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11:00 AM
@sbi I'm not claiming to make sense. If someone claims that the middle finger is getting all the attention, it must mean the rest of the appearance is... not distracting enough
 
who has tried to work with MySQL socket manually on C/C++ without using special libs ( mysql connector etc ).
 
@sehe your an idiot. she manicures just the middle finger because out of all of them, that is the one finger that gets the most attention.
 
@rubenvb ok, fair enough, that doesn't compare. (That said, links2 in framebuffer mode does ok with mousesupport, AFAIR)
 
ohhh boobs
 
gpm ftw
 
11:01 AM
@user1131997 why... why would you do that to your self?
 
@user1131997 Nobody, because it's a silly, futile exercise.
 
@thecoshman woah - hello, did I say something wrong?
 
I mean, does mysql have open standart for sending stream tcp-packets to work with this db or you there is no way to work with mysql without special libs as connector
 
there is the lib that comes with it...
 
@thecoshman And he does it again. Our primal force chat friend :)
 
sbi
11:02 AM
Sometimes you have to keep your head high and your middle finger higher.
 
MySQL has a wire protocol, yes. No, it's not a standard. No, you don't want to use it directly.
 
sbi
Took me a while to dig that out.
 
and it works with socket files too, does that use TCP?
 
@CatPlusPlus i just want not to use connector
 
@sehe ooh, I see...
 
11:03 AM
@user1131997 Because...?
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion ROTFL! @keith, I think you don't need to write your own rimshot script, @Tony must already have one.
 
@CatPlusPlus becuase it's intersting to work with db-proto manually
 
@sbi You'd need to tweak it: s/sex/sbi/g
 
No, it's not.
 
if by "intersting" you mean "shitty"
 
11:04 AM
It's downright stupid wheel reinventing.
 
Go for it
Learn lots of new things.
Don't tell us
 
sbi
@sehe Not by your standards.
 
@user1131997 why...
 
@sehe Lol.
 
11:05 AM
@sbi Should I flag my message for deletion? I mean, I like lame jokes now and then, but if people find them inflammatory...
 
@sbi wut
 
@sehe no, you where just being an idiot
 
sbi
@sehe Why?
 
he was trolling
I read a very interesting article on trolling on TVTropes
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion How can it be that you appear the very moment someone says "boobs" in here other than by having a script that alarms you?
 
11:06 AM
@sehe if people think they should be deleted, they can flag them them selves, the lazy feckers
@sbi boobs, I like boobs
 
@thecoshman thank you for your personal assessment. I can't say I appreciate it. Anything I can do to stop receiving your valuation?
 
@sbi well, if you're happy living with the illusion that I have such a script, fine by me
 
sbi
@thecoshman Didn't you say you have a girlfriend?
 
hm.... MySQL connector for .NET is managed, maybe there is a way to decompile mysql-connector for .net and look inside
 
@sbi I do... does that mean I can't like boobs? :(
@sehe stop being an idiot :P
 
11:07 AM
@user1131997 Duh. Mysql is freakin' open source, remember
 
bingo
 
sbi
@thecoshman No, it doesn't. But it means you do have access to them — which doesn't seem common in this rooms.
 
@sehe let him decompile ¬_¬ much more fun to :D
 
@sehe no :) has forgotten
 
@thecoshman I've heard you. Thank you.
 
11:08 AM
@sbi I certainly hope no one else has access to my GF's boobs
 
@sehe your welcome :D
 
@thecoshman ?!?!?
 
sbi
I was wondering who this @user guy is you're all referring to, but now I see I have him plonked. Judging from your reactions, it seems you should consider doing the same.
 
my imaginary GF has boobs
 
11:09 AM
@sehe what part do I need to explain?
@TonyTheLion I know, they are very nice
 
sbi
@thecoshman Just you wait until you have a baby...
 
@sbi wow, you plonk people? I'm wondering how I escaped the same fate...
 
@thecoshman how would you know what my imaginary's gf"s boobs look like ?
 
sbi
@keithlayne By not being an asshole? Really, I learned to plonk users in the early 90s. You should try it. It's good for your health.
 
