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16:00
@nick because it's a piece of shit that's why
stop asking stupid questions
@nick lol
> FreeBSD maintains a complete operating system, i.e. the project delivers kernel, device drivers, userland utilities and documentation
cool
so
@milleniumbug and nothing there IIRC is under fucking GPL
there aren't any nvidia drivers
16:02
> Now, FreeBSD has low-latency sound mixing with per-application volume controls and full support for the OSS 4 APIs out of the box
FreeBSD is virtually non-existent on desktops
@nick there are Intel and AMD ones.
what do freebsds peeps use for a DE
It's primarily a server/appliance OS
@BartekBanachewicz meh
16:03
@Prismatic whatever? You can run flux, gnome, kde...
@nick I agree that it could be a problem for developing graphical apps
“How does one patch KDE2 under FreeBSD?” (Russian: «Как пропатчить KDE2 под FreeBSD?», tr. «Kak propatčitʹ KDE2 pod FreeBSD?», [ˈkak prɐˈpat͡ʃitʲ ka dɛ ɛ ˈdva pɐt fri bi ɛs ˈdi]) is an internet meme in Russian Internet culture. The question was originally posted on the #anime channel of the RusNet IRC network on May 8, 2004. Its text can be translated as follows: -- Hello, is this an anime channel? -- Yes. -- How do I patch KDE2 under FreeBSD? The phrase was meant to satirize the disproportionate amount of technical “geeky” conversations often occurring on that channel, having nothing to do with...
Though if I wanted to go with more Unixy thing for servers I'd go with OpenSolaris/Illumos
It has zones that can execute Linux binaries
@BartekBanachewicz fair enough, but I'm sure the proprietary drivers have some sort of licensing
@CatPlusPlus so does FreeBSD
16:06
which would defeat the purpose of FreeBSD
@nick I don't mind that. MIT/BSD licensing is way more sane than GPL bullshit anyway
@nick not really. Nobody said that it's supposed to only run free software.
@milleniumbug heh
I need to install FreeBSD on my desktop proper and give it a go WRT drivers
@BartekBanachewicz Are you sure? I don't think gnome and KDE work with freebsd oob
dont they both rely on systemd
@Prismatic I think that reasonable install guides exist
I don't really care that much about the graphics shell anyway
I would be fine with xMonad
> Step1. Install systemd
16:09
How does one sacrifice a goat
actually gonna install xMonad now
By slitting its throat usually
savage
New packages to be INSTALLED:
        hs-xmonad: 0.11.1
        hs-mtl: 2.2.1
wut
I wonder if those are hackage/cabal packages
or whether they bundle haskell packages under OS management
I wouldn't mind if systemd got replaced by something else
16:15
@BartekBanachewicz if you want to install a new OS why not install NodeOS
lol
Who needs that
Who wants that
Cat don't you get it
NodeOS is the future
> node-os is the first operating system powered by npm
And last
All the RaspberryPi-like SoCs will use NodeOS for the IoT
16:16
everything will be connected
I for one welcome our new JS overlords
@CatPlusPlus One is too many.
Real talk though I like the idea of opening up terminal and using something that isn't bash. Like, there's something nice about JS being used for OS level scripting imo
You can do that
What does "OS level scripting" even mean
I want to die. My life is over.
@Prismatic OMG THATS A THING I DONT EVEN
16:19
Scripting is a dumb term
If you want something that's not a bash for your shell then just change your shell to something that's not bash
@CatPlusPlus I meant it as a term for "doing shit I normally make bash scripts for"
Nothing's stopping you
inb4 nodebash
You don't need a whole new OS for that
nash
Well they're just a Linux distro aren't they?
16:20
@CatPlusPlus It's something that linux/JS etc 'programmers' do. They cannot cope with anything that is not a text file.
