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22:00
later people...beer:30...
That question was a) off topic b) the user got enough downvotes to know something was wrong with it and c) instead of monkey patching stuff @Shog9 people should get a nice notification of the reason
I restrained myself from too rapid deletion today. usually I would delv immediately after closing but with the diamond im am trying to give them a chance to see what happened. But like I have said numerous times before: SO should either implement something so the OPs can see their deleted questions OR take deletion from us.
I'm not saying all questions should be deleted, but some just deserve nothing else imho
@Gordon We should do that, yes - but even if we do, they can't ask questions in comments, or really even have much hope of getting the thing re-opened if they edit; if no one took the time to explain the problem in comments before deletion (which can be a huge waste of time in many cases), they're up a creek without a paddle.
@user1129107 yes, there are a thousand ways how to process data ;)
22:03
@PeeHaa except the trend has moved from "delete stuff that has no hope" toward "delete stuff".
2
@webarto cool - if you ever try it, please give me feedback :)
@Shog9 Seems like both answers on your question say pretty much the same thing
@Shog9 do we have stats about questions getting reopened after editing when already closed? I'd suspect the numbers to be close to nil
(Note that I haven't seen that first answer while posting mine, I didn't load it)
@MadaraUchiha technical solutions, yeah. Which is all well and good, but I'm easily as concerned about whatever thought process is leading to this in the first place.
22:05
@Shog9 I can only speak for myself, but I try not to do that. And still that doesn't solve the monkey patching I was talking about.
@Ocramius could I disturb you one more time?
@Shog9 Yeah, I can relate to that.
@Eugene shoot
Also "just" going through closed questions to check delete worthy ones later is no fun when there are 100 exact duplicates coming in everyday on a single topic
However, can we move it out of this room? We're sliding onto the arcane here @Shog9 @PeeHaa @Gordon

 cv-pls test room

A room for testing the cv-pls browser extensions
Let's not disturb the PHP going on here :P
22:07
No let's not wake them up
@Ocramius, I have successfully generated mapings and entities, but I have few tables, that have primary key, that isn't autogenerated. It's a PK sure, but it is autogenerated for other table. So there fore some table mappings are without identifier, since main point for them is crossreference for easier and shorter select statements. Not duplicate same data. Due to that I get error when I try to generate Repository classes.
Where could I read about such situation, because I don't know how to edit mapping correctly, so that parsing will work correctly as well.
First of all, you don't need to generate repository classes. The default repository works fine as long as you don't want custom voodoo
so these are tables without identifier?
Anyone understand why this isn't returning anything?

<?php
$reader = new XMLReader();
$reader->open('file.xml');

while($reader->read())
{
if($reader->nodeType == XMLREADER::ELEMENT && $reader->localName == 'headend')
{
$reader->read();
$headend = (string)$reader->getAttribute('headendId');
echo $headend;
}
}

(xml is as followed)
<lineup>
<headend headendId="something">
<name>some name</name>
<ids>ids</ids>
<codes>codes</codes>
</headend>
</lineup>
@Ocramius to what was this question addressed?
@Shog9 Stupid question, but why don't you just allow people to see their deleted questions?
22:15
That ^
I see many issues it solves, not many it introduces.
@Eugene to you. Are those tables without id?
that is, without PK?
You should try to fix the system and not try to get people to work around it by arbitrary waiting periods before deletion
382
Q: Show all of my question/answers to me even if they are deleted

vavaI would really like to see all of my questions and answers on the profile page, even if some of them were deleted, and I don't have enough rep to see them on the site. (Note that some questions are automatically deleted after 30 days or 1 year, and the author might be oblivious about what happen...

The original ^
And the answer
-111
A: Show all of my question/answers to me even if they are deleted

Jeff AtwoodGenerally when things get deleted, it's for a good reason, and we don't want users to be undeleting them -- there's a reason we require 10k rep to "see" deleted items at all, and only moderators can see deletions in a user's profile.

