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3:00 PM
@unNaturhal do you have a capitalized software company with your own offices and a history of developing successful games on other platforms?
 
@keithlayne: Are you kidding me? I'm just a student...
 
that's my point. Your question is moot.
moot is a fun word, by the way.
 
Xeo
@unNaturhal Then how come you want to develop an NDS game?
 
@keithlayne I was always perplexed why native speakers sometimes make the typo of using 'mute' instead. The day I looked up its pronunciation is the day I learned there is such a thing as Received Pronunciation.
 
@Xeo: I don't want to develop a nds game. The original is for nds, but I wanna develop mine for PC
 
Xeo
3:02 PM
Ah, that explains my confusion
 
Why on earth do people use strtok in C++?
 
@LucDanton Ok, going from the wikipedia description: our verbs have declensions for the nominative case, and we have some special constructs for accusative and dative. Everything else is done with prepositions.
 
@luc how do you know these things? Are you some kind of cyborg? :) I don't see that word written very often by people who don't know how to use it, but you hear that pronunciation constantly here. I've been corrected for pronouncing it properly before....by "educated" people, no less.
 
@daknok_t because they can.
 
3:03 PM
@unNaturhal well, you can't. If your idea is really good, you might be able to sell it to them. But they are not going to let you use their brand under any circumstances
 
Xeo
@daknok_t "Why on earth do people use C in C++?" FTFY
7
 
Likewise with your game. They are not going to allow you to use their IP, no matter what your idea is
 
I took a "C++" test at a recruiter that had questions about strtok and strcat on it. I was disappointed.
 
I once had a test that had strchr
in it
meh
 
Xeo
@keithlayne I hope you immediately returned the test?
 
3:05 PM
@Xeo because tutorials :P
 
@Xeo Punched the recruiter in the eye and left.
 
@jalf: :/
So, many of the games that I know violate the copyright :/
 
Because it is suck
 
Hey, I'm poor, unemployed, and knew the right answer. don't judge me.
 
@unNaturhal examples are always helpful when such statements are made.
 
3:07 PM
However, I would try to send an email to nintendo. Someone have a mail address?
 
sbi
@keithlayne If you don't want to be judged, you shouldn't come here.
 
Woah, it's past 15.
 
@keithlayne I've read "It's a moot point" a fair number of times on the Internet.
 
@unNaturhal name one :)
 
need some C++ help -- finding all permutations of items inside a vector
 
3:08 PM
Where did the time go?
 
@unNaturhal those douches will probably sue you for even thinking about it.
 
similar to python's itertools.combinations
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually it's 1610, and I need to leave and pick up the kids.
 
next_permutation()
 
Of course, if you're an established and successful company with a proven track record of making profitable games, then you might be able to negotiate a deal with the IP owner to license it for specific games
 
3:09 PM
@JohnSmith std::next_permutation
 
@rubenvb are you trying to steal my answer? I'm trying to get chat rep here.
 
@jalf, @rubenvb: Wait, I have to find it, I don't remember the name
 
permutation?
i'm looking for combinations technically, not permutations
order doesn't matter
 
2 mins ago, by John Smith
need some C++ help -- finding all permutations of items inside a vector
 
errr whooops
sorry, typo on my part
combinations, apologies
e.g. (2,3,4,5) for L=3 = 234 235 245 345
 
3:11 PM
std::next_combination, obviously!
 
@JohnSmith I assume your google-fu is weak: codeguru.com/cpp/cpp/algorithms/combinations/article.php/c5117
 
it is weak indeed
i looked but couldnt find much
 
@JohnSmith Here you are: lmgtfy.com/?q=c%2B%2B+combination
perhaps an extra "s" also helps much.
 
@jalf, @rubenvb: Take for example youtube! It don't own the right on the videos that are on the site, but is still up...
 
@rubenvb how did I not know about that site? It's genius! Now I'll make a site called lmgtfy.org and make it just like that but won't claim I copied it, and everything will be cool.
 
