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13:00
@rdlowrey Actually with Alert there are only two things that need to be supported at the moment: <0.6.0 and >=0.6.0 (millisecond timer change)
Everything else should work fine between versions I think
Oh and I don't support 0.1.0 because I have no idea what you did there, the commit histories are completely different and there's only so far I'm willing to go
@rdlowrey How would you feel about me docblocking Artax fully (or at least enough that PHP Storm doesn't bitch about it any more)?
user895378
@DaveRandom I usually hate those but if it makes your life easier then feel free :)
You don't use PHP Storm then?
user895378
I don't ...
user895378
I'm anti-IDE in general because: stick in the mud.
I used to hate them, then I started using PHP Storm, now I use them all the time because if you do then it basically tells you what you did wrong
13:04
@rdlowrey what's your text editor then?
user895378
I dunno ... maybe I should just bite the bullet.
sublime? vim?
user895378
@FlorianMargaine notepad++ and vim
I had exactly that attitude a few months ago because I'd only ever used shit IDEs
Don't get me wrong, I still use EPP for the quick and dirty stuff
user895378
Well, I hate when things start putting garbage in my dev directories like .idea and what not.
user895378
13:04
IDEs are like viruses and they leave comment vomit all over my code.
@rdlowrey actually PHPStorm is so wise to let you choose if you want to add .idea to your git repo or not…
...and yet you don't mind .git?
user895378
I don't because I consider .git necessary to my workflow. Again, I know these are unpopular archaic opinions ... Maybe I should just deal with it :/
"Actually you can do it for a long time - but only manually. Just create a new project anywhere where you want to store your project data, then go to Settings|Directories and detach its dir and attach your project root folder.
Just remember to open this folder instead of actual one next time."
tbh though, just add it to .gitignore and don't worry about it.
@rdlowrey we have global .gitignore files for that
13:09
@rdlowrey The error being thrown server-side is that $_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_DIGEST'] doesn't exist...
vim and others still have .editorrc
I just want to point out that it's entirely possible that it's our shitty code that's causing the problem, I'll try and see if it works locally
user895378
@Ocramius I still don't want it in my project directory :)
@rdlowrey I do understand where you are coming from there. I still don't actually commit .idea, although I have been considering it, because it could be a good way to help enforce coding standards, but I'm still of the opinion that the extra crap is not necessary
user895378
IMO something like .idea should never go into your repo.
13:10
@rdlowrey it doesn't land in the repo, it's just in the local dir
user895378
@Jimbo have you turned on request debugging so you can see the raw request that's being sent as it goes out?
exactly like composer.lock, build, clover.xml, etc
it's just an artifact like any other
@Ocramius He hates composer as well :-P
user895378
@Ocramius Yeah I know -- I just hate seeing any of those artifacts. It drives my OCD crazy :)
heh, as I said, global gitignore
13:12
Why would you have a copy of composer.phar in the repo?
@DaveRandom depends on the project. In some cases, I have to use a specific composer.phar version to test some bugs
happens a lot with larger libs, heh
@rdlowrey use simple ls instead of ls -a?
(really the composer.phar version, not talking about locks and such)
@Ocramius lol @ meta bugs
user895378
@bwoebi again it's an irrational OCD thing. It's not that it can't be worked around :)
13:15
@rdlowrey If it'd be a real OCD thing for you, you wouldn't be able to work around^^
user895378
lol that's the whole point. I have yet to bring myself to work around it
@DaveRandom Because you want to have every developer using the same version of composer, and as they don't version there releases, having it in the repo is one way of achieving that.
No real need tbh
there/their
13:19
everyone should just use the latest composer.phar
the problem here was really some weird bugs in composer that pop up rarely with very complex dependency graphs
The behaviour of Composer does change.....always automatically upgrading to the latest version is not so fantastic. And you still need a way of distributing it, as doing composer self-update still has those security issues.
if something is wrong, composer install will just fail
(reporting invalid hash, for example)
@DaveRandom the same reason you want your vendor/ folder in the repo
user895378
composer.phar is an executable. Including that in your repo is like including the PhpStorm binary in your repo.
user895378
That makes no sense to me.
13:30
@Ocramius ooooh pretty. Can you share the PS1?
