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3:00 PM
Mainly regarding the clearTimeout setTimeout stuff and any considerations I should worry about regarding unintended interference with user input
But general code critiques are also welcome :)
don't use var
oh, duh
@Vap0r add a debounce
and doesn't a re carry state with .test?
I guess not
@Vap0r Use lodash debounce instead of clearing/setting timeouts.
3:02 PM
@BenFortune @MadaraUchiha debounce noted
ahh it does with g
@BenjaminGruenbaum Are you still working on the WebRTC HLS thing?
Madara is lodash required? Isn't debounce simple enough to implement via my own programatic stuff?
!!> const re = /a/g; [re.test('a'), re.test('a')];
@rlemon [true,false]
3:04 PM
@rlemon you gave me a pretty simple debounce once IIRC
@Vap0r Sure, but seeing how you can npm i lodash.debounce and have it without including all of lodash, don't see the big deal.
@Vap0r I think technically it was a throttle.
but solved the same problem
Good point
@MadaraUchiha true
@jAndy yes, you're ready to do business together :D?
3:05 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum haha.. I'd actually wanted to get some info about it again, can you link me some stuff
about... what it can do and what it can't do and of course the $$$
@jAndy peer5.com globe.peer5.com - but if you want more info/stuff talk to me rather than sales.
@BenFortune so if I'm understanding correctly. The time on the debounce would be the window for the card capture to complete?
I can A) get you a better deal than what we have in /pricing (which is already much lower than old CDNs) and B) Make sure you're treated with same same respect and seriousness as our bigger customers like Sony and Turner.
aight
@Vap0r I didn't read your code before you mentioned it lol, you're already doing one
3:06 PM
Basically, the same treatment as a national TV station or a multinational media conglomerate. Of course if you think you're pushing enough traffic to get to that tier yourself then I can still get you a better deal :D
Mostly depends on the speed and tolerance of the scanner
@jAndy How much traffic are you pushing each month? (In TB) Also @bitten and us are still working together btw since the last discussion, you're welcome to talk to him (or his manager Stephan) about how Peer5 is working for them.
Actually, what are you using to scan them @Vap0r
@BenFortune USB card scanner
Reads as keyboard input
@Vap0r Maybe have a look at webusb
3:07 PM
Will do
@MadaraUchiha My understanding is that lodash does basically what I do for debounce. Why use their function?
@BenjaminGruenbaum I can't even tell right now, we launched a video site which streams 720 and 1080p HLS Videos, view count is still in the "low thousands", but we already experience edgy cases when a lot of traffic hits the servers
@Vap0r Battle tested (and also, just tested)
I will have numbers in a couple of weeks
@MadaraUchiha fair, thank you
I mostly agree with Madara, but left padd gives me some twitches when using super simple utils
3:09 PM
@jAndy you can integrate Peer5 in 5 minutes and it's free for two weeks while you evaluate.
@BenjaminGruenbaum is there any API I would have to include somewhere between our HLS stream and Peer5?
Here is an example (not too big) client I had open on my computer - just looking we have 1.5 times better UX with us than without us and less rebuffers.
@rlemon Sure, but lodash isn't made by an angsty teen
@rlemon okay
@MadaraUchiha I said mostly agree.
3:10 PM
Not to mention you can't remove or alter existing releases anymore if there are dependants
@BenjaminGruenbaum why so little P2P offload?
@BenjaminGruenbaum 🙄
@jAndy just two script tags - one includes the WebRTC stuff and the other intercepts when an hls.js instance is being created and sets the pLoader and fLoader
firewalls and old browsers?
3:11 PM
sounds like nice magic
someone said magic?
!!magic
(∩ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)⊃━☆゚. * ・ 。 ᵀᴴᴱ ᴳᴬᴹᴱ
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum The size of continents on that globe is crazy
@FlorianMargaine that's the user's overall traffic, not everything has high concurrency and not everything has multiple users at the same time. Peer5 will offload things in p2p if it improves UX, sometimes HTTP is just faster.