@NikiC ^ reason ? :)
22:17
@PeeHaa It's a Jeff Atwood answer
I don't think there is more to say than that, right?
right
-111
Democracy at its finest.
@NikiC Still doesn't fix anything unless there's something there to see.
@Shog9 "We get fairly regular complaints - via support emails, here on MSO, even on Twitter - about questions that've just disappeared with the asker left none the wiser." That it fixes
22:19
It also allows them to edit/flag it to get a second chance...
With a nice note of "Your question has been deleted probably because it had very low quality bla bla bla FAQ bla bla bla improve bla bla bla flag for undetion"
@Ocramius okay I will go along and say yes. The question is a bit odd thou. When you ask "Are those", I would think, that you are talking about some specific tables and I didn't name any, just told that are few, that aren't independent. i.e. cart and cart_items. cart table has id - PK and cart_item per each item has reference to id in table cart.
It fixes everything on this topic, besides the fact that some questions may get deletd too fast
@NikiC I am in favor of showing folks deleted questions if they get (say) a comment notification prior to deletion (that is, when they have a link to them), but unless the delete voters are diligent about commenting that's probably not going to happen.
@Shog9 Why do there have to be comments?
That's what the close reason is provided for
22:20
@Shog9 The close reason is already there to explain why a question is not a good fit for the site
@NikiC I also hate the idea of generating more mod flags for this reason. If anything, there should be a "undelete review" system
@Eugene so if you DESCRIBE those tables, you don't have a PRIMARY KEY in it? That's not supported by the ORM
@Shog9 Hm, perhaps as a first step existing re-open votes should delay the deletion. — Yannis 11 mins ago
you need a PK, even if just faked in your mappings
I like that ^
22:21
@Shog9 okay, drop teh "flag for undeletion" part of it ;)
@NikiC So you think we should just rub deleted questions in people's faces when there's nothing new or interesting about them? That's probably not going to reduce complaints.
@Ocramius no, in real table in DB both tables have PK, but mapping for cart_items table doesn't have it. This field is referenced this way.
oneToOne:
    carts:
        ...
        joinColumns:
            carts_id:
                referencedColumnName: carts_id
If someone doesn't bother checking up on their question for two days and they miss the close reason... Oh well. Obviously they didn't care that much. Two hours is considerably easier to forgive.
Okay I think we have solved it! Notify user on deletion delay deletion on reopen vote. There. Go implement it :D
@Shog9 rub them in their faces, huh? I only want them to see them, so they can see the close reason and see the comments that might be explaining why it is a bad question
22:23
@NikiC And how are they gonna know to look at them then?
@Shog9 inbox notification
@PeeHaa ...face
The reason can also be added there
@Shog9 They'll look at them if the look for them. If they don't look for them they don't care anyway
@Ocramius therefore when I try to generate Repositories there is no field, that specifically tells, that this is PK.
22:24
I mean, isn't it the same with close votes?
Why don't you ask teh "And how are they gonna know to look at them then?" question about close-votes?
@NikiC Not really - closed questions still show up in your profile.
Folks can still comment on closed questions, and get notifications for them
@Shog9 And what I am suggesting is that deleted questions should be visible too...
Closed questions can be edited, voted on
All kinds of stuff can generate notifications for closed questions
Nothing generates notifications for deleted questions
They disappear
So fix the system
Don't monkey patch
And with that I'm going to walk the dog
If you're suggesting that deleted questions shouldn't actually act deleted, then that's a whole 'nother thing
22:25
I can actually agree with that.
@Shog9 That is all nice and everything, but only tangentially related
I mean, all that is also true right now
@Shog9 For starters, it doesn't make sense that I can see my deleted answers, but not my deleted questions.
Being able to see the questions at least allows them to understand if they look for them
Especially because deleted questions are far more "dangerous" for a new user.
Even if they were deleted quickly
22:26
@Eugene a @OneToOne may also be an ID
@MadaraUchiha You only see them if you happen to visit the question they're on. You don't get notifications for them, see them in your profile, etc.
