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00:05
^ The puppy if he'd be teaching. Or whatever
I have an interesting, well possibly interesting question. I'm having an argument on skype with a friend. And he's wondering how it is that newer generation CPUs can outperform older generation CPUs by having lower clock speeds. My answer was that I believed they achievement more in each cycle but I can't find an article to back me up.
Am I wrong or just incompetent at googling?
@Borgleader Arguments with friends are rarely interesting to third parties :)
The argument no, but the question could be...
@Borgleader I think it is basically true. Also, the main thing is memory bandwidth. Ever in creasing cache / cache efficiency does a lot
I'm not about to look up articles, but I wager Wikipedia should have a thing or two on the history of i386 design, as an example
I think, a big factor is also the ever increasing number of transistors: separate instructions can be done by dedicated circuits nowadays, making room for lot more 'implicit parallelism' and better pipelining.
I have read some of these things before. I'd be surprised if it wasn't on Wikipedia
Ah cool, I'll see if I can locate these :)
Its a lot more specific than "how do cpu achievement more with lower clock speed"
xDD
00:09
@sehe I'm not hosting any of it. But I have a lot of "cartoons".
Aha. You're hosting the storage. Your just not distributing/serving it.
More than a few GB actually...
Wii U is sold out in Best Buy too.
That makes.. GameStop and Best Buy unavailable in only 2 days.. Damn Console rush.
Its the Wii rush all over again
Mostly because Nintendo don't have the production capacity MS and Sony do
or so I've heard
00:33
It creates demand, it's god damn genius.
00:48
anybody here?
Wii U? I must have missed that too.
Tony, just keep your distance. I'll be over here munching a few leaves.
@TonyTheLion Sorta
@CaptainGiraffe Hahaha
@sehe lol
I don't think Lions hunt Giraffes
they're a bit too large
and really a last resort
also I'm a special breed of cat
How does the phones get such a good location with only the 3G network.
because 3G is the awesums
00:52
@CaptainGiraffe A good question. But for which SE site?
@sehe I can't tell superuser? a beta I haven't visited?
@CaptainGiraffe Electrical engineering :) - nah
Also my android phone tells me the location can be improved by turning on wifi, even though I'm not connected to the network. Really? that's also a wtf for me.
Honestly, I think it somehow uses traceroute type info to arrive at the location. I know google has once gathered information about wifi networks so they could use scanned SSIDs for extra geolocation
@sehe Not a bad idea
00:56
@CaptainGiraffe They were out driving for streetview and maps anyway
It created a bit of controversy when people found it out, though
@sehe Yes very much so.
From my readings it seems 3G includes location info in some it's standard data it sends around
> The bandwidth and location information available to 3G devices...
From Wikipedia ^
@TonyTheLion It will probably contain identification of the UMTS/3G beacons. You know, kinda like a MAC address
Ell
Ell
Haloo
Also they seem to know my home adress, which is easy to extrapolate, but still a little bit scary
00:59
@sehe probably, I don't know much about phone systems at all.
@CaptainGiraffe Big Brother is always watching. :P
@CaptainGiraffe How did you arrive at that conclusion?
@Ell Ohey, earlier you got a boobs reference, that the Lion didn't. You're turning into a pussy :)
@sehe My phone tells me at my friends place, take this bus you are 32 minutes away from home. "Google Cards"
Ell
Ell
I don't think being watched is so bad
@CaptainGiraffe Mmm. Perhaps, like most people, you have once confirmed your current location as home
@Ell You haven't been to room 101.
01:02
@Ell Sorry, fixed my typo
@sehe Nope, it still asks me. -Is this your home =)
@CaptainGiraffe But it still tells you how far from home you are. Interesting. Probably just uses heuristics based on where you spend the most time
Ell
Ell
Oh yeah hehe that was a pretty good boob joke. And maybe I am just young and naive :L
@sehe Yep, that was my conclusion too
I have noticed that Google Navigation is uncannily accurate in predicting my most likely destination address based on day-of-week + time-of-day
It was really surprising that after 3 weeks of being on vacation, I'd get into my car and Google Nav would just perk it's ears up and say "O hey, are we going to work now?"
Ell
Ell
01:04
Google navigation can do that? O.o
@sehe Yes, uncanny is the feeling I get too. That is why I want to gain some more insight.
@Ell Oh, about the ears - I made that up
Ell
Ell
I mean predicting your whereabouts
Anyway back in a while, cya all. Maybe ggoodnight if I'm not back soon enough
I really don't want to go full RMS style on my life, I like my phone.
