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6:00 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes did your own volition lead you to come into existence in Canada?
 
stackoverflow.com/questions/10725299/… Question of the evening. A quite interesting opportunity to compare templates to move-semantics in the context of matrix-evaluation
 
@stdOrgnlDave What's this thing about Canada? I came into existence in outer space.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes where did you first land
 
Oh god. Semantics. There we go again.
 
6:01 PM
In your ass.
 
Pacific Ocean.
Won't reveal coordinates.
 
@EtiennedeMartel that reminds me inexplicably of bad lip reading's videos
 
@Cicada God semantics sounds good.
 
anyhow also the female commander shephard was such a frickin' better voice actress for ME3 than the male one, it helped the ending a lot for me to be using femshep
 
Anyway, the tragic thing about ME3's ending is that after watching it, I couldn't possibly give a flying shit about anything happening in that universe. It's like it killed any feeling I might have for the franchise.
 
6:03 PM
@EtiennedeMartel
@EtiennedeMartel I can respect that about why you hated the ending, at least.
 
After ME2, I was pumped for the sequel, but now, I don't even care.
 
although, TBH, it's good you're not craving an ME4 'cuz you're not gonna get one :-D
 
Yeah, but they could magically fix the ending with a DLC, and I probably wouldn't even buy it.
Or get it if it's free.
 
ME3 = best superhero game ever made, even if it's not best ending of trilogy possible
 
The best superhero game ever made was Infamous 2
 
6:04 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes 145W, 38N
 
@EtiennedeMartel the "ending fix" is gonna be free. they don't change it, they just expound upon what happens.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Raaaaaaaaaaaaaainbows.
 
@EtiennedeMartel did you watch the video I linked? the vanguard on insanity one?
 
@stdOrgnlDave Did you play Infamous 2?
 
yes.
answer my question.
 
6:05 PM
No, I didn't.
But vanguards are OP as hell anyway.
 
ME? (please don't permaban me)
 
@CaptainGiraffe Mass Effect
 
Rainbow Effect.
 
Anyway, Infamous 2's good ending almost made me cry (I say almost because I don't cry, but I still felt something weird).
 
I wanna shave that mustache and have gelato
@EtiennedeMartel watch the damn video, please?
 
6:07 PM
I played Infiltrator ...
I like the sniper slow.
 
Are there any other languages that has anything like move-semantics? not counting Java VM-C#/.NET VM based stuff?
 
That said, anyone who hasn't played EarthBound cannot possibly know what is a great video game story.
 
where moves does not make sense
 
(Mother 3 is an acceptable substitute)
 
@EtiennedeMartel Incorrect. That works only for Chrono Trigger (SNES)
Also final fantasy IX is pretty close.
 
6:08 PM
@ScarletAmaranth Yeah, that was good. But EarthBound was a mindfuck.
 
@CaptainGiraffe we discussed it yesterday. Moves only make sense in languages with value semantics but where the values aren't immutible. So: just C++.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I'm not saying it's bad but i have played most if not all snes rpgs and there's huge competition.
 
I just realized my potatoes have puree semantics
 
@ScarletAmaranth Gameplay-wise, sure. I'd even admit that EB's gameplay was somewhat sucky compared to the other SNES RPGs.
But story-wise, no.
 
@MooingDuck So your conclusion yesterday is that all modern language use value semantics, not references.
 
6:11 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah possibly, it's difficult to argue about that. Yet my very most favourite game saga has always been Final Fantasy.
 
nobody here can argue that the vanguard isn't the best until you watch that 4-minute video. then you can argue. youtube.com/watch?v=wOua8txSPkk infiltrator is #2 tho
 
FFVI was great.
 
The Great Pacific Garbage Patch, also described as the Pacific Trash Vortex, is a gyre of marine litter in the central North Pacific Ocean located roughly between 135°W to 155°W and 35°N to 42°N. The patch extends over an indeterminate area, with estimates ranging very widely depending on the degree of plastic concentration used to define the affected area. The Patch is characterized by exceptionally high concentrations of pelagic plastics, chemical sludge, and other debris that have been trapped by the currents of the North Pacific Gyre. Despite its size and density, the patch is not...
 
