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4:00 PM
bye
 
Well, you can, but I would decide at that point to no longer take you seriously
 
@JanDvorak see ya
 
@m59 Same thing
 
Religious people believe they are right and others are wrong. This debate will never be a conversation because at it's very root we have people debating things they believe to be true - which we cannot prove or disprove (yet).
 
m59
Not the same thing at all.
 
4:00 PM
woah now
The nonreligious believe they are right as well.
hence the arguing by both
 
m59
I've been both. When I was an atheist, I believed in things (morality, human value, love) that didn't exist according to my worldview.
And never realized it.
 
@Loktar That doesn't mean they are more or less correct
 
@Loktar slip of the finger
 
@m59 human value is essentially a form empathy.
 
meant "in a religious debate" people...
 
4:01 PM
who stars religion related phrases?
 
who doesnt?! :P
 
@m59 So, what you're saying is that the only valid definition of morality, human value, love, and justice is an objective one that is delivered from a deity?
 
Im sad I missed the Catholic discussion yesterday :(
 
m59
Yes.
 
@Loktar there is one every day?
 
4:02 PM
@m59 so what you're saying is "im right because im right"
where's the actual argument
 
@Zirak Yes
 
m59
Not at all.
 
@RyanKinal its an argument I commonly see between religious/nonreligious people which I can't fully agree with. I agree individuals have their own view of morality. However the religious believe that an individuals morality has to be flawed if it hasn't come from a higher power.
 
I completely disagree. I can glean morality and justice from simple observation.
 
@iliacholy both sides are.
 
m59
4:03 PM
Then you adhere to Sam Harris' way of thought.
 
@Loktar Yeah, I understand that much. I'm fairly well-versed in this kind of discussion.
 
m59
I've got a video for you.
 
so meh. idk. I believe people can have a sense of morality without religion.
 
Athiests will commonly argue that religion is an invention of the human being to satisfy the longing to understand the universe, but even if that were true, God could still exist despite that
 
@RyanKinal er yeah I assumed so.
 
4:04 PM
@m59 "Non-Existence of Free Will"?
 
Likewise, thiests will say "How could you not accept the existence of God?" is equally wrong, since we have no point of reference
 
room topic changed to JavaScript: A little box to type your opinions in [ecmascript-5] [javascript] [yes-cl]
 
@Neil I agree. I don't discount that god could exist, I just think it's unlikely.
 
I personally don't push my religious views on others, and hate when the non religious do to me :P
Im never like god FUCK ATHIESTS world would be so much better without them!
 
m59
If you're a product of your genetics and environment, you certainly have no choices.
 
4:05 PM
But I commonly see the same said about the religious :?
and that always irritates me.
 
@RyanKinal And that's what makes you an intelligent athiest/agnostic
 
Although I know religious people do say what I said above lol
 
@m59 If you're a part of "God's Plan" then you certainly have no choices ;-)
Of course, neither of these statements mean that your actions are meaningless
 
m59
That's arguing a religious thought from an atheistic worldview.
 
Like Im just chillin here. Talking about how I hate attention whores. Then BAM
37 mins ago, by rlemon
I hate on organized religion (not your individual rights and freedoms to be religious or spiritual or not as it may be).
and im like wtf bro?!
 
4:06 PM
@m59 Nobody likes to think their future is planned out.. that doesn't mean that it isn't
 
@Loktar Understandable. I have issues with organized religion. I have issues with people taking the bible literally. But I'm not going to berate anyone because of it.
 
I had a very interesting conversation with my father the other day... He's very religious and I was surprised to learn that he believed in evolution
 
@RyanKinal yeah same here, I just hate the whole peace to all, tolerance.. ect. And then statements like that are thrown out :P
 
m59
My future is planned out AND I have choices. The difference is that God controls everything and placed me where I am based on MY CHOICES.
 
I was happily surprised, lets say
 
m59
4:08 PM
You ^ there basically argued that God is powerless in several untrue ways and then said that He doesn't exist. I'd agree.
 
I... did?
I don't remember arguing that.
 
The whole creationism argument has always irritated me. Its such a huge point of contention..
 
m59
You communicated that, yes.
 
@m59 It's a matter of perspective.. if he knows everything that you will do, some would say you have no choices
But to each his own
 
@RyanKinal I didnt mean you.
 
