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12:06 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Marco13
@MartijnPieters As long as it's not about blind "rep wh0ring", keeping an eye on the rep/upvoes is not a bad thing per se - it is feedback and an indicator how helpful answers are. This doesn't always align with the own perception... (I'm still somewhat embarrassed that stackoverflow.com/a/41348525/3182664 is still visible as a spike in my rep graph :-/ ). Knowing that an answer is good, but not receiving positive feedback, can be frustrating. As I said, there are many influencing factors (googleability, durability (jQuery anyone?), crosslinks/dupetargeting etc.) — Marco13 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexis King
For what it’s worth, I will go against the grain on this and say that I agree completely with you: I had no problem with Robert’s post being featured before the edit was made, but I don’t really want it featured with it. That post can be featured on Christianity.SE, I don’t really care what happens there, as it isn’t my site. But Stack Overflow is, and I don’t want it featured here. — Alexis King 31 secs ago
 
12:30 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by James K Polk
Inclusion and respect are not the only values you should uphold, nor are they necessarily the most important ones. Freedom of thought, freedom of speech, and freedom of belief are far more important. They should be the pinnacle of your values hierarchy, far above inclusion and respect. When your corporate vision of "inclusion and respect" tramples all over freedom of speech, thought, and belief you have definitely gotten it all wrong. Go back, start over, and fix it. — James K Polk 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by JL2210
Let's not get political. — JL2210 1 min ago
 
12:52 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Stocker
One issue is that the mod messages are purposefully designed to indicate the problem without dwelling on the rules lawyering that inevitably happens when you include the examples. The user knows their behavior and what they did wrong. Our message is about our expectations and what they should do moving forward. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
@PeterMortensen: Moderator Tutorial. — Robert Harvey ♦ 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dan Walmsley
Why is Caleb's answer offsite an issue. Is it because it's another resignation and they shouldn't get displayed in this way? — Dan Walmsley 1 min ago
 
1:12 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gerardo Furtado
If that edit were an edit for a regular question in the queue I'd reject it as "this edit defaces the post". — Gerardo Furtado 1 min ago
 
1:30 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samuel Liew
@Dan Fair question, because the reason for the post being featured was to bring focus to the resignation of one of our longest-serving moderators, who deserves our respect for his service to Stack Overflow. If this intent changes, I will lose the ground to leave the post featured. I reiterate that this is a fair compromise and mods has discussed this privately. — Samuel Liew ♦ 1 min ago
 
1:46 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user1306322
alright, didn't mean to presume too much, but I have only the word of those who are privy to that information to trust — user1306322 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samuel Liew
Is yolo a popular tag? See linked dupe. — Samuel Liew ♦ 40 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Davy M
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dan Bron
You can suggest it once in a comment and move on. While recognizing these people may have no other choice, for a variety of reasons you can’t and won’t know. If you mention it in an answer, make sure to also still answer the question as asked with the existing technology as a constraint you can’t negotiate. — Dan Bron 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by EternalHour
Seems to me it has passed the point of "debug this code for me", and gone to "write this code for me". — EternalHour 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Vega
When the question is of low quality it may enter the "Help and Improvement" queue. The editor does not have the view if any pending edits are on, unless they expressly click on the link of the question to check. But it's not mandatory — Vega 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Chloe
@Cerbrus I think some interesting correlations could be discovered. And you forgot politics.stackexchange.com. — Chloe 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Omnifarious
After reading more about this, I have to agree. The only solution is to leave the site. Everybody should go. I also refuse to live under the proposed changes in the new CoC. — Omnifarious 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Chloe
duckduckgo.com/?q=nback&ia=web Online tests. I don't think it correlates with programming because apparently I suck at those tests. — Chloe 1 min ago
 
2:58 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Edwin Buck
I would hope too, but wouldn't count on it. I just called out a "big time" contributor for calling me a junior (when I've 9 years in), calling the questioner's code "total nonsense" and calling the questioner's user name "probably a troll account", and for my efforts, the comment was moderator deleted. I'm seriously considering deleting my account StackOverflow has crossed a line that makes me (a nine year user) ashamed to contribute to it's success. — Edwin Buck 23 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Edwin Buck
@fbueckert I agree, the good will was heavily primed by the originators, fueled through their copious blog posts. Now, it's sold, and it's even more than typical "business first". I get it, SO can't live without business, but they're burning their contributors, so in a few years, they'll have no answers, just questions. — Edwin Buck 1 min ago
 
3:30 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ivan_pozdeev
@DanBron your comment is actually an answer so please make it an answer so the community can handle it appropriately. — ivan_pozdeev 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by mason
@GeorgeStocker "the user knows their behaviour and what they did wrong" - the whole point of this question is they don't know and want to be told more clearly. — mason 1 min ago
 
4:10 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jpmc26
Could you clarify what you mean by, "please, don't be Hitler, nobody likes that"? I'm having a hard time understanding if you meant people who support Israel are comparable to Hitler or if it has something to do with the disruption itself. (I can't think of a way in which the latter interpretation is applicable, but maybe there's something I'm missing. I certainly hope that's the case.) — jpmc26 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Turner
@AlexisKing that's Christianity Meta, there's not a ton of doctrine being discussed on that site. The site is always linked to the bottom bar of every page, even if it's not your cup of tea. — Peter Turner 2 mins ago
 
