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11:01 AM
oh damn new semester is starting soon -.-
thank god the beginning of each one is usually easy
if I'm lucky, minicraft might actually get playable before shit hits the fan
 
@Ell isn't that the first skill you learn?
 
oh noes
a video
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes in university meaning it's a lot worse than malfunctioning airplane
 
Der Gefangene floh - The prisoner escaped
Der gefangene Floh - The caught flea
 
11:04 AM
well, that's pretty consistent
 
user1357851
prison = caught, prisoner is like flea?
 
no, the floh-Floh I think is just a concidence
is it flehen?
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz fliehen.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Context-sensitivity, yay~
 
@Xeo Not.
No context is required.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I got the old version to run (imgur.com/O1gXR4o) but is awful slow. Probably a linux driver thing :L
 
Xeo
11:06 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes If it's spoken...
 
It's the capitalisation that determines the meaning, not the context.
 
I know that the conflict, I want to know the output of this specific program. That was an interview question. — Vadiklk 1 min ago
 
@Xeo Oh. Yeah.
 
@Ell probably that's the not-instanced version
 
some C nerd, can tell me WHY this is?
 
Ell
11:07 AM
@TonyTheLion well I can use loads of std::cout << "st00f\n"; but can't use a debugger
but I'm learning now
 
@Ell why?
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz right okay, so now I should merge the changes and write a main_linux?
@TonyTheLion I just never learned really
 
@Ell that could be just fine
 
@Ell seriously, you should.
 
Ell
@TonyTheLion Yeah I'm learning now, gdb is not so bad
 
Xeo
11:08 AM
The safe-bool question is ever so popular~
 
is it UB to have two same name variables?
in a scope where they can see each other?
like a global x and then an x in a function
 
@Telkitty "floh" is the past tense for the verb "fliehen" (to flee). However, "Floh" is the noun "flea". "gefangene" is the past participle of the verb "fangen" (to capture). However "Gefangene" is the noun "prisoner". It's all about the capitalisation.
 
where global is also visible in the function scope
 
Ell
@TonyTheLion doesn't the local x just shadow the global>
?
 
not sure
0
Q: Weird output on a simple C program

VadiklkI have the following come in C: int x = 0; int *a = &x; void foo(int *a) { static int x = 0; x++; *a += x; a = &x; *a = x + 10; } int _tmain(int argc, _TCHAR* argv[]) { foo(a); foo(a); printf("%d\n", *a); return 0; } I can clearly debug it and see...

from this question
 
user484068
11:10 AM
@TonyTheLion No that is fine (assuming you want them indepedent)
 
hmm so what's the behaviour?
the local is always shadowing the global?
 
user484068
@TonyTheLion The most local scope is current
 
ah right
 
user484068
void f()
 
user484068
11:12 AM
{
 
user484068
int i = 0;
 
user484068
{
 
user484068
int i =2
 
user484068
}
 
user1357851
@R.MartinhoFernandes O
 
11:12 AM
@Xeo What about "Er hat in Moskau liebe Genossen." vs "Er hat in Moskau Liebe genossen."? I heard the two are spoken with different prosody, so they are not context-sensitive even in speech. Is that true?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You capitalize L when speaking :)
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, I personally would put the emphasis on "Liebe" in the second phrase, and on "Genossen" in the first one.
 
user142019
If I want to create a trait that is true only when a non-static member function seek is available, how can I do this? I currently have this but this will also work when seek is not a function:
 
user142019
template<class Stream>
struct is_seekable : std::integral_constant<bool, false> { }

template< class Stream, typename = decltype(std::declval<Stream>().seek)>
struct is_seekable<Stream> : std::integral_constant<bool, true> { }
 
@Zoidberg Parens?
 
user142019
11:17 AM
Hmm thanks. :)
 
so what's the difference between liebe and Liebe?
they both mean Love, no?
 
@TonyTheLion Adjective vs noun.
 
oh right
 
Dammit, I look like the pirate now.
 
known lol
 
11:18 AM
knoun
 
user142019
decltype(std::declval<Stream>().seek(std::declval<seek_position>()))
 
user142019
Gotta love rainbow parentheses. :P
 
user142019
Though I want rainbow angle brackets for templates but that would require C++ parser. :<
 
3gpp Y U NO SIMPLE!
 
why would you ever....
that's a dead codec, right?
 
