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6:00 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Davy M
@SamuelLiew Unable to do that, the Meta Room has been frozen for unclear and unexplained reasons. — Davy M 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
There was some discussion about discrimination that was mostly getting wrapped up... Then that happened. Naturally, the offending messages have (rightfully) been deleted. — Cerbrus 32 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Chris Baker
It's hard to watch the company and their staff ignore or lock down the discussion with absolutely no effort to engage in a meaningful way with the people who built this entire site. Makes me sick. — Chris Baker 36 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Manohar Reddy
Why is the meta room frozen ? — Manohar Reddy 17 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
I just had a look, and that (removed) message there was... quite shocking. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Chris Baker
The staff have made more effort to close off discussion than to engage in meaningful interaction with the people who built this site, now it's turning into a circus. — Chris Baker 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexander O'Mara
The 2 most-recent "(removed)" comments, not the other issue some might assume. — Alexander O'Mara 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe the transgirl
This might be the reason, but that seems more like a reason to try to calm down the situation than shut down a conversation that now is more likely to go off-site. — Zoe the transgirl 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rlemon
I agree with @Cereal, there was much less destructive ways to deal with this. — rlemon 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Magisch
The discussion was out of control for hours and asking people to drop it did nothing. It's maybe partially on me but I didn't do anything drastic and this is the result. I wasn't reading all messages and didn't even see that one before it got deleted. — Magisch 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Sterling Archer
I also saw the message we see as removed. It confused me and had... well I have no idea. I’m not surprised the room was frozen after that was posted, given the topic. But it seemed mostly civil, certain people could have simply been removed tbh. — Sterling Archer 37 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by EJoshuaS
@GeorgeStocker If you think that the linked post is wrong, feel free to downvote and leave an answer. Being wrong is not a proper reason for a moderation action. — EJoshuaS 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cereal
@MartijnPieters Seems like more a case of kicking, deleting, and moving on. That user wasn't part of the conversation prior. It was entirely a troll message. — Cereal 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexander O'Mara
@ChrisBaker I was there in the room and I do not believe that was the reason this room was locked. — Alexander O'Mara 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
@Cerbrus: I'm speculating here, I'll drop any further comments until I know more. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@MartijnPieters: About a "Choice", if I'm not mistaken? Only got to read half before it vanished... Still, I'd rather see the individual reprimanded than the entire room locked. — Cerbrus 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by weegee
A timeout is what which was needed with a clear reason. Freezing it was not a good decision — weegee just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexander O'Mara
Pinging @TimPost so he will see this. — Alexander O'Mara 59 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Bhargav Rao
FWIW, I had asked people to drop it, and was trying to time it out for a few minutes. The conversation had deviated completely from moderator resignations to some other stuff. — Bhargav Rao ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rlemon
@Magisch the conversation was passionate because of the recent meta activies and moderation changes. If that was outside of the scope of the room a new room could be created, but no one was proposing that (for the time I was active) — rlemon 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe the transgirl
@rlemon tbf, SE does not have a good track record of handling things well recently... Some exceptions, but too few. — Zoe the transgirl 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Chris Baker
I was also there, and I am also watching the company not respond in any way to this situation other than a copy/paste boilerplate corporate speak comment, and locking the chat room. The only two "official" actions I have seen, neither inspire feelings of trust that this whole thing isn't just going down the crapper. — Chris Baker 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Davy M
@ManoharReddy There's a dedicated question for that: Why was the meta room frozen?Davy M 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@Zoethetransgirl kudos on the name change, very brave xx — Yvette Colomb 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ndugger
Considering that the new CoC allegedly contains mandated language regarding trans people and their pronouns, I feel as if the discussion was on topic, since we were discussing how disagreements are not discrimination, which seems related to some of the Moderators' feelings on the mandated changes and how SE is dealing with it — ndugger 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe the transgirl
I thought that was limited to chat (superpings)? — Zoe the transgirl 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Erik A
@AlexanderO'Mara Moderators can ping globally, but it doesn't work both ways — Erik A 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexander O'Mara
Moderators are globally ping-able last I knew. — Alexander O'Mara 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
From what I understand @Scott, you can only @ ping close voters in comments who are either gold badge holders (and therefore your question is closed) who or were the first close voter (before your question is closed) because the first close voter creates a duplicate comment. — Ben 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by StephanS