@CaptainGiraffe I don't know any other language where it makes sense.
 
Super Mario RPG was great.
 
6:12 PM
@stdOrgnlDave These menu transition are great
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, mine's: IX, VI, VII, X, XII, VIII ... :P
 
@MooingDuck I can agree, but thats a pretty poor state of affairs.
@RMartinhoFernandes ditto the comment to Mooing
 
@EtiennedeMartel And yes, super mario RPG is a classic. The combat system is real fun.
 
Yeah, I like being able to actually participate in the battle instead of just picking options.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yarrr. Seiken Densetsu 3 was fun.
 
6:14 PM
With this insight it feels like C# in particular, and .NET in general is reinventing the wheel from c++ (maybe now with PI=3.141593) plus a managed environment.
With all the in / out / ref keywords
 
@CaptainGiraffe no, we concluded that C++ is the only language with mutable value types. Most other languages have reference types, which could have a parallel to C++'s move semantics, but C++'s move semantics itself wouldn't make much sense.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Out of the new ones, I prefer witcher to ME to DA. But some people fancy stabbing me in an eye with a fork for this :P
 
@MooingDuck C# has mutable value types, doesn't it? structs?
 
@MooingDuck what would be the difference with a mutable value type and a reference type?
@FredOverflow Yes,.
 
@FredOverflow But move semantics only make sense for non-trivially copyables.
 
6:16 PM
@ScarletAmaranth I don't play a lot of RPGs these days. Most recent ones were Diablo 3 (although I'm reluctant to call that an RPG), Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door and Deus Ex: Human Revolution.
 
@FredOverflow I don't know about C#'s structs, but I'm looking them up
 
@CaptainGiraffe You mean immutable, no? The difference is that those don’t ever need to be copied, the compiler can move automatically
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh, I didn't know you were talking about move semantics.
 
C# structs are always "trivially copyable".
 
@EtiennedeMartel Ooh, the new Deus EX was very decent.
 
6:17 PM
@Cicada what?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes There is no requirement for a struct to be trivially copyable.
 
@CaptainGiraffe In C#? You get no other choice.
 
@ScarletAmaranth Yeah, aside from the ending (which they obviously rushed) and the boss fights (which they actually outsourced to another developer who had no idea what Deus Ex was about), the game was great.
 
@KonradRudolph Ah, this might be our competitor.
@RMartinhoFernandes It can be huge.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah but i power-gamered it, i had no problems with bosses, i used the area of effect explosion kind of thing.
 
6:18 PM
@CaptainGiraffe What can be huge?
 
@EtiennedeMartel I'd hack stuff I had passcodes to and all that just to get XP.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Yes but .NET programming guidelines state that structs should be small, and thus efficiently copyable
 
@RMartinhoFernandes structs? Yes, guidelines are stating small stuff for structs.
 
@ScarletAmaranth I stealthed the whole thing. It was hard.
 
.NET semantics are awesome.
 
6:19 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Yarrrr. I always start stealthy and then i go rambo as i get bored of it :P
 
@CaptainGiraffe Well, if they're huge you get crappy performance. You can't change their copy semantics.
 
@Cicada <Insert something here> semantics are awesome.
 
@EtiennedeMartel if you want a better experience with Human Revolution, check out the "DLC" which is practically stand-alone. the boss fight actually draws on all your strengths and such. it's a much more refined experience IMO
 
You got the pattern right.
 
<Insert something here> ::= "No"
 
6:20 PM
@stdOrgnlDave Yeah, that boss fight was designed in house.
 
The English language semantics are making me understandable!
 
semantically incorrect semantics are awesome
 
Anything is awesome as long as there's semantics in it.
 
@DeadMG Yes
 
@EtiennedeMartel it really makes me wonder why they outsourced boss fights in the game. I mean, WTF? why?
 