3:15 PM
lol
 
there is plenty of legal coverage there, I would think, all google has to due is have a user agreement and show due diligence regarding copyrighted material.
 
@unNaturhal lots of uploaded content is removed daily. Youtube is an exception, it's too big to pull down immediately. And they have agreements with the orinial authors.
 
ruben: No need to be snarky -- I already looked there
But those algorithms have recursion
Which break for large N
 
so?
then unrecurse the algorithms
 
if I knew how to do all that I wouldn't have asked
 
3:16 PM
unrecurse = curse; un+re=no-op
 
that's why I am asking if there are robust ways to do combinations of vectors
 
@unNaturhal When you upload a video to youtube, you are giving them the right to show the video (if you own them).
 
that's exactly the word I was making up for my reply, @rubenvb. You steal my thunder again.
 
There are also safe harbor provisions that mean that as long as they show due diligence in removing infringing videos when reported they're mostly in the clear. The infringing is on the uploader's part, not Youtube's.
 
@keithlayne I'm quite fast today
 
3:16 PM
So, I'm fu..ed.
 
@luc now you're stealing my answers too? Does everyone have me plonked?
 
@unNaturhal in other words, if your game didn't have the proper rights, it would be removed from all shops and stores immediately, just like a youtube video.
 
@keithlayne Well I did bring new information when I clarified that the infringer is the uploader, so there :p
 
anyone else know?
 
@unNaturhal you need to be realistic. Writing a game with commercial value is rarely a one-man effort.
 
3:18 PM
@rubenvb: Yeah, understoo. But consider that I don't want to sell it in shops. It will be free to play, so the download is free
 
@luc it was implied in my answer...in my head
 
@keithlayne: Of course, I have a team
 
Just make a clone. That's what all the cool kids are doing these days reportedly.
 
doesn't matter
 
3:19 PM
@unNaturhal youtube is free, its content can be equally removed.
 
I do art with a fellow programmer and we make very successful Flash games, two-man team
 
maybe I should have said, "it requires a metric shit-ton of money and people to do something decent"
 
@LucDanton: lol a clone is not illegal? xD
@keithlayne: shit-ton?
 
I don't know where you're from...shit-tonne maybe?
 
@unNaturhal Usually clones don't retain the IP of the original game. They may have the same mechanics, but they don't have the same characters, the same names, the same artwork, etc.
 
3:20 PM
what I was telling you earlier, just rip it off but not exactly.
 
@unNaturhal (1) Youtube doesn't create infringing content, like you want to do, and (2) Youtube takes down infringing content when the rights holders ask them to. And (3) Youtube spends a lot of time and money autodetecting infringing content so they can take it down automatically
 
@unNaturhal I think you should read up on copyright, it's not obvious that what is covered is the mechanical rendition of a work. Not the work itself, nor the ideas in it.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes, @LucDanton: If I don't use the same names, the same attacks, the same picture, the game is not the same...
 
@unNaturhal Yes. What you want to do is not doable without permission. That's it. No loophole. The one thing you can do is a parody.
 
3:22 PM
@jalf: yeah, I know.. it's a wrong example
 
The same game is exactly what you can't make.
 
@keithlayne: I haven't understood:/
 
@unNaturhal if you don't use the same names and other specifics, then you can make your game safely. You just can't use the same names, the same monsters, the same items, the same characters.
 
@jalf: LOL And the result will be a totally different game :P
 
which is safe
 
3:26 PM
That's the point yes.
 
And is not my purpose xD
 
Doesn't matter how much you want it, it's still illegal.
 
@unNaturhal Well, I'm sorry, but we can't change all the copyright laws of the world, no matter how much you want to use someone else's IP without their permission
 
I seem to have been suckered into another long and pointless conversation
 
Mmmmh
I still want to contact nintendo, someone knows how? :P
 
3:29 PM
@unNaturhal www.nintendo.com
 
that was a lot nicer than what I would have said
 
why do you need to use their characters though? Why can't you make your game without them?
 