@Prismatic bow down
@Prismatic yeah, except unusable
@nick Praise Brendan Eich, hallowed be his name
@milleniumbug I haven't tried it but it says npm for packages and node.js instead of bash. Why does that strike you as 'unusable'
@Prismatic exactly what it says
@Prismatic god bless that man
16:22
Oh someone shoot me. I want to be cremated and my ashes scattered from the overhead section of the M6 near Wednesbury.
> Wednesbury
Is that a day or a place? So confusing
why would I want stringly-typed shell to be replaced with something that's just as weakly typed
@MartinJames I thought you said cremated and not buryed :)
Personal preference? I find JS to actually be readable compared to bash
~~stringly typed~~
16:24
~~stringly~~
it's not even typed
I mean yeah, that's a lame reason but it is a reason
@Prismatic It's a place, near the M5/M6 junction. I want to rest in peace there after I'm dead since I have spend so much of my life there, stationary.
Statically typed shell would be very fun to use
@CatPlusPlus I'll stringle you to death m8
@MartinJames Those road names sound like London
16:25
@Prismatic Nope - just north of Birmingham.
When I was doing mapping stuff I used to test out maps of london in my map rendering lib... what a rats nest of roads.
@Prismatic Yes, many 'old' cities are like that.
The roads look so organic from far up, almost like vasculature
@Prismatic Of course, US citizens cannot understand the traffic problems of 'old' cities because they don't have any.
@MartinJames yep, its pretty much just grids in the US
16:27
100km is far in europe
100 years is old in the US
All US cities were built from pre-pack.
@Prismatic holy fucking
@BartekBanachewicz anal for jesus?
@Prismatic except bad
16:28
"On your way home, pick us up a Boston from IKEA"
@Prismatic I really, really hoped for it to be a sad joke
@sehe The Onion being serious here.
@BartekBanachewicz No, just sad:((
I would install it if I had virtual box installed
@Prismatic what cat said, you can use a js shell on any os just fine
you don't need a retarded linux distro that has node in the name to do that
besides, I've just installed ZSH and it's pretty cool
@sehe lol
@EtiennedeMartel right. Instant discredit, IYAM
@sehe quote was from here
The newest episode of CSI: Cyber is hilariously bad.
@BartekBanachewicz Hey baby
Can you win 1 match on HS?
@orlp Awesome. :D
@Jefery what'd you mean?
I have a challenge that asks me to watch some friend win :(
@TonyTheLion This is normal
16:50
@TonyTheLion Except that the whole house falls down
I'm already in
0
Q: Converting a unicode (with BOM) string to ASCII std::string

DeanI have a unicode string (a series of bytes) with an initial BOM (it usually is UTF-16 little-endian) and I need to convert this to an ASCII std::string. I tried using this solution but it didn't work on visual studio 2015. How can I convert that series of bytes? Target system would be Windows.

oh my
sounds like a lulzy question
std string is just a series of bytes
@Prismatic no, a series of chars
std string is badness
@orlp What's the difference?
17:04
no difference
I think I like the GSL's string view more than I like Boost's
char is a badlet
it should be byte
@Prismatic some people are pedantic assholes, and some are not
Isn't a char always a byte
because Boost replicates the awful, awful interface mistakes of string
17:05
@orlp you can expect that in this room
@Prismatic that ironically depends on your definition of a byte
Unless you're talking about some obscure architecture where a byte is not always 8 bits
in fact, if you don't expect it here, you probably shouldn't be here
we are the masters of pedantry
@Prismatic In C++, chars are bytes then, too. :3
wiggles fingers
@orlp I wonder if any of these people has ever actually read the bible at all. It doesn't say premarital sex is wrong or a sin at all. What it really says is that if you find that a boy and a girl have had consensual sex and neither is engaged to anybody else, they're supposed to get married. It's only a problem if one of them is engaged (or married, of course) to somebody else, or it was rape.