I guess I have to make some calls especially about law and legal stuff.. I guess we would have to update the terms about client and that we kinda "use" the client computer for re-streaming and stuff
3:12 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum gotcha
Second aligners in as of last night. Looks like every 2 weeks for 2-3 days my teeth are going to hurt like a bitch :(
@jAndy not really magic (the loader stuff).
European laws about that stuff are.. pretty, serious
@jAndy we have a kit about that, we meet GDPR requirements and we don't store any identifiable information on our servers. We had quite a bit of work to make sure we're complaint with everything - we work with some national broadcasting agencies that are under a lot of regulation.
Peer5 only streams what you're directly watching right now and stuff you're already downloading anyway, we only try to share from a Peer when it improves their UX (by lower delay and faster and clearer path to the server) and we only download from p2p when it makes sense.
ok sounds fair enough. I'm still sure a user of Peer5 has to inform the client about it anyways, somehow
user1596138
3:15 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Is there an extension to block outbound traffic from you?
user1596138
I don't want to participate.
@jAndy well, not really, no.
user1596138
How can you just serve P2P through a browser without me knowing haha
user1596138
Bandwidth isn't free yo!
@BenjaminGruenbaum would be too good to be true, but I'll come back to you
3:16 PM
@Jhawins why? we only seed from unmetered connections which we spent quite a lot of time making sure it works and it's congestion controlled so that we never take traffic that would be spent elsewhere.
I basically can download the Peer5 lib's and just implement it for 2 weeks?
@Jhawins literally "bandwidth isn't free" means "Peer5 will disable itself automatically on your device"
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Ah then it's already blocked because I'm metered, Cox
user1596138
How do you know about my 1TB plan?
@jAndy You don't need to download anything, just two script tags or if you feel really strongly about that an NPM package.
3:17 PM
alright
I don't know why, but I have this feeling we're getting fucked by Privacy Policy of European Union or something :P
@Jhawins that's a good question - we pay a lot of money for a database that maps IPs to metered and unmetered connections basically and then we look at your IP (which we don't store BTW, nor do we store any analytics about our users directly - only aggregated stuff).
but I'll come back to you after talking to some guys
user1596138
So. You don't actually know :P but you try
Hi. Does anyone here use vscode and multi-root-workspaces? I'm trying to create a launch program in the launch configurations section but I can't get it wo work. Anyone have something like that working?
user1596138
I'm sure you can see why someone would be uneasy
3:18 PM
@jAndy that's a good concern to have, it's risky and GDPR is something we take very seriously and worked hard to make sure we're up-to-standards with.
@ggb667 sorry, not me. I use ST3
anyone in Canada do the photo cheque cashing?
do they flag you for cashing a bunch at once?
3:19 PM
@Jhawins well, I think it's an expectation problem rather than a product problem - but obviously anything that'd surprise the user isn't a good thing. That said, I believe people benefit more faster video which we provide than the surprise bothers them. That said if Peer5 downloaded more stuff for you I'd totally change my mind.
@SterlingArcher pleb
am offended
I have like 8 cheques and I don't feel like going to the bank
Humble Bundle has a bunch of SEGA games for PS4 available today - humblebundle.com/games/… - including games like Alien Isolation.
@rlemon Not that I'm aware
3:19 PM
guess I'll find out. :P
work gets pissy when I don't cash my pay
I've probably done 8 at once at one point
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Well right but I know how P2P works. And if I want to seed something I will explicitly seed it.. I don't want random websites all over sending outbound from my browser for other users.
So, im in the process of DLing FC5
@hilli_micha dang all PC games
@rlemon it better be fun
3:20 PM
@Jhawins the part that sold me on the company is the fact we only download and share things you'd download anyway, and by leeching locally sometimes you pay less for network costs and get faster video. That has one caveat though, Peer5 typically means your video is downloaded at a higher rendition - so that if before you had enough bandwidth with the server to get 480p with Peer5 you often get 1080p.
@KamilSolecki it is
So the auto quality switching (ABR) is interesting to discuss in that regard.
@rlemon I sure hope so, otherwise I'm billing Canada!
