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3:00 PM
@Elyse Oh what the actual
 
@Elyse sweet
 
@Elyse The remaining bit is taken off as a tax for the French government.
 
ergh... testing things that take like ten minutes to find out if it worked or not is tedious
 
@thecoshman What'chu testin'?
 
@набиячлэвэлиь source control migration
 
3:07 PM
@thecoshman wergh sounds like suck
 
it's most the tedium of having to wait for it to fail in some new way that sucks
 
Ell
aw feckin shit
I ordered sd instead of microsd
 
@Ell use a space compressor adapter
 
@Ell lol
 
it bends spacetime such that the SD fits in microsd
 
Ell
3:16 PM
Oh amazon has instant refund, nice
 
(ou pas) https://t.co/KiTvwQZtSe
 
Why don't you just get one in a shop.
SD cards are everywhere (in all sizes).
 
my god
 
Actually, I almost only see microSD ones sold with the adapters.
 
3:17 PM
@Ell lol
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes Shops are overpriced IME
 
the ratio of quality questions to all questions is so low
 
Ell
also I don't know of any electronics shops nearby besides phone shops
 
even low for SO standards
 
@orlp Well, that's a first
 
3:18 PM
nice tune
@EtiennedeMartel lol
 
user1804599
@Mr.kbok XD
 
Ell
Someone convince me not to buy this amazon.co.uk/gp/product/…
 
@Ell you will use it exactly once
 
Ven
@Ell plus it's the Ultra Very Super Hyper Extra Edition
 
3:22 PM
Buy it, I fucking dare you
 
Ell
@orlp nah I make pasta quite not infrequently
 
@Ell Imagine the horrible accidents that could happen with this device.
 
Ell
if that makes sense. I make pasta every now and again
 
@StackedCrooked please, I can only get so erect
 
@Ell y u double negation
 
3:23 PM
lol wrong person
 
@Ell make pasta as in "make dough and slice it up and let it dry and boil it" or as in "boil it"
 
Ell
@orlp as in make dough and slice it up and boil it
Why bother waiting for it to dry?
 
@Ell well, dry is a relative word
 
user1804599
@Ell A heavy duty stainless steel professional fresh pasta lasagne spaghetti tagliatelle maker machine cutter with 3 cut press blade settings with table top clamp kitchen set violates SRP.
 
3:25 PM
you have to let it rest for at least an hour IIRC
 
[Explicit(Reminder.ToDo)] is nice
 
Ell
@Elyse ahaha
@orlp I don't leave it that long
and it's still p yummy
I guess YMMV
 
ITT programming principles applied to real life
 
1
Q: Factory of factories?

q126yI have concrete factory classes which implement MyFactory interface. I want to get concrete factory objects based on parameter. How to do this? One way is to create factory of factories[FoF], and FoF would be parameterized factory. Is there any more elegant way to do this? This is purely in...

 
3:26 PM
I'm asexual, AMA
 
@Jefery wanna bang?
 
@Jefery exactly as dumb as real life principles applied to programming :/
"WORLD IS A MUTABLE STATE HENCE OBJECTS"
 
Turns out the world is actually a series of immutable states in time
 
make your programs as stateless as possible
 
check mate imperative programmers
 
3:27 PM
@StackedCrooked what makes you horny?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Make your children.
 
only use OOP in specialized components that absolutely need to be stateful and hide their state under a polymorphic interface
 
@thecoshman your mom
 
otherwise use pure/monadic FP
 
whats a monad
 
3:27 PM
@orlp wun sum fuk
 
@BartekBanachewicz ok
 
Only use Barket in specialized moments that absolutely need an FP extremist.
 
@Jefery ayy <preferred pronoun>
 
@orlp ayy ASSAULT HELICOPTER
 
Haskell Akbar
 
3:28 PM
@набиячлэвэлиь right, not saying "use OOP everywhere" makes you an FP extremist
 
@Prismatic a monoid over endofunctors
 
user1804599
One side-effect a day keeps the Haskell fanboy away.
 
@BartekBanachewicz You said the exact opposite of that, TYVM
@Elyse ++itr;
 
@набиячлэвэлиь I said "only use OOP when you need to"
 
user1804599
3:29 PM
And also causes lots of bugs.
 
@Elyse :D
 
FP code is easier to test and more powerful if contexts other than state are involved
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well its crystal clear when you put it like that
 
@Prismatic eggsactly
 
3:30 PM
@Prismatic it's an interface for chainable effectful computations
 
erectful computation
 
that doesn't mean "impure" mind you
 
user1804599
Side-effects are terrible.
 
@Elyse I disagree
 
3:31 PM
I actually think zoidberg is more extremist than bartek in many topics
 
controlled side-effects in narrow contexts are very useful
 
@BartekBanachewicz well done on finding exceptions
 
side-effects are terrible when their scope and interactions are unclear
 
user1804599
Side-effects are unconditionally bad.
 
let me control your side-effects bby
 
user1804599
3:32 PM
Real programmers program without side-effects.
 
lol
 
@Elyse do you write all of your stateful functions using signatures ending on a -> a?
 
@Jefery it's the extremism that's a problem, it's the rigidity of applying the rules
 
Real programmers are from Spain
ayy
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz what's a stateful function?
 
3:33 PM
Real spaghetti code programmers are from Italy
Wait
 
Ell
@StackedCrooked meh
 
@Elyse essentially something that when applied is isomorphic to a -> a
 
You guys really like "morph"isms
 
user1804599
@Jefery At a neighborhood Italian restaurant Rasmus Lerdorf realizes that his plate of spaghetti is an excellent model for understanding the World Wide Web and that web applications should mimic their medium. On the back of his napkin he designs Programmable Hyperlinked Pasta (PHP). PHP documentation remains on that napkin to this day.
4
 
@Jefery they're kinda useful
 
3:34 PM
void Function {
   static bool c = true;
   if(c) { /* stuff */ c = false; }
}
is that a stateful function
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz this actually makes sense to me now :V
 
did I win something
 
@Elyse I remember that one
 
@Ell :)
@Prismatic no. This is a closure.
 