5:04 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tim Post
@jpmc26 No you're not. What you're doing is going through everything I've ever written with a lens that seeks things that you might use to create an argument. — Tim Post ♦ 6 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ivarni
I tend to agree here as well. I don't think that post should be featured while that link is in it. — ivarni 33 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gman
it is how you mentor a new programmer. You teach them to be resourceful, you teach them to look in the docs. You teach them to read through the examples in the docs. You teach them to learn how to pair down their example into the smallest reproducible code. What you do not do it just answer their questions that they should have figured out on their own. Just giving teh codez doesn't help them. The closes, the downvotes, the comments repeating the help are all there to lead them to become better without overwhelming the volutneer answerers or making the site a complete swamp. — gman 1 min ago
 
5:30 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Your Common Sense
@PeterMortensen a blunder. For some reason I thought is a word for a moderator's action. My English is still delusional. — Your Common Sense 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
I did say SO, not SE. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rene
IIRC correctly users < 150 rep are put in guided mode by default. Are these changes meant for users that are above that rep level? — rene 12 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Olivier Rogier
I think that this UI suggestion to have a better UX may be applied to all users regardless of their reputation. I did not know that users < 150 rep are put in guided mode by default and it is great. But my suggestion may apply to this mode too in each page (links may open url in _blank mode). I tried the guided mode but I have not be able to return to the standard mode: a link is missing. — Olivier Rogier 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Olivier Rogier
I think that this UI suggestion to have a better UX may be applied to all users regardless of their reputation in the standard mode as well as in the guided mode. I did not know that users < 150 rep are put in guided mode by default and it is great. But my suggestion may apply to this mode too in each page. I tried the guided mode but I have not be able to return to the standard mode even after deleted cookies: a link is missing. Links may open url in _blank mode to not break the input process. — Olivier Rogier 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
I dunno, sometimes you have to do what's right despite ideological, political and religious differences. To me that means alerting the community that an important figure, who happened to be their mod, has resigned, and their reason for doing so was caused by the (unfair) dismissal of an equally important (almost legendary) moderator by Stack Exchange. 1/2 — Mari-Lou A 9 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
Ordinary users, new users, users who never mixed in site politics need to know that these actions will carry consequences. The after-effects will continue to be felt long after the waters have settled down. You have a responsibility to inform your community to the best of your abilities. This doesn't mean taking sides, it means supplying users with information that will affect how the site will be run in the following months 2/2 — Mari-Lou A 40 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Amaresh
story of software org: you came, you gave your best, scratch head, wrote code, scratch head, re-wrote the code, product delivered, you get your value lessened as you've delivered, now they will hire another in less money and so new person can scratch his/her head again w/o confronting or asking question. you felt less valued or respected. you opinion didn't matter as you've already produced and code is with them now, you felt that some other venture yours or others will give you value you deserve. 'story repeats". All the best — Amaresh 49 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Twenty
At least IMO that is a pretty 'stupid' system. — Twenty 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Raedwald
Ultimately a line must be drawn between acceptable and unacceptable comments. The position of that line has been changed. Now subtle rudeness, such as snark, is unacceptable. Consequently I comment much less, but much more ruthlessly downvote and vote to close. Without commenting on my votes. — Raedwald 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Raedwald
A brief comment saying why the room was being frozen immediately before freezing it might have avoided this drama. Especially because one of the reasons was the content of a deleted comment: to someone (such as me) who arrived after the freezing, the action seemed arbitrary and unjustified — Raedwald 30 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Your Common Sense
@Raedwald thank you, I apparently missed the new rule. Gonna follow the suit. Sadly, you cannot vote on comments. — Your Common Sense 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by nyedidikeke
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rene
that answer looks like an answer, and if that is the code that now works for them, makes it an answer. They should have asked a new question but that needs more substance, like what "optimize" means and then it might even need to go on CodeReview if there isn't an actual coding problem to solve. — rene 44 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Twenty
To me it seems that it should be a new question instead since the following line but i think my logic is not optimize... At least it should be edited. — Twenty 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by CertainPerformance
OP posted the code that that solves the problem posted in the question. The answer itself looks like an attempt at addressing the problem in the question, so it shouldn't be flagged or deleted. The comment on your answer sounds like he may be confusing SO for a forum, but despite that, his answer is still within the rules — CertainPerformance 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by GhostCat
@JamesKPolk You are entering very dangerous territory here. One could read your statement as "if I have a religious belief that results in disrespectful speech towards you, then YOU are the one who has to tolerate that". Because my rights of religious belief and freedom of speech are more important than showing respect towards you. Think about that. But note: I dont want to start such a discussion here. I don't think it would be doing any good. See meta.stackexchange.com/a/334036/285661 for example. — GhostCat 17 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by CertainPerformance
I've seen many answers containing something along the lines of "The below code is ugly / inefficient / not optimized for X", but there's nothing wrong with that. — CertainPerformance 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Twenty
Well then, I guess I got to obscured by the language used. Thanks anyway! — Twenty 48 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by duskwuff
"Can you please see my below code […] will you please check this?" sounds to me like a vague request for further help, not a statement that a solution was reached. — duskwuff 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by xdtTransform
Btw if the question seems really easy and trivial. Please don't answer the duplicate. Make the Search the user should have done and flag the post . — xdtTransform 50 secs ago
 