6:20 PM
@stdOrgnlDave Did you see the main hubzones ? They obviously had no time :)
@stdOrgnlDave They were pewpew designed.
 
the stupidest thing about Human Revolutin is that the pistol is the best weapon in the game
 
Stupidest ?
 
put the quantum armor tunnel mod on it and you can head shot any enemy except a boss with it
 
Sorry to disturb, anybody knows why they reduced the size of long double to 8 bytes in MSVC2010? And is it ever possible to turn it back to the old 12 bytes?
 
6:21 PM
@KonradRudolph So it all boils down to idioms?
 
It was really the same in the original Deus Ex.
 
and you can silence it
 
@Hossein Is your target x64?
 
@Hossein was it ever 12 bytes? I don' t think it ever was
 
@CaptainGiraffe Yes. .NET is actually pretty strongly dependent on idioms, e.g. concerning side-effects in properties etc
 
6:22 PM
there was a 10-byte long double once upon a time...
 
@Cicada: yes
 
@Hossein x64 long is defined as 8 bytes
 
@ScarletAmaranth I don't remember being able to silence my pistol, make it so it goes thru armor, and kill any enemy in the game instantly with it in the original D:EX....you could?
 
it’s just that most of these idioms are fairly sensible
 
As in the really approachable style of RAII in C++ is replaced by stuff like finally and garbage collection.
 
6:23 PM
@Mooning: My mistake, maybe 10 bytes, dunno exactly
 
@stdOrgnlDave Not quite, yet it was still either one of the very best weapons in the game or the very best one.
 
@ScarletAmaranth I always preferred close-up sniper rifle + seeing through walls. same in D:EX 2
 
@KonradRudolph This is a quite clever discussion that should be blogged on =)
 
@CaptainGiraffe And using. finally isn't in so much need as in Java <7, for example.
 
@Hossein x87 uses 80 bits (10 bytes) internally IIRC
 
6:23 PM
:) Honesty pays
I hope
It is strange. I would downvote this as not-an-answer. But, as the OP you are 'sort of' entitled to bend the rules and alter your own question. Ok then. — sehe 47 secs ago
 
@RMartinhoFernandes no the finally keyword in c++ is useless.
 
@FredOverflow That would be correct afaik.
 
@Cicada: But it's "long double", supposed to wider than "double"
 
Bosses in DXHR were annoying.
 
@Hossein Oh sorry I misread
 
6:24 PM
@FredOverflow: But sizeof(long double) == 8 in VC10
 
@CaptainGiraffe Oh, damn, I think I'm confusing everything and everyone today... I meant finally in C#.
 
maybe you're looking for the type double long long double double long triple factory?
 
I think I'll shut up for a while.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes ok, why so?
 
Because you have using.
 
6:25 PM
factory obfuscated hidden sneaky bollocks static trollic java finally double long long factoryagain ?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes very true, but still idioms.
 
@Hossein So? Every compiler writer can decide for himself (with certain restrictions) how large the fundamental data types are.
 
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
 
@CaptainGiraffe Yeah, totally.
 
@FredOverflow /fp:strict
 
6:25 PM
@stdOrgnlDave: I'd be happy if I could get that big number.
 
@CaptainGiraffe msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/s1ax56ch(v=vs.71).aspx says that a struct can only contain simple built-in types (int,float,etc), and other structs, which implicitly requires it to be trivially copiable, making move semantics unneeded.
 
@Hossein use bignum library
 
@MooingDuck That's like, a misinterpretation.
 
@stdOrgnlDave or use Haskell
 
Obviously.
 
6:26 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I could have misunderstood
 
@RMartinhoFernandes But the finally keyword in C++ is useless. In the sense that all non-existing keywords are really useless.
 
@MooingDuck It's easy to imagine situations where a copy can me cumbersome.
 
@MooingDuck It says that the set of struct types contains all those listed there.
 
I'm not sure if people are dumping on Haskell by being sarcastic about it all the time or really think Haskell is better
 
@FredOverflow: @stdOrgnlDave: Can I get arbitrary precision in C++ in VC?
 