It's the same as including the phpunit.phar file
@Jimbo No. PHPunit tag their releases so you can specify a version number, and then when you download that version from anywhere, you can be pretty sure you're going to get the same version as you got on your dev machine.
Composer don't tag their releases, and change behaviour of the executable without telling people.
@FlorianMargaine I don't do that either...
user895378
@Danack Wait, composer doesn't use tags?
user895378
Seems like a WTF.
13:36
I've said this before - I think they're nuts.
Theres a sweet irony right there...
Good morning
user895378
@Danack You aren't wrong. That is nuts.
user895378
@ircmaxell morning
13:37
tbh my back was very bad yesterday, and I try to avoid posting when off face on painkillers - but will probably unload there and elsewhere today.
@Danack wait, they allow composer to be a dependency of projects? HUH?
@ircmaxell No, Composer is a software dependency.....but all devs on a project should be using the same (or similar) version of a piece of software.
Composer update their code, changing the behaviour and then tell devs to run 'composer self-update'
to get the latest version, on their local machines.
user895378
Composer covers a multitude of git ignorance and leads to weirdness like that. Much of the PHP community seems to think composer is a substitute for knowing how to use version control and correctly structuring the files in their repos. Let me be clear: it's not.
I much prefer having a single version that is consistent for a project.
But you can also need composer as a dependency as code in a project - e.g. for Satis which they also don't tag.
@DaveRandom what happens if some of your dependency deletes its repo? what happens if this is during a deployment? what's the advantage of not keeping them in the repo?
13:40
@FlorianMargaine If you're depending on someone elses repo to deploy stuff, you're doing it wrong.
You should be running your own Satis - e.g. github.com/Danack/Bastion
user924016
@rdlowrey I think people just consider it like npm, bower etc
user895378
Well it's essentially a npm port to PHP.
@Danack really? I should maintain my own big server with all the deps?
user924016
=]
@rdlowrey and npm recommend people put their deps in the repo :) futurealoof.com/posts/nodemodules-in-git.html
for apps, that is
user895378
13:42
@FlorianMargaine I disagree with npm, then, too.
@FlorianMargaine Having all the deps yourself is the correct behaviour, but you don't need a big server, mine is running as a bunch of files in S3.
i.e. it's completely static once built.
what's the point of having them on another server instead of in the repo?
@FlorianMargaine Storing large number of binary files in git makes git a sad panda.
user895378
They aren't on another server.
user895378
13 mins ago, by rdlowrey
composer.phar is an executable. Including that in your repo is like including the PhpStorm binary in your repo.
user895378
13:43
^ That is completely nonsensical.
binary files? we're talking about dependencies there, in PHP. There's no binary.
^ this
user895378
Composer is not a dependency.
I was talking about the vendor/ folder since the beginning :P
user895378
Including your vendor directory in your repo is also completely nonsensical.
13:44
the fact of putting the composer.phar in the repo... I don't disagree or agree with it, it's more of a convenience
@rdlowrey why?
user895378
Because vendor dependency retrieval is the whole reason composer and git submodules exist.
@rdlowrey +1 (quickly closes Artax source tree)
@rdlowrey that's not a reason. Any argument?
user895378
@FlorianMargaine yes.
user895378
What happens when junior dev manually modifies the source code in the vendor directory?
user895378
13:46
Vendor libs are entirely different projects.
@rdlowrey I got it working, in case you're interested :D
user895378
They have no business being part of your project's source tree.
user895378
@Jimbo oh good. What was the issue?
Don't put quotes either side of all the authorization strings. So nonce=djkhf478hug, not nonce="dkjfdhfjsdf"
user895378
doh!
13:46
@rdlowrey I do that sometimes. When something in the vendor source doesn't please me.
Nightmare to debug though!
@rdlowrey they're still parts of the application though
@rdlowrey If the composer guys had a download page, where you could download specific versions of Composer, and you could tell what version of Composer you are currently using, then yes, storing specific versions anywhere would be stupid. But they don't and you can't currently install a specific version of composer easily, or tell what version is running on each devs machine.
So you need an alternative way of distributing composer as a piece of software.
would you rather share a binary with static libraries compiled in, or a binary compiler with shared libraries?
@rdlowrey including your vendor sources into your repository is like constructing an object inside method..