@sbi ¬_¬ I here they get more tempting, but more restricted
 
11:10 AM
@sbi some would strongly disagree
 
@TonyTheLion because where getting it on!
@sbi 'plonk' is that what they used to call it hay?
 
sbi
@thecoshman And you hered that hear?
 
@sbi I'm just too nice
 
I here, you there.
 
@sbi here, hear, her, hair... fuck it
 
11:12 AM
your their innit
 
Let's answer some stupid questions.
 
@thecoshman you might need a break (don't forget heir)
 
Is Dr. Seuss known to the euro folks?
 
@CatPlusPlus why is the sky up?
 
sbi
@thecoshman I can't follow you there. What about plonking and hay?
 
11:12 AM
@keithlayne through references on TV sure
 
@keithlayne known the English and Irish at leat
 
sbi
@thecoshman I'm not going to fuck her hair here, do you hear that?
 
@thecoshman Because ground was first one to get down.
 
@sbi plonking meaning sexing?
@sbi he he he
 
sbi
@thecoshman lmgtfy
 
11:13 AM
lmngtfy
 
Lmftgfy.
 
sbi
A leat (also lete or leet, or millstream) is the name, common in the south and west of England and in Wales, for an artificial watercourse or aqueduct dug into the ground, especially one supplying water to a watermill or its mill pond. Other common uses for leats include delivery of water for mineral washing and concentration, for irrigation, to serve a dye works or other industrial plant, and provision of drinking water to a farm or household or as a catchment cut-off to improve the yield of a reservoir. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, leat is cognate with let in the sense o...
 
@thecoshman plonking is what I'm doing with you right now. And it's something I enjoy, So it's pretty surely not what you want it to suggest
 
You guys with your silly words reminded me of Dr. Seuss, which reminded me I have to get the kids up for school. Thanks...I guess.
 
11:14 AM
@sbi TIL
@sehe oh, I thought we called that a plink
 
@keithlayne Lol.
 
@keithlayne An alarm clock works too :)
 
@keithlayne ¬_¬ they can wait
 
Plonking is mentally ignoring somebody's messages.
Plinking is annoying people with chat notifications.
 
sbi
@thecoshman Yep, @sehe got that wrong.
 
11:15 AM
@CatPlusPlus annoying 'idiots who don't silence it' FTFY
 
@CatPlusPlus nice comeback
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus I agree!
 
Brought to you by Cat Dictionary(TM).
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus I couldn't say it better.
 
@sehe I had already turned off the alarm and gotten distracted by the witty banter.
 
11:16 AM
@CatPlusPlus where can I buy it :D
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus I appreciate that!
 
@thecoshman You can preorder, it's due in 3012.
 
@CatPlusPlus and surely it should be 'cattionary'
 
Too obvious.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus That's a long time to wait.
 
11:17 AM
@sehe I saw that... twas funny :(
@CatPlusPlus lazy cats
 
@sbi me too :) I removed it because (a) some comments were witty (b) I felt like it
 
@sbi I get a funny picture instead, I think I prefer it :D
 
Hello all :)
 
11:20 AM
a hoy hoy!
 
ahoy there matey :D (or however you spell that word)
 
close enough :D
 
sbi
Interesting. The first ever message on this chat was by the Feeds guy. So were the 8 following ones. Then there's a gap where messages must have been deleted. Then Marc moved some messages in the 14th posting.
 
@sbi woah... bored?
 
sbi
@thecoshman Procrastinating. :-o
 
11:25 AM
Want a TVTropes link?
 
@sbi :¬0 I thought you worked hard :P
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm already working. Whistles.
@thecoshman I did indeed. (Yesterday.)
 
@sbi oh I see, you use the "one on, one off" system :P
 
Is writing Pascal programs illegal?
 
@IntermediateHacker no...
but mentioning them is :P
 
11:29 AM
@sbi Yeah, but you can pay me now!
Isn't that beautiful.
Eh, Pascal. Good times.
 
