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4:00 PM
@RadekdaknokSlupik is it stuck? Because of the dampness?
 
@sehe If I open it, I'll die.
It's nice and cool in my room, but if I open my window hot air will come in from outside.
I dislike that. I'm hot enough.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Diablo 3 called a pure virtual function on my machine once.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik kinky!
 
Uhuh.
[...]
Don't tell me you have AC/Climate control
 
@sehe I wish I had climate control, but I have curtains and a rolgordijn. I keep them closed all day.
 
4:02 PM
No, he uses DC only because harmonic sources are overrated :)
 
pedant
 
Is there climate control for bedrooms? I thought it was only available for cars.
 
Haha. Some guy posted a question in French. Perfect example to close as "too localized"
 
Shh. Don't get enthusiastic. You'll ruin the global energy goals (?) if you install that
@Cicada Not for you, it isn't?
 
4:04 PM
0
Q: [C#]Soucis de DEsérialisation XML

user1413083Bonjour à tous. Je suis en plein bug de cerveau, car cela arrive. J'ai une structure XML, figée et validée. Je dois la désérialiser pour en créer un modèle objet. Pourriez-vous m'aider à trouver le modèle car j'obtiens toujours la même erreur.... Mon fichier XML : <ROWSET> <ROW&g...

@Cicada that one^ ?
 
Precisely
 
@Cicada if the question isn't crappy, translate it to English. Otherwise close it indeed.
But it probably was crappy.
 
English in French is anglophone?
 
I'm translating it.
 
@DeadMG, @KonradRudolph, @MooingDuck: All I'm really trying to say is, if someone asks "When I do A, why does B happen?" we should attempt to answer "because of X" even if we then go on to say "but you shouldn't do A in the first place, do C instead." My opinion.
 
4:06 PM
@Cicada You're too good.
 
Ik begrijp deze vraag niet, want hij is geschreven in het Frans. Kun je hem alsjeblieft vertalen zodat ik hem begrijp en ik je misschien kan helpen? — Radek 'daknok' Slupik 49 secs ago
 
@CatPlusPlus It means english-speaking
Catophone would be cat-speaking
 
@JohnDibling I agree that the answer could have been better, but I still think that it’s objectively correct, and those pointless (heh) pointer-related error questions on SO are irritating, because they are so easily avoidable.
 
I find that extremely funny.
 
So I think that DeadMG is (a) justified in being exasperated, (b) makes SO a better place by discouraging pointer-related questions by beginners on SO
 
4:08 PM
Plus, if someone provides a correct "A happened because of B" but didn't then go on to say "but you should do C instead" I don't think that usually warrants a downvote. Maybe it shouldn't be upvoted (I didn't upvote any of those), but the answer isn't wrong
 
@JohnDibling I agree that a basic knowledge of pointers is useful for advanced C++ programmers, but the OP has already demonstrated that knowledge. What he needs is smart_pointers.
 
@Cicada I thought about it. But waaay too much effort, even though it’s so short
 
@JohnDibling Yes, it is.
 
@Cicada if the OP can’t be assed to ask in English himself, why should we bother?
 
any answer which deals with memory management in C++ which does not recommend using RAII is wrong.
 
4:09 PM
@JohnDibling I agree with that completely, and did not up nor downvote the others either
 
> I'm in the middle of the brain bug, as it happens.
 
@DeadMG That's what the "but you should do C instead" part is about, I think.
 
@DeadMG they aren't wrong, merely incomplete
 
@DeadMG: Ok, well, you're entitled to your opinion, too.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes "Do C instead" is the important, useful part of the answer.
3
 
4:10 PM
I thought you didn't like C.
 
the rest of it is irrelevant because once you do C you no longer have problem B
which makes mentioning B a waste of time and not recommending C a failure
 
@DeadMG he's not arguing that the OP should do B, so much as the OP should understand B.
 
@DeadMG: Learning is never a waste of time.
 
Saving out of context, so we can laugh at it when you stop being so serious.
 
@JohnDibling Counter-example: TVTropes!
 
4:11 PM
@JohnDibling Well, that's just naive.
 