6:27 PM
@Hossein yes, use a bignum library
 
@Hossein With a library like bignum, sure.
 
@MooingDuck But I agree it's a bit misleading.
 
@stdOrgnlDave: IEEE floating point arithmetics are faster than BCDs, wrong?
 
@Hossein What exactly is BCD again? Two digits per byte?
 
@stdOrgnlDave Latter.
 
6:27 PM
@Hossein ...bignum != BCD. and that depends on what you're doing. but if you're saying "IEEE floating point multiply on a modern x86 processor is faster than bignum multiply," then yes.
 
@Hossein Yes, it depends on your hardware. On your Intel sandybridge, it is true.
 
@FredOverflow one digit per 4 bits
 
@FredOverflow binary coded decimal
 
@FredOverflow What floating point type has arbitrary precision in Haskell?
Hmm, maybe Ratio.
 
there's no such thing as arbitrary precision in floating-point
 
6:28 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I didn't realize we were talking about arbitrary floating point types.
 
other than saying "I want my mantissa to be 4000000 bits!"
 
@FredOverflow I've seen that thrown around, but I wasn't keeping up. I could be confused.
Again.
 
@stdOrgnlDave Well theres always your infinite Turing tape =)
 
Is there a standard bignum library then or you're using the term generally?
 
6:29 PM
MPFR is arbitrary precision.
 
@stdOrgnlDave sure there is, just keep it real
 
@Hossein There is nothing like that in the C++ standard.
 
@stdOrgnlDave: I'd love to have that much mantissa :)
@CatPlusPlus: MPFR???
 
if you want to do fast bignum calculation try to reduce it to a way that you can work with symbols. like instead of multiplying 4*pi and storing the result, store 4pi and work with it and only resolve to a final # when you need to
 
@Hossein numeric is quite big IIRC.
 
6:30 PM
@Hossein you still won't represent 0.9 + 0.1 = 1 with 4000000bit mantissa.
 
@stdOrgnlDave Why not? Just use decimal floating point.
 
@Hossein consider using << and >> for fast multiplies and divides.
 
@FredOverflow decimal floating point has the same shortcomings as binary floating point
 
@FredOverflow TIL how to crash a system by using System.Decimal
 
6:31 PM
@stdOrgnlDave Nope. With decimal floating point, 0.9 + 0.1 = 1.0 exactly.
 
@Cicada if you weren't female you'd be on everyone's ignore list in here
@FredOverflow indeed, but what does 1/128 + 1/64 equal in decimal floating pont? HMMMM?
 
@stdOrgnlDave Why? Because sometimes she spouts nonsense? I thought that was what we all did around here.
 
@stdOrgnlDave You've been on mine for a while. I think I'll put you back on it.
 
@stdOrgnlDave Oh there's an ignore list?
 
6:31 PM
@stdOrgnlDave 3/64 exactly
 
@stdOrgnlDave Uh … she isn’t on yours?!
 
@stdOrgnlDave store it as a real fraction/ration instead of a single number, and you don't have that problem.
 
exactly, that's my point. work symbolically :-P
 
@FredOverflow That's rational. Not floating point.
 
Be rational.
 
6:32 PM
wait, I didn't actually type that
about symbolic libraries
 
Every finite binary fraction is also a finite decimal fraction (but not the other way around).
 
@CatPlusPlus I try to get real.
 
Why flagged that?
 
(I didn't)
 
Float is rational :D
 
6:33 PM
@StackedCrooked tru that bro!
 
Wait, at least I think it is...
 
what was even flagged?
 
Also, a female? Why haven't I been notified.
 
@StackedCrooked float is always rational since the mantissa has a maximum value
 
@CatPlusPlus Chat is broken. We should file a bug report on meta.
 
6:33 PM
It was deemed irrelevant, cat.
 
@CatPlusPlus look at gravatar
 
What a flag is anyway?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes s/Why/Who/
 
My gravatar is a cat.
 
j/k
 
6:34 PM
Stop spooning turkeys. Spoon females!
 