4:10 PM
@Loktar Sorry, should've replied. I was speaking to @m59
 
I hate having no context in chat.
ah lol ok
 
MOAR REPLIES
 
m59
@RyanKinal If you're a part of "God's Plan" then you certainly have no choices ;-)
that is true is God if powerless you account for your choices before you make them
 
@Loktar I don't mind creationism, but don't argue creationism like it were a scientific theory
That's what aggravates me personally
 
@Neil yeah I just think its funny how its such a HUGE deal.
 
4:11 PM
@m59 I don't understand that sentence
 
m59
considering you're arguing that atheism is the better stance, how totally unfair to consider a god that I don't even believe in.
 
Yet how the pyramids were built don't draw such huge critisisms
 
m59
I corrected it, sorry
 
@m59 I'm not saying atheism is a better choice (objectively), I'm saying atheism is a better choice for me.
 
m59
well, I tried to correct it lol
 
4:11 PM
@Loktar Must have been made by God.. *whistles*
 
lol or ALIENS!
 
lol
 
m59
Surely you can accept my view that says atheism is not the better choice for you?
 
@Loktar On what day of creation were aliens made? Would be interesting to know
 
@m59 I'm certain that you believe that atheism is not a good choice for me.
 
4:12 PM
@Neil hah
 
m59
And if you're fine with that, then why argue?
 
I fully believe aliens exist actually yet am still religious :P
 
Anybody can help me?
0
Q: Controling the clicks in an iframe via Jquery

Mikel Garces EtxebarriaI have this code: $("#iframeID").load(function () { var iframeDoc = $('#iframeID').contents().get(0); $(iframeDoc).bind('click', function() { alert('clicked'); }); }); and its detecting the click in the iframe, but how can I detect if the click is in for example in a link ...

 
well "religious" I don't practice it.
because I don't like organized religion.
 
@m59 Because that wasn't the point of contention. This all started with your statement that an atheist worldview can have no value for human life.
 
4:13 PM
0
Q: Making one object the property of another whilst avoiding scope issues

TulesAfter being inspired by some MVC style design patterns, I have been trying to separate data from views in my code and move toward a more sensibly organized object based approach. (please, don't bother telling me that my code doesn't follow strict MVC pattern correctly, that is not my concern at t...

 
@Loktar I believe in aliens, and believe it or not, I consider myself christian
Lets just say, I like to remind myself that God gave us brains to use
 
m59
It can't, logically. All atheists (that I know of) believe in those things.
It's just not logical.
Watch the youtube video I linked if you really care.
 
@m59 what?
 
Only if you think that objective value is the only value
 
m59
It's the only value that counts.
Hitler thought the Jews didn't have any value.
 
4:15 PM
... the Hitler argument is a bad one.
 
m59
You don't get to say otherwise on atheism.
It's relevant.
 
:? I know a lot of athiests.. like all of my friends
 
No. It's not.
 
and they do all value human life
 
@RyanKinal *giggle*
 
m59
4:15 PM
If you really want to do this, go for it.
 
and are pretty compassionate people.
 
m59
So, everyone having their own beliefs is fine unless it's Hitler? On what grounds can you discard him?
 
Im not saying I believe Atheism is correct (for me) however I can't agree that Atheist's hold no value in human life.
 
@m59 There are bad people and there are good people, regardless of religion and world view. That's where the argument ends.
 
m59
According to who?
Hitler and his followers thought they were great!
 
4:16 PM
Exactly. Consider the popes of the middle ages.
they were responsible for countless deaths
in the name of God.
 
m59
^ and they never knew God at all.
 
@m59 And so, you don't like this idea that if there is no God, then everyone is right whomever thinks they are right?
 
@m59 exactly
 
@m59 True. That doesn't mean they were, or that the cause of their lack of human value is their atheism.
 
but they thought they did. And people thought they were correct.
 
4:17 PM
Anyone else having networking issues on main?
 
Correlation does not imply causation.
 
m59
I didn't claim atheism = people don't value human life
 
ah I'm mistaken then.
 
I don't like moral relativism either, but you don't have to be religious to think there is some higher moral code
 
m59
That is the rational conclusion of atheism, but no one comes to it (that I know of)
@Neil, yes you do.
watch the video
I'm going to go because this is getting nowhere.
 
m59
see ya
 
@m59 I can't, I'm at work
 
I liked it so I can watch it later when Im at home
see ya @m59
 
I'll try to take a look at it when I get home
 
@m59 You expected something different from a discussion of religion online?
 