@IntermediateHacker Not yet. Why?
 
well, I just suggested using Pascal for a joint project, and people were all like "You'll get us jailed!" , "Pascal? You mad, bro?"
 
huh... my tv/phone/bb bills seem a lot higher then they should be ¬_¬
@IntermediateHacker sarcasm
 
@IntermediateHacker Erm, it does seem like an odd thing to suggest. Why did you?
 
@sehe well, its the first ever programming language I learned. And I was feeling a bit nostalgic.
 
11:32 AM
@IntermediateHacker yeah... why would you use Pascal?
 
@IntermediateHacker "You work with stupid people" might be the reason.
 
one of the first things I learnt was how to not shit my self, you don't see me raving about it all the time
 
@thecoshman lol.
 
Pascal isn't that bad.
Especially modern dialects.
 
@IntermediateHacker Oh, it was the second language I learned. Forgotten all about it. No nostalgia :)
 
11:34 AM
Out of curiosity, does anyone use Pascal nowadays?
like, is it being used for any active project?
 
probably
people like to cling to what they know
 
I have actually written a business application in Turbo Pascal 6/7 (with Turbo Vision) during highschool. I'd really love to peak at my code from back then, just out of curiosity. Sadly, the lifetime of floppies isn't all that good
 
@sehe that and you would probably vomit at the sight of it :P
 
Here's something I got from a forum:
> You'd be suprised. Not a lot of people know Pascal or COBOL anymore, so people that do make quite a bit of money doing programming in those languages for companies that don't want to change.
seriously, knowing obsolete languages makes you richer? Awesome!
 
you have to pay people a lot to get them to shovel through other peoples shit
 
11:37 AM
@IntermediateHacker Depends on the dialect.
Delphi is still widely used.
 
what about the FreePascal dialect?
 
TP7-era Pascal? Not so much.
FP implements several dialects, AFAIR.
 
woah, this bizarrely specific; "the DataTimetype profile of the ISO 8601standard"
 
@IntermediateHacker "don't want to change" usually means "are trapped because of the huge cost of changing languages"
 
You don't rewrite big projects to new languages, if you know what's good for you.
Hell, any rewrite is project killer.
 
11:40 AM
@CatPlusPlus Is that why the low-level stuff in Windows is still coded in C?
 
Dunno. One of the reasons, maybe.
Depends on what you mean by "low-level stuff"
 
Well, the Kernel, the Driver API etc.
 
Drivers architecture is migrating to C++ with KMDF/UMDF.
 
the windows kernel is written in VB, don't kid yourself
 
@keithlayne seriously?
 
11:42 AM
woah, no.
 
Lol.
There's no point completely rewriting Windows kernel.
 
sbi
Ok, naming stuff is hard, very hard. So here's a question about language for you guys:
Consider a complex system executing tasks. Those tasks can be told to do nothing for a while, and then be told to continue to work. Currently, this is called "pausing"/"resuming".
Now I hack in some code that writes the state of parts of a task not currently in use to the disk and throws those parts out. When they are used, they are swapped back in. We've been talking about this as "suspension", so swapping stuff to disk is called "suspend". But what can I name swapping stuff back in? "Resume" is already taken.
Also, having Pause/Resume and Suspend/Whatever might be terribly confusing for the users and could require painfully detailed documentation and lots of support effort. So can you guys come up with something more snappy, that conveys the meanings of those operations immediately?
 
@IntermediateHacker I think you need to look up sarcasm
 
Suspend/restore.
 
@CatPlusPlus +1 for restore
 
11:48 AM
Or even save/restore.
 
yeah, restore makes sense to me
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus No, saving is wrong. That the thing is saved before throwing it out is opaque to the users.
 
you could always take the engrish appraoch and use "desuspend"
 
@sbi depending on the use cases, job migration comes to mind (OffMigrate, OnMigrate, 'adopt' a job, 'release' a job...) just thinkin alod
 
unload/reload?
 
11:49 AM
Hibernate/restore.
 
Persist/(revive/restore)
 
oh, revive, that is a good word
 
Again , any Qt officianados here ?
 
I think suspend/restore sound best in isolation. But when you also have pause/resume, that might cause some confusion
 
@sehe DAMN YOU!!!
 