13:47
lol
Service locator binary
user895378
@FlorianMargaine Git is not a release manager. Your repo is for source code and development.
user895378
We're not talking about releases.
user895378
We're talking about source code.
oh, so your deployment process is completely separated from git?
user895378
And the source code for a separate dependency project doesn't belong in the source code repository for the top level lib.
13:48
you don't manage tags with git?
user895378
Those have nothing to do with the source code of your dependencies.
user895378
It hasn't; it has to do with links to dependency source code.
it's the simplest way to have no bugs ever because a library changed its tag or because you depend on dev-master
user924016
lol
user924016
13:49
if you depend on dev-master
user895378
If a dependency lib engages in that sort of stupidity you might want to reconsider who you're relying on.
user924016
you know dev-master is not stable
yeah, who hasn't ever used dev-master here?
user924016
i use it for FastRoute
@RonniSkansing you're doing it right. Usually dev-master is very stable. It's just no guarantee that it's stable. Stable versions can also be sometimes unstable.
user895378
13:50
I'm talking about people changing tags.
@FlorianMargaine me
user895378
People doing dumb things in their git workflow isn't a good reason for me to do dumb things in my git workflow.
@rdlowrey well, I don't know how stupid the libs I rely on are. I just make sure I don't depend on their stupidity.
Anybody knows of a online captcha test tool?
user895378
This is part of why I don't get excited about composer: rarely is anything it can provide worth using in my work.
13:51
@rdlowrey agree
@FlorianMargaine it's just ZSH
@Ocramius it's still a custom PS1 (or whatever it is in ZSH)
default zsh isn't like that
Ugh, my gf is making me go out with a guy a hate at the weekend :-(
user895378
lol
user924016
lol
13:52
@FlorianMargaine yeah, and iTerm
user895378
@DaveRandom That is literally The Worst
@DaveRandom use what you learned in GTA
@DaveRandom .... is that a date?
The guy is seriously a proper dick, in the latest instalment of the ongoing saga I found out he made his wife have an abortion when she didn't want to and then went and slept with some girl from his work like 3 days after
And he's always really fucking nice to my face so you can't just say "you're a dick, I hate you"
@FlorianMargaine the PS1 is ${ret_status}%{$fg_bold[green]%}%p %{$fg[cyan]%}%c %{$fg_bold[blue]%}$(git_prompt_info)%{$fg_bold[blue]%} % %{$reset_color%}
user924016
13:54
@DaveRandom lol
user924016
Does the gf know you feel like that?
@Ocramius meh, thanks anyway.
clearly not compatible with bash's PS1
@RonniSkansing Yeh but it's for the kids really so I can't exactly refuse to go
13:55
and it sounds like noone wrote a zsh's PS1 to bash's PS1 converter :(
user924016
@DaveRandom =] Well make the best of it then
@FlorianMargaine I actually liked the default bubuntu stuff better tbh
@DaveRandom jsnice.org
Try it on the chat's JS code
@Danack Dearest sir. I have not the storm known as PHP in my field of vision come this moment, however, I implore that you accept my thanks in bestowing this information upon me. Srsly, that's awesome.
@DaveRandom Why exactly is she making you? presumably she knows and thinks he's a dick too?
user895378
14:01
@DaveRandom I have been there. I empathize with you. Grin and bear it.
Tell him all about the wonders of PHP.
See if you get invited back out.
Call him a hobknocker.
He'll only google it after you leave.
in JavaScript, 10 secs ago, by Caprica Six
@SecondRikudo hob-knocker when a guy hits you in the face with his penis.
Aaaaaand that's why we don't have bots.
tag @PeeHaa
14:05
Blocking bots from visitor tracking - is it better to blacklist or whitelist?
@Fabien Because she agreed to do it ages ago and now she's doing something else
Oh you're alone too! bad times. :P Alcohol may will help
@Daniel Depends on what you use your visitor tracking for.
Mainly conversion stats but also all of the norms that GA takes care of. When comparing visitors though it's quite obvious there are a lot of bots getting through.
@Daniel That still doesn't say if you care about false positives or false negatives more.
14:12
Ah I see what you mean @Danack. I'm guessing false positives in this case, but I can see where that question can be instrumental to the thought process here.
@Daniel Yup. The other factor would be the work load in maintaining those lists...
@Fabien See @Danack we don't need bots to be perverts.
@Fabien :)
Is it even a common word?
