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2:00 PM
"unupvote"
"reunupvote"
"reunionvote"
"reonionvote"
 
The first non-ununupvote vote was in fact mine
 
why was the question downvoted? I mean, it was kinda dumb, but it was a question.
 
@sehe I thought so. Doesn't really matter much.
I've got reputation to spare, but I'm almost over 10k
 
HAI
CAN HAS STDIO?
I HAS A VAR
IM IN YR LOOP
UP VAR!!1
VISIBLE VAR
IZ VAR BIGGER THAN 10? KTHX
IM OUTTA YR LOOP
KTHXBYE
 
just 1k to go
 
2:05 PM
LOLCODE ¬_¬
 
sbi
@thecoshman And I thought I was unlucky for having to go to a meeting that very moment. (It was declared a standup meeting, so it wouldn't last that long. Then it lasted 35mins. I resent that.)
 
@rubenvb I'll give you a 1040 pt bounty for it.
 
@keithlayne why do I feel this is a trap?
 
oh, that's all my points. Haven't gotten a single one since the day I broke 1k
didn't take me long to get bored of it
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Don't be so vain. You always agree with me anyway.
 
2:07 PM
@rubenvb 'reputation to spare'. Interesting concept. I guess I have about 45856 reputation to spare :)
 
@sbi I hope you grabbed a seat
 
@sbi No, I don't.
 
sbi
@thecoshman In a standup meeting? They'd have killed me.
@RMartinhoFernandes C'mon, you're just being too shy to admit it.
 
wait until after you have that new job in the bag for that
or not
 
@sbi that lasted 35 minutes, you should've killed them
 
sbi
2:09 PM
@keithlayne What are you talking about? Whom are you replying to? Which message does that refer to?
 
I guess that meeting really did suck
 
sbi
@thecoshman Yeah, but then I'd have to do all the work.
 
back on the "reply properly!!!! sigh" thing again.
 
@sbi but no one be around to find problems for you to fix
 
sbi
@keithlayne Well, given that you all had to fuck the mad Irishman, I might have been better off nonetheless.
 
2:11 PM
Wait, what?
 
@sbi hay! how very dare you. I am English!
 
@sbi I was making a special attempt to hit the reply button because I hadn't talked to you in a while, and as soon as I don't do it, you jump on my case. It's demoralizing.
 
sbi
@thecoshman You wish. Here, customers find problems. Of course, they find them before they pay, so there's a lot of pressure on us while the financial dep drums with their fingers on their desks and breathes down our necks, because they want to send those bills.
@keithlayne I am not an "it"!
@thecoshman Yeah, of course, I saw that the moment I looked at your avatar. Oh wait, that was someone else's...
 
they don't fix the gorillas in your zoo?
 
sbi
@keithlayne You Merkins call that "fixing"? Wow. That might rid the world of you guys in a generation or two.
 
2:14 PM
@sbi I think you got your self confused :P
 
again with the pubic wig stuff
 
I've come to the conclusion that Humanity is a very strange race
 
sbi
@thecoshman ...says the guy with the Halloween (wasn't that an Irish custom, BTW?) monster face.
 
@sbi I see, you can embrace capitalism but still harbor the anti-American stuff from the mother(father?)land?
 
sbi
@keithlayne No. It's how Mr. Dubjah referred to you people.
 
2:16 PM
Why is everything speaking in code?
 
I didn't know he was Indian.
 
@sbi erm... is corpse/skeleton face paint... how is that Irish :S
 
I will hit you with a nukular missile for that.
 
Hello!!
 
@sbi My brother and I were just discussing our favorite W. word: "strategery"
@unNaturhal EHLO
 
sbi
2:19 PM
@thecoshman "The word Halloween is first attested in the 16th century and represents a Scottish variant..." So I was slightly off. It's still Gaelic, though.
 
sbi
@keithlayne But you did know whom I was talking about.
 
I have a question about software copyright, could someone tell me if I can ask here I have to find a different place?
 