this thread should be moved to the meta chatroom since it's getting quite long. cough coughStephanS 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Script47
I'd have to agree with @ndugger. The topic, though controversial is definitely on-topic for that room, irrespective of your feelings towards it. — Script47 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe the transgirl
@YvetteColomb yeah, visibility is kinda the problem. Figured I might help a little with that :) — Zoe the transgirl 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by opa
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pekka 웃
@GeorgeStocker The post was borderline before putting a link to Caleb's post so remove that, then, and reinstate the tag. This isn't about the CoC per se, it's about Stack Overflow's unceremoniously removing a highly respected long-term moderator ("firing" sort of feels like the wrong word) on what appear to be very weak grounds. — Pekka 웃 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@StephanS way to create a secondary meta chat room.. omg this was so sneaky — Yvette Colomb 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by canon
I'm rather glad this post was featured. I might not have seen it otherwise. Sadly, the desire to bury this type of post is exactly the type of thing I've come to expect from SE. — canon 47 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Heretic Monkey
Wouldn't mind seeing stackblitz and a few others added to the list, but codesandbox.io does seem to be the biggest offender. — Heretic Monkey 12 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe the transgirl
@DavyM the thing is, that wasn't 0.015. The chat contained a lot of users I haven't seen around meta, at least not actively. The question being featured brought a lot of people there, and people who got interested read the comments and found the link. — Zoe the transgirl 50 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by vxdcxw
As you say, reputation won't prevent malicious students - there are rules (students that tries to harm the system get temporarily banned) - but it will make it harder. New students with low rep must help others to grow their reputation. The main issue resides in the big load of new students every year, there can be over 2000 new students coming the same month. This process is automatic and there is no way to "trust" a student because the only ones that meet students are other students. — vxdcxw 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Davy M
@YvetteColomb This time we could call it ".015%"Davy M 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by vxdcxw
I forgot to mention: the first thing a student gets when he join the school is an email address, it is his identity. Stack Overflow for teams only require an email address from the school. — vxdcxw 6 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Chris Baker
The company should be engaged in this situation so the fallout doesn't land on volunteers anyway. I understand if they needed to get together and formulate a response, but it's been long enough without any word at all. This is the predictable outcome to what they did, then they just disappear and leave the mess for someone else. — Chris Baker 44 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by opa
Don't we have mods who handle this? Can't we kick offending users out? — opa 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Paul Stenne
Well, I mean, it makes sense. Sadly I think you're a bit late, the early responses to the event were not welcomed and there is no way the community will enjoy any "shutdown" of any kind, all you're doing is making it look like you're censoring the debate (first the featured tag, now room freezes...). This will be a harsh day, I hope you can come up with a proper response soon. — Paul Stenne 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Davy M
We have a handful of room owners there so that the staff doesn't have to worry about keeping up with what's going on there. — Davy M 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
From my perspective, that last discussion seemed to be finished... Kicking that last offending user would probably have been enough, especially considering there were multiple moderators and ROs active in the room. Not to mention the availability of spam / R/A flags. Please consider unlocking the room again. Have a little faith in the people that are there moderating it. — Cerbrus 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe the transgirl
Moderators are more than capable of handling toxicity as it shows up - users too. We have the minimum amount of tools required to keep it at bay while you formulate responses to make this stop. — Zoe the transgirl 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by weegee
@opa an RO did and I was about to make a timeout with a very specific reason as to why there's a timeout so there won't be any confusion and everything goes on but I couldn't click the button and the room was frozen in an instant — weegee 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe the transgirl
Two active and a couple more lurking IIRC, as well as several not in the chat, but who are able to respond to flags, if needed. — Zoe the transgirl 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cesar M
@ChrisBaker we have been present and helping our moderators as we can (In the TL, in mod rooms across the network) and other places. When we cannot effectively support then, we chose to freeze it for a while until we can be more in there. That's all. We'll unfreeze it when we can spare a few resources. — Cesar M ♦ 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Joe W
@vxdcxw I still fail to see why you have to give every student automatic and immediate access to the teams site or why they would need it. Wouldn't it be much better to have an orientation where they get instruction/training/guidelines for the site and once that was completed they would gain access? I know that when I went back to school as a non traditional student there was still various things I had to do before I had access to all the tools. — Joe W 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Sébastien Renauld
During the discussion, we had at least two active moderators in the discussion, didn't we? — Sébastien Renauld 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rlemon
In a room where people were begging for Staff participation and answers, this was not what we meant. :/ — rlemon 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tim Post