Right - the work load is what has me thinking whitelisting may be the way to go. Definitely appreciate the input @Danack.
14:14
@Fabien Also, on that note, I wonder if Swaffelen has a similar 'root' word as Zuffle
lol!
This event driven programming is mental...
It's not like you can read through your code line-by-line in the file and see what's happening
@Jimbo Seen HTML5 SSE too?
Callbacks = jumping about between functions
@Fabien Ah, that's unidirectional communication right?
Yeah
From client side receiving.
You lost me at leading MVC frameworks for PHP. — Second Rikudo 7 secs ago
@rdlowrey Any ideas on SocketException being thrown with $e->getMessage() === ''?
@Jimbo what did you try to do?
yay, markdown fail
14:26
When sending an email with a pdf attached do you need "Content-type: application/pdf" in the header?
@DaveRandom Really basic. Async calls spamming our server for stress testing, but with auth digest half way through before doing another request. I think that might be messing it up.
Doing 10 requests seems fine, upping that number to 20 or 50+ starts giving 500 error responses
It might be my code, because I'm not used to EVP... If you fancy a browse, it's well commented and not too complex
user895378
@Jimbo I'd need to see a stack trace from the exception
user895378
(I know, this is an area that I've been meaning to improve forever)
@Jimbo Stack trace from exception plz
user1994804
14:38
Hello again to everyone.
user1994804
Motorsports fans Listen up...
/me wants to rant, but doesn't want to at the same time
user1994804
I'm a pretty novice webmaster and Im working with a Name Value array that can be seen here: classifieds.your-adrenaline-fix.com/…
@ircmaxell sigh
user1994804
Plz Use CtrlZ to see array
user1994804
14:40
I Mean CtrlA
user1994804
Sorry...
@DaveRandom I think it's the async stuff. When I set that to perform 300 requests instead of 5, it takes up to 20 seconds just to print out "Requesting 300 URI's" from the bottom, then up to a minute to start requesting... still waiting
I don't think I'm doing async
user1994804
I Stumble when trying to crank stuff out in a hurry for you guys. (2 finger typer)
2 minutes and nothing's happening...
user1994804
What I'd like to do is extract the "value" from certain indexes without relying upon the number index
user1994804
14:44
For example: What I've been trying to figure out is how can I get the "value" of "Mileage" without relying on index position of 5
I just realized that I still have a running app using MD5-based hashing... and I wrote all of it :\
I feel super-guilty now.
user1994804
so I'd be able to store "100" in a variable
user1994804
Any help on whats probably an incredibly simple question would be most appreciated
@rdlowrey there's no point in talking about taking advantage of threading found in a nbio library, we can't really use it ...
any jquery pros?
user1994804
14:47
The problem is "Mileage" is ALWAYS present, Just not always at $index[5]
why in the Earth do that ..
Yo, @Danack.
Ping me when you have a moment.
@AlmaDo Magic!
E_PROGRAMMER_IS_WIZARD
user924016
@YourAdrenalineFix so what does it do, scrape amazon and sell at a higher price?
user1994804
NO
user1994804
14:50
@RonniSkansing "No" would be the obvious answer if you reviewed the link.
user1994804
And any help would be appreciated
@NiekBergman not good kind of magic. Stinks like necromancy
anyway, garbage in => garbage out
user895378
@JoeWatkins You can if you're an extension author and you only do safe things. That's what I was talking about. Obviously PHP as it currently exists won't work with it.
user895378
14:54
But if we're going to adopt a non-blocking IO model then for threading to be in any way useful it has to accommodate non-blocking as well.
user895378
libuv does this right now.
we seem to be talking about making php event driven, that's what we're really talking about
user895378
No, it doesn't have to be event driven, it just needs to accommodate that.
how will it accomodate that ?
without itself being event driven ?
user895378
You simply expose the event loop at the beginning of the request. The last thing the request does is tell the event loop to run. If you didn't do anything that utilizes the event loop then everything works as it always has.
14:59
@rdlowrey can't you do that with an extension though?
user895378
You can, but then you have to have an extension (one of many, each of which has its own different API).
user895378
And of course the bigger problem is this:
user895378
Whether people understand it or not, all IO should be non-blocking. If you don't have a standard built-in API to support this then you get terrible async APIs like what I had to do to hack in async capability for pgsql in 5.6
@ircmaxell wtf is that you being refused access to @security ?