6:58 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Simon
Whaat..? I was completely unaware of what's going on. I've just read a couple of Q&A and I'm honestly gobsmacked how SE Inc. seems to be treating this issue. SE Inc, are you even aware that the whole business value your company has is generated by users and moderators, which do this free of charge? — Simon 59 secs ago
 
7:08 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Twenty
Alright then, this makes sense to me and I will do that the next time I encounter a similar issue. Thanks for your investigation. — Twenty 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
Thanks for the contribution. I will surely answer. Just a quick remark now: asking for downvotes in the first sentence is not a good idea. The crowd here is usually only too happy to oblige. On the other hand be aware that votes on meta is often not a judgement on quality, but just agreement or disagreement in the discussion. — Trilarion 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Anonymous Type
@RobertHarvey is the mod god we need. — Anonymous Type 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jeanne Dark
What were / are your expectations of Stack Overflow? Can you make them more explicit? — Jeanne Dark 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by weegee
If the comments were bullying then you have a flag as unkind option. If they are repeated then custom flag and tell the mod the problem. Stackoverflow has trained no one to be harsh. If the question is clear, one or more people will help you, if it’s not then they’ll ask for clarifications. Why would they shout in the comments if the question is perfectly clear and not a dupe? — weegee 52 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Magisch
I started programming on stack overflow too. When I first made this account, I had no idea of anything, and I was just starting an apprenticeship as software developer. Throughout my time here, while SO has been an invaluable resource, I became increasingly convinced of what it was not: A site for beginners. It feels like this site is fundamentally unsuitable for anyone who doesn't have significant prior experience and knowledge about programming. And the community itself severely resists attempts to change that. — Magisch 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Also related, you need to be 13 years of age before you're allowed to participate in the SE network (source) — Cerbrus 14 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
"so mark it as a duplicate and downvote my "question" if you want." Starting a question like that is not very constructive, but I'm happy to oblige. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by weegee
Just because you cannot cope on SO doesn’t mean you are not good in programming or you should leave programming. StackOverflow has been a confusing and a hard-to-cope-with community, there are brilliant programmers out there, not using SO and they still are writing softwares that are being sent to space. — weegee 53 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Draken
"The post is marked as a duplicate by six users and downvoted 5 times. No one offers me help" - Did the duplicates not help? If not, did you edit your question to explain why the duplicates didn't help? StackOverflow isn't really there to guide you on your first steps. It sounds a bit like you tried to learn to swim by jumping in the deep end and asking the experienced swimmers to teach you. There are better routes to learn then trying via StackOverflow — Draken 17 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Denys S&#233;guret
@Zoethetransgirl Why not announce in an answer here that SE inc. is preparing an answer ? — Denys Séguret 33 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Christian Gollhardt
Not anymore it seems :P @gnat — Christian Gollhardt 25 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gnat
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Erik A
If you have an actual proposal to help new programmers, we'd love to hear it. There are multiple efforts to help manage expectations and ask questions for beginners, such as the new ask a question wizard. And failed experiments, such as the mentorship project. It's something people are aware of and working on. — Erik A 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gnat
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe the transgirl
@DenysSéguret doesn't really matter, does it? SE is busy with a lot of answers, and there's not much to say about it aside that one is coming — Zoe the transgirl 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Hasta Dhana
this is just a copy of another answer minus the cry emoji — Hasta Dhana 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by xdtTransform
Take Coldsp33d for exemple. Join the site in late 2017. Hit reputation cap every day. Get to 100k in less than 2 years. — xdtTransform 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by OS2
What is the question? — OS2 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
"To spend four days figuring out whatever little problem I had, making thousands of Google searches" ... good for you, that is a giant leap towards professionalism. Keep doing it and those four days will turn into four minutes eventually. And I mean that sincerely. Meanwhile, Stack Overflow will never fail those who are willing to search and do their due diligence. — Gimby 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Winter Roberts
I believe my edit adequately addresses/includes comments from Magisch, weegee. Cerbrus, Draken, and Erik A. — Winter Roberts 1 min ago
 