@sbi of course. I knew who you were talking about.
@unNaturhal some people here don't like it if you ask if you can ask a question
 
@sbi I believe the notion of hallows eve is a pagan thing, so it is as much Germans as it is Irish
 
sbi
2:21 PM
@keithlayne I don't have any unfounded anti-American resentments. I have been living in the US for a while, so it's well-founded. :)
 
@thecoshman because everyone knows pagan is German. Darn I should have kept you on plonk
 
@keithlayne: And where I can ask? Main site seems not adapt..
 
@unNaturhal I'm saying, just ask. After you read the newbie hints.
you mean in this room, or on SO?
 
@sehe huh. As in pagan is not just an Irish thing. A lot of true pagan 'beliefs' underlie most of Europe's culture
 
sbi
@keithlayne Aw, I never know when to use "whom" and when not. You shed most of your grammar, then leave one or two things in there, but with totally arbitrary rules.
 
2:22 PM
boy, so little work to do, I am working on learning whitespace :S
 
@keithlayne Or just read the newbie-hints
 
@sbi 'Whom' for dative and accusative! 'Whose' is genitive, too.
 
@thecoshman Why don't you do something productive instead?
 
@keithlayne: LOL I already red StackOverflow Chat hints
 
sbi
@thecoshman Irish are Gaelic, Germans are Germanic. They might have separated already when they left their villages at the base of the Caucasus. Or they split later. They certainly weren't the same, though.
 
2:23 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes what, learning whitespace isn't?
 
@thecoshman ^^ What he said
 
@luc why is it that you non native speakers are the only ones who know that crap?
 
sbi
@LucDanton Yeah, I know that much. But in that sentence my native language does require Dative!
 
@thecoshman You could start by writing your chat messages in it. Don't worry about 'fixed font' :)
 
@sbi but they are both pagan cultures. And AFAIK both 'celebrated' someting close to Halloween
@sehe ¬_¬ we seem to have formed a feud some how :P
 
2:25 PM
"My ancestors are bigger than yours!"
 
@unNaturhal look to your right, at the top of the list, under the avatars, and find the link for newbie hints that @sehe already gave you
 
@thecoshman I'm just trying to make the best of it :) You want to learn whitespace, everybody happy
 
sbi
> Paganism (from Latin paganus, meaning "country dweller", "rustic") is a blanket term, typically used to refer to non-Abrahamic, indigenous polytheistic religious traditions. — Wikipedia
@thecoshman So that means nothing.
 
@thecoshman I don't see how "you being a douche" translates to "seem to have formed a feud"
2
 
@sbi Your usage was correct I think. Although I think it's accusative in this instance, if we can call it that.
 
2:27 PM
@keithlayne: I just finished to read them
 
@unNaturhal also, don't take me too seriously
 
@keithlayne I don't either to be fair
 
lol...but for the right reason?
 
@keithlayne If it helps I can do the same kind of analysis for my native language. More seriously though, being a non-native speaker means that I try to be careful about this kind of things.
 
sbi
@LucDanton Now I have the (implied) statement of a native speaker that it was wrong, and the statement of a bloody furriner that it was right, although for the wrong reasons. Oh dear.
@keithlayne Because we natively speak languages that employ proper grammars, so we have to know about such things.
 
2:29 PM
@luc That's what I figured. My grammers is pretty good, but we don't really do rigorous study in that stuff in school here.
whom is objective, who is subjective
 
@keithlayne: :P
However, this is the question: If I would develop a game, based on the structure of another one (that has copyright), it's possible to obtain the license to avoid to violate any laws?
 
latin inspired grammar is not "proper grammar"
all languages except German evolved to remove accusative, dative, etc...
 
@sbi Oh that accusative/dative thing was not meant seriously, English doesn't have grammatical cases anymore (notice how it's 'whom' either way). But I thought it'd be familiar to you :)
 
totally wrong words for it, but I know what I mean
 
@unNaturhal not likely. But it's also not likely that you're going to need that license
 
2:31 PM
"My grammers" lol.
 
lol, discussion about English, think I shall sit this one out
 
sbi
@rubenvb What have you been smoking?
 
