was deleted, I would say that the comment was inappropriate. The way you worded that comment made it just a rant, and, effectively, a passive-aggressive way to indirectly call out a single individual, rather than a discussion about toxicity in general. So, IMO, it was appropriately deleted.
 
@Makyen The comment in question was here meta.stackoverflow.com/q/430008/16886597
(I flagged it, if that helps)
 
@cocomac That's the comment I thought was being asked about and is the one I comment about above.
 
8:16 PM
@user ?
 
What was the verdict on comments accusing people of using CGPT? Not post/flag as NLN?
 
@Makyen I just considered that the OP also thinks like me that at least one SO moderator is toxic. I did not refer to any comments, chat messages, nor did I appoint any moderator in special (i.e naming some moderator).
@user Are you sure you know how a chat link appears when there are many comments? It seems not and besides you are being ironic for some reason I don't know.
@Makyen Ok, can you tell me any SE rule that prevent this type of comment?
 
12
A: More information is needed in chat Flagged Posts

Marc GravellYes, as discussed here: Defend against flag spam in chat Addressing both the question and sbi's answer - there are some good ideas here, which we are actively considering: showing the room is very sensible, and should be trivial to do [done] we're considering showing to moderators only the use...

(though I was slightly wrong - it's actually 15 days, not 14)
 
@Marco Not sure why I bother attempting to explain, but, I flagged that comment of yours because it was not just unconstructive, but false. You were making an accusation which was not true. There’s no value in that. I’ve seen all the chat messages, and been on the other end of your unpleasant chat messages. You don’t need to argue and fight for the sake of arguing and fighting. Please just stop.
 
@Makyen "indirectly call out a single individual": what specific individual did I mention? I did not name any individual.
 
8:25 PM
@Marco Yes, exactly. That's why I said "indirectly".
 
@AndreasmovedtoCodidact Can you prove it is false? And who are you to tell me to stop?
@Makyen Not even indirectly.
I didn't mention any specific person.
 
@gparyani Hmmm... I'm fairly sure I've "spam, inappropriate, or offensive" flagged chat messages older than that, but I'd have to test to be sure. I'm unsure if I've tried doing so on chat.MSE where I'm not a moderator.
 
@Makyen The flag initially appears to go through, but silently disappears.
 
In fact, I've been seeing a certain SE user profile that suggests hate speech against certain countries, I'm going to report this to Stack Exchange.
 
Maybe mods are exempt from the statute of limitations, to handle special situations where a truly offensive message slipped through community handling.
 
8:28 PM
@gparyani I'm sure I've done it as a mod and had the chat message deleted. (which could indicate that mods are exempt, as you've said later)
@Marco You're welcome to either submit those via Contact Us or raise an "in need of moderator intervention" flag and explain the issue. While there is considerable leeway given to a user's "about me", violations of the Code of Conduct aren't permitted and will be removed.
 
@Makyen How do I make this intervention to the moderator? It's in a user profile.
There is no flag there
 
58
Q: Flag offensive user profile

rolflThis has been raised many times, and marked duplicate, but recent circumstances have not been the same as before (I believe), and it is time to revisit the question with a different perspective... especially since there was debate in the linked MSO question as to whether the MSO question itself i...

 
@gparyani Thank you very much!
 
(ninja'd)
 
E-mail to team@stackoverflow.com...
@Makyen Is there a way for me to alert a moderator about a profile user, without me having to contact SE?
 
8:35 PM
I mean, you can just link my profile in this chat room. The moderators in here will likely open it out of curiousity, and clear my profile description if they think it’s in violation of site rules. But seriously, you need to stop threatening everybody you interact with.
 
@Marco You can flag one of their posts for moderator attention, clearly mentioning that you're referring to the user profile. If the user has no (non-deleted if you're <10k) posts, you can flag one of your own posts and mention the same.
 
@gparyani There's got to be a MSO or MSE post that says that, but I'm not seeing it in my bookmarks
 
@AndreasmovedtoCodidact Do you have something problematic on your profile? And again, who are you to tell me to stop doing anything?
 
@Makyen The above post's duplicate target
 
Guys, stop wasting time on this. He’s clearly talking about my profile. You’re wasting time.
 
8:37 PM
@gparyani Thank you very much.
 
@gparyani I'm not seeing that it says that (i.e., inclusive of both flag a post of the user and flag one of your own posts if the user has none).
 
@gparyani Done.
 
27
Q: How should I flag a user account if it has no posts to flag?

Ben BrockaIt came up in chat that a spammer's account needed destroyed; their posts had been deleted but their name (which was offensive) still showed up on the front page as updates to posts and their user account hadn't been deleted. Someone in chat wanted this fixed but there "wasn't anything to flag"...

 
@gparyani Great too, thanks
 
> Otherwise, you can flag [...] a completely unrelated [post] (such as one of your own posts).
 