@Cerbrus We determined that more supervision was needed. And we don't need to explain that further. We need to effectively triage our time today and that's going to mean doing things that people don't agree with. EOF. — Tim Post ♦ 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by JL2210
Did you think of how people would feel before you did this? — JL2210 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by JL2210
@Zoethetransgirl Why'd you change your username? — JL2210 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@CesarM: The resources were in that room at the time of freezing, see my earlier message... We don't need a CM to police the room. — Cerbrus 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe the transgirl
[ Boson ] New comment posted by John Dvorak
@JL2210 I suspect it's in response to the incident details shown in Caleb's resignation. — John Dvorak 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tim Post
Resources: There are thousands of people that want to talk to us. There are roughly 4 of us able to help with that. — Tim Post ♦ 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Chris Baker
"we don't need to explain" -- isn't that what started all this in the first place? — Chris Baker 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Chris Baker
@CesarM when can resources be sparred for the company to address any of the concerns of the core users? If you're spread thin treating symptoms, why not focus on the disease? — Chris Baker 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rlemon
we can be outraged when we are told we are allowed to be outraged again. Please continue coding until then. — rlemon 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Sébastien Renauld
Well, that's three communication channels EOF'd by the same person. — Sébastien Renauld 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
For that question you could ping tripleee @scott, who closed the question with their gold badge. tripleee also has the ability to open the question with a single vote for the same reason, so is the best person who's interacted with the question to ping. Ensure you explain why. I'd also time the current implementation and then explain what you expect the timings to be in order to achive your goals. When you edit it'll be put in the reopen queue. Ping me somewhere when you do and I'll vote to reopen too. Don't want to in advance as people won't see the best version of your question. — Ben 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rlemon
Halting discussion is a sure fire way to make sure the userbase is happy. Always has been, Always will be. right on. — rlemon 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cereal
@Zoethetransgirl Twitter is a horrible platform for conversation — Cereal 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe the transgirl
Who would've thought I'd go about recommending this? Use Twitter. It's one channel they can't shut down. — Zoe the transgirl 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rlemon
@Cereal neither are comments tho.. :notsureif: — rlemon 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cereal
@Zoethetransgirl Chatrooms are not for discussion. Did you not hear Tim Post? — Cereal 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe the transgirl
@Cereal so is apparently meta. — Zoe the transgirl 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@DavyM :) nice to see you — Yvette Colomb 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexander O'Mara
Why do you assume seeing a therapist equals mental illness? — Alexander O'Mara 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by opa
Now, Tim is screwed up a lot today, but Tim was absolutely not insinuating you were insane, but rather stating that a SO chatroom is not the location to discuss your personal qualms with how gender identity should be treated. Therapist part was a stand-in for "any institutions which would allow you to discuss your internal conflicts about issues". — opa 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Félix Gagnon-Grenier
"Merely discussing or entertaining an idea not directly in line with the line of Party became considered as heresy, the Party would not suffer people from thinking in other ways." - 2084, or an exploratory tale of Making The Same Authoritarian Mistakes All Over Again™ — Félix Gagnon-Grenier 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trasiva
Wait, was that actually verbatim what Tim sent you? — Trasiva 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Sébastien Renauld
Between the one-man war against the featured tag put by another moderator and the repetitive locking of communication channels (be they comments or chat rooms), I wonder where this will go next. — Sébastien Renauld 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe the transgirl
It's a bit of a paradox - we can't discuss in chat, and we can't discuss in the comments. There's not a lot of options left. If we move this to chat, the room will probably be frozen again — Zoe the transgirl 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jpmc26
@Trasiva Yes. I'll edit in a link. — jpmc26 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ndugger
While I definitely don't agree with Tim's actions at all, running around capping off dissent, but let's maybe remove the assumption that seeing a therapist means you have a mental illness, or that having one is necessarily a negative thing. This whole thing was blown way out of proportion, due to the few moderators left trying to maintain order. Your opinion on whether or not trans people are valid is irrelevant to the discussion on meta, but "cancelling" the room due to your disagreement is also way out of line. — ndugger 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by John Dvorak
@SébastienRenauld I suppose the only remaining option would be to wait out until SE has the ability to moderate chatrooms again. But then again, if they shut down all chat, most likely I won't be able to stick around for when it gets unlocked again eventually. — John Dvorak 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe the transgirl
@Trasiva this was not targeted at OP of this answer. It was posted generally in chat, and it was aimed at all the people who discussed it. And it was a huge discussion, so OP is going a bit overboard with the last sentence before the quote. — Zoe the transgirl 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cereal
