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7:01 PM
I actually think you are just trying to find some better solution to programming, and while functional programming almost seems like one, you fear the chance that it might not be and that you are back to square one.
 
I dunno about that.
 
And that's what you make you so "passionate" about it.
 
You know, I am pretty ok with C++ and imperative programming already
 
I might be wrong though.
 
I bet at least one guy in this room works for CIA
 
7:02 PM
it's not like I would be left w/o anything if FP disappeared tomorrow
 
You would be left with not much progress into finding this almost silver bullet solution you are trying to get to.
 
@ProblemSlover get over it
 
This generally also makes you frustrated and makes you feel like programming is not what you want to do for the rest of your life.
 
Even though sometimes you certainly enjoy it as it reminds you of those times where perfection didn't matter; it only matter to see something that you have built.
 
7:05 PM
I know next to nothing about Pokemon.
Somewhat surprised by how big it is.
 
But deep down you think there's something that we are all missing.
 
@thecoshman Np. but I just think about their wages and feeling sorry for them.
 
Anyway
SUSHIIIII
BBL
 
@thecoshman Software Engineer III gets paid there a bit more than librarian(CIA library)
 
@StackedCrooked What.
 
7:10 PM
@StackedCrooked You must be 30+ year old then :P
 
@ProblemSlover wtf?
shut up
 
@thecoshman Told you, dude's off his center.
 
plonk
 
@ProblemSlover Am Not A Lawyer/Are Not A Lawyer
@ProblemSlover Don't expose who it is. I'll have to ban you if you keep talking about that
 
user1804599
7:19 PM
boost::intrusive_ptr is really awesome.
 
footage has leaked of @ell on a night out
 
user1804599
ITT Ell drinks vomit.
 
shit i haven't pushed to turnip in a month
 
@thecoshman Oh god
 
I haven't turned into a push-up for longer
 
7:24 PM
Zeal is awesome
 
@StackedCrooked Me neither. Never seens even one thing. I wouldn't be able to tell ninja turtles from pokemon. Or teenage mutants, Or transformers, likely.
Ponies are recognizable enough, not that I've ever seen anything beyond what gets perpetuated in the lounge/twitter
 
so erm... how does black friday work in america? Like... people seem to just charge into shops, and fight over stuff. How are they paying? do they fight all the way through to checkout, and then be all civil? Why do they even try to pay when it's that crazy? Are the deals really that good?
 
YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND
 
user1804599
@Ven ^ now I can write my interpreter in C++!
 
user1804599
7:32 PM
The next step is supporting concurrent mutators.
 
inb4 elyse drops almost finished project, and tries to rewrite it in Scala, Haskell or Go
 
user1804599
Maybe I should allow some way to provide custom "root providers", so that the overhead of intrusive pointers is reduced for the interpreter implementation, while decoupling call stacks from the GC.
 
damn I should update my compiler
 
@thecoshman 2 parts reb, no chew, 1 part mecca, but the m got cribbed
 
chewrebacca
 
7:41 PM
@thecoshman I'd imagine they do it online nowadays
 
@ElimGarak I'll smuggle you one
 
user1804599
Wait, does intrusive_ptr not set the pointer to nullptr in its destructor?
 
why would it? accessing it after destruction is gonna be UB
 
user1804599
Ugh, it doesn't.
 
7:46 PM
@ProblemSlover lol bro how much do you make?
 
Modular piece of shit
 
@nick He makes peanuts that his mom brings home from work.
 
user1804599
There's a bug in my GC.
 
user1804599
> objects: 3; roots: 0
 
7:47 PM
> However, the mayor of the Molenbeek district of Brussels, notorious for harboring jihadists, believes it was not her responsibility to follow up on the information, according to a report by the New York Times.
 
@ElimGarak probably 50k and he thinks hes the shit
 
Aiding and abetting, furthering terrorism, easy life sentence. On US soil, she'd probably be on her way to ADX Florence.
 
@Elyse Totally unexpected!
> >US
> >soil
The US of A is made out of solid concrete
 
Soiled pants
 
@ElimGarak and in Belgium nothing will happen
 
user1804599
7:49 PM
Ah, found it. :)
 
user1804599
for (auto& object : objects) {
    if (!reachable_objects.count(object.first)) {
        reachable_objects.erase(object.first);
    }
}
 
user1804599
Spot the bug.
 
user1804599
lol, after fixing it, I get a floating point exception
 
user1804599
I don't use floats in my program.
 
7:50 PM
@Elyse division by 0
 
Doesn't mean your program doesn't
 
user1804599
Oh, the error is in the hash function.
 