11:23 AM
if you're talking about 3gpp, then it doesn't look dead to me
 
3GPP? that's the standards for global mobile telecoms
It's my ball and chain
it's my source of income
 
lol - ball and chain
 
and it's verbose to all fuck
 
and Java
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz what is the cross platform interface of Window supposed to look like? Atm, winapi one takes a WNDPROC. I think sfml is the way forward tbh
 
11:24 AM
@Ell well then, nothing against using SFML
 
Ell
righty-oh I'll download and build now
 
damn, you just need to replace os-specific shit
 
that shouldn't be that hard
@StackedCrooked neat
 
user142019
template<
    class Stream,
    class Container,
    typename = decltype(std::declval<Stream>().write(std::declval<Container>()))
>
struct is_writable<Stream> : std::integral_constant<bool, true> { }
 
user142019
11:26 AM
Container cannot be deduced right? :(
 
Okey, you know what, openglui is fucking dead
 
@TonyTheLion I really hope 3GPP doesn't mandate Java... might be able to propose a C++ solution :P
 
I have to start with lua bindings
 
@StackedCrooked needs more contrast
 
then just implement basics in C++
 
11:26 AM
@thecoshman that would be better than Java
 
@Zoidberg Of course not. Consider overloaded or templated write.
 
user142019
Hmm of course. Thanks again. :P
 
@TonyTheLion yes... c++ would be better then anal rape
 
@thecoshman than
 
user142019
11:27 AM
What about PHP?
 
user142019
(Tough one.)
 
If Java is anal rape, then what is PHP?
PHP is just plain torture
 
@BartekBanachewicz fuck it
 
user142019
@TonyTheLion Anal rape followed by oral rape followed by assassination followed by anal rape.
 
@TonyTheLion anal rape with a morning star
 
11:28 AM
> I have about 10% experience with basic computer programming. What I want to know is, how to I do I transitition to game programming? lol
 
user142019
> 10% experience
 
user142019
xD
 
Can we stop talking about rape?
 
user142019
 
11:29 AM
Yes, we've raped this conversation already
 
what the fuck is 100% then?
 
@BartekBanachewicz He's got 100xp, and needs 1000xp to reach level 1.
Also fucking sound drivers died again.
 
user142019
Hmm.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes which is successfuly saving the name of the program user to file
 
user142019
I could use CRTP.
 
11:30 AM
I'll need to reboot.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yourself or your machine?
 
@BartekBanachewicz "Also just to chime in a bit here, no one in the world knows 100% of C++."
 
yea, that's a bit sad
 
user1357851
Oh now we are constructing tricky sentences now
 
@Telkitty what's tricky about it?
 
user1357851
11:33 AM
how about 'I 10% beat my PC into submission'
 
user1357851
@BartekBanachewicz refer to the 10% basic programming skills
 
@Telkitty the guy was a n00b.
 
user1357851
obviously
 
user1357851
how can you have 10% basic programming skills
 
user1357851
11:36 AM
I think I worry too much, I saw a few birds behaving weirdly, I thought to myself: is there a nature disaster coming?
 
> cannot convert parameter 1 from 'const IWaxIterator *' to 'std::nullptr_t'
What.
 
yeah... 3GPP is not for the faint of heart
 
user1357851
someone trying to assign a const iterator to null?
 
Oh nevermind.
 
@BartekBanachewicz why?
 
11:38 AM
Just a weird error message.
 
@thecoshman because Lua
 
@BartekBanachewicz C++?
 
@thecoshman I dunno.
okey, yes, you're right
 
@BartekBanachewicz if you want expose game engine logic via lua, you can do this with C++. No need to get messed up with C
 
@thecoshman nah, it's for GUI not logic
 
user1357851
11:39 AM
GUI in C?
 
user1357851
really?
 
IUP is in C
and works pretty well
 
@BartekBanachewicz still, why do you need C?
 
I don't
I am just thinking aloud
it's easier to bind lua to C functions
 
user142019
Fuck CRTP free functions FTW.
 
11:41 AM
do thing properly and bind to C++ damn you!
 
@thecoshman I will
 
@BartekBanachewicz good :P
 
I'm going to eat.
 
user142019
C++ y u no ADTs and pattern matching.
 
user142019
11:43 AM
@FredOverflow lol
 
@FredOverflow is it a deleted one? Screenie please?
 
@BartekBanachewicz no, I can see it just fine
 
47
Q: What is this (( ))?

fritzoneWhile browsing through the gcc compiler source code (gcc/c-family/c-pragma.c) I see: typedef struct GTY(()) align_stack { int alignment; tree id; struct align_stack * prev; } align_stack; and regardless of having lots of C programming years behind me, the...

 
@FredOverflow oooh, now that is funny :P
 
Xeo
11:46 AM
Graaaaaaah. Anybody here worked with reviewboard and Perforce before?
 