@Hossein A symbol of nationalism
 
@stdOrgnlDave So what? It’s a fat old dude probably … after all, “she” is on 4chan ;-)
 
It's really not an accurate measure.
 
@CatPlusPlus Is really "My gravatar is a cat" a bug?
 
@sehe I don't care who. (I actually wrote "who" first, but then I decided to fake a "typo" :P)
 
6:34 PM
@KonradRudolph mmm
 
@KonradRudolph My cover unfolds!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Aha. Makes sense.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes so you're saying a struct can contain a reference to a class as a member? I read several pages of the docs on msdn and got the opposite impression.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Now it's diamonds.
 
6:35 PM
10 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@CaptainGiraffe Oh, damn, I think I'm confusing everything and everyone today... I meant finally in C#.
 
@MooingDuck I'm certain you can. That's how you implement Optional in .NET.
Sorry @Konrad.
 
That reminds me I should watch GoT.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes that was to me I assume?
 
@sehe Thats a bug.
 
Or possibly be learning for the tomorrow test.
I think I'll compromise and go to sleep.
 
6:35 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes As you should be! Just pinging me without reason!
 
@KonradRudolph ping
 
@CatPlusPlus Same here. I’ve missed the last three episodes …
 
Guys, remember me not to ping @Konrad for no reason.
Apparently @Konrad doesn't like it.
 
@KonradRudolph Me too.
 
So I should avoid typing "@Konrad" and type just "Konrad" instead.
 
6:36 PM
@KonradRudolph Oops, I did it again.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes found it: "When a struct contains a reference type as a member, the default constructor of the member must be invoked explicitly, otherwise the member remains unassigned and the struct cannot be used. (This results in compiler error CS0171.)"
 
I should make a note here: "Do not type '@Konrad'".
 
(Well there are actually femanons on 4chan @KonradRudolph)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually, there’s Nullable which is a struct but does not contain a reference …
 
(Either way, I'm not here for the sex so my gender semantics are irrelevant @KonradRudolph)
 
6:37 PM
@Cicada Oh this is going to Meta =)
 
No wait, that's wrong. It should be "Do not type '@Konrad' for no reason".
 
@Cicada You’re only digging yourself deeper here …! Also, I think “femanons” is censored there, no?
 
I'm gonna have to rewatch the SICP series, it's been a while. Here we go:
 
In vim I can escape stuff like that!
 
@KonradRudolph Yes, but I want it for reference types, so I can avoid using null except on boundary code.
 
6:37 PM
A lecture on parenthesis?
 
I love how he starts off by saying that computer science is not a science, and that it's not about computers :)
 
@Cicada Yup, I wasn’t the one bringing that up, it just felt so right dragging 4chan into this ;)
 
Well, except, maybe, that the question title is "Compiling mono as static library". I humbly offer that 'the only solution on windows is dynamic linking' cannot be considered a real answer. Anyways, no need to defend, I defended you in my first comment :) — sehe 6 secs ago
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah, ok. Yes, that works
 
@KonradRudolph Never seen such a censor.
 
6:38 PM
@CatPlusPlus Do parenthesis trump semicolons or the other way around? ;)
^ Note how I ended that question with a semicolon and a parenthesis!
 
Thanks everyone. bye.
 
@FredOverflow Haskell trumps both.
 
@FredOverflow Engineering is not a science? Art is not science?
 
@Cicada Hmm. I must admit I’ve never posted there but I thought it was replaced with the unflattering “cumdumpster” …
 
@FredOverflow You watched the whole thing? Would you recommend it? I started reading the book recently.
 
6:38 PM
Have you tried logarithms?
 
Physics is not about particle accellerators? where have I been?
 
@FredOverflow Syntax error.
 
@StackedCrooked I watched the first 6 videos or something. Lots of times.
 
@FredOverflow Strcture and Interpretation ? Why dat name :) ?
 
Structure and interpretation of computer programs.
 
6:39 PM
@ScarletAmaranth "Structure and Interpretation" means "Syntax and Semantics"
 
It's about Scheme, AFAIR.
Which is about parenthesis.
 