4:19 PM
@m59 The video is on my "watch later" list. I, also, am at work.
 
lol thats the thing I hate the most how people get seriously angry when it comes to discussions about religion :?
 
@SomeKittens: not just online
 
I like to be a dick, but I never really get angry. The discussions are fun imo.
Love hearing how other people view the world.
 
@Loktar Agreed
 
actually there is no point in discussion religion, because you come to the point of "no valid argument" so quickly.
 
4:20 PM
Nah, nobody here really got upset
 
@Neil 2 people left :?
 
If I try to have a discussion with reason and logic with some hardcore religion folks.. lol, its just a dream
 
Every two weeks, I sit in my living room with a Deist and a Catholic, and discuss philosophy. It's a lot of fun (and we poke at each other's beliefs, but respect them)
 
@jAndy yeah
@RyanKinal thats pretty awesome
 
@Loktar Neither of us got really upset then, ;)
 
4:20 PM
you can't argue if you always get a "I just believe so", "god says so" bullshit
 
I've found its hard to find religious people who can do that.
 
We spent 6 months of meetings on justice -_-
 
Not trying to call out religious people or anything. But in many cases they tend to be more hard stanced.
 
Yep
 
@Loktar Really? In my experience it's fairly easy
 
4:21 PM
@Loktar their religion obligates them to be
 
@Neil man I've tried..
But usually I am just told Im not really a Christian
Or that Im a left wing nut :P
 
lol. That sucks.
 
maybe I just haven't found the right people to have discussions with
Its easy to with my friends who are all Atheists
 
Of course, I come from the bible belt, so that might have something to do with it
 
they respect my viewpoints.
 
4:22 PM
People are nuts there
 
@Neil hah I've heard
 
@iliacholy That's less of a religion thing and more of a humanity thing.
 
^
Im a Christian, not afraid to admit it. But I won't be a dick, or devalue someone for a different belief.
I may not agree with it, but I can still treat them with respect.
 
\o/
Hooray!
 
Hard pills to swallow:
No such thing as free will
There is no great protector
There is only oblivion after death
Nobody wants to take that medicine, so they turn religious
 
4:24 PM
well I can be a dick, but thats during online discussions :P
 
I accept that
But I think everyone ought to consider the possibility, not pretend there isn't one
 
@Neil if anything its fun to think about
Especially for scifi geeks
when you put a scifi twist on things its pretty interesting imo.
@simonsarris posted an awesome Adam and Eve photo on facebook a while back
let me see if I can find it
 
@Loktar Depends on how deeply you think about it.. If you really believed there was oblivion waiting for you after death.. really believed it..
 
Baugh. I hate the internet on campus
 
user image
3
 
4:26 PM
Not saying everyone, but many people would perhaps act differently than they do now
 
^ so badass
 
@Loktar That's star-worthy
 
@Neil See, that's the thing. People find the idea of "oblivion after death" disturbing, but it's not like you'll experience oblivion.
 
aw yiss
 
@SomeKittens lol
 
oh dear are we talking about religion
 
@RyanKinal No, in fact it's not the oblivion part i'm worried about
 
@SimonSarris it died out
you just missed it :P
 
It's about the absence of an afterlife
 
4:28 PM
(mostly)
 
@rlemon btw if you see earlier messages I was just poking at you you know I <3 you still bro!
 
The idea that you will cease to exist when your last heart beat pumps the last bit of oxygen to your brain
 
m59
sigh...I'm glad I came back :)
 
@Neil Your energy and your mass continues, though. You will be buried in the ground, decay, and feed the plants and animals around you.
 
yep.. the other strong part of religion (beside fear and hope) is just to claim.. yaaayy when you're dead, there is paradiiisse island... or.. 9 virgins awaiting you
 
4:30 PM
I find that exceedingly beautiful.
 
m59
@Loktar please don't think that I ever said a word because I want people to believe what I believe or to prove that I am right.
 
sorry for my sarcasm.. but seriously
 
@m59 nah
You were just joining the conversation :P
 
@RyanKinal I can get that without having to renounce to an afterlife, sir :P
 
m59
I lived without Jesus and now I live with Jesus. It is impossible to know Jesus and not be overwhelmed with sympathy for everyone that doesn't.
 