@jalf What does it means?
 
copyright covers only the specifics. Super Mario is copyrighted, but "a sidescrolling platformer where the main character can jump on monsters to kill them, or jump into a block to earn coins" is not
 
@sbi explain.
 
2:31 PM
So unless you're ripping off the exact details of another game, copyright doesn't apply
 
sbi
@rubenvb No, you explain! Why do you think all languages but German have done away with grammar??
 
None of French, any Scandinavian language, Spanish, English, Italian, Greek have what we call in Dutch "naamvallen"
 
the real question is, how much money do you have and (consequently) how good are your lawyers?
 
as the dearth of e.g. Call of Duty/Gears of War clones exemplifies
 
sbi
@keithlayne Ah, that would make sense. In German, the sentence's object is usually in Accusative. :)
 
2:32 PM
I'm only talking about the dative/accusative and the two other things I don't know the proper English term for.
 
@jalf Yeah, I know this. But for my purpose, I need to copy some mobs (all the mobs), items, characters... ecc. But I'm writing the entire code from 0.
 
@DeadMG Or the 200 tower defense games on the market, or...
 
sbi
@rubenvb Nominative/Genitive?
 
@rubenvb Does it matter? French is one of those languages that got rid of the grammatical cases but in the end the same work is usually needed to properly analyse a sentence. Perhaps you have a beef against declension rather than grammatical case?
 
@jalf Exactly.
 
sbi
2:33 PM
@rubenvb "Noun cases"?
 
I've seen you guys use the terms accusative and dative before and didn't know what they meant...now I don't feel so bad since we don't have those crazy things.
 
@unNaturhal then your best bet is to get a job with the company which has the license, and then rise through the ranks to gain enough influence to say "now we're making this game I thought up"
What you want to do is about as likely as getting the Coca Cola company's permission to use their brand on your drink
 
@luc 'declension' sounds like what you do when you have the runs.
 
in other words, you could probably offer them more money than they'd make in a decade, and they'd still say "no"
 
sbi
@keithlayne Oh, but you do. Only you merged them. But "his ball" is Genitive, whereas "give him the ball" is Dative (in German) or Accusative. It's still there, you just shed 95% of it.
 
2:35 PM
hi
 
@sbi I guess, but the terms also apply to verb conjugations.
 
I'm allergic to grammar
it gives me a headache
 
@jalf you must hate programming.
 
sbi
@rubenvb When I had to learn Russian in school, it had six cases for nouns. And I keep being told Finish has a two-digit number of them.
 
@jalf: Nope jalf. I don't want to use the brands. I want to use a great part of the game structure. At the end I will obtain a game really similar to the one covered by copiright, but with a personal implementation of the gameplay..
 
2:36 PM
@jalf So we should talk to you in lolspeak?
 
sbi
@rubenvb Ah, Ok.
 
@keithlayne Speakers of a language that doesn't have declension usually have a bad time learning a language with one, so perhaps you're not too far off. A bit like English speakers learning languages that have grammatical gender I suppose: a fair bit of (arbitrary) memorisation is needed for both.
 
@unNaturhal You said you wanted to copy the characters. I assumed that meant the identity of the characters: their names, looks and everything
That is not "game structure". It is part of the game's brand
 
@rubenvb Definitively sounds like declension btw.
 
2:37 PM
@jalf: exactly. Names, attacks, picture, ecc...
 
wiki is often better at translation than Google translate.
 
@unNaturhal Yes. Then what I said above applies
just like if you made up your own drink, and called it Coca Cola
You are not allowed to copy specifics like names, logos, characters or such
the question is, why would you want to do that?
 
sbi
Oh, and I just learned that latin has seven cases for nouns. I think that blows a pretty big hole into your theory, @ruben?
 
@jalf: isn't enough if I call it with the same name as the original game?
 
@unNaturhal what do you mean?
 
2:40 PM
@LucDanton I have never understood grammatical gender, it seems totally arbitrary and retarded and gives me the runs.
 
@sbi Some of those have fallen out of use. Even for a dead language. Well really I suppose it depends on what period the Latin is from but I haven't been taught how that really works.
 