11:49 AM
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use TMP!". Now they have a just a TMP problem... [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Mhmm. Ok, here's more details: Those parts that are initialized when they are set up. When restoring them after suspension, they need to be re-initialized.
 
That doesn't have to be reflected in the operation name.
 
@sbi Freeze/Thaw
 
sbi
@jalf That's what I was afraid of.
 
Freeze is nice, too.
 
11:51 AM
@sbi is the flow 'pause' (keep in ram, but stop working on it) 'suspend' (saving to dick disk and free ram) 'restore' (bring back into ram, but don't run), then finally 'resume' (start executing again)
 
Or unload.
Saving to dick, eh.
Words.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus But how does this relate to pause and suspend? If you saw them close together, would you be able to tell which one does what without extensively browsing the docs?
 
How do they work.
 
Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use Tickle Me Pink, Now they have a just a Tickle Me Pink problem.
 
shed stuff, take it back on (what?)
 
11:52 AM
@sbi then unload/reload is the best I can think of
it's fairly explicit about what happens imo
 
@sbi Let's get back a bit for a sec. Do you actually need this to be a separate operation?
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus That's already in use when those parts are really unloaded at task end.
Sigh. Did I mention it's a complex system?
 
Couldn't pause swap to disk?
 
@sbi oh
 
Write to disk/read from disk.
 
sbi
11:53 AM
@jalf No, as I said, loading is already taken.
 
You get transparency and no new name.
 
swapOut and swapIn?
 
ah, shedState and unshedState
 
suspend/restore then.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I hate to say this, but... There's already a SwapToDisk() in there, that does something complete different (swapping data out to make room). :-/
 
11:54 AM
you are sort of mimicking virtual memory aren't you?
 
@sbi ah, we have something like that
ours is called PagedAlloc
 
perhaps you need to just settle for a verbose function name "savePausedStateToDisk()" "loadPausedStateFromDisk()"
 
@sbi Is this some elaborate joke?
 
or jettisonState and takeInState
 
personally, I would rather have a long descriptive function name then a short cryptic one
 
11:55 AM
are you trying to come up with names for the functions or for UI?
 
sbi
@thecoshman In principle yes, but it's much more complicated. (If not suspended, lots of code in those parts will regularly be invoked. I have written the code that skips this when the stuff gets suspended and thrown out.)
@RMartinhoFernandes Ha! I wish.
@jalf It's an API. Users need to override those functions and do the right thing.
 
Good luck with that.
 
@sbi what about "deepPause" and "deepResume"
 
sbi
The API started small, three years ago, and has gained weight ever since. Nobody thought it up in a single act of creation, so it does need constant cleanup. I feel like leaving "pause"/"resume" and "suspend"/whatever in there will cause trouble down the road.
 
cedeState and uncedeState
 
11:58 AM
derp_pause.
 
I don't suppose you can break the existing API?
otherwise, parametrizing pause/resume might be a better approach
 
@CheersandhthAlf what does cede mean
 
say, pause(SuspendToDisk)
 
sbi
@thecoshman Pausing is for the tasks run on those thingummies. Suspending is for the thingummies not currently in use by their task.
 
wakeup?
 
11:59 AM
Adding an argument doesn't necessarily break the API. It will break the ABI and might break subclasses, though.
 
@sbi What about making up words? Suspend/unsuspend.
 
@sbi so... is it just the data that the task uses that is sent to disk
 
I'd go with suspend/restore. If users are supposed to override those functions, they have to read the docs anyway.
 
sbi
@jalf I could, if it's not too sweeping. Adapting thousands of lines of code, but that might be easy with C#'s refactoring capabilities. But there's two solutions. Also, I will have to adapt the docs, too, and that's much more painful.
 