4:31 PM
@Neil But it doesn't require an afterlife. And, in a metaphorical sense, it is an afterlife.
I'm fine with god as a metaphor. I'm fine with an afterlife as a metaphor.
 
@RyanKinal No, it doesn't require an afterlife. That happens regardless of an afterlife. I just want my cake and eat it too
 
lol, fair enough
 
Not really a cake.. being able to provide food to plants.. but still
 
Anyway... I should probably do something productive. You all need to stop being interesting.
 
m59
I could use help :)
 
4:34 PM
I have a day job and startup to deal with. Sorry.
 
m59
I might have to start hanging out on SO for the religious debate since I'm screwed as far as javascript is concerned.
 
@RyanKinal Hah, sorry
 
@m59 lol
 
@Neil Oh, no worries. I'll be checking in here regardless.
 
m59
I'm at work, too...not a ton to do today.
 
4:35 PM
I'll be around
 
I'm currently on a project on which I can take my time. I have until the end of the week, and I'm nearly done.
If I wanted to make a really good impression, I'd rush it through by the end of the day.
But... everybody here loves me already :-P
 
@RyanKinal Always a good idea to overshoot :P
Aside from letting you slack off, if there actually were unexpected problems, you still get it done
 
Oh, it'll be done by mid-day tomorrow.
 
@copy ...how? Pointers?
 
guys
do you still remember the code i posted previously and said i found a bug?
 
4:43 PM
Nope
 
Hi yall
 
Hey @Neal
 
hello all neels
 
Thanks for making me type 3 letters when I want to ping you and Neil
 
Ive been busy
 
4:44 PM
do you reckon it's a firefox bug if only firefox crashes while running this code whereas Chrome and Opera won't crash but just won't load this code?
 
(Although, it's better than jAndy and JanDvorak)
 
wins the name game
 
@Neal Not busy enough. You need to be promoting Blogascript :-P
 
sorry @RyanKinal :-(
 
lol, no worries
I don't actually care
 
4:46 PM
@RyanKinal: wow never realized that
really sucks
@JanDvorak: change your name ! :P
 
@TemporaryNickName That code doesn't cause firefox to crash, at least not my version
 
lol
 
Just makes the page freeze
 
what version are u using?
 
@Zirak LiveCD and gparted
Or parted
 
4:48 PM
7.0.1 (I use chrome)
 
Damn ... Steam for Linux wasn't a good idea. Now I have to find yet another OS to be productive again.
 
Hello Guys.. I have updated the same.. and also upgraded my self :)
have a look n lemme know if any suggestions
:)
 
Sooo many social sharing buttons ...
 
^ been suggested
stack over-share
 
@OctavianDamiean No? Bad things on Steam for Linux?
Or is it that you're no longer productive under Linux?
 
4:56 PM
also @Loktar nope - I hate you and your Americhrist ways.
</jokes>
 
haha
Americhrist lol
that made me lol for real
 
seriously.. I'm surprised the name hasn't been changed yet (at least in the south)
 
@rlemon except social sharing .. are you comfortable with other info now?
 
@AnoopSharma haven't read the other info
 
> MuriChrist! Speak the language, love the Jesus or git out!
 
4:57 PM
I'm at work - I can get away with reading non-work code.
 
@copy No suggestion of manual labour?
 
oh.. I have updated pdf @rlemon
can have a look
 
Manual labour ?
 
@Loktar git add americhrist.md && git commit -am 'murica. love it or we shoot you' && git push origin world
all I read when I saw git
 
@Loktar Oddly, there have been times where I've meant to type "get" and I had a hard time not typing "git"
 
4:57 PM
lol
 
Doesn't that look better?
 
Like... just now. I honestly had to force my fingers to type "get"
 
@OctavianDamiean the social on the article page itself I don't see an issue with
 
@Zirak If you want the hard way - parted. If you want the easy way - gparted. Doing it from a live system is not an option as far as I know
 
smileys in the comments section is so phpbb 2002ish
 
4:59 PM
@RyanKinal Yea that's the problem. Now that I have Counter Strike even on Linux ...
 
lol
 
@rlemon I hate those buttons ...
I could kill 'em.
 
I hate them as well. - I can accept them on that page for a single article
main page === 80+ buttons === 40+ iframes and 80+ external images
 

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