8:12 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ivarni
@JamesKPolk This has nothing to do with any legal definition of "freedom of speech". SO can set their own rules for their own service and you can decide to abide by them or not. This does not in any way affect your "freedom of speech". Let's not go down that path of arguments because it leads nowhere. I haven't seen this new policy yet so I don't know if I agree with it or not but either way that argument is completely void. — ivarni 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by mario
It's a common misconception that SO doesn't enjoy noob questions. New users just happen to confuse lack of experience and lack of effort. You can ask the dumbest question in the universe, but still garner upvotes and answers - if, and only if, you make up for it with detail and attention to presentation. — mario 13 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Megan Risdal
@javadba can you describe what you mean by "extra fanfare"? I can guess, but it will be helpful to me if you can say a bit more. — Megan Risdal ♦ 16 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martin James
Maybe you could explain why, without a teacher's salary or prof tenure, skilled and experienced developers should wast...discar...flus......donate their free time to explaining, over, and over, and over, and over again, that array indexing out-of-bounds is undefined behaviour and that you cannot call a method on a null object reference? — Martin James 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Veljko89
That's all great and everything, I bet 80% of network's first questions was badly received ... you just delete them, earn badge and move on, next question you ask will be better, then next even better ... and that's end of the whole story. Getting a bit tired of all this crap going around, omg my question got down voted, everyone hates me, SO ain't welcoming ... as on your profile says, you got 5 questions (three of them got positive vote, two got no upvotes nor downvotes) ... which is great, you thought yourself how to ask a question, welcome to community ... — Veljko89 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Megan Risdal
And how many times did you click the robot? ;) — Megan Risdal ♦ 16 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martin James
I'm sorry, but a large set of new users are interested only in getting immediate answers without effort, in an attempt to leech/vampire their way into a course pass or complete paid work:( — Martin James 37 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
"Can we ask that the moderators and staff take into consideration the way they approach users who are among the top contributors to the site?" This doesn't look like an answer but rather like a new question. — Trilarion 19 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
"Do you really want moderators to respond to this question with a point-by-point refutation?" It looks like it is his objective, judging by the comment. — Trilarion 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by derloopkat
You can discuss the theory as much as you wish. In practice I do not reply a lot of messages from employers because I have to tell in advance if I'm interested or not. Either I have a question or they lack some relevant information on the ad. — derloopkat 32 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by F1Krazy
Nobody's mentioned this bit yet, so - "All of them have reputations ranging from 1000 to over 150,000. They earning more for acting this way." No they don't. Rep is earned by posting and answering questions. You don't gain rep for refusing to answer a question, though I accept you may lose rep if you answer that question and people downvote you for answering a low-quality question. It happens. — F1Krazy 14 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Steffen Winkler
@JamesKPolk Inclusion and respect are not the only values you should uphold, nor are they necessarily the most important ones. yes they are. But thanks for trying to tell me what I should believe in or what my values should be. — Steffen Winkler 50 secs ago
 
8:52 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Script47
'No one offers me help, and no one asks for a better example [...]' - Folk here shouldn't have to ask for that stuff, it's common courtesy to provide all the information if you want an answer to something. Again, I'm utterly baffled at the sheer arrogance shown here in several of your statements: 'Had Stack Overflow only shown me the answer I needed I never would have posted.'or '* I didn’t read the rules, I didn’t include a minimal, reproducible example, and it wasn’t very well put either.*' - We are not obliged to give you answers. Period. — Script47 52 secs ago
 
9:24 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Marco Bonelli
Wrong site man, use the main site for programming questions. — Marco Bonelli 1 min ago
 
9:44 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tadeusz Kopec
Saying that Tim's implication was out of line is a huge understatement. I have ill persons in my family and in my neighborhood and I find suggesting illness as an argument in discussion deeply insulting. Hey, SE, does your inclusiveness end here? — Tadeusz Kopec 32 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martin James
Be careful - I got a year ban for describing 'i=i++ + ++i' as 'Trash code' which, though it obviously is, must not be described as such:( — Martin James 57 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@mason I reject the premise in this case. — George Stocker ♦ 48 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by OrangeDog
Things were certainly getting nasty and a break was good for everyone. It should be obvious that such a message would offend people (whether that's their problem or yours is another can of worms). While I would like to express opinions about the underlying issues, such chat is not conducive to the useful operation of that room, and it is patently obvious that SO management deems it non-negotiably unacceptable to even suggest dissent from currently-fashionable opinion. — OrangeDog 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Luis Rico
@SteffenWinkler But thanks for trying to tell me what I should believe in or what my values should be. That sounds a lot like what SE is enforcing. Violating freedom of thought, speech or belief is the greatest attack to "The dignity of men" — Luis Rico 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Steffen Winkler
@LuisRico 'Freedom of thought' is not being touched in any kind here. And 'freedom of speech' isn't touched either. In the context of the mentioned law: 'Freedom of speech' is 'below' 'dignity of men'. What that means is: You are allowed to say whatever you want, as long as it doesn't infringe on the dignity of another person. And it is baffling to me why or how anyone could or would disagree with that. There are more specific laws sourrounding those two and various court cases deciding what is still an opinion/covered by freedom of speech and what infringes on another persons dignity. — Steffen Winkler 14 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Steffen Winkler
The only thing SE/SO asks is that everyone just respect eachother and play nice. How or why people spin this into a grand discussion about freedom of speech is unknown to me and I can only suspect that some people, like Polk, think that this is some kind of fight being fought that they need to win when in fact we are all on the same page. Nobody wants to be called foul words or disrespected. — Steffen Winkler 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
@OS2 No direct question. Q&A is sometimes used for announcements. The underlying question is "Why?". But probably we will never know exactly. — Trilarion 59 secs ago
 