@CatPlusPlus: LOL
 
there are two reasons to learn: for fun, and because it's useful, and manual memory management is neither of those
 
@JohnDibling juanchopanza posted a explanatory answer that mentions smart pointers
 
There. Semantically valid english. Or almost.
 
nor a question without explicitly explaining it for the purpose of fun, it is for the purpose of producing a working program, a purpose directly countered by manual memory management
 
4:12 PM
@Cicada impressive! (What about the title?)
 
@Cicada You forgot the title …
 
Right
 
But the title is crap anyway …
 
Twist: OP won't understand answers, because they'll be in English.
 
I'm back, everyone party
 
4:13 PM
@stdOrgnlDave Remember that thing earlier where I said that learning C-strings was for idiots?
 
@DeadMG quite clearly.
 
Fixed.
inb4 "Hello, please give your answer in French"
 
well, you have a new ally, who also thinks that learning utterly irrelevant rubbish which is the worst possible way to do anything is a valuable waste of time
 
@Cicada We should have the ability to rep people for edits :S
 
who is that?
 
4:14 PM
John Dibling
 
@Cicada Hey, you can't inb4 my inb4.
 
@DeadMG I have no idea who that is
 
Now I'll have to look for a proper post of yours to upvote.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes srsly
 
@Cicada “inb4” o_O
 
4:15 PM
@CatPlusPlus This was so unexpected
 
hey @Cicada you got me looking through glibc source yesterday and I can't see the source of your troubles understanding malloc :-\
 
@stdOrgnlDave Scroll up a few messages
 
@stdOrgnlDave I exaggerate - as always. But I do find the code quite ugly and hard to follow
 
@KonradRudolph The "inb4" semantic construct is unknown to you?
 
4:16 PM
@Cicada No, it just outed you, is all
 
@KonradRudolph wat. no. NOOOOO
 
it looks to me like the OP is trying to delete from the destructor
 
I can't even strikethrough.
 
@stdOrgnlDave Trying to delete anything manually is the problem
 
What's "inb4"?
 
4:17 PM
In before.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It means "I know that this is about to happen but I wish to insert something beforehand"
 
I should have "inb4 what's inb4" because that's worth a lot of points
 
such as "inb4 the close" on a question which is really bad
 
What the hell is "stranglish" by the way?
 
English that strangles you.
 
4:18 PM
Oh. That makes some sense.
 
@EtiennedeMartel according to the first google hit: "what happens to a language when an English speaker married to a Spanish speaker determines to learn SOME Spanish, ANY Spanish, no matter how little natural language ability is knocking around the ol' DNA."
 
10 mins ago, by DeadMG
@RMartinhoFernandes "Do C instead" is the important, useful part of the answer.
 
Who out-of-contexted this?
It's so... wrong now.
 
@Cicada it is full of ugly assembly hacks and you have to ctrl+f all over the place to figure out what it's doing (ever try naming variables useful things glibc programmers!??!?) but I got through it OK
 
4:21 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes o/
 
@DeadMG wait. I know what the issue is. you couldn't even make a strcat() function at all, could you?
 
@Cicada Whoa, awesome!
 
@DeadMG you're jealous
 
@stdOrgnlDave I would not be so horrifically stupid as to code such a function, and I'm pretty sure I could if I wanted to
 
I challenege you to do it within 10 lines with no more than one if-code; or while-code; statement per line. if you can.
 
4:23 PM
@Cicada The images are served from his own (well, someone's) site. He probably uses the Referer header or something like that.
 
I challenge you to write it in Befunge.
 
oh lord, befunge
 
Befunge isn't that nasty.
 
can you even have a string in befunge? starts reading
 
@Cicada My guess (but I cannot find them): cookies on his site, plus a redirect back to SO, and then images that display depending on the cookie’s value
 
4:24 PM
@stdOrgnlDave Yes. " starts a string, " ends it.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah I guess. Still awesome.
 
@KonradRudolph No, no redirect. The images link to his profile page directly, with the peg number in the query part of the URL.
 
Wait, that wouldn’t work with the links
 
It'd be more awesome if it was script injection.
And funny, because he'd get banned.
 
hmmm, actually that looks pretty easy in befunge, on the surface
 
4:25 PM
hmm
iframe?
 