I shiny imagination cookie to who ever provides me a crawler for the 3GPP site that will pull down all version of all specs in a nice neat way and unzip all that shit too
 
Hmm, I wonder why I had written "Hmm, I wonder" in this textbox. It appears I forgot something.
 
Hmmm you make me wonder
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I wonder what
 
about your wonderings :P
 
user142019
11:47 AM
The robot forgot something! It's a wonder!
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Get a new HDD, seems yours is failing more often lately.
 
I wonder if we all wonder what the robots wonderful wonder was
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm not surprised. I've known you do wonder for a long time
 
@Xeo could be a network time-out issue
 
@sehe What do you mean?
 
11:49 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes You, like every curious person, do wonder about things.
It's no surprise that you might have wanted to state this fact.
 
user142019
> default template arguments may not be used in partial specializations
 
user142019
What the fuck.
 
user142019
;_;
 
@StackedCrooked beautiful, starred
@Zoidberg as if you could contain the complexity if they were to be allowed
 
@Zoidberg It doesn't make sense.
 
11:52 AM
@_@ 3GPP specs... they melt the mind TMI via TLA, ifonly TL;DR was an option. FFS
 
user1357851
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes same in Dutch
 
good lords! word finally worked out the book marks for this file! that took so frigging long
 
Xeo
@Zoidberg Tell me how they should be ever be used.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Gefangene is a noun. "gefangen" is the past participle, not "gefangene"
Same in dutch. "Ik ben gevangen". (I've been caught), "Ik ben gevangene". (I'm a prisoner). No need for capitals.
 
11:56 AM
@sehe It's feminin because it works as an adjective.
 
Floh is just an example of a homonym, and casing isn't essential
 
Xeo
@sehe "gefangene" is correct here.
 
@sehe Yes, it is. The language demands it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Huh. What does that have to do with things. I haven't invoked gender, nor implied it.
@Xeo Well "here"? What context?
 
Xeo
"Der gefangene Floh."
"Der gefangen Floh." would just be wrong
"Ich bin gefangen." is correct, but it's used as an adverb (?) here. In the original sentence, it's used as an adjective.
 
11:57 AM
@Xeo "Sie hat etwas gefangen". Not "gefangene". "Das gefangene" - obviously an adiective. Do you have to capitalize that?
 
@sehe giving German lessons?
 
@Xeo That's your participle, was the whole point
 
@sehe No, that's not an adjective.
 
@NikiC No, discussing German - as far as I know it
 
@sehe It's a verb in the first sentence.
 
11:58 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes No shit. More precisely, your participle again
 
@sehe It's not an adjective in the example you say "obviously an adjective".
 
Xeo
@sehe Are you seriously trying to correct a native German here? :)
 
Unless you add a noun to it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ok. Clear
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Correct
 
12:00 PM
@sehe Didn't know that you know German...
 
@Xeo No. Unless you want to interpret it that way
 
every one here knows damn German :P
 
@NikiC He's German!
 
Xeo
Btw, I get the feeling the robot will know more about German than I do.
 
@Xeo he's clearly autistic :P
 
12:00 PM
What.
@Xeo Don't worry, I still can't understand anyone before "Langsam, bitte!".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes To cut a long story short - since everybody is having a ball and throwing all kinds of stuff in the mix:
I was responding to this "gefangene" is the past participle of the verb "fangen" (to capture). I don't think that is correct. That's all
 
user142019
@Xeo I'm using typename = for SFINAE. xD
 
user142019
Oh well I'll see.
 
argh
 
@sehe I was cutting corners :P
 
12:03 PM
company want me to travel there for interview (5 hours each way)
on the day of my gallbladder scan :(
 
Tell them you have a gallbladder scan for that day?
 
going to, it's just unfortunate.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, capital punishment in the lounge :)
 
user1357851
@DeadMG Can you re-negotiate the interview time?
 
@Zoidberg TROLOLOLOL on your twitter nick "Don Radek"
ROFL
 
user142019
12:06 PM
 
Sometimes the hardest word to say is "sorry". But most of the time it's "pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis".
@Xeo did you ask about this:
Quick Q: Is the safe-bool idiom obsolete in C++11?&#8212;StackOverflow http://bit.ly/ZnDLWW
 
Xeo
@sehe Oh, nice find.
 
I'm there @Xeo
 
@sehe well, it is, right?
 
Xeo
@Cicada Oh hi
@BartekBanachewicz Just click the link. :P
 
12:12 PM
@BartekBanachewicz ...
 