I think www.nintendo.com only allows GET requests.
In order to contact them you'd need a POST :)
 
I don't think that they will put on the site something like:
"If someone want to develop a copy of our game, please contact using the form below:"
xD
 
@unNaturhal Has it occurred to you that perhaps the reason they don't put that on their site is that they don't want you to develop a copy of their games?
Just guessing, here. I'm sure the thousands and thousands of times they've rejected people with this kind of offers means nothing at all
Nintendo probably just had 8000 bad days in a row, but today they'll love to hear from you
 
3:33 PM
@unNaturhal if you want to copy an existing game, copy Doom3. It's source code has been made public.
 
Don't make @jalf angry. You wouldn't like him when he's angry.
 
@rubenvb But the rest of the game hasn't.
@keithlayne I'm not angry. :)
 
@jalf you mean artwork and the likes?
 
I'm just pointing out that you don't need to dig very deep to find that a lot of people have gotten burned by Nintendo in the past
@rubenvb yep, and the name and all the rest of the copyrighted stuff
which makes it pretty much the opposite of what @unNaturhal wants: He wants to write his own code, but reuse all the copyrighted assets
 
@jalf I can never know when my pop culture references will hit with the euro crowd.
 
3:34 PM
@rubenvb I don't know what license the code is in (being public doesn't necessarily imply the usual open-source rights). But the assets are not available.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes uhu, kind of expected I guess. Why didn't I think of that. Oh I know, time to go home.
 
@keithlayne hmm?
 
Just like they did with the previous Dooms.
 
The Incredible Hulk.
 
I got frustrated. My mother had problems with Windows Mail' silly-messages and silly-statuses so I recommended Thunderbird. The import functionality is now so buggy that it imports only one VCard at a time, and creates a separate new address list for that single address. It boggles the mind. I think programmer must have been drunk.
 
3:35 PM
@keithlayne oh right
 
Mozilla is dead to me.
 
I tried to import CSV instead. TB did not understand UTF-8. It did not understand semicolons instead of commas (as Windows Mail insists on exporting for Norwegian). One had to manually tell it which fields in the file corresponded to what in TB, by moving them up and down with single clicks on an arrow symbol. Then a walk-through with one screen per address in the file. Argh!
 
@jalf: Sorry jalf, I don't wanna make you angry.
I know that you're right, but I don't want to think that there aren't way to do what I need :/
 
@unNaturhal sec, let me dig up a few links for you
and like I said, I'm not angry
 
@CheersandhthAlf Wouldn't it have been easier to just find/replace on the file before trying to import it?
 
3:38 PM
@unNaturhal Make it a parody.
 
@CollinHockey That's what I did
 
vi FTW
 
And you still had to go through that nonsense? That sucks
 
Which doesn't necessarily mean you won't get a hard time from overzealous lawyers, but at least ethically speaking that'd be in the clear.
 
It was a two-try process because Windows Mail of course also had some commas in the field names.
 
3:39 PM
but morally....?
 
Left as an exercise.
 
oooh... I think I've done it. fibonacci in whitespace :D
 
@LucDanton +∞
 
now to find a web base interpretor :D
oh, ideone
 
@LucDanton: Do you play a MMO version of Crash Bandicoot, where the main character is called Crank Bandicooper, instead of eating Apple it eats pear, don't spin around and is black instead of orange? I don't :P
 
3:43 PM
if it's awesome, people will play it.
I don't identify with cartoon characters.
okay, maybe that's not entirely true.
 
You know what? We were kidding, what you want to do is totally legal. You should go for it.
You don't have to tell anyone and not even Nintendo. Tell them at launch day though, they'll want to know how much you've improved their work.
 
@unNaturhal by the way, you still haven't explained why it is so important to be able to use Nintendo's characters, have you? I'm curious. :)
 
@LucDanton: D: Don't be angry man, I'm kidding...
@jalf: Because pokemon are not pokemon without pokemon :/
 
I'm not angry, I'm giving you advice.
 
3:59 PM
Wow, I was going to suggest putting pokemon in Doom 3 earlier. I dropped the ball on that one.
 