Man, for every good thing Modo does, it does at least one bad. I'll stick with ZModeler for the single object + subobject style of management.
Ugh, this is the second delivery this month that fell through until Monday. God, I am starting to hate Fridays and love Mondays.
 
7:57 PM
<3
 
<3
 
Also, fuck Mass Effect developers and their 45° field of view.
 
@ElimGarak Lol GTA V first person.
 
I literally can't see shit.
 
Ell
@thecoshman heh I'd star that if I wasn't on Mobile
 
7:59 PM
What you up to Ell?
 
    Could not deduce (m ~ (->) Closure)
    from the context (Control.Monad.State.Class.MonadState
                        Eval.Types.Context m,
                      Control.Applicative.Applicative m,
                      MonadError String m)
      bound by the type signature for
                 execStmt :: (Control.Monad.State.Class.MonadState
                                Eval.Types.Context m,
                              Control.Applicative.Applicative m, MonadError String m) =>
                             AST.Stmt -> Closure -> m Bubble
right
 
@TonyTheLion drinking vomit
 
ewwwww
 
I'll play as a bitch this time around. Badass bish. Lesbian badass bish.
 
I want Pizza
 
user1804599
8:02 PM
get rekt pizza
 
so it took me a month to get it to compile
worked first time.
I am nearly crying.
 
> it
 
@sehe implementation of closures in Turnip (my lua interpreter)
 
ah
 
it's really, really amazing. I kind of expected that, but I'm still surprised that this approach actually works
like, Haskell actually does what it promises to do, and that's not a small promise.
 
@BartekBanachewicz what does it promise, grandpa, tell us! tell us!
 
@TonyTheLion ooooold
 
woof woof puppy!
 
@sehe huge refactorings that are pretty much painless
I had to do a lot of changes to introduce closures
 
8:13 PM
@thecoshman hahahaha
 
ok. exactly how are refactorings easier than, say, C# with resharper?
 
@sehe my static invariants are stricter
 
resharper is slow as shit :(
 
for c++? Yeah
 
no, for C#
 
8:14 PM
I mean resharper is amazing, don't get me wrong
 
we basically had to universally drop using R# because it's just so slow
 
it makes a huge difference
 
@Puppy huh. That's odd. That's prolly something the project
 
haskell wins on a different front
 
it has great features but they just take so long
 
8:15 PM
 
well, now I need more tests
 
@BartekBanachewicz I thought so. I think that front would not allow me to be quicker. It would probably allow me to enjoy non-compiling code for a long long long long long time. And then (ifff I ever emerge from the fog) work
@Puppy Not for me. And trust me I've used them across some pretty large-ass solutions. IDGI
 
@sehe the premise is that it's better to work with compilation errors than runtime errors, no?
 
@sehe which versions?
 
The idea of refactoring, for me, is non-breakage
 
8:17 PM
well, technically, nothing breaks if your code doesn't compile
 
@Puppy 8, vs2013
 
@sehe We used 8 in 2012 and it was (mostly) fine
 
@BartekBanachewicz It also bars any continuous integration/testing?
 
it's VS2015 and the associated v9 requirement that really broke it
 
8:17 PM
@Puppy Did they fuck up then
@Puppy uhoh. That doesn't sound great. Are you on SSD?
 
@sehe why? it just means you won't get into runtime testing if you can prove earlier that the program is ill-formed
 
I still have to upgrade to vs2015. Well, actually I don't have to do jack shit until someone forces me to use VS again :)
 
it's strictly always faster to fail at build than build and fail at tests
whenever this makes you fix the problem faster is debatable
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm afraid the time between green bars will be humongeous for me. Trust me, I know how compiletime diagnostics work. I prefer green bars
 
so you'd rather rely on runtime testing even if that means relaxing static invariants to make it compile sooner?
 
8:20 PM
I never said that
 
I'm trying to get the essence of what you're trying to convey.
 
maybe, if the alternative is wall of C++ compiler errors
 
I have CI for that project. It runs my tests.
 
12 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
so it took me a month to get it to compile
that part
 
well, I didn't really work on it. You might blame the discouraging wall of errors if you wish.
it was a month of real-world time.
 
8:21 PM
If a refactoring takes a month, that's a rewrite or a redesign. And I'd hate if it renders my code immobile for a week
 
@sehe I don't think so, but my colleagues all just got brand new SSDs and they're all disabling it as well
 
@sehe if it takes a month of 8-hour days, sure.
 
@BartekBanachewicz The walls are what I meant with "Trust me, I know what compile time diags work like"
@BartekBanachewicz how many hours, roughly?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Sometimes, yes.
 