10:16 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Sombrero Chicken
It's funny how the mods fundamentally disagree with each other too, look at the revision history, multiple people removing and adding the featured tag, sad really. — Sombrero Chicken 14 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Luis Rico
@SteffenWinkler Yes, everyone should respect everyone else. And that means also respecting their opinions and letting them express them, even if you disagree. Every freedom is above dignity as you cannot have the latter without the former — Luis Rico 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Luis Rico
@SteffenWinkler I know this particular issue is not about free speech in general, as it is a private company that can set their rules in their platform. But silencing dissenting opinions and removing people like the moderators affected its still pissing people off. Not to mention the lack of transparency — Luis Rico 1 min ago
 
10:40 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jon Harper
That the HR rep who is copy pasting these answers across Meta sites is not bothering to engage anywhere means she likely has been told not to. I find this gravely concerning, since she is the voice of the company's position on this. — Jon Harper 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Steffen Winkler
@LuisRico offending someone is not 'having an opinion'. Sorry. We can certainly discuss what counts as offensive and wether or not deliberately disrespecting someone is an offense (in my eyes it is but I can see how some people might not see it as such) but if we can't agree that verbally attacking someone/offending someone is not something that should be 'protected' then we can stop discussing this right here and now. — Steffen Winkler 26 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Luis Rico
@SteffenWinkler Apparently Monica's opinion was deemed offensive by the company, so was Caleb's. So yes offending someone can be just 'having an opinion'. — Luis Rico 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by walen
The explanation Cesar M gave here is exactly the same TylerH gave an hour later: the room was getting an increase in not-nice things being said, and not every RO was there to take action. The fact that Cesar's answer is at -25 while Tyler's is at +22 right now makes absolutely zero sense. Disagree with SE Inc. as much as you want but don't use downvotes to target a person. Don't shoot the messenger. — walen 15 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Steffen Winkler
@LuisRico that isn ' — Steffen Winkler 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by GhostCat
@LuisRico But then: we haven't seen that discussion. Sure, I have a lot of trust in that respected moderators "did the right thing". And I have not a lot of trust into SE.com any more. But beyond that, I haven't seen that "discussion" that lead to the firing of Monica. The real problem for me is how SE.com handled that conflict. And just to remind you: even (former) mods might have disrespectful opinions, and actually make them public. meta.stackexchange.com/a/334064/285661GhostCat 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Steffen Winkler
@LuisRico "Apparently Monica's opinion was deemed offensive by the company, so was Caleb's." uhm. No. And what does that have to do with my comment? "So yes offending someone can be just 'having an opinion'. " which is exactly what I was saying, just phrased the other way around: I said that what is an opinion and what is an offense is debatable. — Steffen Winkler 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Steffen Winkler
@LuisRico also don't you, or anyone else that is commenting here, find it curious that all these moderators stepping down only stepped down after what happened to Monica but didn't twitch one finger when one of their fellow moderators, Aza, got bullied and harassed to a point where the only option she saw viable was stepping down? Nobody came to her aid. Instead all of them are rallying against a change of the CoC that will prevent such an extreme case of verbal abuse from happening again. At least that is the impression I'm getting. — Steffen Winkler 43 secs ago
 
11:20 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Steffen Winkler
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lankymart
Air conditioning what's that??... sarcasmLankymart 24 secs ago
 
11:42 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Brian Knoblauch
Early on everyone was willing to overlook the shortcomings as it was an exciting time building the knowledge bank. Now there is little new (in the general case) to be added so it really comes down to "how do I do x old thing but in y new language". Which is quite boring really. So, the shortcomings of old become more obvious and disillusionment sets in. Pretty typical lifecycle of a knowledgebase. — Brian Knoblauch 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Luis Rico
@SteffenWinkler I've seen Aza's resignation post, but two wrongs don't make a right. Besides, what do you achieve stepping down for Aza? She wasn't forced, she stepped down herself. This is to pressure SE regarding their bad practices — Luis Rico 48 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Stuart Whitehouse
@SteffenWinkler- indeed it's curious that all these seemingly level-headed people didn't react to the "extreme case of verbal abuse". In fact as far as I'm aware they haven't mentioned this "bullying and harassment" at all. One or two have mentioned they thought Monica was wrong but words like polite and respectful seem to be common. It seems to be one person making some very strong allegations against, well everyone really (mods, SE themselves etc), and a lot of other people whose behaviour doesn't seem compatible with those allegations. — Stuart Whitehouse 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Script47
@SteffenWinkler 'Instead all of them are rallying against a change of the CoC that will prevent such an extreme case of verbal abuse from happening again' - Can you quote what verbal abuse was talking place and how the be-nice policy wouldn't suffice? — Script47 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Script47
@GeorgeStocker can you stop deleting my comment and instead respond so we can conclude this? — Script47 5 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Stocker
Moderator Note: To reiterate: We're keeping a close eye on the comments here. If you want to have a discussion take it to the Meta Room (chat). — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Steffen Winkler
@LuisRico "She wasn't forced, she stepped down herself." how is bullying someone and harassing them not 'being forced'? Do you even understand what you write here? You are essentially saying that there is nothing wrong with someone being bullied. You are saying it is okay to harm another human being for no reason. I suggest you think deep and hard about what kind of human you want to be. — Steffen Winkler 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@Twenty yeah, it's a terrible system for any sort of collaborative editing. Or just more than one person editing a post. Even if you have 2k rep, you get into situations where you edit a post and somebody overwrites your edit immediately after. It's even worse if several people are actively trying to edit one post (as opposed to randomly happening to) - say, a community wiki post that two or more people try to contribute to is a nightmare to manage. — VLAZ 12 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@Script47 No. Take it to the meta room. You're asking for a discussion. Not here. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
 