Does std::vector::shrink_to_fit() erase the empty vector objects?
01:23
@Rapptz If you mean does it make size() == capacity()? I don't think it's required to
> shrink_to_fit is a non-binding request to reduce capacity() to size().
Oh.
@EtiennedeMartel I remember that GIF making me laugh really really hard.
01:37
wow 394 is hard
Doesn't seem that difficult.
What's hard about it
probability distribution fussing
expected-number-of problems are almost always tricky
393 was better.
01:49
that one is just by row dp
hey coders.
Well I haven't solved 94 questions out of 394.
So most of these are kinda new to me
@Alamri Hello.
i have question about c++
@Rapptz
is there a defferent between blackberry 10 c++ language and other c++languages like for PC?
01:53
I wouldn't know.
so if i learned general c++ will i be able to develope for blackberry 10
ok :(
@Alamri Probably.
where did you learn it ^^ ?
Tutorials and books.
Look here
1558
Q: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

grepsedawkThis question attempts to collect the few pearls among the dozens of bad C++ books that are released every year. Unlike many other programming languages, which are often picked up on the go from tutorials found on the Internet, few are able to quickly pick up C++ without studying a good C++ book...

@Rapptz thank you.
is it harder than Java ?
01:56
Subjective, no idea.
@Alamri C++ is an incredibly complex language that has a tendency to be very badly taught.
@EtiennedeMartel you scared me bro :(
Learning the basics is pretty easy.
In my experience C++ tends to be taught as C with classes and oh heres a few STL containers
@Borgleader POINTERS EVERYWHERE!
@Rapptz Depends on where you actually learn them.
01:58
Messing up the basics is pretty fucking hard to do.
C IO functions, C IO functions everywhere
i will learn C it sound similar to java
C is not similar to java its not object oriented
lol C
but it have classes tho ^^
02:00
No it doesnt
No it doesn't
ok :(
i will stuck with my html lol
Not even related.
:(
the first thing i will do is reading about it in wiki...
HTML is a markup language not a programming language hence the name HyperText Markup Language
02:01
yup , i will use it to build interfaces
People here tend to hate on online tutorials a lot but there are a couple of good ones out there.
| latest release version = ISO/IEC 14882:2011 | latest release date = 2011 | latest_test_version = | latest_test_date = | typing = Static, unsafe, nominative | implementations = | dialects = | influenced_by = C, Simula, Ada 83, ALGOL 68, CLU, ML | influenced = Perl, LPC, Lua, Pike, Ada 95, Java, PHP, D, C99, C#, Falcon, Seed7 | operating_system = Cross-platform (multi-platform) | license = | website = | file_ext = .h .hh .hpp .hxx .cc .cpp .cxx | wikibooks ...
good step tho
Yep. That's Wikipedia.
yes i must first know what the hell is it befor i start learning it << lazy guy
Oh yes, I'm still here.
02:03
@Rapptz A few ones. Most of them are crap that teach you about new and delete before vector and string.
yess i know strings in java :D
That's amazing.
You'll hate strings in C++.
lol
how to i write string in c++ ?
google it?
ok :(
02:05
std::string s = "Hello";
std::string a = "string";
wooow why there is two "::"
ogonek::text. Okay, okay, I'm not serious.
string is part of the std namespace
Which is part of the <string> header.
02:05
ah great info
So I see my name came up in here a few hours ago.
Everything in the standard library is prefixed with std
so i can strip that string and replace parts in it like java ?
@Chimera Yeah. @DeadMG talked about you like you fucking disappeared from the face of the Earth. I told him that you simply changed names.
@Alamri C++ has much fewer "utility functions".
02:07
ah , good info
@Chimera He was talking about an American that left here or something and thought it was you.
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah I noticed. He thought I couldn't handle this room. lol But I learned quickly not to take anything personally here.
www.cplusplus.com/reference/string/string/replace/
Bad mistake #1. Using cplusplus.com
@Alamri Oh, yeah, don't use cplusplus.com.
02:08
lol why ?
There are some errors here and there.
errors everywhere huh ?
Nothing serious, but honestly, prefer using en.cppreference.com/w .
@Alamri Not everywhere...
I like the whole wiki reference style cppreference is going on. I feel like that's the way shit should be referenced.
I know examples helped me a lot, and still do, when I was a beginner and cplusplus' examples were really bad.
02:10
could some one tell me what is C++/Qt Cascades
So I'm watching this movie that is claiming J Edgar Hoover was gay.
@Chimera Oh. What if he was?