17:07
floof and woof /cc @TonyTheLion @Borgleader @ScottW
@TonyTheLion I'm not sure I agree. A char is a data type. A byte is an amount of storage. Though as it happens, the amount of storage occupied by a char is always one byte (at least in C and C++).
@JerryCoffin the naming of char is confusing though
@jaggedSpire floof and cannibal D:
cause char can lead a newbie to believe it should store characters, which isn't necessarily the case
I fell in this trap
17:10
@orlp I resent that remark. I'm not a pedantic asshole. I'm just an ordinary asshole.
:) you're like the nicest person in the Lounge
@JerryCoffin I believe that video is mainly directed at the irrationalism and hypocrisy in bible belt culture.
regardless of what the bible actually says
The more important point to bring up: Is it pronounced 'car' or 'CHar' (as the CH in chair)
like "character" but without "acter"
'care'
17:12
@Prismatic 'char' is best pronounced as tsdzjahrr
debatable
char is pronounced as "your mum"
@TonyTheLion why did your mum say her name was 'mmmhhppf'
17:13
@Prismatic Properly speaking, neither. It's properly pronounced like "care".
@TonyTheLion if your language considers characters a thing, it's bad
what do you mean?
Ell
Ell
@milleniumbug why?
> if your language considers characters a thing
where wouldn't they be a thing?
the real question
17:15
it's not specific enough if you care about unicode, it's not abstract enough if you don't
cache: 'kaysj' or 'cash'
your mum :P
@milleniumbug what
if you index a python string, you get a string
@milleniumbug it's strings all the way down
17:16
@TonyTheLion Python has no dedicated character type
Plus 'character' is ill-defined
Languages that only have characters, ie where each unit of the writing system is just its own separate self contained glyph are the best. Simplest to deal with and think about
In computer and machine-based telecommunications terminology, a character is a unit of information that roughly corresponds to a grapheme, grapheme-like unit, or symbol, such as in an alphabet or syllabary in the written form of a natural language. Examples of characters include letters, numerical digits, common punctuation marks (such as "." or "-"), and whitespace. The concept also includes control characters, which do not correspond to symbols in a particular natural language, but rather to other bits of information used to process text in one or more languages. Examples of control characters...
graphmeme
17:17
this is what Wikipedia thinks Character means
Yeah "roughly corresponds to <3 things>" is why
> a character is a unit of information that roughly corresponds to a grapheme, grapheme-like unit, or symbol, such as in an alphabet or syllabary in the written form of a natural language.
@TonyTheLion I love it when definitions include 'roughly'
its vague
especially when that definition includes your mum and 'roughly'
17:17
@TonyTheLion Yes
That's only because there are complex languages out there where the word 'character' is insufficient in describing single units of their writing system
@Prismatic And then you get combining marks and left-to-right overrides
Ell
Ell
I suppose you could say "unicode character"
WHY WE NO HAVE GOOD DEFINITION OF CHARACTER????!
17:18
Because people and cultures and they ruin everything
@Ell No, the word 'character' is specifically ambiguous wrt unicode
@Ell code point, or a code unit, depends on what you want
@Ell Which means... nothing specific still
but without people there wouldn't be characters either :P
You say that like it'd be a bad thing
17:19
@TonyTheLion We do. A character is a person in a play, opera, or movie.
Ell
Ell
@milleniumbug oh tony you are a character
user1804599
@Ell please don't
Are there languages even simpler than english (in terms of the writing system)?
user1804599
@TonyTheLion hence avoid it
Ell
Ell
17:20
why is "unicode character" ambiguous?
> The character identified by a Unicode code point is an abstract entity, such as “latin capital letter” or “bengali digit five”.
this is abstract but not ambiguous, right?
user1804599
Prefer to write "abstract character" explicitly.
