@Elyse Contrary to the beliefs of people who been abusing "homophobe" for decades now, "X-phobe" means "has an unreasonable fear of X", not "dislikes X".
@Lalaland I'm not sure if political is the right term here, but I guess it wouldn't surprise me if it was (intentionally, in at least some cases) a veiled attack. There's probably also at least some assumption (or attempt at implying) that the only reason anybody could dislike gays is because of fear (which may be true--I'm not trying to guess about whether it's right or wrong).
@Lalaland More accurately, quite a few people try to use connotational semantics to convince people of points that they might not be able to via denotational semantics.
if you place a nearly arbitrary value on a human fetus, then you gotta wonder why you don't have 15 children
you can claim to place whatever value on it you like, but preventing abortions is far from the most efficient means to produce the highest number of high-quality human babies
@Lalaland More accurately, it depends on the minimum requirements you place on some collection of cells to qualify as a "person". Nearly everybody agrees that killing a person is murder, and should be illegal. So the only real question is the point at which "personhood" is achieved.
I'd say that life is not about survival. Nobody is getting out of it alive. If you can only provide to your kid bare survival (in many cases less than), it's not worth having.
@Lalaland What does and does not qualify as torture for a chicken is going to be a finely detailed matter that's not really suitable for a generic yes or no.
however, farming them for food in as of itself is not wrong.
maybe the kind that's readily identifiable to human beings
but if you ask some people who investigated the matter, they can tell you all about plant stress responses, including stress hormones and other reactions
defining suffering and pain to be only electrical impulses in a central nervous system pretty much directly means "I can identify pain only where I would understand it to be pain for me"
@Puppy even taking your argument at face value, there is a difference between 'I know for sure X suffers' vs 'I don’t know for sure X doesn’t suffer'
I do definitely agree with Puppy that even though pro-life philosophy can be sound, many pro-life people seem to be more focused on controlling women than any moral or ethical issues.
Meat production at the scale we'd need to feed meat to every single human would be completely unsustainable, while having everyone switch to a plant-based diet would lead to much less harm to the environment.
@LucDanton Well, they do suffer. It's just a question as to whether you deem their suffering to meet your standards.
@JerryCoffin Well, not entirely. In the original case, it's only where you can intuitively identify pain, and in the other, it's where rigorous scientific study can identify pain.
@Puppy Oh, nonsense. "reaction to stress" does not equal pain. The question here isn't whether plants react to stress--it's whether that qualifies as pain. Thus far, there's precisely zero evidence that most plants have any way of sensing anything even vaguely analogous to what people (and most animals) experience as "pain". In fact there's a great deal of evidence to the contrary.
@EtiennedeMartel Manure (cow, pig, or whatever) doesn't really change much--the same plant rotting without having been eaten first produces roughly the same amount of Greenshouse gases. Eating/digestion just 1) concentrates a large amount of plant matter into a smaller amount of manure, 2) happens to be the reason a lot of grass, grain, etc., is raised in the first place.
posted on November 30, 2015 by Ramkumar Ramesh - MSFT
In Visual Studio 2015 RTM we announced Edit and Continue (EnC) support for both X86 and X64 C++ in the default Debug Engine with the VC++ 2015 toolset (v140) . Over the past couple months, we’ve been working on improving the experience and supporting...(read more)
@EtiennedeMartel Yes, eating the plants directly instead of having cows (or whatever) concentrate it first would theoretically increase efficiency. In reality, however, quite a bit of what's fed to cattle (and pigs, chickens, etc.) either isn't digestible by people at all, or tastes/smells nasty enough the people wouldn't eat it even if they theoretically could. Many of the plants needed for direct human consumption are much pickier about where they live as well.
@EtiennedeMartel "A steak" varies anywhere from around 6 ounces to 48 ounces or more. How can all of these be twice the amount of meat I should eat per day?
@EtiennedeMartel Good point. I found a restaurant here that serves Poutine, but I haven't had a chance to try their take on what Poutine should be yet.