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21:00
Pfft. Don't you see.
They're just really invested on government transparency
Sorry for just stumbling in. Good evening everyone!
@StackedCrooked easy as pie. And convert all params to a context object of cours
@πάνταῥεῖ I consider a two-stage chat post process
@StackedCrooked In that case, just generate c++ source.
@sehe Yeah, that wasn't nice ... I've been trying to correct afterwards :-P
21:03
no probs. just the inevitable quip
@πάνταῥεῖ I'd say no.
going to bed, good night guys
sleep well
user1804599
bye Marco Polo
21:07
@Cinch Why? Because you'd fail for it?
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Pablo Picasso.
@πάνταῥεῖ No because I like Stack Overflow lighter.
As in, there is less to hold us down.
The problem is a lack of a mechanism for preventing low-quality questions.
^ What do you mean by lighter actually? Being a chit chat forum or what?
"Low-quality" being poorly researched, low testability, and vague wording.
@πάνταῥεῖ No, as in the perception of "freedom"on SO such that we don't have to subscribe to too much bureaucracy
In my opinion, SO should create a library of answers or helpful resources for common problems so that certain questions will always be concrete and answered.
That way new people who have "bad questions" can easily get their answers without ever making a question.
21:11
@Cinch Well and I proposed; stip their nose into the pee they left What should be wrong with this? That's actually, how you educate puppies?
@Cinch (for a real example, ).
i.e. SO wiki or something of the sort.
The problem is the para-SO system, not the question editing.
Mold stole my bread so I'm eating sandwiches without
@JerryCoffin This deserves more visability.
@CatPlusPlus Not really a sandwich then.
21:14
@wilx It just gets worse and worse
Close enough
@sehe Yeah. :)
I started out with "meh - nothing surprises me". I'm currently at the stage where I can't reciprocate a smiley on this subject anymore
@sehe Hehe. Well, I can still laugh. This country fortunately did not try this, yet.
@sehe Sorry, what?
user1804599
21:16
lol voting computers
@Cinch Not even google, Padawan
Just scroll up a bit. Click some reply arrows.
@sehe You're being too nice.
You need to Bing.
Bag Bing Theory
We should start saying "Bing it" instead of "Google it."
Let me bing that for you.
Bing is your friend.
I have drastically reduced the word count.
Is it still sufficient?
21:23
I love "using namespace std;" at function level...
@gha.st That creates inconsistent style, though.
Also this tutorial is meant for complete beginners once they understand some basic computing concepts.
so, you would say that this
`friend void swap(myclass& a, myclass& b) { using std::swap; swap(a.x, b.x); }`
is significantly superior to
`friend void swap(myclass& a, myclass& b) { using namespace std; swap(a.x, b.x); }`
due to it being inconsistent in some way?
@sehe Bags never contain what you're expecting to be held in them ...
@gha.st It really doesn't matter but using doesn't need to be relevant to beginners.
Plus it also causes them to chronically use it whenever they can which is not good.
21:27
@πάνταῥεῖ to bag is also a verb!
user1804599
teabagging
@Nooble Bang your friend
@sehe :P
So who's Lightning Racis in Obrit?
@gha.st std isn't long enough. I use ns aliases when necessary to keep things readable. "Using ns" is quite a big nono in generic contexts.
Is that another one of LRiO's sockpuppets?
21:29
...
user1804599
boost::intrusive_ptr<Value> result;
while (!result) {
    result = readInstruction(*source, *this);
}
return result;
user1804599
Ugh, this code is so ugly.
@gha.st The first one highlights the intent. And the reason for the using
user1804599
for (;;) {
    auto result = readInstruction(*source, *this);
    if (result) {
        return result;
    }
}
user1804599
Much better.
user1804599
21:32
@Nooble Lightning Racist in Orbit?
just fyi the absense of vehement response here means you're doing well.
Preaching the good gospel
@sehe Yay.
Instead of going to C++ class I'll write Section 1.4
@Cinch No, Lightning Racis in Obrit.
maaaaaan why do my edits need to be peer reviewed
21:33
Prayer: Dear lord please let me be never required to audit any code by Zoidberg
@gha.st I'd prefer the namespace declaration over the namespace directive, but I have to admit it's not a particularly significant difference under the circumstances.
Have you met LRiO's twin, Blackness Freezes out Freedom?
@Pris because you suck?
@JerryCoffin not functionally, but the code has other purposes than to "make the compiler do things". It's conveying stuff to me too
@sehe I think given the three (or so) line function involved, I don't see a significant difference in the intellectual requirements to understand one versus the other.
@sehe Does that mean I suck too :(
21:38
@Nooble It means you're gross (or at least your rep is).
@Nooble Unlikely
@JerryCoffin Unattractively large or bloated?