I dont think unicode has an actual strict definition for 'character'
user1804599
"character" raises too much confusion.
yes very confusing
@Ell combining marks and left-to-right override are also characters by this definition
17:21
It means a bunch or a single code point, or a code unit, depending where you're looking at at the moment
Ell
Ell
@milleniumbug right
so its context sensitive
So imprecise terms are more or less useless
You'll be qualifying it with more words than when you'd just use a precise one that means what you want to say
@Prismatic brainfuck
Has anyone used Vera++ recently? Just downloaded the Windows installer, and Symantec was concerned enough that it quarantined it immediately.
17:25
Shitmantec
Downloaded directly from their Bitbucket project
user406009
@ElimGarak It's always like that in CSI shows.
Use NOD32, try again
user406009
Supposedly it is actually causing real issues in juries.
haha, yeah. company laptop...
user406009
17:26
People start expecting CSI magic in cases.
@orlp Undoubtedly correct--and the religious schools I was sent to said the same crap. But by third grade I'd already started to notice something wrong when teachers told us the Greek myths were just stories ignorant people made up to explain a world they didn't understand, which was completely different from the revealed truth of the Bible.
@JerryCoffin wait
... waiting
oh nevermind, misread
@JerryCoffin how can you say this with a straight face though?
@orlp I never say anything with a straight face. But what are you talking about?
17:29
@JerryCoffin not you, your teachers
@orlp Oh, how did they say it with a straight face? I dunno--some were undoubtedly true believers. Others were undoubtedly just arrogant assholes. Most were probably both.
Ah, finally found what I was looking for (see, I can multitask too). From the IAQ:
19.26: How do you pronounce ``char''?

Like the first word of ``char *''. The accent is generally on the first syllable.
@JerryCoffin I believe it's orthogonal to true belief.
Even if you truly believe every word of the bible as truth, you have no reason to not be aware that this is still faith: an assumption without proof.
17:35
I can understand if you, as a core assumption of your model of the world, assume that everything the bible says is true. I can not respect/understand the idea that your assumptions are the only correct one, and everyone else is ignorant.
when will it end
I have no issue with religious beliefs, I do have an issue with people claiming a monopoly on the truth.
@orlp Claiming a monopoly on the truth is pretty close to the definition of religion.
4
The part of the Bible that ruined the suspension of disbelief for me was God being out-of-character between the two Testaments
17:40
@JerryCoffin How can faith truly be faith if you disregard the possibility of being wrong?
@Prismatic <3
@orlp Isn't faith by definition ignoring the possibility of things being wrong
ie, 'take it on good faith that ...'
@orlp I honestly don't much care--and I doubt they did either.
@Prismatic Faith is an acting under an assumption you know you can't prove yet believe to be true.
But if you deny that you're assuming anything you're not being faithful.
user406009
The important question is whether faith is defined as belief in opposition to evidence or as belief even in the absence of evidence.
user406009
17:45
Some religious people certainly use the first definition. See Creationism, etc, etc.
@Lalaland Creationism is a rationalisation of a belief, not a belief in of itself.
There's this famous part of the bible
where god asks to kill this dude's own son
that's faith
you assume that something is true, despite having no proof, but you are aware that's an assumption
Thaaaaat's politics
@orlp I think that's the difference between faith and religion! You can have faith in a lot of things
you just assume that when you kill your own son it will be a net positive, because god said so
user406009
17:48
@orlp What if we already had evidence that god wasn't nice?
if god asks you to let go of an apple in your hand, and it will fall to the ground, then that's not faith
because there is no hidden assumption, you just know that is what happens when you let go of an apple
@Lalaland what is 'nice'?
the total sum of endorphin molecules released in the human population?
@orlp By faith that the rules of gravity haven't changed, that is.
@milleniumbug Except for the part where he wasn't...
@orlp And then you explode
if an explosion happens in a forest, but no one is there to hear/see it
does anyone care?
Squirrels, probably
user1804599
user406009
@orlp "nice" as in acting in the best interests of the father (forget his name)
@Lalaland so that god would be nice if he mind controlled all women around the father to pleasure him in all ways he desires
k

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