-1
Q: Recommendation for Improving Programming Skills

Moaz ELdeenI'm 25, I know C++ syntax since 9 years.. but It seems that I have copied so much code, and I didn't learn that much and didn't solve a lot of algorithms in my own. Currently I'm working for computer vision programmer as a junior and I have difficulity of doing algorithms like blob tracking or ob...

@EtiennedeMartel Doesn't matter at all. I just didn't know much about him.
lol
02:11
@Rapptz C++/Qt Cascades
I don't use Qt.
@Alamri Qt is a GUI framework for C++. Or at least that's what it was wen it started. Now it's essentially a complete replacement for the C++ standard library with a similar scope to Java's base library, and with a tendency to encourage bad programming practices.
And the wikipedia page says both... so just curious.
@EtiennedeMartel oh, thank you
Wish C++ had better GUI frameworks.
WinForms is discouraging because it looks like raped C#.
02:13
@Rapptz Was there ever a GUI framework proposal for Boost?
It must have been much harder being gay back in the 40's and 50's.
Don't think so. Never heard of it if there was.
It would be nice to be able to point to a library of some kind when someone asks "How can I make a GUI in C++?" that's not Qt or wxWidgets
@Insilico Qt comes to mind,
I've never used wxWidgets and I really disliked Qt when I tried it
02:14
wxWidgets
Is wxWidgets any good?
@Rapptz wxWidgets used to have a message map mechanism that is just as crappy as MFC's.
I don't think it uses message maps anymore though
<(-.-)>
Must have something like a message map internally no?
The thing is that I would really like a GUI toolkit. Not GUI toolkit+everything else but the kitchen sink.
02:15
@Rapptz Fucking old, I think.
@Chimera I don't think so.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hi there.
I also would like to see a GUI toolkit that plays nice with the C++ standard library
Hey, it's my favorite robot!
(Actually, you're second, WALL-E comes first)
Ell
Ell
Hey guys
Hey bot
02:17
Every other toolkit I've seen either attempts to replace the standard library or is impossible to use with the standard containers well.
hey Ell
@Ell hey
@Insilico This is really what I'm looking for too.
Why call it a C++ framework if it has no C++?
(And of course they don't even do a good job with replacing the standard library either!)
Ell
Ell
GUIs are difficult
02:18
@EtiennedeMartel It's ok, WALL-E is cool.
Ell
Ell
What would you store it as? Xml? Or do you prefer hard coded guis?
@Ell GUIs without tools is a fucking nightmare.
@Ell XML would be optional, but not required.
Please no XML.
It should be relatively easy for a designer to emit C++ code to build the GUI
Ell
Ell
02:19
What instead of xml?
Yeah, think of the children.
JSON!
Honestly, I don't fucking know.
Seems Ole J Edgar was a bit of law breaker himself.... Brings into question the beginnings of the FBI
XML seems fine if you have tools to deal with it.
All I know is that coding any GUI by hand is painful (see Swing for more details).
@Ell Doesn't matter. XML does not play nice with the humans.
@R.MartinhoFernandes The irony being that it's supposed to be a "human readable" format.
02:20
It also doesn't play nice with Fernandes-class Destroyer Robots.
Ell
Ell
how about a scripting language for GUI
@Ell What I want is to be able to do it declaratively. I don't think whatever language I do that in is very important (but don't make it painful like XML).
evening everyone :)
@EtiennedeMartel :)
@Ell Yes. Because I need to learn another language to use your toolkit.
@ITNinja Good evening.
02:21
@Ell Like Tcl?
Ell
Ell
Well script as data. So I can do .width = 40/90000007
Tcl/Tk
Ell
Ell
Never seen TCL but yeah I think so
XAML is the closest thing I've seen to a decent thing, but it's still too verbose for my tastes (you can't write it without autocnçompletion).
I like the concept behind XAML and MVVM
02:23
If I was designing a GUI library I would just make it not a pain in the ass to build a GUI in a declarative manner in straight C++.
@EtiennedeMartel I find the fact that you can't comment out individual attributes (inherited from XML) really annoying.
It shouldn't require 5 different languages to put together a GUI.
@Chimera Is that movie any good? It was so slow I gave up on it in about half an hour
@Insilico It would still suck.
C++ is ill-suited for that.
Ell
Ell
But not having to recompile would be nice
02:24
@Insilico It shouldn't require heaps of template errors either :P
@Prætorian It gets a bit better, but it is slow all the way through.