8:41 PM
Perfect
 
@gparyani Thanks for tracking that down. I've added to the appropriate folder in my bookmarks.
@gparyani It seems like that should at least be in the duplicate lists.
 
@Makyen If you like, you can go ping Shadow in the Tavern asking that he adds it. He's perfectly OK with chat requests to edit duplicate lists.
Anyway, on to your other reply to me...
 
Is there somewhere on my profile that I can monitor my flags?
 
@Makyen That does make sense to ask. However, one thing to show research would be the timeline entry on the Community user deletion. Whenever a post is deleted by Community, the timeline entry for the deletion is annotated with the reason for automatic deletion (e.g., "Scheduled: [Roomba criterion]" or "User [x] [deleted/destroyed]"). This annotation is visible to 10k+ users. Is there any objection to having that annotation for that post be disclosed publicly?
 
Another question, can users with high reputation and/or moderators see posts, answers, etc., that have been deleted?
 
9:00 PM
@gparyani I don't think that's unreasonable. It's at least as public as other information on a deleted post. However, you should be aware that the specific answer which was linked in that meta question was subsequently undeleted and quickly re-deleted by a moderator (I don't know why). Thus, the actual deletion banner no longer says that it was deleted by Community. If you want a screenshot of that banner, you'll either need to find another example or get it from someone who has the answer open in a tab and is willing to change the DOM such that it's not hidden, as the re-deletion causes the deleted post to be behind the normal deletion fade and "This post has been deleted" banner, just like a normal deletion does.
@Marco Yes, both moderators and users with the access to moderator tools privilege can see deleted posts. The exception to this are posts that have been removed for some limited specific reasons (e.g., DMCA takedowns).
 
@Marco On your profile's activity page, the "helpful flags" text is a link that leads to the pages with a list of your flags.
 
Ok, thanks again!
Hmm, now the question was deleted for moderation reasons... Ugh...
At least this one hasn't been deleted yet:
-7
Q: Why is VonC suspended?

Syed M. SannanI just visited VonC's profile and saw this: This account is temporarily suspended for posting inaccurate AI content or plagiarism. The suspension period ends in 5 days. Can someone elaborate on what post(s) warranted the suspension? I am not sure if I am asking at the right place but I saw this...

 
9:28 PM
@Makyen I wasn't referring to the banner - there's already a quoted copy of that on a global meta post - but the timeline entry, which will stay there even if the form of deletion is later changed.
As you feel it's reasonable, can you please tell me what the timeline note is for the Community user deletion event on that answer?
 
@Marco I respectfully disagree, and I actually think it should be deleted. It's been made abundantly clear, multiple times over, that mods are not going to comment further on the specifics requested in that post.
 
Ok, no problem, I already saw the SE rules about it, I didn't know them.
 
@gparyani Unfortunately, no, as I don't know if there's a difference between what's shown to a moderator than what is shown to non-moderators in this instance.
 
@Makyen Okay. In that case, can a non-mod with 10k+ rep please tell me what the annotation for the Community user deletion entry in the timeline is for the answer linked here?
Also, @Makyen RE your comments on this post, I think it's probably a good idea to have an official written policy for third-party appeals of suspensions.
 
Ugh, that question was deleted too
 
9:44 PM
There was one case on Meta.SE where it proved helpful. A user had posted an image in chat, which was a benign image in and of itself, but the website owner had set their site up so hotlinking their images from other sites would display an NSFW image instead of the real one, which they did so deliberately to get people banned from sites on which they hotlink their images.
 
@gparyani That's not unreasonable. As far as I'm aware, both the company and moderators take suspensions very seriously. We definitely care about getting it right and certainly don't want anyone suspended erroneously. On the other hand, we don't want thousands of people inquiring about any particular suspension, but, as far as I know, such inquiries have never been made in bulk. Such inquiries do happen from time to time in limited numbers.
 
The user legitimately couldn't tell what was going on since their browser had cached the intended SFW image, so for them it showed that instead of the NSFW image in their hotlinked embeds, and so they made an appeal on the site calling out mods for being unreasonable for chat-suspending them for posting a perfectly SFW image. The mods incorrectly took that as blatant trolling, and suspended them on the main site.
Then I went and did the research and found out that the site deliberately serves NSFW images if the Referer doesn't match the site, and showed that evidence to the mods, and they then unsuspended the user on the site and chat.
There are other cases that can happen, such as if a suspended user contacts another user off-site and asks them to pass on a message to the mods.
 
@gparyani I think there's a comment somewhere by a staff member RE third-party appeals. I'll see if I can find it. I might well be mistaken though
 
@gparyani As with most things that involve users, raising a "in need of moderator intervention" flag and explaining the situation seems like the correct course of action.
 
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