@keithlayne And then you switch languages and things switch genders.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Lua script would be fine
 
@unNaturhal there is a simple answer to your problem...just rip it off completely and unashamedly but change everything a little bit. Too easy.
 
@keithlayne It is arbitrary, there's no meaning to be had. In a language like German you can think that every (gendered) noun starts with an arbitrary syllable out of der / die / das and you wouldn't be too far off.
 
2:41 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes aren't the romantic languages at least pretty consistent?
 
@keithlayne Nope.
 
romantic langauges?
... huh ... lol ...?
 
@luc that is a great way to look at it. My brain never processed it like that.
 
@keithlayne sure, it's arbitrary. Danish doesn't have male/female grammatical genders, but has two other ones: common and neuter. They're even more arbitrary. :)
 
@sehe that's what we call them here...
 
2:43 PM
@jalf: That I will call my game with the original name. It will be free2play and will have a shop. I will not pretend to own the rights of the monster, attacks, game-structure, ecc...
 
at least with male/female you can guess which gender applies to a fair number of words
 
The Romance languages (sometimes referred to as Romanic languages, Latin languages or Neo-Latin languages) are a branch of the Indo-European language family, more precisely of the Italic languages subfamily, comprising all the languages that descend from Vulgar Latin, the language of ancient Rome.[M. Paul Lewis, Ethnologue: Languages of the World Sixteenth Edition http://www.ethnologue.com/ethno_docs/distribution.asp?by=size] There are more than 800 million native speakers worldwide, mainly in Europe and the Americas, as well as many smaller regions scattered throughout the world. Becau...
 
sbi
@keithlayne Roman, shirly?
 
no, romance, I messed that up. That's why all the american girls want to learn french.
 
@sbi what theory? German has four. Latin had seven. English, French, Italian, Dutch, etc... all don't have this.
 
2:44 PM
@keithlayne Still surprised. The Dutch 'Romaans' would, as @sbi predicted, still transliterate to 'Roman' in English. I learned something today (- wait, can we trust WP? - oh well)
 
@unNaturhal Why do you think that'd be better? In order to use something, you still need to have the right to use it.
It's not enough to say "I don't pretend to have the rights to use it". if you use it, you need the right to use it
 
@jalf public domain?
 
@rubenvb If it's in the public domain, then you do have teh right to use it
 
sbi
@rubenvb "all languages except German..."
 
a non-exclusive right, but still a right :)
 
2:45 PM
@rubenvb Dutch 'has it' but it is considered archaic and the style guides don't include it anywmore, except for 'frozen' idomatic phrases.
 
@sbi Latin is not a living language. Pedant.
 
likewise, if you made it up and copyrighted it yourself, then you also have the right to use it
 
@sehe That is what we call languages rooted in Latin. WP is right. Always.
 
sbi
10 mins ago, by sbi
@rubenvb When I had to learn Russian in school, it had six cases for nouns. And I keep being told Finish has a two-digit number of them.
 
@keithlayne Thanks for clearing that up. I might doubt WP, but I trust your verdict :)
 
2:46 PM
Russian was invented by aliens obviously.
 
clearly I'm an authority about stuff.
 
ouch... whitespace hurts
 
sbi
@rubenvb I am reasonably sure the same applies to other Slavic languages, too.
 
@rubenvb French has attribut, object, object indirect (those aren't cases) which readily map to nominative, accusative and dative. Different terminology, same analysis. Except there's no declension!
 
@jalf: I mean that I don't pretent to say that I own the right...
 
2:47 PM
@LucDanton Hey, we have those too.
 
@sbi wiki agrees with you. Let me rephrase: most languages except modern greek, slavic and german do not have "grammar cases" by which I probably originally meant "declension".
 
@unNaturhal Doesn't change a thing.
 
Sheesh
 
@LucDanton I (tried to) learn some Turkish back when. They have the deadly combination of vowel harmony and noun chaining. Makes for very long words with ever changing 'extensions' that carry a lot of semantics.
 