12:20 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Brandon_J
@SteffenWinkler I did. — Brandon_J just now
 
12:40 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Heretic Monkey
Whatever the tag name, please do read the main help center article on tags and make sure the tag excerpt isn't that quoted regurgitation of marketing drivel. — Heretic Monkey 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
I am so sorry to see you go. I voted for you and you are one of my favorite mods. Sometimes we were travelling different roads, but I believe we shared the same goal. — Dalija Prasnikar 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Heretic Monkey
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
Some may work on legacy systems where it is not economically viable to make changes to the entire code base just to accommodate a new version of the compiler (I don't know if that is the case for Delphi). And for the very conservative and risk-adverse minded, risk breaking the system by a compiler update (this seldom happen in practice, though). — Peter Mortensen 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
Some may work on legacy systems where it is not economically viable to make changes to the entire code base just to accommodate a new version of the compiler (I don't know if that is the case for Delphi). And for the very conservative and risk-adverse minded, risk breaking the system by a compiler update and/or framework (this very seldom happens in practice, though. ). — Peter Mortensen 33 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by javadba
@MeganRisdal Maybe having extra bells and whistles does not distract you - it does to me and de-focuses on writing the question. The new gui uses real estate that could otherwise be left blank or put other actually useful information. How much time do you spend writing questions - pls take that into account vs others for whom this may be a more frequent activity. — javadba 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
Updating may result in a higher quality product (e.g. higher robustness due to a more strict compiler, with more error checking). Compiler bugs may also have been fixed (though that usually only applies to some extreme edge cases). — Peter Mortensen 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ramesh Rajendran
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@DalijaPrasnikar thank you so much. I like seeing you around fwiw. It's comforting to see other strong women active on the site. I know a lot of people don't like me saying that, but I do like to have women around me in the sea of programming. You've always been level headed, you would make a good moderator yourself. Though now is not the best time to entice people into the position! — Yvette Colomb 27 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by javadba
"extra fanfare" : the entire top bar is higher now /takes more space - to make space for the robot and those question balloons. In addition there is that whole right hand nav area explaining how to ask a question: that is a big waste of real estate. The screen real estate is no longer dedicated to the content of the question being entered. — javadba 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by GrumpyCrouton
I'm sorry but, I don't really understand the problem you are having. "The post is marked as a duplicate by six users and downvoted 5 times."; The duplicates should have answered your question, there would be no need for someone to mark it a duplicate and also answer your question. If this was your first question, you likely didn't have any rep to lose, so the 5 downvotes didn't negatively impact you except perceptionally. Even perceptionally, this should have told you that your question didn't contain all the needed information to be useful. — GrumpyCrouton 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by javadba
@MeganRisdal Having a minimal interface to focus on the task at hand is one reason for google search's popularity: pls allow for those of us that feel this minimalism were important and have spent much time on this site as a result. — javadba 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by GrumpyCrouton
"I didn’t read the rules, I didn’t include a minimal, reproducible example, and it wasn’t very well put either. Mind I was TWELVE YEARS OLD."; What does your age really have to do with any of the things you didn't do? You being 12 at the time does not magically give every contributor here the ability to read your mind or answer questions which do not have enough information to answer, and it doesn't exempt you from the rules just because you didn't read them. — GrumpyCrouton 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by tweray
I thought SO is R13 so as it obviously indicates it won't really fit for a 12yo to visit. I strongly suggest to follow age restrictions on internet because there's usually a good reason for them be in place. — tweray 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Olivier Rogier
I don't talk about to improve the How to ask page but the **Ask a question**** process. — Olivier Rogier 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pekka 웃
[ Boson ] New comment posted by GrumpyCrouton
My experience was very similar to yours. I didn't read the rules, I didn't put my question together very well. It was poorly received, and maybe I lashed out for a bit out of frustration but, looking back now; I realize the problem was with myself and people here were actually trying to help me. I didn't do my part, and they definitely let me know that, and I grew as a contributor and a programmer. It's easy to shift blame, not so easy to look back on what you did wrong. Consider contributors answering the same questions over and over again, it's just not sustainable. Quality is important. — GrumpyCrouton 56 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by javadba
@MeganRisdal "and how many times did you click the robot" Using that as the primary A/B test criteria is a "fail" in terms of accounting for usability concerns: it only says whether the page were completely non-functional or not -ie an experienced user were so confused as to unintentionally end up in a full help screen. It does not tell you that the page is now significantly less usable than previously. — javadba 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by GrumpyCrouton
"I'd like to think that we don't punish people for potential future crimes." - Well, isn't that basically what this entire ordeal stemmed from? — GrumpyCrouton 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
Thank you. I am currently on strike stackoverflow.com/users/4267244/dalija-prasnikar?tab=profile showing support for all moderators, the ones that have left and the ones that are still here. This is not something I decided overnight, it has been boiling for a long time. I believe now is the time to make the stand and show that without community there is no Stack Exchange. If we cannot have civil and open discussions about all matters then we have nothing. — Dalija Prasnikar 13 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by canon
The why he's leaving is rather important. He chose to provide additional context for that and you've elected to overrule him. While I appreciate the feature tag, the rollback is unfortunate. — canon 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe the transgirl
I saw "8 minutes ago" and thought this was a new election :] — Zoe the transgirl 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by javadba
@MeganRisdal "and how many times did you click the robot" Using that as the primary A/B test criteria is a poor qualifier in terms of accounting for usability concerns. It only says whether the page were completely non-functional or not -ie an experienced user were so confused as to unintentionally end up in a full help screen. It does not idenfity that the page is now significantly less usable than previously. — javadba 1 min ago
 