@keithlayne That could be construed as fair use if done properly.
 
that seems like a stretch to me
Oh well, I get to go to the veterans' hospital now. I'm officially a disabled vet. Top that.
 
Oh, what happened?
 
I spent the best years of my life having my mind, body, and soul abused by Uncle Sam. That is all.
And for that, my reward is $1K/month tax-free for the rest of my life and shitty care for my service-connected health problems for free. Pretty sweet deal if you ask me.
 
well then, having spent some time working in whitespace, I can say that despite the fact it is so low level, and that choice of characters to write it in is a silly, it is actually quite a nice well rounded language that given enough time, and a decent editor for it, could actually be used... potentially
 
4:05 PM
@thecoshman vim!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes perhaps. Though I think what you need is to write it with three letters, say S T and N and then compile/interpret those
 
that would be cheating
 
@keithlayne to a degree
 
cat stnfile | sed | whitespace
 
I see nothing wrong with having all spaces preceded with the string <string> etc.
 
4:08 PM
@thecoshman That's like saying Ook! and bra*nfuck are the same language!
 
and my god do you need to comment your code :P
@RMartinhoFernandes not looked at Ook!
give me a sec ¬_¬
 
not if you're a real hacker
 
from a VERY quick look, they are similar, though BrainFuck looks too lazy compared to Ook!
 
@thecoshman They're the same.
 
4:11 PM
they have a similar notion of an array of cells, and a pointer to a cell. Ook! is like a RISC version and Brainfuck a CISC version
 
No, they're exactly the same.
Ook. Ook? is >, Ook? Ook. is <, Ook. Ook. is +, Ook! Ook! is -, Ook. Ook!, is ,, Ook! Ook. is ., Ook! Ook? is [ and Ook? Ook! is ].
 
yeah, they are
though I suppose you could just drop the 'Ook' part of the commands, a language with just . ? and ! would produced some fun code :P
 
2 mins ago, by thecoshman
they have a similar notion of an array of cells, and a pointer to a cell. Ook! is like a RISC version and Brainfuck a CISC version
I'm pretty sure that comparison has never been made before
 
Perchance, you could send me a link to this rule saying that once some one has shared a thought, no one is allowed to also come to same conclusion on there own?
 
Just now my daughter was crying inconsolably...then I farted, and now she is laughing uncontrollably. Behold the power of flatulence!
4
 
4:17 PM
@keithlayne that stops working around 7th grade
 
damn you, I can't not lol at that
 
@unNaturhal but why does your game need to be about actual pokemon? Why can't you use your own made-up ones?
 
@MooingDuck You are my Obi-Wan of farting
 
@thecoshman loungecpp.wikidot.com/owners:newbie-hints Right there at the bottom.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes "Once some one has shared a thought, no one is allowed to also come to same conclusion on their own." It's on the internet, it must be true
 
4:19 PM
well then...
 
@MooingDuck I also have two boys...I'm guessing that trick will work with them until they're at least 40.
 
@keithlayne oh yeah
 
> page revision: 20, last edited: 15 Mar 2012, 16:17 GMT+0000 (44 seconds ago)
 
though this looks suspicious to me ¬_¬
this sounds more like a idiom to me...
perhaps further reading will help...
home time for me though :D
 
4:24 PM
Wait, you were playing with whitespace at work?
 
@unNaturhal if you distribute it for free, that gets around several US laws. You can't make any money on it whatsoever. It doesn't get around all US laws, but some.
 
I need to implement collision detection
not terrifically sure WhatTheFuck™ to do
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, isomorphic.
 
hi
talking about sex by any chance?
 
4:36 PM
Erm, no.
 
just checking
 
@TonyTheLion I'm sure that's a problem you know how to rectify
 
@DeadMG well, check edges overlapping, and there's algorithms out there to do collision detection
@DeadMG oh rly
 
@TonyTheLion ATM, I'm going to stick with simple bounding-box collisions and then go down to per-vertex
it's more about the algorithmic complexity
everything I come up with seems to devolve to O(n)
or, more relevantly, I just can't see how it works when intersecting two bounding boxes
a box and a point, sure
but how do you put a range in an octree?
 