@rlemon Not a Canadian, but in the U.S., my bank has a fix dollar amounts I can cash in a 24-hour and 30-day window. They make these limit explicitly clear and I don't get in trouble if I go over; I just can't submit any more checks until the deposits fall out of the time window
user1596138
3:21 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'd be appalled if you downloaded things I hadn't already downloaded haha that'd definitely be insane
@Jhawins Well, we only share the video while you're watching it anyway, as soon as you close the tab it's all gone. (Not due to a technical problem, a UX decision). I definitely see why you'd be concerned about this though.
@apsillers I'm not concerned about it being cleared right away. I just don't wanna get flagged and have my account frozen
user1596138
Look I am on the web for one single thing. To consume
@rlemon my bank has a $2500/day photo cashing limit
I can imagine a scenario where signing up for photo cashing and cashing large amounts of money right away could be nefarious.
3:22 PM
I mean... the basic idea is golden @BenjaminGruenbaum. Why let only a few machines server all the data, if you easily can spread and peer2peer HLS chunks around
user1596138
I'm not here to provide. That's my point
@Jhawins with BitTorrent, upload destroys the rest of your internet connection and the rest of your browsing becomes slow.
@SterlingArcher for clearing it? or for using it period?
I guess I can call the bank and ask.
user1596138
But I get a choice to run it
It's just a limit -- you can only deposit that much per day
I'm not sure if there's a monthly limit below that
3:23 PM
@Jhawins look, the internet isn't neutral - companies like Netflix and YouTube have servers in every ISP, if companies like @jAndy's want to have a shot at competing with them in a leveled playing field without literally buying a server in every ISP Peer5 lets them do that.
user1596138
I get the vision but web users are here to consume. It's just like running secret cryptomining JS in my browser.
user1596138
It's thievery
However photo checks take longer to clear, but you're obviously in no hurry lol
however, it also sounds like peer5 like "occupies" a viewers upload bandwith pretty much, which brings me back to the privacy policy concerns and convenience for the user
I have similar limits on my account. but it is a clear limit. if I deposit $5k they'll clear 2500 and the rest waits 7 days
3:23 PM
Oh wow I don't have that
@jAndy it's SCTP, basically anything the user does takes priority over it.
if he realises his porn upload is getting freezed while watching a video
@SterlingArcher my main concern is because it is 8 pay cheques :/
so porn upload goes first?
I mean they'll usually give 10% of the check right away, and the rest clears next business day
user1596138
3:24 PM
Your company wants to profit off of my bandwidth, my power consumption, my home infrastructure, to directly avoid paying the costs themselves
@rlemon just give 'em a jingle to be safe
Hmm so customer just send me a report of our website being blocked due to "medium risk" rating at mcafee. - Yet when I check mcafee, the website is listed as "minimal risk" (which seems to be the default).
user1596138
Maybe I should get a payout for running your for profit server out of my browser?
user1596138
Idk. That's just my opinion. I do not like it as a consumer
@Jhawins we want to profit over the algorithmics that enable us to match people efficiently, we don't benefit from your power consumption or infrastructure.
3:25 PM
yea I have to admit/agree to @Jhawins. Prices seem pretty "rich" for the typically customer of yours
@jAndy The Game
5
lol
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Cmon zucc
because most people "Like us", which don't cant' afford so much money on insane servers for streaming hd videos in the beginning
@jAndy which is the problem we're aiming at solving.
3:26 PM
possibly don't like to pay 250/month at least
guys I have a dumb react-redux question. Suppose you wanted to take the connected actions and state variables and construct a specific object out of them, which would not be checked for equality. Is there a way to do this?
@jAndy which is why I said you can go through me, most companies we work with have server costs in the tens of thousands.
user1596138
When I share P2P to another user you don't have to pay for bandwidth, right?
user1596138
Cause I am doing it.
I mean if I think about it and I tell my partner about the idea, he prolly will answer me like "gf yourself Andy, for 250 I rent 3 new servers with GB connections"
user1596138
3:26 PM
I am paying to run my machine so that I can watch this sports game, not so you can use my machine as a streaming server for other users lol
:D
ok .. I will
I still love the idea and the concept tho
why does the GAME message receive so many stars everytime
user1596138
> most companies we work with have server costs in the tens of thousands... Our users bear that cost tho :D
because you're special and everyone loves you
just embrace it
@Jhawins yes, but you're describing that like you're losing something from it - like we're just randomly distributing the video. Think about a thousand people watching a new "Game of Thrones" episode in the same neighborhood - the neighborhood's bandwidth is 1Gbps and every stream is 1Mbps. Without Peer5 the internet comes to a halt in the neighborhood and congestion control means none of those 1000 people will be able to properly watch the video.