@sbi yeah, avoiding having to change docs would be a big factor for me :P
any way, lunch time :D
 
12:02 PM
then again, if they actually operate on different entities (thingummies vs tasks), perhaps just making the name more explicit would do the trick? suspendThingummy()?
 
sbi
@thecoshman Users using this API to write, erm, modules to be used by those tasks need to store they modules' state on suspend, and restore it when woken up again. I also need to do this will data in the infrastructure for those modules.
@RMartinhoFernandes I thought about that, too, but "pause" vs. "suspend" makes me foresee lots of support issues.
@jalf Oh. Interesting idea.
@thecoshman Having to support users confused by this for years to come is well worth investing lots in code refactoring and doc changes.
 
@sbi long delay (just back from lunch), haven't read all, but Freeze/Restage/Thaw?
 
12:17 PM
don't pause/resume already have enough baggage too?
I've got it: beanify/unbeanify
or even beanify/refry
 
sbi
@sehe Sigh. I just talked to my cow-workers, and they aren't even convinced it's a problem. How naive!
 
why do your coworkers always become cow-workers?
I can't help but think you're working with cows...
 
I've started an Adventurer game in DF. My adventurer is called Catten Basementman.
It was randomised name, I swear.
 
sbi
12:23 PM
@TonyTheLion I currently think the same.
 
I didn't even notice it until I talked to someone.
 
oh :(
 
This game is magic.
"giant leopard Shoveflower the Abyssal Goal"
 
in C#, can you fake template specialization with overloaded extension methods, or will the base class version always be called?
 
And the capital is called "Skunkgleams".
Random names are so wonderful.
 
12:25 PM
I'm pretty sure that's a real city in Poland.
 
"Profession", "— You look like a mighty warrior indeed.", "— I'm a farmer."
 
@keithlayne You can't. I've tried. :) Can you give an example of what you mean though?
 
I'm imagining him with look of disapproval.
 
@keithlayne you can't fake template specialization.
 
12:27 PM
ಠ_ಠ
 
@keithlayne you can employ a visitor pattern with a visitor interface that has separate overloads per accepting type. A little bit more 'work-intensive' but is quite neat and not too slow (if you don't compare static resolution a-la C++)
 
"You punch The White Stork in the third toe, left foot"
 
@sehe I don't know if that would be worth it, but thank you for the idea.
@jalf I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same thing...
Of all the pretty decent things about c#, the generics are disappointing.
 
Does anyone know how to switch off the option in Windows that allows your machine to restart by itself after doing updates?
it's really annoying when my machine reboots without my consent
 
Lol, you can drink blood from the axe.
 
12:34 PM
@TonyTheLion Control Panel > Windows Update?
 
And shoes.
 
what are you chatting about @CatPlusPlus?
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Don't. Encourage. Him.
 
lol
is he drunk or something?
 
12:37 PM
robot man, how have you been?
 
Oh, I don't think I've said hi.
Hi.
 
sbi
Lo.
 
sbi
This guy really is incredibly dense.
 
yes
 
12:42 PM
oh noes, he's on Meta :(
 
I know I am enthusiatic about unfun things.
 
@keithlayne roughly painting:
 
seriously, what do you get for meta-brown-nosing...on meta no less?
 
    public interface IVisitor
    {
        void Accept(NodeType1 n);
        void Accept(NodeType2 n);
        void Accept(NodeType3 n);
        void Accept(NodeType4 n);
    }

    abstract class Node { abstract void Accept(IVisitor v); };

    class NodeType1 : Node { void Accept(IVisitor v) { v.Accept(this); } }
    class NodeType2 : Node { void Accept(IVisitor v) { v.Accept(this); } }
    class NodeType3 : Node { void Accept(IVisitor v) { v.Accept(this); } }
    class NodeType4 : Node { void Accept(IVisitor v) { v.Accept(this); } }
 
sbi
@jalf Oh. Is he removing his comments himself?
 
12:46 PM
tbh
 
sbi
@keithlayne I'm not browsing. It's an old discussion, at an answer to a question that grew out of the discussions around this, and I'm still getting notified when someone replies.
 
i see nothing wrong with what Tom Wijsman 's saying
though I'm only about 1/3 through the thread
ok done
he's completely right
 
@sehe Yeah, I get it, thank you. That's one drawback of that pattern though...if you can't modify the base class, it gets funky. I want to act on the vanilla base class and my subclasses too.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Keep in mind there are a bunch of comments missing now.
 