1:48 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
@walen Also, the majority of downvotes came on this answer before Cesar unfroze the room (upon mods notifying him that they were available to monitor it, of course--he didn't just unfreeze it willy nilly) -- the downvotes should read as "we disagree with this explanation and/or course of action", not "we don't like Cesar as a person". Understanding this disconnect between content and poster is very important, especially on Meta. — TylerH 40 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
@walen I don't think they're "exactly the same"; in fact I would go so far as to say there is almost zero overlap in them. The entire reason I posted my answer was because I felt this one didn't explain why they closed it, and required people to make the jump from "we were busy" to "thus we couldn't patrol the chatroom", the latter of which also carries some big assumptions, like "does staff typically/need to patrol chatrooms?" — TylerH 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
@RameshRajendran This isn't a duplicate of that. It's asking for improvements do a different part of the site. — TylerH 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by canon
The why he's leaving is rather important to the community. This goes beyond a few fond farewells and well-wishing. He chose to provide additional context for that and you've elected to overrule him. While I appreciate the feature tag, the rollback seems unnecessary and unfortunate, despite George's arguments. — canon 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
FWIW when I read the blog, I interpreted it as this view becoming the new asking view for everyone, not just new users. Maybe I misread it, though. Also FWIW I agree that the fanfare is too Neopets-esque (which would take more than a comment to fully unpack) and I will be removing the content with user styles/user scripts as soon as it is presented to me. — TylerH 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ramesh Rajendran
Please check the answer from that link. Think yourself before write a question as same as if you want ask a question/doubts to someone face to face. — Ramesh Rajendran 26 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robusto
I like that your gravatar is the kanji for "beauty." Very classy, and a fitting emblem for an exemplary career here. Good luck to you. — Robusto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
Also to be fair the traditional asking UI also shows a right-hand side bar with links and guidance on how to ask, it just said different stuff. So that part is not really significantly different. — TylerH 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by philipxy
Thanks very much. You jump to wrong conclusions re responders though. (I wonder why you aren't disabused of those by now.) Still--the biggest problem with the site is that it does not make make enough of an effort to inform people who participate despite knowing that they are uninformed--human nature being what it is. Coincidentally--The best characterization I've seen of good verbal responding is to write as one would to one's boss or sibling's 12-yr-old. But that, it turns out, is unexpectedly & unsustainably florid--without an explicit requirement--human nature being what it is. — philipxy 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ramesh Rajendran
[ Boson ] New comment posted by walen
@TylerH Maybe my non-native English is not enough to get some subtleties, but to me this: "I did notice a gradual increase in charged and potentially offensive (and some definitely offensive) language/terms/messages being used [...] I don't blame Tim for locking the room, especially considering I, at least, was not around to help" and this "we might need to freeze things to help us keep up and effectively do our jobs. Especially when those places start getting dangerous and/or toxic with users insulting each other and dropping increasingly worrying words there" are essentially the same. — walen 58 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by walen
@TylerH Indeed it is important to understand that disconnect, thus my comment asking people to actually do so when I noticed such disparate voting patterns in answers where the only difference (that I could tell, at least) was that one was written by a SO employee, and the other one was not. That didn't look to me like a "we don't agree with that explanation" downvoting pattern -- especially after noticing that yours was upvoted. — walen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Olivier Rogier
[ Boson ] New comment posted by opa
@walen keep in mind that TimPost essentially said "we don't have to discuss our reasoning for freezing full stop, also we are low on numbers", but that has since been deleted from this post. I wish I took a capture of that to keep the context of the situation. — opa 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ramesh Rajendran
No! I got your point. but my point is why I need to show How to Ask a Question in UX process. So hope everyone have some basic knowledge for how to ask a question tom someone. That's why SO didn't show in UX side before asking a question. But if an user asked wrongly more than 5 time, then background thread will intimate them, please read the FAQ otherwise you will be terminated . That's why I am thinking this is enough, No more UX changes needed for this. :) — Ramesh Rajendran 41 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by walen
@opa Well, I didn't see that comment (it was a comment, right? or was the post edited and its revision redacted?), but that would definitely set the mood for a mass downvoting of the answer if such a statement was seen as part of it. Thanks for the input. — walen 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@DalijaPrasnikar I support this action. — Yvette Colomb 25 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by opa
@walen yes it was a comment. — opa 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by scohe001
You paint yourself as the victim in this post, but for Yvette to respond with "you are way out of line ... that kind of comment will get you kicked" and for Tim to step in, it's hard for me to believe that you really "didn't attack or insult anyone" and "merely stated [your belief]." — scohe001 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Olivier Rogier