@jAndy so you can remember it
user1596138
3:28 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Apply that logic to a hidden crypto script.
@Jhawins with p2p, those 1000 users can watch the video at teh same time and the line is clear.
user1596138
What do I lose? I wasn't running my CPU at 100% anyway
@OliverSalzburg If I was to update and publish your old chat dark theme, how would I license it?
@Jhawins but a hidden crypto script doesn't actually do anything that benefits the uesr
@BenjaminGruenbaum you figure local areas out for p2p transport?
user1596138
3:29 PM
Neither does this for me as the user losing upload bandwidth.
so you sacrifice a small amount of your pc to maintain higher quality video
makes sense to me
user1596138
I should download what I consume and move on. Not run a loop
@jAndy it's more complicated than that - but yes.
@SterlingArcher we get it, you vape./
user1596138
3:29 PM
Meh. Hope Chrome and other browsers give a stock option to block you and similar companies. That's all I got to say
@Jhawins of course it does, without Peer5 they would have a lot more rebuffering and a worse user experience. Cost savings is a thing but the main selling point is improved UX. Most of our clients aren't companies looking to save money - it's companies dealing with delivery issues.
@SterlingArcher I want to see the full version :(
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum You mean someone else is benefiting me? Meaning I am benefiting someone else, not me
@SterlingArcher at no point in that video was "cool" appropriate
user1596138
So no. The user doesn't get anything out of it. A different user does and so on
3:30 PM
@Jhawins sure you are, how familiar are you with how video works on the internet?
@Jhawins sure, just realize that if you do so - you'll be seeing that "loading indicator" a lot more.
user1596138
I don't think I will. I don't now. The video services I use pay for their own servers
@Jhawins This is the fundamental concept of society
user1596138
@KendallFrey Let's not go full tard
@Jhawins video on the internet is segmented - you download a manifest which gives you a list of segments (chunks of video) and then you make XHR requests to those. If 5 people are watching the same video in the same neighborhood they can download 1/5th of the video each from the server and the rest from eachother. If 1080p is 10Mbps and their available bandwidth is just 5mbps each that effectively means they can stream the video now.
just sayin'
user1596138
3:32 PM
Anyway that's just how I feel about it. Obviously a lot of people don't feel that way. I see the reasoning I see benefits but it's my connection that I maintain and my machine and I want to control that.
Now, I can't say that every single user benefits from it - I'm saying that the typical user (95th percentile) benefits from it.
user1596138
Can it exist as a distributed service or will a company always have to be at the heart like yours?
@Jhawins I totally understand your concern and we've been trying to work with the standards bodies to enable selective and congested blocking so you'd be better able to control how WebRTC work.
@BenjaminGruenbaum So if I may clarify, I'm not an expert on streaming video in any sense of the word, that's why when I watch a Youtube video for example, it doesn't just load it at all once, it just loads whatever segment I happen to be watching at the moment. Yes?
@hilli_micha yes, although Youtube cheats - they have a cache server in your ISP
user1596138
3:34 PM
@towc What company is it?
@Jhawins Peer5 is a distributed service, if our servers go down all is OK. You need a centralized entity for signalling (how peers find eachother). In BitTorrent there are two networks typically - one contains a DHT (distributed hash table) and the rest is the actual people you're sharing with.
The only reason there are central components in the system is so we can connect you to other people faster. The difference between 80% p2p and 90% p2p is the difference between 5x server capacity and 10x server capacity.
hello pople
@BenjaminGruenbaum in github, when there are votes and it says "and 4 more", can you expand those and see who?
could everyone help my with client side prediction?