Xeo
@Cicada Gimme a sec
 
@Cicada hi.
 
hi
 
^ this is what you get when you analyse .bash_history (and similar?) files found in github repos... pretty cool
@R.MartinhoFernandes and our quip quibble with ln(1) is confirmed:
> It's interesting that ln is right at the top of the list, considering how simple the command syntax is
 
user1357851
ls > cd?
 
12:16 PM
@Cicada For the quite interesting (I think?) news, I've talked with a colleague here, and he suggested a) using tesselator for cube generation, which should simplify invisible walls culling even more b) a great idea of implementing the planet curvature, which would implicitly limit the view distance.
 
user1357851
why kept on listing directory?
 
@Telkitty pros don't use cd
 
@BartekBanachewicz A tesselator? What for?
Also you generally limit view distance with "fog"
 
@Cicada hmm, instead of keeping all vertices, you just keep "entities" and generate triangles on-the-fly
 
user1357851
@BartekBanachewicz what do they do then (pros don't have all stuff in one directory either)
 
12:17 PM
@Cicada that's so 1998
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh that makes sense
@BartekBanachewicz Please give me an example of a game that implements planet curvature instead of fog, thank you
 
@Cicada Yes and no. And depends :)
@Cicada he said that pretty much of all his games used it. He even allowed for a zoom-out that showed the whole planet. I think it's pretty damn cool. Well, the fog also has to be used, to compensate for air density anyway
 
Xeo
@Cicada: Copy-paste from the project: pastebin.com/uzq0RyVe. As may be visible, I hoped I'd be able to combine assign_attrs1 and assign_attrs2 :/
 
Ell
But how would planet curvature work if everything is made of cubes?
 
@Ell you take it into account on very large distances
 
12:20 PM
@Xeo Why not pass attr1/attr2 by param?
 
Xeo
@Cicada That's what I tried to explain yesterday - it doesn't work.
 
How did you pass it?
 
@Cicada I've also found this article - it has some nice ideas worth looking at, too. The guy used simplex noise in a way that finally made it interesting for me :)
@Ell when near camera, you can just render them as plain cubes. Far away you can just move them down the Y axis a bit. Remember, it's a simulation, not a planet made of cubes.
 
Xeo
@Cicada (a, x) => a.lower_min = x, for example. And even stuffing ref where I could, no workies.
 
@sehe Haha, I knew it!
@Xeo Lambdas can't ref.
(Disclaimer: I have zero context)
 
12:23 PM
Has anyone built LLVM on windows using MSVC2012?
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, that's what I concluded.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Though I don't share his analysis. I think the beef is with use cases like mass linking (ln -sfv libmylib*.so /usr/lib/) and re-linking existing directory symlinks (ln -sfvn boost_1_54_0/ boost)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Neither can they out. I'm still undecided whether I think this is great or annoying
 
@Xeo ItemTemplateAttribute is a struct right
 
Xeo
@Cicada Yea
 
@Xeo FWIW, the CLI has what it takes for lambdas with ref (i.e. storing refs; something you can't do in C#). But it is not allowed because funargs.
 
Xeo
12:26 PM
The problem was that the assignment inside the lambda didn't reflect on the passed object.
So I thought it copies them
And tried ref - which doesn't work.
 
The compiler could generate the lambda with a ref member, but it would be prone to funargs fun, so they disallow it (same reason they disallow ref members).
 
decoding websocket traffic by hand, yay
 
Xeo
They don't even need to store ref shit, they just need to allow it for a parameter...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I believe it is possible to hack your way into this with unsafe and a number of un(der)document language primitives. SO has an answer on that
 
Xeo
Also, closing over attr1 and attr2 directly does reflect the changes, so I really don't understand what's going on.
 
12:28 PM
@Xeo Use an anonymous delegate.
 
Xeo
Meh, I just kept the duplicate work and I'm not interested in touching that code again
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wait, doesn't that have the same restriction?! I think delegates cannot be declared with out/ref params either. Oh, and not with params params either. ICBWT
@Xeo +1
 
Xeo
Oh yeah, I just remembered, I installed VsVim.
 
"Fixing" it further would likely result in code that is too clever by half. The purpose is for it to be both correct, and somewhat maintainable. Some things will always just hurt slightly.
@Xeo Huh. You forgot about that? Or you remembered to mention it
 
Xeo
12:31 PM
@sehe I installed it yesterday and didn't start any new instance of VS2010 since then, so I forgot until I opened the project just now.
 
heh! I know what to do :)
(I think)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Whoa. MIND BLOWN. I should have known this before. I've used this in a crappy API interface. And it was a painful thing to work around.
@Xeo Har har. :)
 
Actually, I don't know why lambda ref parameters are not allowed (my diatribe above is about captures)
 
Because lifetimes
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes By the way, did you know you can have a generic delegate type :)
 
12:32 PM
@Cicada No such issue.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, captures I can maybe understand, but parameters.. :(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Such issue.
Lambdas can be stored
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's probably mainly about Func<>/Action<> compatibility: generic type parameters wouldn't be able to express this
 
@Cicada No really. They are params and they cannot be stored. No lifetime issues.
 