@RameshRajendran What about did you talk? Have you understand my proposal? The number of bad question, unclear, too broad, bad formatted... proves the opposite of what you say now about something I did not write. First you said that my post feature-request "Better guiding new user..." is a duplicate of *Let's improve the How to Ask page(s)", that is false. And now you say that all users know how to create a question, that is false. My proposal is made to help newbies and moonstruck users in the asking question process and to lighten the work of moderators and administrators. — Olivier Rogier 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jonathan De Badrihaye
At my office we have some standing desks available and not everyone can request them. Perhaps that could be an answer as well.. "Yes, some that are shared between employees" — Jonathan De Badrihaye 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Olivier Rogier
@RameshRajendran What about did you talk? Have you understand my post? The number of bad question, unclear, too broad, bad formatted... proves the opposite of what you say. First you said that my post feature-request "Better guiding new user..." is a duplicate of "Let's improve the How to Ask page(s)", that is false. And now you say that SO hopes that users know how to create a question, that is false. My proposal is made to help newbies and moonstruck users in the asking question process and to lighten the work of moderators and administrators using primary UX practices. — Olivier Rogier 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rene
Why don't you mention the single upvote it got? — rene 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Olivier Rogier
@RameshRajendran The number of unclear, too broad, bad formatted... questions, proves the opposite of what you say. First you said that my feature-request "Better guiding new user..." is a duplicate of "Let's improve the How to Ask page(s)", that is false. And now you say that SO hopes that users know how to create a question, that is false. My proposal is made to help newbies and moonstruck users in the asking question process and to lighten the work of moderators and administrators, while not disturbing proficient users, using simple and easy to made primary UX practices. — Olivier Rogier 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by GrumpyCrouton
"SO should be, and often is, a place of thoughtful discussion" - I think your premise here is flawed, SO is not a place for discussion, it's not a forum. — GrumpyCrouton 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by OverLordGoldDragon
@rene That happened an hour later where the 'damage' was already done - also, myself included till recently and I bet many others, don't know how to expand the score count — OverLordGoldDragon 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Olivier Rogier
@RameshRajendran The number of bad questions proves the opposite of what you say. First you said that my feature-request "Better guiding new user..." is a duplicate of "Let's improve the How to Ask page(s)", that is false. And now you say that SO hopes that all users know how to create a question, that is false. My proposal is made to help newbies and moonstruck users in the asking question process, in raw as wizard mode, and so to lighten the work of moderators and administrators, while not disturbing proficient users, using simple and easy ways to implement primary UX practices. — Olivier Rogier 27 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by OverLordGoldDragon
@GrumpyCrouton Wasn't sure which exact word to use, but this and this have a close-enough gist - there are many others with +1000 upvotes; the idea's to get a diversity of solutions and invite critical thought — OverLordGoldDragon 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by GrumpyCrouton
@OverLordGoldDragon this question you linked to may have 0 downvotes, but it does have votes to close as opinion based. This question you linked to has the same amount of downvotes as yours. I also don't think you should assume other peoples voting patterns are based on the comment on your question, you never know why anyone downvotes, perhaps they just found it "Not Useful". — GrumpyCrouton 18 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by OverLordGoldDragon
@GrumpyCrouton "flag if no longer needed" - that's great to know, thanks — OverLordGoldDragon 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
I don't know if I would call a question at -2 "derailed". You've received four answers already. Yes, sometimes bad luck happens and you lose some rep, but it's not even 5 rep lost here from those two downvotes. I would not be upset to trade a few reputation points for four answers to questions when I have them, personally. And anyway, your question is at +3/-2 when I click on it, so it seems reports of its destruction were greatly exaggerated. — TylerH 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Heretic Monkey
Some people don't like code golf-like questions, especially when answers are kibitzed (your comment to juanpa.arrivillaga's answer about it being "far from the simplest solution" is particularly telling). There's actually a site for that: Code Golf. — Heretic Monkey 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by OverLordGoldDragon
@GrumpyCrouton Their net-scores were never negative, nor comments as discouraging - and while I don't have a mind-reader, the first-impressions effect can be clear — OverLordGoldDragon 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by GrumpyCrouton
@OverLordGoldDragon "discouraging" is very subjective. I don't see anything discouraging in any of the questions you linked; just humans asking for clarifications with issues they see in the question. How do you know their net-scores were "never negative"? And why does it matter if they ever were? They aren't now. All 3 questions linked here are performing very similarly. — GrumpyCrouton 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Patrice
On a site the scale of SO, there will be people who vote for wrong reasons. But..... If contributors could stop IMMEDIATELY thinking anyone downvoting them does it without (valid) reason... A lot of people's first experience or SO would be immensely better — Patrice 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by OverLordGoldDragon
@GrumpyCrouton Discouraging in my question, not theirs - I know because I frequently checked upon them for some time per an ongoing comments discussion, and it matters in light of the ideas noted in this meta question (casting as illegitimate, etc). — OverLordGoldDragon 1 min ago
 

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