@Neoares is Wintergatan confirmed youtube.com/watch?v=5ZBb0jidgwQ
3:36 PM
@rlemon I'm not sure, but I don't think it's close and I'd like to keep it open for 72 hours anyway. If worse comes to worst we can just do the voting elsewhere
Again I love the concept of Peer5 the only question is the pricing. Respectively, if you don't care about "network traffic" or be nice the data centers, at what point does it pay to use a peer2peer stream solution over just buying more servers and distribute your videos through clouds @BenjaminGruenbaum
me are not english
@BenjaminGruenbaum sure, I was just wondering
randos push off the regulars, then the vote hands have less meaning
@KendallFrey lol that guy looks like the most-popular spanish youtuber
@badboy24 you asked this a few times before. it's not a real question. format a proper question with your code, sample input, and expected output.
3:38 PM
at least with the glasses on
@jAndy well, p2p is great for dealing with spikes, you can use Peer5 and turn it on/off again based on load so that you use your servers otherwise.
lemon
github?
@rlemon should I go normal or hard? Hows the difficulty - well scaled?
3:38 PM
@badboy24 anywhere the code is easily shared
@rlemon you can with the api, at least
@KamilSolecki are you bad at games?
preferably somewhere it can also be run.
github.com
I beat it on hard, wasn't that crazy
3:39 PM
@Loktar I usually play games on hard
@Loktar He's terrible at L4D2 😋
ill take it then thx
@Loktar phrasing?
@Loktar now, God of War is a tad harder :P
not sure what it's like on normal, but hard was even easy once you get a silencer and partners
3:39 PM
at least, for me
@rlemon yeah playing that on hard, it's challenging actually which is nice
ohh man some of those boss fights are brutal
not playing on GoW mode, the one right before that
1-2 hit deaths.
3:41 PM
well, I tried to help you @badboy24 but you seem to just wanna troll.
s/message/user/
@Jhawins btw, one of the things we're focusing on is better communication with end users, surprising people isn't our intention and never was - the idea is to scale services in a way that lets a small site compete with internet giants - if you have any suggestions that wouldn't harm UX and would help users that'd be welcome.
what the fuck
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum In my opinion most users wouldn't even care nor understand what you're doing lol
whack the fut
3:42 PM
@overexchange: NEVER EVER edit someone's answer if you don't know what you're talking about.
user1596138
But that leaves the potential for some article to come out down the road that flips them on their lid because they don't understand and think it's malicious. Like the Facebook news recently lol
@Cerbrus dang
@Jhawins uhm its Marks fault that my info that i put on the internet gets stored somewhere, that's evil
The result of that edit is a downvote on my answer.
and your scorn.
3:44 PM
@Jhawins I think so too but it still really concerns me. I'm not arguing with you or trying to convince you that Peer5 are saints, we're a company, we want to make money. We just understand that the only reasonable way to do that is to focus on helping end users. Peer5 has more than 2 million concurrent connections at times - if we messed up UX you'd hear about us already :D
@Luggage Aye, there be a lot of that.
Cerb always brings the best beef from Main
and meta
USDA certified and everything lol
@Cerbrus is the guy here?
3:45 PM
So it's really important for us to make sure we don't piss off users or get into the same slot as ads or something undesirable, the end user is better off with Peer5 than without - if that wasn't the case I wouldn't have joined in the first place.
Is / was
I can ping him here
I wish I could see it
I suspect the best way to handle that desire is "If it was about you, you'd know."
3:46 PM
last seen 21h ago
@Jhawins Facebook is literally centralizing the internet in a closed-garden that makes it hard for small businesses to compete with their approach. Peer5 is literally the opposite of that IMO. Not that I think Facebook is bad - I think Facebook itself had a tremendous positive income and IMO it's overall a "net positive". Especially since it was obvious to me from the start that spying on me was the point of Facebook to begin with.
Meh, he'll see it later then
user1596138
Consumers don't give a shit about how hard it is for your small business to compete :P
@BenjaminGruenbaum facebook buying up technology makes it hard to compete as well
Like Rift, and I think snapchat?
user1596138
No Jordan...