Solved in 19 moves. Suboptimal
Yet prime
 
@stdOrgnlDave Yes, Befunge is easy. Ish.
 
nope
damn, that’s awesome
pity I have to run to get the bus
 
Referrer, not iframe.
You can't have iframes there.
 
@CatPlusPlus Clever!
 
4:25 PM
SO ignores query-strings.
 
2 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@Cicada The images are served from his own (well, someone's) site. He probably uses the Referer header or something like that.
@CatPlusPlus Referer, not Referrer. This is HTTP we're talking about, not English.
 
Well, unknown parts of query strings.
 
@KonradRudolph I read "pity I got run over by a bus."
 
@RMartinhoFernandes No!
 
@Cicada if you study it, the optimial algorithm is actually quite simple.
 
4:26 PM
that was easy
 
It adds one too many '\0'.
 
@Cicada 15 moves is optimal?
 
But not bad for an initial iteration.
 
One cannot have too many \0.
 
@CatPlusPlus What if it buffer is just the right size for one '\0'?
 
4:29 PM
Why are you bitshifting std::cout.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm pretty sure that it does not add one too many \0
but I also don't care, I could trivially find out and fix the problem if I wanted to
 
@Cicada Erm.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes What if we're all conquered by aliens tomorrow.
 
@Cicada because some dude named 'bjarne' thought of this idea called 'streams' and thought that bit shift operators would be a good way of representing them and then overloaded them and then they're really not useful at all.
 
4:30 PM
@DeadMG When *strSource is '\0', the assignment to *strDestination will happen anyway, and only then does the while stop.
 
Gawd, someone posted a question with every line of code in backticks.
 
@stdOrgnlDave did Bjarne invent the streams?
 
Today a guy asked me if I wrote PHP. I said that PHP sucked. I should not have done that.
Stupid fanboys.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes The second sentence is more relevant than the first
 
@MooingDuck you're right the STL guy did
 
4:30 PM
@RadekdaknokSlupik "I better not did that"
 
@MooingDuck The number of moves required to solve a Tower of Hanoi puzzle is 2^n -1, where n is the number of disks
 
@stdOrgnlDave streams weren't in the STL IIRC
 
@MooingDuck y u quote me?
 
f*ck you Alexander Stepanov, streams are stupid. and so is std::string. but the rest of STL is mostly OK
 
@MooingDuck You're right, they weren't
 
4:31 PM
@DeadMG Sorry, I don't understand.
 
"I shouldn't have done that."
 
So yes 15 is optimal
 
@RMartinhoFernandes The point is that the minimal problem in my first iteration is trivially solvable and therefore I essentially succeeded at the task at hand
 
@stdOrgnlDave from the sgi webpage: "This snapshot includes the entire standard C++ library: STL, iostream/locale, and numerics (valarray and complex)."
 
3 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
But not bad for an initial iteration.
Never said otherwise.
 
4:32 PM
@MooingDuck I know, Alexander STepanov did STL, gosh
 
right
so why are we discussing the extra zero?
it's the height of irrelevance
 
@DeadMG buffer overflow
:-P
 
right
welcome to ignore list
 
@DeadMG Because you said there was no extra zero! I can't be wrong on the Internet.
 
You know, if you intend to multiply std::cout, you should be using the * operator, not bitshift. See this question for reference. Just saying.
4
 
4:32 PM
although if you're overflowing a buffer, 0 isn't the worst possible way to do it
 
@DeadMG Who? Me?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes no, Dave
 
Shit's getting real.
 
4:33 PM
user image
5
 
yes, I'm on ignore because the puppy didn't like having something pointed out to him that he didn't know
 
I like curry.
 
I also like curry
 
as far as the 'dumbass' remark, he's the one that said 'your mother was also easy to fuck' or some such so I don't feel too bad about it
 
4:33 PM
I prefer the food variety over the functional rubbish though
 
I prefer uncurry, actually.
 
Who doesn't like curry?
 
@stdOrgnlDave my point being that I don't see any evidence that Alexander Stepanov designed the iostreams either.
 
@MooingDuck alexander stepanov designed like all of STL
 
@MooingDuck He didn't.
 