It's from someone else
@Prismatic Very much
 
3:35 PM
@Prismatic [c=true]() mutable { if(c) { /* stuff */ c = false; }
Did mutable-decl go there?
 
Xeo
ye
 
isomorphism between a -> a and State a () is really something that took me a while to understand
but once you do understand, it all gets so easy
 
same with a -> b and Reader a b
 
3:37 PM
Let me find one fucking non-standard thing
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz id? (+ 1)?
 
@Jefery don't confuse confrontational/non-conformist with extremist
 
Zoidberg is both confrontation and extremist
 
@Elyse Yes. Typically used to manipulate the running state of your application, if any is present.
 
@Jefery "morph"ons
@Jefery disagree
 
user1804599
3:39 PM
I don't see why such functions would need to have side-effects.
 
user1804599
They just transform their inputs.
 
@Elyse they are effects if you consider your application state to be their context
 
@sehe "morph"offs
 
user1804599
That's not my definition of "effect".
 
what is it, then?
 
3:39 PM
inb4 distinction between function and procedure
 
Everything is stateless in a wider scope
 
For me effects are inherently bound to contexts.
 
The universe is stateless
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz The taking place of an action that can be observed through means other than inspecting the return value of the function call.
 
@Elyse how does it conflict my idea?
 
3:41 PM
\o/ my pet German has gone home for the w/e, no more work:) Time to get Stolid.
 
it's only a relative matter of what's "inside" and what's "outside"
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz An expression like f x in Haskell doesn't have effects that can be observed other than by inspecting its value.
 
Hey bartek, I'm appreciating monad stacks more. I think.
Maybe.
 
@Elyse do { f x }
 
user1804599
Monad stacks are overrated.
 
3:42 PM
@Jefery I wrote a thing for my team leader recently
 
Ven
@Elyse effects don't keep the order
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz do { f x } is in all ways identical to f x.
 
class (Applicative b, Applicative m, Monad b, Monad m) => MonadBase b m | m -> b where
 
user1804599
It doesn't even require a Monad instance. :D
 
3:42 PM
lol
 
@Elyse No, it has do { at the beginning and ` }` at the end
 
Ven
@Jefery Monad wasn't always a superclass of Applicative
 
@Ven old days
 
I know
 
@BartekBanachewicz Four times 10? What am I missing?
 
3:44 PM
So with MonadBase you can do the same that liftIO does, just for every monad in the stack?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The signatures for a,b,c and d differing?
 
@BartekBanachewicz a is not used.
 
Ell
> Supported Resolution: 480x320 pixels
agh
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes does it matter?
oh wait
you mean there are 3 things and 4 times 10 printed?
welp
 
@BartekBanachewicz Right.
 
3:46 PM
actually. Fuck.
@Jefery TMCs.
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol
 
MonadIO is a faux-TMC definining liftIO
but e.g. MonadState is a "real" TMC defining get and put
you could imagine MonadFauxState defining liftState
it gets really powerful once you have your own newtyped transformers in the stack though
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah I uh
adding return () at the end prevents it
 
not sure why what happens happens
 
Does adding main signature hide it?
Oh wait.
Maybe runhaskell always prints the result of main.
 
3:49 PM
Couldn't match type `()' with `Int'
    When using functional dependencies to combine
      MonadState s (StateT s m),
        arising from the dependency `m -> s'
        in the instance declaration in `Control.Monad.State.Class'
      MonadState Int (StateT () IO),
        arising from a use of `d' at main.cpp:28:16
    In the first argument of `execStateT', namely `d'
    In a stmt of a 'do' block: execStateT d 10
@R.MartinhoFernandes bingo
main :: IO Int
dunno why though, execState should be ()
execStateT :: Monad m => StateT s m a -> s -> m s oh ok
nevermind
 
Yeah, try main = return 10
 
@BartekBanachewicz Enough with this fucking TMC acronym
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yea
@Jefery Why? Do I really need to write "TRANSFORMER MONAD CLASS" every time?
I think it's pretty clear.
 
Yeah "every" time
You have used it like 4 other times in 4 years
 
I've noticed I use it a lot and it's much more convenient to type TMC
 
3:52 PM
It's not like you have to use it every time
 
fuck else should I write
that's what I mean
it's precise and expresses my intent
 
Not to mention that if you search for it you don't find what it means
Don't invent acronyms
 
yeah how the fuck do you think acronyms are created
w/e I'm going to keep using that
 
By more than 1 person using for something that is repeated by many people many times
 
write a sticky note if you can't remember what it means
 
3:54 PM
Fucking hell
You and your motherfucking acronyms
 
OTOH IANAL LOL
 
boost::variant makes intellisense blow up. any ideas?
 
@Mr.kbok don't use boost
 
is not using C++ an option
 
3:56 PM
here's a tree of solutions:
- don't use boost
- don't use C++
- switch job
pick your favorite granularity
there might be a fourth solution: just die
 
classic lounge
 
@Mr.kbok ..and so, boost::variant joins the long list of stuff..
 
but that's only for hardcore guyz
 
any small problem with a language and "fuck off, use something else", "why are you even using that language lol"
C++ is not devil incarnate
C is
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz tranny monclass
transmonclifier
 
3:58 PM
@Jefery Well, no. Intellisense has that spot locked up.
 
@Jefery Kids these days, eh?
 
@Jefery no not at all
it's just pretty shit that's all\
 

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