@DeadMG Intersecting bounding boxes is just a few (constant) comparisons, no?
 
4:40 PM
@DeadMG instead of worrying too much about that, implement and test it first
 
yeah
it's more about storage
@TonyTheLion Heh. No.
that would be like implementing an O(N!) sort- it's just too slow to be viable
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes. I just can't see how to efficiently store them for lookups.
 
checking bounding boxes is just checking A.x vs B.x y and z, isn't it?
 
an octree works great- for a bunch of points, but I can't see how it can work with ranges
@TonyTheLion The point is not how to compare two bounding boxes, it's how to find the closest bounding boxes in useful time, like log(n)
 
@DeadMG Store them by their center?
 
4:43 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes That's not going to help, I'd have to look in all the adjacent nodes to find boxes which overlap, which kinda defeats the point
 
@DeadMG Can you really avoid that?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes dunno
 
Here is a C++ templated implementation of an octree, maybe that helps?
 
@CheersandhthAlf I used a plugin to do the import back when I migrated. Have been many updates to TB now, though and I don't remember quite which plugin it was. I think it was a silly name like 'more functions for address book' but I can't find it right now
 
Tag boxes that are in more than one octant, and then you only need extra checks for those (and only for at most three octants).
Costs one more test every time, though.
And at least one more byte.
 
4:49 PM
what I'd need is like, a Boost.Bimap, except more like a Boost.Hexmap :P
 
@DeadMG Build your own indices? (Indexes?)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm afraid he was smacked over the head by his boss. I don't think I have him plonked right now and he's eerily silent :)
 
I think I missed the specification of "plonk"
 
Plonk is a Usenet jargon term for adding a particular poster to one's kill file such that the poster's future postings are completely ignored. It was first used in 1989, and by 1994 was a commonly used term on Usenet regarding kill file additions. The word is an example of onomatopoeia, intended to humorously represent the supposed sound of the user hitting the bottom of the kill file (imagining perhaps the kill file as a bucket). It is also sometimes given as an acronym standing for Please Log Off, Net Kook, though this is likely a backronym. Other used expressions are "put lamer on kill...
 
4:53 PM
aha
I thought it was derived from "plinking"
 
When you're plonked, you can't plink.
 
badamtish!
 
@rubenvb “badamtish [bə.dæm.tɪʃ] (adj.): like or characteristic of a badamt; of or relating to a variable named badamt, referring to a count of ‘bad’ items.”
 
yeah
so it's "badumtish", not "badamtish"
 
5:05 PM
fuck libstdc++ binary compatibility. It's a lie.
 
0
Q: Counting Bytes Of Char S

StrangerI have a homework, It is: Write the code of function below, this function should count number of bytes inside of s till it is not '\0'. The function: unsigned len(const char* s); Really I do not know what this homework mean, can anyone write this homework's code please? Further more ...

jaw drop
"can anyone please explain what does "Const char* s" mean? "
 
@DeadMG no, I distinctly remember saying badamtish.
 
“can anyone write this homework's code please?” ← Best part.
 
@rubenvb Hence why I corrected you.
 
This room is full of pedantic assholes.
 
5:10 PM
it's the C++ room
 
It's the Lounge. Relax man.
 
I am relaxed
 
@rubenvb Alternate viewpoint: this room is full of people that need to be corrected.
 
@LucDanton lol. This room is a Turing complete Correctional Machine.
 
as far as I am aware, it is not proven that the human brain is limited by Turing-completeness
 
5:13 PM
@DeadMG But we’re finite though?
Doesn’t that mean we’re by definition non-TC?
 
well, arguably, so is C++
the finite part is called "reality"
 
Not really. new can allocate from a hypothetical pool of infinite memory.
 
yes, but no such pool exists and no implementation has infinite memory
 
@JonPurdy pointers have to be a fixed size though
 
Every implementation of C++ is not (strictly) Turing-complete, because it’s running on a finite-state automaton.
 