"Hey, I'm using this without the right, but I have no intention of saying I do, so it's all ok."
 
2:48 PM
Portugal always struck me as a "me too!" country :)
 
@unNaturhal Yeah? So would it also be ok to steal a car as long as you don't pretend to say that you own it?
 
@jalf: LOL
 
If you use it, you need to have the right to use it. That's what "right" means
 
sbi
@rubenvb And what about Finno-Ugric?
> Finnish is the eponymous member of the Finnic language family and is typologically between fusional and agglutinative languages. It modifies and inflects the forms of nouns, adjectives, pronouns, numerals and verbs, depending on their roles in the sentence. — Wikipedia
 
@jalf Having the right doesn't make it right. You need the right right
 
2:50 PM
@sehe lol
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Are there things that map to genitive or other cases? I'm not sure myself, perhaps locative?
 
@jalf: I know, for this reason I wanna find an agreement with the software house, maybe sharing the earnings of my game
 
I've read that Icelandic is one of the toughest languages to learn for anyone.
 
sbi
I can't help but feel your view onto languages is a bit too simplistic, @ruben.
 
Xeo
In light of questions like this, I'm thinking of writing a utility wrapper around reinterpret_cast that reminds everyone how horrible it is at all times.
template<class T>
void kill(T* p){ delete p; }

template<class To, class From>
To black_magic_witch_ritual_cast(From&& f, std::unique_ptr<Kitten> sacrifice_cage){
  kill(sacrifice_cage.release());
  return reinterpret_cast<To>(std::forward<From>(f));
}
 
2:51 PM
@sbi yes it is, I never studied or was interested in any of that. I admit it, call me ignorant.
 
@unNaturhal Again, not gonna happen. Just like you won't get an agreement with the Coca Cola company to use their name or brand
 
Xeo
@sbi *view ?
 
feud?
 
@LucDanton Sorry, I have no idea what "genitive" or "locative" mean.
 
But why do you need to? why can't you make up your own characters and items?
 
2:52 PM
fewd
 
sbi
@Xeo Jesus, I am getting coshed, here!
2
 
@unNaturhal what kind of game are we talking about? something from the '80s, or a mobile game, or what?
 
@sbi Nice coinage.
 
sbi
@rubenvb That's fine with me, I know next to nothing about it either — but I do know it's complicated. I also know that grammar is not an invention of a few obscure languages, but a basic precondition for communication.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use TMP!". Now they have a template meta-problem... [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
2:55 PM
@jalf: But it would like as say that: "I find a way to improve your drink, but since you own the right of the coca-cola, I wanna find an agreement with you to sell the improved drink." In this way CocaCola will continue to own the copyright, and I'm free to sell my drink, sharing the earnings
 
sbi
Apes in language experiments (when they communicate with signs and symbols) only show very little grasp of the concept of grammar.
 
no, you call it pepsi and make your own fortune
 
@unNaturhal Except the definition of "improve" for games is highly subjective at best
 
@sbi you must be an exception then.
 
if you push out something which isn't popular or buggy, you could do a lot of damage to the original brand
 
sbi
2:56 PM
@rubenvb I am one of a kind. :)
 
@DeadMG And you can't improve Coca-Cola.
 
@unNaturhal In this example things like trademark laws prevent you from 'piggy-backing' on a brand without their authorisation.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes You can make it hella-cheaper.
 
Not so much copyright.
 
@keithlayne: It's a game for mobile console (nintendoDS)
 
2:57 PM
I thought Nintendo was really strict about who it would let release games?
 
@LucDanton: piggy-backing?
 
is a trademark valid over different product types?
 
Xeo
@keithlayne It is.
Unless you have a history of releasing games / console games, your chance is slimmer than slim.
 
@rubenvb: yeah, they have a great busines on this game (action figure, board game and much more)
 
@rubenvb It is valid over similar product types, but not all.
 
Xeo
2:59 PM
And Nintendo is the only corporation that is allowed to burn the games to the game card
 
I read that you have to have a "proper facility", etc and they pretty much deny software shops for no real reason.
 

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