@Shog9 True, but you can still see them if you care (i.e. you visit the question you've answered).
Yes just in time to fix a typo [insert-winner-kid-meme-here]
@NikiC Sure. So what I'm saying is that just letting folks see their deleted questions doesn't fix the problem I'm talking about. You actually need to do more than that.
Btw, is it true that people can currently not see their deleted question, but can undelete them if they manually enter the link?
22:27
Deleted questions, no matter how hard you try (unless you browser bookmark every question you ask), is unreachable, completely.
@Shog9 It's a start, mainly :) Just a start
@Ocramius so in joinColumns sections I just need to add a description for column, that would say, that it is id: true etc. ?
@NikiC They can vote to undelete, that doesn't mean it'll get undeleted.
@MadaraUchiha Unless you bookmark that question (or remember enough about it to search for it) you're still not finding that answer.
@MadaraUchiha chrome://history ;-)
22:28
@MadaraUchiha Very funny :D
@Eugene yes, though I don't remember how it is called in YAML
Also, posts deleted by mods cannot be voted to undelete by non-mod users.
@NikiC I wasn't kidding.
So basically Jeff argues that they don't show the question so people can't undelete. But actually they can vote to undelete ^^
@Ocramius id: true if you are talking about PK
yep
just be sure to validate your mappings very often
22:29
got it.
will try now.
^-- I think that comment says it nicely. "fix the elephant in the room first" ;)
I totally fail to see why this is being brought up again when part of the solution is already asked and given (and declined) often on meta
@PeeHaa ?
@Shog9 I honestly think the pro:con ratio is high for this one. I don't see why everyone on the team seem to insist that it's a bad idea.
@NikiC Not directed at you, but at SO or in this case @Shog9 in specific because well... he's the messenger. The solution for the problem is already on meta
:-)
22:33
@Ocramius nope, didn't help.
@Eugene exceptions please
[Doctrine\ORM\Mapping\MappingException]
  No identifier/primary key specified for Entity "Application\Entity\ElCartsItems". Every Entity must have an identifier/primary key.
@Eugene are you sure the ID is correct set that way in YAML?
I will make a gist.
bleh, the example is missing from the docs
22:40
official g+ vanity urls are available to private people? yes or no? anyone know?
@Eugene github.com/doctrine/doctrine2/blob/master/lib/Doctrine/ORM/… - looks like the "id" is an own property in the mapping
@Eugene no, I don't think that's it, but I'm quite confused by this yaml thing :P
@PeeHaa Don't solve anything unless you honestly believe that the only reason folks get upset about deletion is their inability to view their own questions. I've seen too many 10k+ users upset over it to buy that for a second.
try with the explicit id property (not mapped as field)
22:48
became a tool that breaks the feedback loop between askers and the community
^ that will be fixed
@Shog9
hello world
Hello Bond. Jason Bond
@MadaraUchiha good evening
@Ocramius you mean, I should try to add Pk field to fields list and describe it there?
22:57
ou. I see. As a separate Id section on same level as fields
@Shog9 "10k+ users upset over it" I think these users would be just as upset regardless of whether the question was deleted within two hours or within two weeks. It's just not nice if your question was deleted.
You seem to be arguing against the general feature of being able to delete something and not about the specific problem of fast deletes. For those I honestly think that just being able to view the question will do a lot. I mean, if you asked the question recently you're pretty likely to look for it and see the deletion and the reasoning behind it (re your point about "notifications" etc)
@NikiC Meh. When I look at my history I'll be glad if at least half of them would be burninated :P
@PeeHaa That's why I said "these users" :P
:-D
@PeeHaa but yeah, 191 questions are obviously 100 too many :P
@PeeHaa stackoverflow.com/questions/4288022/… => Looks very "not constructive" :P
23:06
@NikiC It's not just the amount, but also (and maybe especially) the content of them
@NikiC yes. But I cannot delete them. I tried to flag a couple of them, which didn't gave me the expected result :(
@NikiC There's an answer you could post - in particular, go into detail about how an affected user might find his deleted question and what he might do (constructively) in response to it.