12:48 PM
@keithlayne Not really. Just replace baseclass by IVisitable and you're golden.
 
@sbi I definitely was not accusing you of any such thing. I was talking about the "SO should not be fun" guy.
@sehe I want to visit the base class that I can't modify
oh wait, extension methods, got it
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes A bunch? He basically deleted his whole half of the discussion except for the last two or three days.
 
Basementman was killed by a Vile Woman. :(
 
@sbi "where's the problem? just call the pause2 and resume2, problem solved"
 
@keithlayne Extension method + the visitor pattern I outline. Done
 
12:50 PM
@CatPlusPlus First quest?
 
I don't think any woman, vile or otherwise, is going to spend any time with a Basementman
 
@keithlayne damn you removing that question :P
 
I was on my way to the quest.
 
@sehe, yeah, I'm dumb, thank you.
 
I found a lair and decided to check it out.
 
12:50 PM
lol
 
a wild monster appears
 
sbi
@thecoshman Yeah, we have that now, only it's not consistently numbered, but inconsistently synonymed. Only those <beep> here don't realize this is gonna hurt them.
Well, where was this job offer I got the other day...
 
I wish I had a job offer.
 
@sbi "same shit, new shirt"
 
No need to talk yourself down, you're smart: you asked for it.
I spent time working this out for myself after abusing `enumerator blocks` (you know, `yield return`) throughout my project. Made things undebuggable
 
sbi
12:51 PM
@keithlayne Oh, getting a job offer is pretty simple. The hard thing is to get a good one.
 
rub it in, old man
 
sbi
@thecoshman No, it was a good offer.
 
is it promising? c++?
 
@sbi there are such things (there is a rage comic picture that would fit this perfectly)
@sbi wait until you start :P
 
sbi
Feb 27 at 20:12, by sbi
Well, it seems I got a very serious and quite tempting job offer today.
 
12:53 PM
i haven't had a job offer in several weeks
 
@sbi was this in response to you applying, or head hunting?
 
sbi
@thecoshman It was in response to having a beer together. :)
 
i think when i get well enough to start in a job, then no more job offers :-(
 
@sbi best kind of offer :P
 
@sehe I'm so new to C#, I'm still fitting extension methods into my brain...I should have made the connection quicker. I'm not used to duck-typing type stuff.
 
12:56 PM
@sbi oh, I missed that. So what happened? Are you still considering it?
 
@keithlayne It isn't actually related to duck typing. That would be dynamic (C# 4).
 
sbi
@thecoshman Actually I got to know the guy at a Scott Meyers seminar, which is a good sign in itself. Also, I got the guy connected with two others (one a former cow-worker and one from SO) who now work there and praise the shop.
 
5 mins ago, by sbi
Well, where was this job offer I got the other day...
 
@keithlayne It is all still strongly bound to Interfaces
 
Alf, I'd hire you, and I don't even know you. If only I had jobs to offer.
 
12:56 PM
@keithlayne actually resembles C++ ADL for free functions, a lot.
 
@sehe hmm
 
@keithlayne thanks!
 
@sbi ah, connections :P
 
but not at compile time?
 
fairly sure if I headed back to England, I would have a decent enough job waiting for me
 
12:57 PM
@keithlayne Well, the extension method part certainly gets resolved at compile time. It's the virtual invocation that could be less performant than in C++
 
I meant duck typing in the sense of messing with classes at runtime, sort of, I lack the vocabulary to discuss these things intelligently sometimes
 
sbi
@jalf What happened? I wrote an application, and started to dig for those references I hadn't touched in a while and which I wanted to attach. Then I went to London for a week. I will have to find those this weekend and send the application next week.
 
I was getting CV help from a (convoluted) relative. He said it was a good CV and that I probably would get hired with them but I was already set on moving over to Ireland
 
@sbi ah, cool. Hope you get it :)
 
@keithlayne I just lack the vocabulary
 
12:58 PM
Sounds like it'd mean a return to C++ then?
 

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