5:15 PM
if new could call the factory and technician to install extra RAM, things would get nasty.
 
@MooingDuck Bah, there must be a workaround for that.
 
@JonPurdy Actually, I take that back, sizeof(pointer) has to be fixed, but the range of values need not be (like std::string) Though I'm having trouble figuring if that makes any sense. Probably not.
 
so, considering that it is impossible to build an implementation of C++ that has infinite memory, then C++ cannot have infinite memory.
 
And if not, well, this is a silly topic anyway, so I don’t feel too broken up about it. :P
 
what's the connection between closures, lambda calculus and metaprogramming?
 
5:17 PM
there isn't one?
 
@MooingDuck Sure it does. A pointer could be an index into a pool of variable-length actual pointers, each of which too might point further forward. The chains of pointers would be implicitly dereferenced, so *x would be linear in the number of dereferences, not constant.
Not that *x is necessarily constant-time anyway. :P
But we all sort of pretend it is.
Just like a+b and a*b have the same time complexity. Wink.
 
@JonPurdy you have a fixed number of pointers allowed then
 
Not this again.
Files.
 
@MooingDuck No. Say x is a fixed-size pointer (call it level 0). If x < n0 (for some implementation-defined n0), it is an ordinary pointer. If x >= n0, then x refers to the index of a chain y of a greater size (level 1). If y < n1, stop, otherwise continue.
That’s one (rather bad) way of doing it.
 
@JonPurdy That still has a limited number of pointers.
There are only n0 (or max-n0 or something) chains.
 
5:26 PM
@JonPurdy you don't need levels if it's a delimited list, though theres a speed issue there...
 
Pigeonhole principle etc.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Not if every level has reserved addresses indicating further chains.
Yeah, that.
 
exactly. UTF-8 principle.
They could have made more than 6 code points resemble one character, but they didn't. Same for the pointer chains
 
@rubenvb UTF-8 is a variable length encoding.
A C++ pointer is has a fixed size.
 
UTF-8 code points are 8 bits wide
do you really not see the resemblance?
 
5:28 PM
@rubenvb say what now? no they aren't.
 
@rubenvb I see the difference.
 
Suppose I have a pointer with the special value indicating I have chain. Where do I read up the rest of the chain? What if I have another pointer? Then where do I go?
 
@rubenvb UTF8 code points are 8 to 32 bits
 
ok, then I mean the other thing
 
You are only storing and passing around 2^32 total different values.
You can only refer to the beginning of 2^32 total different chains.
 
5:29 PM
@MooingDuck yet you need 6 bytes en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-8#Invalid_code_points
 
@rubenvb But you need all 6.
You can't recreate a code point from the first code unit.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes yes, they could have added more too.
 
@LucDanton I’m talking about an architecture that would do this transparently. The only value you ever see as a programmer would be a pointer that is either < n0 or >= n0, and you don’t even need to know what n0 is.
 
@rubenvb From your source: "The original specification covered numbers up to 31 bits (the original limit of the Universal Character Set). In November 2003 UTF-8 was restricted by RFC 3629 to end at U+10FFFF, in order to match the constraints of the UTF-16 character encoding. This removed all 5- and 6-byte sequences, and about half of the 4-byte sequences."
 
by using the first bit of each byte as an indicator of the presence of a follow-up byte
 
5:31 PM
@JonPurdy I'm speaking of the implementation, not the usage. How does the implementation associate the start of a chain to the rest?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes you only need 4 now that it's ammended. Your point still stands
 
first byte: 0-127, one code unit, >127, look at next byte. 0-127, two code units, >127 look at next byte, etc...
 
@rubenvb Ok, let's say the highest bit means "chain". How many different pointers is 0x80000001?
 
wait, in a turning machine, can't each "cell" hold all values? So wouldn't sizeof(....) always evaluate to 1?
@rubenvb that's not right at all.
 
@MooingDuck whatever if UTF-8 works differently, the general scheme could work. I gave a bad example. I apologize sincerely.
 