@Gordon why? we'll just undelete them, won't we?
@Gordon Well surely the answers should also be taken into account
@NikiC we??? He's a mod now remember ;)
23:09
@Gordon If only you had some sort of special privilege on the site that let you reopen incorrectly closed questions...
@PeeHaa oh rite. but he need legimitation ;) so it doesn't look like he's undeleting stuff for his precious repz :P
Have anyone experienced your website getting weirdly cached and now everyone who visits your site are experiencing the cached version.
sadly my situation it is also the mobile version everyone is seeing
@NikiC I wrote a parser for edn based on phlexy, mind to take a look?
@Shog9 wouldnt that be abuse?
23:10
Why have this happen ? I have done nothing today
@Karem Well... do you have some caching mechanism running on the server?
@Gordon Probably; I didn't see that you had answered them. That said, don't hesitate to ingratiate yourself with other mods who might have less of a conflict of interest...
@igorw cool
@PeeHaa No... And the "fun" thing is it is only happening when you enter the site without www.
@Karem My guess is that you are looking at another site
23:12
if you enter with www. it comes the correct site and when you after that try to access without www. it is updated
@Shog9 @Gordon Do you think the singleton question should be reopened? I totally agree that it should not be deleted, but I'm not sure it should be open
When i clear cookies and cache i can experience the problem again
Or if i access another computer and browse
Do you have a link?
@NikiC Do you know why it's closed?
I even tried to do modifications but i cant change the page that are cached
@PeeHaa shoutkey.com/criticism you will meet a mobile version right ?
23:16
@Shog9 but but but that would require meta participation óÒ
@NikiC you say that like it'd require putting dollar signs in front of your favorite nouns.
@NikiC no. it should probably not be reopened. We could try to make it fit the answers better, but that will be tough given that half of the answers are actually about the code while the other half only answers the title.
@Karem How do I tell whether I'm looking at the cached version?
@PeeHaa easy. does it look stale?
@PeeHaa It should be a mobile version where it says "Slutter om 6 dage og
Udløbet" top left blue box
23:17
Good evening ladies and gentlemen. Tonight on radio StackOverflow, in change to the scheduled programming, we have the next part of our series entitled "Y U NO RTFM?". This evenings episode is on the subject of stackoverflow.com/questions/15398089/…
@PeeHaa after you checked that out open a new tab and enter the same url with www then the web desktop version should show correct
@PeeHaa somehow the mobile version from earlier today have been cached on the url without www ? I dont get it 1) where 2) why
@Karem hhmm i see
@DaveRandom all his questions should be closed
@DaveRandom clapclap
23:20
I just discovered that I've been using nginx for three months without knowing :-P
@0ɟɟouoɟıɹʇuınbɐɥs You didn't notice your pages were being served faster than you could request them???
@Gordon Loving the irony of the username
@Peehaa i just tried ping it too just in case, but looks ok - same server ips
"Have you tried asking yourself?"
@Karem I have no clue as to why that is happening
:(
23:22
Damn could it be some DNS thing
@PeeHaa Well, no... the connection to the US seems to be slower than the server serves pages...
@Ocramius id section seems to work.
@igorw looks nice
I can shut the whole website down but the mobile site will still show wtf
@Eugene good :)
23:24
@Karem Most likely nothing to do with dns: whatsmydns.net/#A/tilbudibyen.dk
@Karem And you are 100% there is no proxy or whatever in front of it?
DNS cache ?
Yes 100%
DNS cache shouldn't serve content
@PeeHaa It's conceivable if the NS is doing something stupid with the www. CNAME, although it is seriously unlikely
The IP that is showing is the correct dedicated server ip we got
I'm sorry. I have no idea what it could be. I would say. Wait till tomorrow :P
Or maybe @DaveRandom knows something. He's good with this weird shit
:D
23:26
I cant touch the cached mobile site that is showing, If I change the mobile site it just changes to real one which is at ?m and not this one..
@Ocramius I wonder complex PK will just be an id section with more than one column in description?
Hmm yeah okay, but its just hard with 80K visitors a day and this happening
Many sales go lost if it remains like this a whole day..
@DaveRandom what do you say? Any suggestions ?