4:34 PM
Alexander Alexandrovich Stepanov () (born November 16, 1950 in Moscow) is the primary designer and implementer of the C++ Standard Template Library, which he started to develop around 1992 while employed at HP Labs. He had earlier been working for Bell Labs close to Andrew Koenig and tried to convince Bjarne Stroustrup to introduce something like Ada Generics in C++. He is the author (with Paul McJones) of [http://www.elementsofprogramming.com/ Elements of Programming], a book that grew out of a "Foundations of Programming" course that Stepanov taught at Adobe Systems (while employed the...
 
Haskell Curry was relaxed.
 
60
Q: Who architected / designed C++'s IOStreams, and would it still be considered well-designed by today's standards?

stakxFirst off, it may seem that I'm asking for subjective opinions, but that's not what I'm after. I'd love to hear some well-grounded arguments on this topic. In the hope of getting some insight into how a modern streams / serialization framework ought to be designed, I recently got myself a copy...

Also Google is now reading minds, I just searched for "iostreams".
 
@stdOrgnlDave again: streams aren't part of the STL
 
@CatPlusPlus That's a new feature :)
 
@CatPlusPlus I've been trying to find that for several minutes now. :/ good job
 
4:36 PM
@MooingDuck Bow before my superior Google-fu.
 
@MooingDuck they're not part of STL?
 
@stdOrgnlDave nope
 
that's interesting that noone seems to know who did iostreams
 
@stdOrgnlDave they're part of the standard C++ library, but not the STL.
 
maybe it's because the person who did them is too embarrassed to claim credit
 
4:37 PM
Do IOStreams look like they're part of STL?
 
Kinda.
OK, bye yall.
 
Tomorrow I can ask on-topic questions to a future teacher but I don't know any. XD
 
"What did you have for dinner yesterday?"
 
4:38 PM
does anyone here use streams for anything other than strings and, perhaps, serialization? if so, under what context? I can imagine some, but I'd rather use other mechanisms in most of them
@JohnDibling bye
 
"Do you equate knowledge and database imitation?"
"Do you enjoy oral sex?"
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik On-what-topic?
 
"What colour is your toilet?"
 
I'm going to ask why they teach Java and PHP.
 
@stdOrgnlDave Second answer on the linked question claims a list of authors
 
4:39 PM
"Do you enjoy oral sex?" is on-topic if the topic is sex.
 
"What's the password to your account?"
2
"Can I borrow your keys?"
 
"When did you stop beating your wife?"
 
"Why don't you stand on the desk?"
 
@RMartinhoFernandes the cs study.
 
"How about I teach and you listen?"
"Why are you such an ugly fuckface?"
"Still a bad, angry drunk?"
 
4:40 PM
And this is why you have no friends.
:P
 
DeadMG is trying to steal my password :-(
 
you're my fwiend! :(
 
should I flag that?
 
"In for a challenge? If I write a faster web server than you do, I get a diploma immediately, and a thousand dollars. If not, nobody gets anything."
 
Heads, I win, tails, you lose.
 
4:41 PM
"Why do you teach such shitheaps like Java and PHP?"
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik And the answer is... drumroll... "No."
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That website is a liar. There was no drumroll.
 
@DeadMG I have no idea. My PC is on mute.
 
4:42 PM
that website should be click the play button so your flash block will load this, then press the drum, THEN there is a drumroll.com
 
well, for your future consideration, it does a lousy job of being a website which plays a drumroll
 
um
as a native english speaker I'm afraid to go to a website that promises an instant rimshot
is it SFW if you're not a pronstar?
 
@stdOrgnlDave Apperently the origional streams was written by Bjarne, but it was very simple and efficient. But when it was rewritten by Dave Presotto, then again by Jerry Schwartz to handle locales and manipulators.
 
rejoice only in that they managed to use more powerful computers to solve a harder problem than the simpler problems they could solve with less powerful computers beforehand.
 
@CatPlusPlus i would say clearly "no", it's not well-designed, it's ungood. but i know of no general library that is freely available and platform independent. problem is, iostreams are not platform independent in reality: locales, encoding etc. needs platform-specific code to work.
 
@stdOrgnlDave AFAICS, the paper describes an efficient algorithm. I'm sure current computing power helped, but saying that's all seems reducing.
 
What's Hex?
 
hexadecimal
 
4:46 PM
Safari y u segfault.
 
Beside an ant-powered computer.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes did they come up with anything novel?
 