@JoeWatkins yup
15:02
:o :o
I get it, and I don't disagree with the logic. I do disagree with the implications made though
Wait, you were denied security?
On what grounds?
Will PHPMailer add appropriate headers based on what's set? For instance sending a pdf attachment to help avoid spam should I use customised headers or trust in PHPMailer?
I never mail internals, what's the fucking point, any sensible person can see it's a waste of time usually, some people have got to do it but I don't see that it's necessary for someone to be involved in writing pointless essays 40 times a month to be considered a contributor and see even less how that's connected to security issues, it's a mailing list about a totally different subject
I think you having been on internals in the past but not now is a great motivator.
You are very familiar with the project but you don't involve yourself in most normal matters, just security ones.
It makes a nice focus.
15:07
is that dsp ?
@JoeWatkins ya
all in all, I really don't care. I just find some of the implications made in that thread... funny...
especially since people like Yasuo have access to that list (who has no freaking clue about security)
I'm tired of twisted facts, I'm tired of people making the wrong decisions ... it is plainly illogical to disallow the author of our password hashing facilities access to the freakin security list and we should challenge ourselves to have much much higher standards when it comes to thinking through our decisions ...
which is why I kind of like the contribution I'm doing now. I'm still helping and contributing, but I get to ignore all that BS and politics and crap.
I don't care if people don't see what I am doing, or if I don't get "cred". that's not why I do it...
@Tyrael jesus christ ...
do something about it, we put one person or a few people a release in a position of power, for god sake use it ... of course Anthony is willing to forget about it and move on, that does not matter, people are making stupid decisions that are clearly harmful, based on nothing at all, fix it fix it fix it
Can this be written better? (IE. using built in function)
$projects = array();
foreach($lp_projects as $key => $project) {
	$projects[$project->ID] = $project;
}
15:17
@Tyrael prefix all of that with "please"
@JacobRaccuia $projects = $lp_projects ?
haha I wrote the wrong thing. fixed!
You could do: array_combine(array_map(function($project) { return $project->ID; }, $lp_projects), $lp_projects), but why bother. The loop is simple enough
@JoeWatkins We need to keep going with arrays :-P... Also, I have some new ideas on the type inference engine that I am going to work on soon...
hows the housing situation coming along?
@ircmaxell yes, super busy weekend will pick it up in the next few days ...
just, terrible ...
@ircmaxell thanks!
15:22
@JoeWatkins keep taking care of your personal things. That comes first. Always.
I only have one option and, it's horrible ... but looks like I'll have to take it ...
a friend has a lot of land, he's also got some big caravans ... I don't think I've got much choice and I'm trying not to think about it ;( I need time to recover and I can't do that while I'm paying normal rent, I have 7 days left before I have to leave or pay another £1000, so, have to go ...
life sort of, fell apart around me ... I was watching but there's nothing I can do about it ... but hope to recover ...
you will recover
will you get a deposit back when you leave the current place?
no, they are suing me in small claims court
15:27
on what grounds?
my misses got it wrong when she said we were a month behind on the rent, they are suing for 3k, we got papers on saturday saying they are going through small claims to get it, the deposit is counted, I haven't read the rest of the paperwork, on monday the council said they won't help us while we are being pursued, we are on our own
I can't blame her, I wasn't being paid
@Jimbo /** Schedule this stuff to happen when the reactor starts **/ makes little-to-no sense, for a start... and I'd probably put that echo before the foreach, although obv. that won't affect the functionality
hope things get better for you soon there @JoeWatkins - keep your head up brother
@DaveRandom I copied it from the example lol
@JoeWatkins sucks man :-(
15:32
But the code looks sound with the multiple callbacks right?
Haven't had time to properly analyse it tbh, will do shortly
won't help you while you are being pursued? what does that mean?
@JoeWatkins there was basically two arguments against adding @ircmaxell: that we only should add people who is willing to interact with @internals, and the other was that we already have enough people, so that adding more would be counter-productive, as the more people are, the less likely is that somebody actually does something (reference to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect I suppose)
well, we should be entitled to affordable accommodation (half the price of private sector roughly), but since we are being persued for rent arrears we don't loose the entitlement, but, it works on a scoring system and we'll not be awarded enough points to get anywhere by that system, so putting us on the list is just a gesture ...