5:32 PM
Answer: only one. It doesn't matter how long the chain that starts at that point it. It's only one chain.
@rubenvb No, it can't work!
 
@rubenvb every byte of € U+20AC is over 127, even the last
@rubenvb oh, then yeah. That scheme works fine.
 
You can only store a fixed amount of bits: sizeof(void*) has a finite value.
If I give you one UTF-8 code unit, there's nothing you can do to get the rest.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes in an infinite Turing machine?
 
arrrgh, I HATE META ASSHOLES
and if any mods are around, note that I didn't say meta police! Aren't you proud?
 
@MooingDuck In C++. You can't change C++ to prove C++ is Turing-complete.
 
5:34 PM
I hate assholes.
 
What you're describing here amounts to infinite compression.
 
> we've been making an effort to make things better--and that takes time and causes frustration--while they have been happily ignoring the matter until they don't like the results
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Hey! I called the pigeonhole principle first.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I thought we were arguing if it was possible to make a conforming C++ implementation for an infinite Turing machine?
 
"us vs them" rhetoric: check; dismissing actual SO contributions, check
 
5:35 PM
@MooingDuck A conforming C++ implementation requires sizeof(void*) to be finite.
 
politics galore!
 
Because SO would be so much better if people didn't waste their time on answers, and just argued on Meta instead
 
FWIW, I argued twice before here that C++ is Turing-complete if given an appropriate reality. I'm just trying to show you that your particular implementation trick doesn't work.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes sure but if each "cell" holds all values, then sizeof(void*) is one. MAX_INT is trickier, but can simply be set to the highest value (+1) actually used in the program.
 
@MooingDuck C++ runs on the C++ abstract machine.
 
5:37 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes what did I overlook this time?
 
@MooingDuck used may not be determinable at compile time
 
@MooingDuck You're changing C++.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes in what way?
@rubenvb didn't think of that. That is a problem :/
 
You want to prove that the C++ abstract machine is as powerful as a universal Turing machine.
You can't prove that by changing the C++ abstract machine.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes that wasn't my conscious intent, but that might be what it reduces down to. I'm thinking about it.
 
5:38 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I think the question was "In what way is it changed here in this instance".
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm definitely trying my best to not change the C++ abstract machine. If I have to, I've already failed at my thought experiment.
 
Oh, in that case, it was changed so that one byte has an infinite number of bits.
 
It's not just INT_MAX, CHAR_BIT is very funny.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes is that not an implimentation detail?
@LucDanton is CHAR_BIT standard C++? I thought it was POSIX
 
5:39 PM
@MooingDuck Yes.
 
@LucDanton ah frick. Yeah, those constants make it impossible I think.
 
Bernoulli is a funny name.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Missing an 'i'!
 
@MooingDuck Files.
 
@jalf Well, why would you spend time answering questions on SO when you can circle jerk on Meta instead?
@LucDanton Not according to Wikipedia.
 
5:42 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes do files present a problem to an infinite Turing machine?
 
Oh, my address bar can recommend Wikipedia redirects apparently. That's exactly not convenient at all.
 
@MooingDuck Files let you implement a scheme similar to the one that was proposed above, that actually works.
Bignums with lots of swap files, and lots of layers of index files on top that.
 
@EtiennedeMartel yeah, think of how much better SO would be if I'd only done that instead
 
Seriously though, great post. I wish I could upvote it more than once.
 
5:57 PM
I dreamt I was trying to delete an array with delete p; and you guys made fun of me :(
 
Yes, CHAR_BIT is in the C++ standard (also the C standard). Yes, you can change C++ in an attempt at proving that it's equivalent to something else. What you have to do is show that the transformation was from a more general model to a more restricted one (in fact, that's the essence of many proofs -- and many mistakes are in the assumption that a change really is from more to less general).
@FredOverflow We would never do that. Crucifixion maybe, but never sarcasm.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes p is not necessarily an array there. And how the hell did you find that so quickly?
 
@FredOverflow TRWTF is using delete.
 

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