Looks good, I'll take a look :)
 
@KonradRudolph Does not surprise me. Well it depends on the board I suppose? I've never ran into that (well I don't actually use that word either or i'd be obliged to post tits and such)
 
@CatPlusPlus On the surface, it's about Scheme. But it's actually about programming.
 
@ScarletAmaranth Structure and interpretation of algorithms I'm guessing. Sounds like a Knuth guy.
 
6:40 PM
@ScarletAmaranth Because it's about the structure and the interpretation of computer programs.
 
When I see LISP, I turn away.
 
@FredOverflow Oh, Iäve seen pretty much all of this =)
 
@Cicada Ah, it depends on the board? OK, this is basically the edge of my knowledge. The only thing that ever spills over into mainstream media (ok, reddit …) is /b/ …
 
Stop doing that!
 
6:41 PM
Lisp and saliva often come together.
3
 
car and cdr are the dumbest names ever invented.
 
Well, they are machine instructions. Many machine instructions have stupid names.
 
Closely followed by creat.
 
Well, now I'm not sure if POSIX names are worse or sliiightly better.
Vowels? Can't have that, sir.
 
6:43 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes strpbrk
 
INITCOMMONCONTROLSEX is probably in the top 20.
 
@StackedCrooked Open Dildonics?
 
Some parts of WinAPI actually go to ExEx.
 
@StackedCrooked At least it's somewhat descriptive.
 
@StackedCrooked Init common control sex?
 
6:43 PM
@CatPlusPlus orly?
 
expertsexchange?
 
@CatPlusPlus Now go find that sample I linked recently
 
EnumCalendarInfoExEx
 
@FredOverflow To whom is this adressed? (the video)
 
@Mysticial 4chan, ok. But name that again, and I'm flagging it
 
@CaptainGiraffe To whom it concerns
 
@CaptainGiraffe not sure I understand what you're asking.
 
@sehe Heh It's in a classroom. Who is in the classroom
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That's Office, not Windows.
 
@FredOverflow prerequisites?
 
6:45 PM
therapist
 
@CaptainGiraffe Oh, I think it was a lecture to programmers in a company or something. Let me research.
 
Oh, I haven't played with minecarts in DF yet.
 
WTF
how can ZP this week not be Diablo 3?
 
@CaptainGiraffe The concerned
 
@CatPlusPlus So? INITCOMMONCONTROLSEX isn't POSIX.
 
6:46 PM
@DeadMG Because servers are down. Har har.
 
love it or hate it, D3 is the big thing happening in the last two weeks odd in games
 
> These twenty video lectures by Hal Abelson and Gerald Jay Sussman are a complete presentation of the course, given in July 1986 for Hewlett-Packard employees, and professionally produced by Hewlett-Packard Television. The videos have been used extensively in corporate training at Hewlett-Packard and other companies, as well as at several universities and in MIT short courses for industry.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I didn't say it was.
 
@FredOverflow They are interesting for me, but frankly quite useless for my students.
 
I don't care about interesting stuff being useless. That's why I love purely functional programming ;)
 
6:48 PM
@FredOverflow I'm trying to use this condensed, Bjarnes text on c++, into maneagbles on c++ for people not knowing maths nor computers.
 
@FredOverflow uhoh. that's one to keep for out-of-context quoting in any discussion concerning programming paradigms including functional programming
 
@sehe I saved my ass by inserting "purely" in time ;)
 
That's why Haskell is so awesome. It's functional-by-default-but-you-can-do-imperative-stuff-too-if-you-really-need-to.
 
@FredOverflow Mmm. I'll allow it.
 
What languages truly are pure functional btw?
 
6:49 PM
@CaptainGiraffe What exactly is "this condensed, Bjarnes text on c++"? And what is "maneagbles on c++"?
 
omg... this free internet in the hotel is faster than what I get at home...
 
@Cicada the language of th shit. evil edits
 
@Cicada Haskell?
 