@Tyrael what does interaction with internals have to do with security ?? does it make sense to refuse access to the security list to the person who wrote the password hashing facilities we are deploying ??
15:38
@ircmaxell seriously?
@NikiC seriously what?
@Tyrael which is why I basically said "I get it", I just didn't appreciate some of the implications made
user895378
@DaveRandom what's the "readiness" level?
well I don't get it ... I don't see what reading internals has to do with security, it's a totally separate list isn't it for a totally separate thing ...
user895378
@Jimbo I have a ton of things I want to do to vastly improve artax's async usability (it sucks right now). I will try very hard to get to it before the end of the week.
interacting with ... ofc he reads it ...
user895378
15:41
<--- Still has never received the internals mail digest. Like, never. Not once.
user895378
I just periodically check in on the web interface. It's a pretty foobar situation, actually :)
the news server is nearly always behaving strangely ...
@DaveRandom We need a PHP Elephant with Coolio dreadlocks for Loopio.
@ircmaxell seriously Yasuo being on the security ML
15:44
btw. @JoeWatkins RMs don't really have authority about deciding who can be added to the security list. I could try to force my way, but usually I'm trying to reach stuff through consensus.
@NikiC he said he was a few times in several threads...
I remember Yasuo saying a lot of ... questionable ... things on security related topics on the internals list
@Tyrael at that point, I don't even think I want to do it anyway. If it's going to be that contended to get in, then I can't possibly be effective, and hence no point to doing it.
@NikiC I don't know for a fact he's there, I'm just going off of statements he made
@ircmaxell I think that some people are salty(not sure this is the correct word) about you leaving the project with big publicity
consensus can be way off, it usually is ... flat earth, the sun/planets thing, magical people, magical animals ... consensus is a stupid thing to rely on mostly ... #justsayin ...
15:47
@Tyrael I completely get that... Which is why I'm not going to push the issue at all.
so they expect a bit more "proof" from your to be "trusted" again
well I think it's stupid ...
but these are my feelings, so I can be wrong here
yeah, I think that stuff like that wouldn't matter in a meritocracy.
well, trusted comes in several contexts. Trusted to be a reliable contributor, that's a fair question. Trusted as in not to leak and to make good decisions, I don't think that's a fair question given my prior history and record
maybe they are still remembering the case with Stefan
15:49
@NikiC maybe I misread...
@rdlowrey 0.1.0 is tagged - i.e. I'm going to call it stable.
wouldn't that be 1.0.0 @DaveRandom ?
@Fabien That would be @salathe or @webarto's bag
@JoeWatkins stable-ish then :-P
I'm not so big on committing to version 1 of anything
1.0.0-ish
I only mention because I done that and pierre said I was using versioning wrong and it should be 1.0.0 for first stable version ...
15:51
I was only just reading SemVer stuff today too. Very topical. Much convenience.
@JoeWatkins Yeh semver does say that specifically actually
@Tyrael the one thing that this opens the door to though is criticism of any future actions they do from me. Because I asked to help, and was told no. Not saying I would say anything (most times), but the case stands.
just checked
@ircmaxell I think they are aware of that
Actually @JoeWatkins it's a bridge for two libs that are still versioned at 0.x so I don't feel so bad about it :-P
15:54
it's possible to be too reasonable @ircmaxell ...
yeah, I'm mostly just rambling. I really don't care enough to be bothered. Just find some of the justifications... funny...
Combine the 0.x numbers and use that. Mildly logical and illogical.
@DaveRandom if buck is being passed around, should I dodge it ?
user924016
101
@JoeWatkins More like if they're not going to commit then neither am I. I guess we're all just a bunch of wussies...
user895378
@DaveRandom likewise. I'm pro minor versions for as long as it takes.
MAN! I'm about to grab my hammer and use it, instead of my fingers, to code AND THEN we'll see who's the boss.
Sounds reasonable.
@MoshMage The hammer?
Hammer out some code.
15:57
^
I used tiny versions forever ... I was just fact checking really ... it makes sense to me ...
I've also figured out that using frameworks sucks hairy balls - all that shenanigan about "it's easy!" "it's less work" will, from now on, come accross as those tv adds "eat this yogurt and you'll lose weight"

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