3:48 PM
Yes, Snapchat
Instagram too
user1596138
They wanted Snapchat
user1596138
Snap is it's own public company now
Ah, instagram that's what I was thinking
user1596138
Hence Facebook "stories" and Instagram spamming me with new snapchat features all the time
user1596138
Idk what would you do? Wouldn't you do exactly what FB is doing, get a leg up?
user1596138
3:50 PM
Because they got a leg up it gave companies like @BenjaminGruenbaum's a new market
I'll give zucc some credit he really kept his cool during the senate thing
user1596138
To make it easier for companies to compete with them. It all comes back around eventually
@SterlingArcher That's easy when you're a cold-blooded creature
user1596138
I mean he was talking to loons that didn't understand the very most basics of tech so I think he was just bored as fuck
Like if a senator asked me how a website made money I'd lose my shit lol
3:52 PM
@Jhawins not my company, I just code here and believe in the product :D
@SterlingArcher "mostly nudes, tbh"
there was a homeless(?) man wearing only shorts who walked up and started digging through the trash cans while I was waiting for the bus this morning
I considered giving him my shirt, but I didn't
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum I just assumed they employed you
3:52 PM
Zucc deciding to go to the senate
@Jhawins yeah, they do employ me - but the reason I came to work for them is because I think the idea is really cool and the tech is interesting.
@Jhawins They don't even know who he is. He sneaks in and codes at night because he believes in the product.
2
That's why I work here, I believe in the technology we do here
@Luggage Good Ben Hunting
user1596138
@Luggage Is he towc
3:54 PM
@SterlingArcher I work here because I hate plants.
user1596138
I work here because they pay me
s/codes at night/trolls JS chat on StackOverflow lol
user1596138
I've been building a dialer to spam call bsinesses for a few weeks
user1596138
Except it's not spam when it's B2B
Yeah that nonsense bugs me
3:55 PM
@Jhawins is a budding anarchist
Our phone rings like 3 times a day with some Robocaller "WE ARE CALLING IN REGARDS TO YOUR BUSINESS ACCOUNT"
user1596138
I budded long ago
user1596138
@hilli_micha It's not a robocaller at least it's real.
@Jhawins how many buds did you bud, bud?
@hilli_micha that's him
user1596138
3:56 PM
We do a lot of prospecting. So we get you a list of prospects and we have an auto dialer thjat calls your phone and then the prospect's phones
Gimme some tips on how to make them stop, I've just gotten to the point where I shove the phone in my mouth and moan until they go away
user1596138
Get an Alaska area code phone number
@hilli_micha play the mimic game
user1596138
They legally can't call you. We can't.
> Then our self-driving cars drive my your house menacingly.
3:56 PM
@Jhawins :(
user1596138
It's just a small feature of a 400M product. I was just ragging. I do lots of stuff
don't answer
@Jhawins do you have previous business with the people you're calling?
@hilli_micha twilio.com
3:57 PM
@hilli_micha I talk to them, that's fun. I always talk to spammers
user1596138
@rlemon We are a middleman...
so you're calling on behalf of a business?
user1596138
So if you knew you wanted to sell your product to businesses in Toronto that own 6 or more trucks... We could get you those businesses
@hilli_micha Just ask them irrelevant stuff like what's their favorite color, who was the 6th president's favorite dog, why the sky is blue, how to bake soda.
user1596138
Then we would let you call them. We don't do anything
3:58 PM
@rlemon what are you, the FBI?
@hilli_micha set up an auto-answerer, get multiple numbers, set up some call forwarding, etc
@Luggage no, just wondering if that would fly with our anti spam laws
@BenjaminGruenbaum I used to have fun doing that lol
user1596138
Same thing with consumers. We just have a massive amount of data and we use it for anything from sales prospecting to identity verification to credit reports
3:59 PM
@Jhawins is that a bad thing?
@rlemon definitely wouldn't fly with ours. You have to explicitly consent to these phone calls.
I don't know if it's law or not, but spam calling is rampant in the US right now
@BenjaminGruenbaum there are some ways to get around it here, mostly if you have had business with them in the past 6(?) months
or maybe that's just me
then you can call them once a day for up to 5? days a week
user1596138
3:59 PM
@Shmiddty Nah it's not bad we just facilitate solicitation

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