@Cicada I don't understand Haskell enough to decide whether it's still purely functional in the presence of Monads.
 
Haskell is purely functional. Non-pure parts are built upon pure core.
 
6:50 PM
meme semantics are awesome.
 
Well, Haskell without unsafePerformIO and friends and ST equivalents and shit.
 
Wat. How can you build unpure stuff over pure stuff?
 
Monads and magic. Mostly magic.
WHEN YOU WRITE HASKELL YOU ARE A WIZARD.
 
Monad, noun: magic.
 
6:51 PM
@CatPlusPlus Even non-monadic Haskell?
 
Haskell is pure. The state is captured as a value that's 'modified' by pure functions just like everything else.
 
That's why we love Scheme. Period :P
 
main is in IO. GHCi is in IO. You can't do non-monandic Haskell. :P
 
@FredOverflow Yes an extremely shoddy worded comment. I'm trying to use B. Stroustrups "Programming in C++" initial chapters as a goal for students (18-19+ kids) not knowing maths nor computers. The textbook will be a gently worded one but I would like the approach to be the one of Bjarnes.
 
It's just that those things that are implicitly the universe's 'state' are separated within the type system using Monads.
 
6:52 PM
Nobody loves Scheme.
 
@CatPlusPlus Me :(
 
@CaptainGiraffe So you are writing a book on learning programming with C++? Cool.
 
@CatPlusPlus May the barbarians invade your personal space.
 
C++ as a first language sucks.
 
@FredOverflow No, I'm teaching students, preparing them for c++11 amongst other things
 
6:53 PM
@ScarletAmaranth You mean like the soccer team?
 
Quirks upon quirks.
 
@StackedCrooked What o_O ?
 
With bonus quirks lurking in quirky shadows.
 
@ScarletAmaranth Rugby if you must.
 
@StackedCrooked I have no idea what youre talking about :)
 
6:54 PM
Never mind then :D
 
@FredOverflow The textbook I'm referring to would be the the required litterature. And that has to be a cheap 4 color print Dietel book.
 
Rugby is a Ruby made by gnomes.
 
Xeo
Yay, I is back with a new Windows installation
 
ftp why u no work
 
You suck.
 
6:55 PM
@CatPlusPlus don't forget the spin quirks
 
@CaptainGiraffe I still don't get. Are you looking for a small book on C++ that we can recommend?
 
@Xeo Windows 8?
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked Nah, Win7
 
oh my, I might finally have time to spare to try out that awesome terrain generation the robot linked me to
 
Xeo
just had to reinstall it because something got fucked up
 
6:56 PM
@Xeo I remember that. Everything ok now? Did a scan?
 
@thecoshman What terrain generation?
 
@FredOverflow No, not at all. At this point I'm asking for your opinion on the value of lisp/scheme for any kind of programming teaching.
 
Xeo
@sehe No scan yet. What prompted me to do the reinstall was that after a reboot, the aero / color scheme were back to default and the network was fudged up again
 
@CatPlusPlus this looks awesome. though the tut is in DX
it's going to be a steep learning curve for me :P
 
@CaptainGiraffe I have been teaching programming for many years now, and I have come to this conclusion: choose the simplest language you can find. Ideally, you should be able to teach the language in 1 or 2 lessons. Then you can focus on teaching programming.
 
Xeo
Does anyone know if DAEMON Tools can be installed on an external HDD and be used just fine on another PC?
 
@Xeo Do. The. Scan :) Don't bother about the old system disk - nuke it. Scan your (restored) documents
 
If you decide to teach programming with C++, don't fall into the trap of trying to teach every mechanism there is in C++. You can teach the basics of programming just fine without virtual and template and what not.
 
Xeo
@sehe The old system disk is already nuked :P
 
@Xeo It installs a driver.
 
6:58 PM
@thecoshman This looks awesome!
 
I don't think you can't xcopy-deploy that.
 
@Cicada I know :D
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Guessed as much
 
@FredOverflow interesting, I do not have the luxury of choosing a language, but I have a clear standpoint.
 

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