If you pass a stack param by ref, what happens?
 
12:33 PM
Every method with ref parameters has whatever the same issues you might be alluding to.
 
Nope
 
@Cicada The lambda runs, returns, and everything is fine.
 
Pointing to a ref struct on the stack? I don't think so
But you must be right
 
@Cicada Why not? How could the ref possibly outlive the pointed-to object?
 
/thread
 
12:34 PM
@Cicada The current function does not return before any of the functions it calls.
 
@Cicada Lambdas captures always box your struct. In essence your local struct is no longer a valuetype. See Eric Lipper's blog
 
@sehe because no byref
anyway yes you're right, moving on etc
 
@Cicada blogs.msdn.com/b/ericlippert/archive/2010/09/30/… "The Truth About Value Types"
 
@sehe But anonymous delegates can be stuffed in those too. And lambdas can be stuffed in explicit delegate types.
They are interchangeable in all respects but that one.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ... That's surprising. Because: if you were able to stuff a delegate void foo(out object o) into a Action<object> that would be ... evil to say the least (I'm guessing it is arbitrarily denied)
 
12:37 PM
@sehe No, but you can put one void foo(object o) there. They behave exactly the same as lambdas, except for less type inference and ref/out.
 
I still think they didn't want the CLR typesystem to be encumbered with 'ref'/'out'/'params' argument kinds on generic type arguments.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, that was pretty obvious.
 
@sehe It doesn't need to. See my example above. Why not MyFunType fun = (ref int x) => x = 1;?
I don't even see how that would make the compiler any more complex (i.e. whatever complexity might be needed is already there)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Good question. It looks like they still support this. It would be most interesting to see what IL is actually generated as the anonymous type for an anonymous delegate with captures and ref params.
afk
 
@sehe A class with a regular method with ref params. The captures still can't be ref.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah. I forgot about the arguments don't actually need to be part of the type's 'decorated' name (it can be generated as a non-generic type). Thinko
 
12:41 PM
Eric posted about ref everythings before, btw. blogs.msdn.com/b/ericlippert/archive/2011/06/23/…
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Thanks for the link. Reading later
 
Oh, wait, I remembered wrong. The CLI does not actually allow for ref fields. So ref captures cannot possibly work without very deep hackery.
 
Xeo
Time for unsafe!
 
you are all speaking some strange language I don't understand
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You didn't state anything to the contrary, AFAICS
 
12:45 PM
> For example, if you pass a value type in a local variable as such a ref parameter, the value's lifetime would extend beyond its stack frame.
oh well
just sayin
 
@Xeo Yeah. I was trying to find the 'CLR magic' that I've seen to force unsafe references. You can store them as fields that way. It's accessible from plain C# (unsafe, that is)
 
@Cicada That's an example which captures it.
@sehe How do you pin it long enough?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You don't. That's what makes it a bad idea. I hate that I can't find it
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's not what I was looking for, but it is similar in gist
I will assume that the question I was looking for has been deleted.
 
12:50 PM
om nom nom, lunch is tasty passable
 
afk now really. (need lunch)
 
@Xeo heh well, the only "proper" way to do it would be to make a method on the struct
otherwise unsafe / extension method byref (needs VB)
sorry!
 
Xeo
aka the easiest option is to just duplicate it.
 
Value types are a bad idea more often than not.
 
how is DnD in terms of noob friendly and quality?
 
12:53 PM
@thecoshman quality is quite good, but noob friendly... depends
 
Xeo
@thecoshman Depends totally on the DM, I think.
 
@thecoshman You mean Dungeons & Dragons? It obviously depends on your play group.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not my descision to make that thing a struct~
 
First time DM, mostly first time players
 
@thecoshman first time DM will have problems in DnD
 
12:55 PM
@thecoshman Is the DM a first time player?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes myes (and let's just work with me as it :P )
 
When we started we were all first time players. It worked out alright.
 
any suggestions for a better system?
 
@thecoshman Paranoia is awesome! But I'm not sure if it's a good idea to start with.
 
@Xeo probably
 
Ell
12:58 PM
I'm gonna try minicraft on windoze now
 
@Cicada run Kyro' yet?
 

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