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rlemon
It's disheartening to see that our time is also not valued during all of this. We spend hundreds if not thousands of hours on this site, contributing, self moderating, correcting, making SO what SO is.. and when we have concerns over what we percieve to be troubling actions we are told to know our place, they don't have time to listen. — rlemon 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexander O'Mara
@FélixGagnon-Grenier There are plenty of non-mental illness reasons to see a therapist, perhaps including the reason Tim suggested. Conflating seeing a therapist with mental illness is perpetuating an unnecessary stigma, and kinda offensive. — Alexander O'Mara 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cereal
@ndugger It's relevant. A lot of people were voicing agreement - He's allowed to offer a counter perspective. It's extremely relevant. You need both sides of a conversation. Otherwise it's an echochamber. The reaction to his post is what was completely uncalled for. — Cereal 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jpmc26
@AlexanderO'Mara I cannot think of another reason why I would need to see a therapist about a particular issue, just as I cannot think of a reason other than possibly being physically ill why a person would recommend I see a doctor about a cough. — jpmc26 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Félix Gagnon-Grenier
@AlexanderO'Mara While not all people who see therapists have mental illnesses, people with mental illnesses generally see therapists. Please don't make it sound as though it was such a stretch. — Félix Gagnon-Grenier 9 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Davy M
@YvetteColomb Yeah, I haven't been around much lately, but yesterday I decided to take a look and saw the dumpster fire brewing and made some popcorn. Good to see you too :) — Davy M 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Script47
'Daily vote limit reached; vote again in 5 hours.' - G'darn it, not today with all the drama going around. — Script47 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Chris Baker
It was an ableist comment, for sure. — Chris Baker 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jpmc26
@opa I wasn't discussing my personal qualms. I was providing a reasoning for my position on transgenderism in response to an emotional appeal someone else made to be supportive of them. — jpmc26 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexander O'Mara
@FélixGagnon-Grenier That's not the definition at-all? Conflated by stigma maybe, but certainly not definition. — Alexander O'Mara 9 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ndugger
@Cereal the productive discussion would be about how we handle disagreements, not whether or not we disagree. We don't need to air our personal beliefs on whether or not trans people should be respected. Instead, we can discuss how we handle the disagreement, and whether or not we should mandate specific language when interacting with our trans friends. — ndugger 10 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Félix Gagnon-Grenier
I know, I literally said that many people seeing therapists don't have mental illnesses, but that people with mental ilnesses generally see therapists. The two are conflated, by definition @Alex. — Félix Gagnon-Grenier 12 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by snakecharmerb
I think the straw that broke the camel's back was a now-deleted comment by another user, which contained a term very likely to be considered offensive in most contexts. — snakecharmerb 12 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jpmc26
@ndugger It was directed at me. That is how I interpreted it, and I am unconvinced it meant anything more benign. You are free to disagree. That is why I included the full text. — jpmc26 13 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by weegee
With you formulating the current situation in different words will create more discussions that don't need to be there. I'm sure Tim Post meant something else, not that you're suffering from mental illness — weegee 10 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by snakecharmerb
@SébastienRenauld I'm just observing that the OP's comments were not the sole cause of the closure. Not defending (or opposing) the room freeze. — snakecharmerb 11 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cereal
@ndugger The reaction to his disagreement was arguably the most important contribution to any conversation about disagreement. They removed the disagreement. I don't agree with him, or his opinions, but boy did he make a point, intentionally or not. — Cereal 13 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Chris Baker
@rlemon That's my beef -- I contributed my time, for free, with the understanding that WE were making this thing. Like OSS, the contributors have some ownership of the project, an equal voice. This has increasingly not been the case, now we have a "Director Of Community Strategy" ensuring the community doesn't exist. Interesting strategy. — Chris Baker 12 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jpmc26
@AlexanderO'Mara Surely you can recognize that it's "likely to offend or alienate" someone on the receiving end of it. That is the standard set forth by the CoC, at any rate. — jpmc26 12 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe the transgirl
@Cereal I'll say this one more time: and for the sake of context, disagreement does not have to imply toxicity, but jpmc26's comment was extremely offensive. that has nothing to do with the disagreement aspect. — Zoe the transgirl 13 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jpmc26
@JohnDvorak It would almost certainly result in immediate removal of this answer if parts were included, so no, that would not be productive. — jpmc26 10 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe the transgirl
@JohnDvorak no. It would also most likely result in continuing the discussion which was supposed to end in chat. — Zoe the transgirl 11 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ndugger
I don't think it was "extremely offensive" if you remove your personal emotion from the equation. Definitely misguided and ill-timed, but I'd love to see more objectivity from both sides of the table. — ndugger 12 mins ago
 

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