I say I'm struggling to repeat the problem actually
23:28
hi
Doesn't matter what I do, I always get the same page
Oh no! criticism is not an active ShoutKey!
Lets go saucy instead, shoutkey.com/saucy @DaveRandom
lol
I like that url shortener
Clear your cookies and you can experience the cached mobile site again
If you entered the www. version it works when you try the one without again
I just quick tried to die the whole site for a second and it still remains lol
23:31
@Karem Yeh stuff is happening now, 1 sec
@Karem How are you detecting mobile users?
@PeeHaa http user agent and some other stuff, but it cant be it I tried removing it all and just let it show web version but since its not the cause it still shows the mobile site
"the 266th pope to be elected [...] will be the final pope" :)
Like i said before i cant even modify the cached mobile site that are showing
23:33
@Ocramius odd. Now I have mapping and EntityClasses, but when I try to generate repositories I don't get Exception anymore, but I get
No Repository classes were found to be processed.
@NikiC there's still pope
If you add ?m then you will see i have added a " - " at the title to check if its showing the correct mobile version... and the cached one does not have the " - " in the title bar
@Eugene the fact is that you didn't define any custom repository class in the mappings
@Eugene again: why do you want to generate repositories?
Should i contact my webhost? thats like my last option -.-
23:34
@Ocramius It's "[a]ccording to the Prophecy of the Popes"
Dont know what they can do but yeah, they must do something
whatever that may be ^^
anyway, good night
night @NikiC
@Karem sorry for the delayed response, I cleared all my cookies by accident and signed myself out of SO :S
this project I'm working on could actually benefit from morrisonlevi/Ardent
23:39
I've only just managed to actually repeat the problem, looking at it properly now
@DaveRandom Oh okay thought you gave up lol
Unsafe JavaScript attempt to access frame with URL about:blank from frame with...
^^ 279 and counting
Chrome is great but it does do some f*cking stupid things
Huh where do you get that
about:blank lol ?
@Karem On your site. It's not actually your fault, it's a bug in Chrome which I've seen before, I forget what causes it
OK, so the only thing I'm seeing thats semantically different about the requests in the Google cookies
23:46
Oh okay
(as in GA)
analytics
?
I played with Google Analytics earlier today
Can it has something to do with that ?!
which is weird, but it's not a DNS problem, it's definitely something to do with the way your server is handling the request
How do you normally differentiate between a mobile client and a regular browser?
In other words, how do you decide which version to serve?
mostly http_user_agent and some other server params like HTTP_ACCEPT and ALL_HTTP
But again, I tried to inactivate the part of code where it detects if mobile or not, this does not affect the cache thing
OK, well I have no idea what ALL_HTTP is...
23:50
But can all this have something to do that I played with google analytics and Experiments earlier today? Can Google really have that impact and cache and show it ?
@DaveRandom it's for OperaMini browsers
@Karem I'm not certain it is a caching issue, before I go to www and "fix" it I still get the mobile version even if a ctl+F5
@DaveRandom I know that is my problem that it is there already from start
@DaveRandom Have you tried shft+f5?
@Karem I can't quite fathom how, but just looking at the two key facts a) the problem started today and b) you were playing with it today it does seem as if that's the answer
Which is a huge issue for me when customers starts ticking in in 6 hours
23:52
@PeeHaa No but I tried alt+F4
:-P
Hmm right
@PeeHaa That guy is a proper bellend.
@DaveRandom Seriously though chrome does shift+f5 instead of ctrel
Errr... wat
1 sec
But still does not make sense -_- I can inactive all analytic stuff I got on the page and still receive the mobile version
Let me do it moment
wtf Google
...
:D
That shows just how much I write front-end stuff
ok i have just turned the whole site down
check out
23:54
although I do develop in a zero-cache env, so...
not let me clear my cookies and see
Haha crazy
@Karem will do in 2 mins, gotta sort The Boy out
Showing the mobile site still
TilbudiByen.dk - Update
How the f...
Yeah @PeeHaa but clear your cookies
@PeeHaa for my site
Then you'll see lol
Remember without www.
23:58
Strange. Can't you just redirect people to the www domain as a quick fix?

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