Ell
Ell
I just want a cross platform GUI in any language :L any toolkit that is sane
@EtiennedeMartel GUI coding sucks in general. XML is not going to improve that.
I rather like Windows Forms
@Insilico In case you haven't noticed yet, I'm one of the biggest XML haters in here.
02:25
My hatred for XML is bigger than yours!
@EtiennedeMartel I like Qt's use of Javascript to describe GUI's especially the fact that you can put a conditional statement right in the GUI, instead of having to resort to triggers and such
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sure. That probably means you're compensating for something anyways.
@Chimera And pretty long, isn't it?
Probably the best solution is to make a GUI designer and have it emit C++ code.
@Prætorian Yep, 2.5 hours
02:26
@Prætorian I actually somewhat despise that feature. There's no separation of logic and presentation when you do that.
I hear Blend for WPF is pretty good
I heard WPF is hard to learn
@Insilico I agree that you can let it get out of hand, but I feel it's useful for simple if-else logic
@Borgleader Well, it's better than VS's built-in designer, that's for sure.
@Chimera I don't think it's very hard, but it is vast
02:28
@Chimera: not that hard just very different than what I was used to
@Prætorian WPF is the only GUI framework I know of that has a 10-level deep inheritance hierarchy (or something like that).
Isn't Blend only for Windows 8?
@Borgleader yeah, when I tried to use it I was utterly lost and felt like I needed a substantive tutorial to even begin.
@Rapptz No, Blend is at least four years old.
@Rapptz Expression Blend? Runs on XP.
02:29
@Rapptz: No I have it installed on Windows 7
@Chimera Some frameworks have a learning curve. WPF has a learning cliff.
I meant the one for Visual Studio 2012.
again no
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, that was the feeling I got.
@Rapptz There's one in VS2012? You mean I don't have to waste my fucking time with that crappy XAML designer?
02:30
@Chimera You probably need to forget what you know before you can learn it. Kinda like when you move from Java to C++.
Well I have it on my computer, might as well open it.
@Rapptz That works on Win 7 also
@Chimera Yes, especially if you've been exposed to WinForms.
@EtiennedeMartel You do. He's getting the terminology wrong.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Awww, fuck.
02:30
@EtiennedeMartel Yes, all of my work on Windows has been Winforms
I've never used it, I just know I have it and it's called "Blend for Visual Studio 2012"
Anyway when I open it tells me it's used for Windows 8 App development
@EtiennedeMartel Oh wait, there is. But apparently the built-in VS designer is still around.
and if I want to use it I have to install something.
@Chimera Well, let's just say that "clean" WPF is completely different from WinForms.
02:32
@EtiennedeMartel Can you recommend a good book?
@Rapptz The fuckers.
Of course my first WIndows programs used C and the Win32 api.
Oh the joy of a writing all those message handlers
@EtiennedeMartel ah thanks
@Rapptz Ah, those crafty buggers.
02:33
Oh I might get that
@Chimera Writing anything with just the Windows API is painful.
I start learning WPF during my internship this summer
@Insilico It was, but I enjoyed knowing the details
Pretty much everything has to be wrapped in a library to make it not painful
@Rapptz What does that mean? That whatever flavor of Blend you have only supports C++/Cx development?
02:34
@Chimera True, it's really close to the metal in operating system terms.
@Prætorian Guess so.
Speaking of GUIs, did I mention Android's GUI framework is crap?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes. Several times.
So did the cat.
Interesting that it's a Sams book, don't they normally suck?
02:35
And I generally responded by saying how nice WPF is, just to make you suffer even more.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Weren't you the one complaining a few days ago that it doesn't even have data binding?
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's Java-based, so yes it is crap.
@Rapptz Well, the cat is kinda biased towards saying anything is crap.
@Prætorian Yes.
This is what it wants me to install.
lol.
I wonder what UI data binding would look like if I had to implement it in C++.
02:37
@Insilico moc :D
It should of course not be sucky and slow as hell.
@EtiennedeMartel I'm confused what you mean by learning curve vs learning cliff.
@Prætorian I've always felt that moc was a huge cop-out. :-P
@Rapptz It's not easy to use at first.
There are so many things you have to know.
It would be nice to be able to use the C++ standard containers as the data sources to bind to in UI widgets.
02:38
@Insilico It is a turn-off. Especially when you see Boost managing signals & slots without custom preprocessing
A learning cliff is a learning curve where the angle approaches 90degrees
I know Qt does more than just that, but still ...
@Borgleader Thank you.
So a learning curve is n^2?
See I've never liked these metaphors they're pretty weird.