Hex is a strategy board game played on a hexagonal grid, theoretically of any size and several possible shapes, but traditionally as an 11×11 rhombus. Other popular dimensions are 13×13 and 19×19 as a result of the game's relationship to the older game of Go. According to the book A Beautiful Mind, John Nash (one of the game's inventors) advocated 14×14 as the optimal size. History The game was invented by the Danish mathematician Piet Hein, who introduced it in 1942 at the Niels Bohr Institute. It was independently re-invented in 1947 by the mathematician John Nash at Princeton Unive...
 
@RMartinhoFernandes a peek at the abstract just makes it look like they managed to put together some stuff that they couldn't before because their computers weren't good/fast enough to do so before
 
looks like go
 
4:48 PM
@stdOrgnlDave I still think you're being too reducing. The abstract starts with "Using efficient methods that reduce the search space (...)".
 
re that question, i think it is not a good fit to SO's format. it just collects opinions. it should of course be closed
 
@RMartinhoFernandes were you manufactured in canada?
 
How's that relevant?
 
relevant to what? I'm just asking
 
I explained before that I came into existence out of my own volition. I was not manufactured.
 
4:50 PM
62
Q: Who architected / designed C++'s IOStreams, and would it still be considered well-designed by today's standards?

stakxFirst off, it may seem that I'm asking for subjective opinions, but that's not what I'm after. I'd love to hear some well-grounded arguments on this topic. In the hope of getting some insight into how a modern streams / serialization framework ought to be designed, I recently got myself a copy...

^ Needs 4 more close-votes.
 
Metafag.
And 63 more downvotes, right?
 
yes, that's about it
why, am i not being good citizen?
 
I was joking.
 
I don't think it's a subjective question. It can certainly have an objective answer: "It was designed by Person X". Yes, it may have collected non-objective answers. Punish the answers.
If you want to claim that it is not on-topic on SO, I won't disagree, though.
 
@stdOrgnlDave You are joking, right? Stepanov invented neither streams nor std::string.
 
4:53 PM
A question I've bene mulling over for a while, if you were to replace iostreams with something completely new (backwards compatability is not a concern), what would it be like?
@FredOverflow we corrected him on that already
 
@MooingDuck typesafe printf maybe? :)
 
@FredOverflow we've been over this
 
@RMartinhoFernandes "would it be considered well-designed" is very subjective. so is opinion regarding what constitutes "today's [design] standards"
 
@CheersandhthAlf Most of the answers there seem based in fact. The questions asks for facts. The question is clear and complete.
 
the "is well-designed" is not fact, it's just opinion
 
4:54 PM
@CheersandhthAlf Oh disregard that then. I was going by the title. I didn't notice the body actually asked for something other than what was in the title.
 
The streaming itself can stay, IMO. But the underlying architecture has to change.
 
and the question solicits a list of opinions
 
std::streambuf was designed by somebody with a Unix background.
 
@MooingDuck "If you had to judge by today's software engineering standards" under the heading "Thus my question:" says all, don't you think?
 
@CheersandhthAlf Why close? I think it's a legitimate (is that spelled right?) question.
 
4:55 PM
Boost.IOStreams concepts are better than arcane "derive from buffer" and pword and xword and hell knows what else.
Also layering is cool.
 
@FredOverflow i just got religion. i think one must follow SO rules. the question clearly calls for subjective opinion
 
(I know it has nothing to do with this, but it made me think of that)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes going over the paper further, they did some nitfy things. I'll give them that. they also did some extremely obvious things, but that's OK. it's not clear if it's cause for rejoicing until it can be generalized better. I'm not sure how hex can be generalized, I don't know much about it.
 
Transparent compression or encryption. Win.
 
here's about a news item today in norway: a lady from some African country has had to teach her baby to not breast feed, because she's being thrown out of the country (to Italy), because she made the formal error of applying for family reunion from inside norway. well that's forbidden. although she fills all other criteria, the application must be made from some other country.
 
4:58 PM
@CheersandhthAlf wat
 
it takes about 3 years to process such application
 
the concept of streams isn't bad. it's the implementation and the ambiguity contained therein.
 
Immigration policies baffles me sometimes.
 
@CheersandhthAlf What's a "family reunion"?
And why does it need paperwork?
 

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