@sehe about 15-20 for that feature I think.
 
8:22 PM
Can you describe the essential refactorings achieved in this time frame?
 
there's no point losing features X, Y, and Z just because feature W is broken, especially if you're still introducing it rather than it being a maintained part of your product that your customers are depending on
 
@sehe I introduced a different, more complex way of name lookup in all evaluation and execution routines that looks into additional parameter (the closure)
 
and secondly, runtime tests can give better diagnostics - not certainly, but they can do
 
@BartekBanachewicz sounds reasonable
 
I haven't moved the closure to the execution monad yet though
that's my plan for now
@sehe all that to run function f(x) return x end; return f(6) :)
uncaught exception: PatternMatchFail (Eval\Lib.hs:(14,3)-(40,29): Non-exhaustive patterns in function lua43
oops.
 
8:28 PM
Exactly like my binary variant visitors, really :)
 
I need better diagnostics :S
 
Howdy :)
 
Howdy :) :)
 
Howdy :) :) :)
 
Howdy :) :) :) :)
 
8:33 PM
who's howdy
 
flowey the flower
 
Wow!
 
Ell
@tony sorry for the delay, I'm just pre-ing :)
 
@Ell pre-ing?
 
Beer time is good time.
 
8:36 PM
@Morwenn oh yes, nice idea :)
@TonyTheLion drinking cheap nasty shite so he can 'get drunk faster'
 
@thecoshman Well, it's past beer time here, but I would be up for a second round.
 
oh my
I haven't any beer :(
 
kids today, huh
you have a shop too close to complain about that :P
 
@TonyTheLion Come here, come here :D
 
@thecoshman true
 
8:37 PM
fuck :\ it's too cold for cold beer
well... not too cold
 
@Morwenn :) :D
 
@thecoshman Never too cold for cold beer.
 
@thecoshman Pff
Poor excuse
 
It is cold
heating is expensive
 
Today, I did some Javascript.
 
8:39 PM
¬_¬ fucking stupid site. I had to manually put in the forward slashes in the date
what sort of savage they take me for?
 
Eh~, one of the comments to my latest question on Code Review just makes me feel like « wow, I'm so dumb » ><
 
ergh, fucking shitty understaffed driving centres
 
"Don’t Hug Me I’m Scared" is actually scary.
 
not till the 9th I can get a booking to get my actual licence sorted
Incense is nice, it really takes away that musky cat smell
(and has nothing to do with covering my own smell)
 
jesuz take a shower :P
 
8:43 PM
@thecoshman If you have to mention it, it probably does! :D
Well, he looks like a dead pirate. Some smell is expected.
 
> function f(x) function g() return x end return g() end
[Nil]
> return f(3)
[Number 3.0]
:3
 
@TonyTheLion I will do, later, to warm up :\
I feel almost insulted that my ANAL is only rated as 2 stars
 
@thecoshman It lacks context to be truly funny.
 
@Morwenn does that matter?
 
@thecoshman too much shit
 
8:46 PM
@Morwenn oh, I had 'rock fort' for dinner again :D
 
@thecoshman Some things feel like they have been pulled ou of their context and that's funny.
 
... and I might go back to finish it off
 
@thecoshman From a starboard point of view, yours only looks random or starbaity :/
 
@TonyTheLion I'd always wash out first
@Morwenn you look random and starbaity!
 
@thecoshman I am.
Starbait me harder!
 
8:48 PM
@Morwenn All night bby
 
@Borgleader C'mon man :o
 
I would generally say I don't like Five Finger Death Punch... but Jekyll and Hyde is damn catchy :D
 
@Morwenn more like C'min man
 
FFDP <3 <3
 
8:49 PM
@Morwenn repost
 
@thecoshman Very catchy
 
@thecoshman It's the first time I post this one :(
 
@TonyTheLion it certainly helps when doing the washing up :P
 
@thecoshman hahaha
 
@thecoshman I only know their remix of House of The Rising Sun. But it's not even close to the Land of Champions remix :p
 
8:52 PM
Oh hey, btw, I have two tickets for Cradle Of Filth in Dublin way out in March 13th. If anyone fancies it, they can help me make use of them. Fair warning, I might not be in Ireland any more then, but I'd probably travel to Dublin for the gig. Hostels are cheap enough, like ~€15
@Morwenn o_0
 
@thecoshman I can even.
 
@Morwenn I like the video :P
@Morwenn ?
Just to be clear, if you can find yourself in the city that night, you can have a ticket to the gig
 
@Morwenn Cannot process. Response ambiguous.
 

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