Curves have angles?
A learning cliff is a learning curve where the derivative approaches infinity.
02:40
It's a fucking wall.
You're like "oh my, I'm so gonna learn new things!" and then bam! Broken face. And your girlfriend leaves you. And you house burns. And kids piss on you.
Too bad it's just for Windows. I'd be more inclined to learn it if it was cross-platform
90% of the desktop market is on Windows.
Well I will learn it, but just wish it wasn't just windows.
@EtiennedeMartel Yep
@Chimera GUIs are very much not cross-platform things though.
Yeah I don't care much about portability as much as I should.
02:42
And the desktop is basically the only market for GUIs.
Yes, they all have buttons and windows but a Mac UI is very much different from a Windows UI
(For those kinds of GUI frameworks anyways)
Honestly I'm getting fond of the Windows 8 UI
Visual Studio 2012 isn't ugly at all except for the All Caps.
user406009
@Rapptz Are you in metro or desktop mode?
Neither. I'm on Windows 7.
user406009
02:43
Desktop seems pretty fine. It is just metro which sucks balls.
"Gargle gonads".
Metro looks like donkey cock to me
It seems like a throw back to Win3.11
@Chimera That's an insult to actual donkey cocks.
@Rapptz I think there's some registry edit option to turn that off
@JerryCoffin lol
02:44
@Prætorian Yeah there is.
@Chimera I like it on my phone, but I'm a lot more skeptical of using it on my desktop
@Rapptz I disagree -- the all caps is the least of its problems.
@Prætorian Yeah, on a small screen device it might be fine.
Yeah. Wait.
@JerryCoffin I like the syntax highlighting and intellisense :(
02:45
Jun 11 at 4:45, by Etienne de Martel
"VISUAL STUDIO: CONCRETE WALL EDITION"
To the point that I tried my best to emulate it over to Code::Blocks.
I don't need no stinking IntelliSense,,, I use ed
user406009
Whoever thought of the idea that a tablet and a desktop should have the same UI should be shot.
@Rapptz As a Visual Assist-X user, I've been had decent syntax highlighting and Itellisense since VS 5 (if not earlier, but so long it's only when I have to try to survive without it that I realize VS still seriously sucks on its own).
I've always used vanilla so the changes I really enjoy.
02:48
Visual Assist-X is so expensive
I wish CodeKana would work in VS2010
I'm using C#. My life is so easy.
Yeah, I don't get why people love IntelliSense so much, when it's sooooo primitive.
@Borgleader It only hurts once. Updates are quite reasonable.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I also don't get where people get the idea that IntelliSense == The Compiler
I don't recall it being in VS2010, but when I hover over something it tells me the documentation. Which I think is pretty nice.
02:50
@Insilico Oh but it is a compiler now
@Insilico Somehow people get the idea that "Anything == The Compiler" :(
@Prætorian ... but an entirely separate and different compiler.
@Prætorian Sure, in the sense that it has an EDG front end.
user406009
Usually people say the IDE is the compiler(at least that's been my humble experience)
@JerryCoffin Is that for the visually impaired?
Never heard of it
02:51
lol, no.
@Chimera VA-X you mean? I suppose it might have a mode for that, but if so I've never used it.
@JerryCoffin Yep, I was pissed about all the extra files that VS2010 was generating until I discovered that
@JerryCoffin Yes, that's what I was referring to.
@EthanSteinberg Yeah I keep having to remind people that devenv.exe != cl.exe.
02:53
@Chimera They have a free trial, but it's a lot like the Heroin dealer giving the first dose away for free -- don't try it unless you can afford to buy it when the trial runs out.
@JerryCoffin Yeah it looks real cool. Watching the video now.
Is it only for C++?
@JerryCoffin I tried VAX once. Thought it was incredibly slow and lacked many features. Although that might have been because I had also used ReSharper which, as a tool for .NET, actually can have many more features than VAX, which is a C++ tool.
Those things should carry a warning: "WARNING: You will never again be able to use VS on its own"
user406009
Do you guys have issues with having both visual studio 2010 and visual studio 2012 installed?
Someone tried to reset my Amazon account password. Hmm.
02:56
@EthanSteinberg no
@Chimera Yes.
Looks like a nice tool
@EtiennedeMartel Yes, it's pretty easy to add a lot more features for .NET. Not quite so sure about speed. Initially parsing headers is slow, but I've never noticed any speed problems once that's done.
Alt+Enter spoiled me.
What does that do
02:59
@Rapptz With R#? Magic!
lol

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