Why not both
@sehe :)
@Nooble Look carefully, and see if you can't find a definition of "gross" that's much more specific to your precise rep score.
user1804599
@JerryCoffin Oh wow.
Well isn't that nice.
An amount equal to twelve dozen; 144.
@Nooble Bingo.
@райтфолд Is Mill a language?
@Cinch Mill is @райтфолд's language of the hour.
user1804599
Mill is love. Mill is life.
21:44
Well I can't Google it so could I get a link to a page?
Bing it.
@Cinch Try going on petunia's github.
user: Petunia has no public gists
Mill Is Wind
@sehe Wind is a Javascript library.
> Give me death
@sehe Um....
No resp?
No respect. Or you mean "respiration"? Because that comment would kill me. Or you, indirectly at a code review
Also, the markup is all over the place. Or is it not really supposed to look like this imgur.com/KjL4WlL
> Apple is the most well-known and trusted name in technology today
lol
@CatPlusPlus Seems like a true statement to me for the majority of people
Fuck Apple
22:01
Apple is trusted to suck.
For me, Google is the least trusted now.
Must feared != least trusted for me
@sehe :it's supposed to look like this
Also
Too much bold. If a para is a single sentence, why bold it?
@sehe For emphesis
LOL
22:05
all the bold is supposed to be tl;dr;
Also how do I give myself access to an entire partitiion in Linux?
Try jumping
It doesn't work. I thought the whole tutorial was supposed to be ADD friendly
Bah. I just read email that says we are all supposed to attend some sort of "unconscious bias" training. FML
@Cinch Be root. Or adduser $yourusername disk
@wilx KARMA IS A BITCH DOG
@sehe BS.
22:08
@sehe ugh sudo everything.
@R.MartinhoFernandes No idea.
Raw partition access is a privileged operation, yes
oh god.
@wilx What is your workplace?
@Puppy CA Technologies.
22:09
I meant in general, what kind of software do you produce
I wonder why anyone would want to run their high availability distributed database across multiple availability zones?
laff
That's weird.
I just did sudo chmod 777 MYPATH and it still doesn't work
@CatPlusPlus what is this in reference to?
@Puppy loads. Mainframe is one huge part. Secondary is distributed stuff. Monitoring (e.g, CA APM), server/VMs management (CA Server Automation, CA Client Automation, yes, I know, very inventive names). Loads that I even do not know about.
AerospikeDB
22:11
> "it"
Sits on the couch all day?!
AerospikeDB "virtually eliminates partition formation as proven by years of deployment... in cloud environments" but http://t.co/EpFjh28Bw9
@Cinch need traversal on the directory nodes too
@sehe is that like -r?
@Cinch The fuck are you doing anyway
@CatPlusPlus I have a partition I have to share files between Windows and Linux
22:12
777 is almost never a good idea, or necessary
@Cinch except "x" on dir
@CatPlusPlus 007 are the worst permissions ever to set on a spy, Q
@Cinch This kills the ssh.
@Cinch simple. ntfs, no worries
Use an exFAT or NTFS partition and just mount it on a folder owned by you
Oh my god I know nothing about Linux ppl.
I am very sad.
22:13
You should be
Have fun
So many distributed databases and when you look at any of them it turns out that nope, it's shit, you're still better off with just running Postgres in hot standby and throwing more resources at a node
Ugh
@CatPlusPlus Yeah. I agree. :)
-14
Q: Let's help the new users out!

chmod 711 telkittyAs I woke up on the April 1st 2015, a brilliant idea hit me: wouldn't it be wonderful to allow the new users to show their humbleness & eagerness to improve by allowing them to carry certain tag, so they would not be ripped into pieces when they inadvertently ask some dumb questions when they fir...

kitty strikes again!
...
Very sad.
More good jokes
22:17
now it's time to pay bills online
Wow.
chmod doesn't work.
ownership
@Cinch you are missing some key points.. the wording isn't bad, it's just.. well, it could be a lot better..
@Cinch alright, I just continued to read the later sections.. you should change the terminology used
MLM
MLM
How do I transform std::cout calls/stream to append something to each std::cout call? coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/fbdbcb1c2be778bc
@MLM you'd like to additionally add something to the stream every time you do some_stream << some_val?
MLM
MLM
22:25
Yes
@FilipRoséen-refp Well just put them down
Gotta go to class lol
but thansk for the critique!
err, I over paid a once off bill :'(
@FilipRoséen-refp Oh one of these answers
@MLM easiest solution would be to create a wrapper type, that simply does the formatted output, including your additional data
`curl -L .. | sudo sh` is a security NIGHTMARE. I will only use projects installed via `./configure && make && sudo make install`
laff
22:29
@Cinch finish your courses in C++, read a few books, and get back to working on whatever you are working on
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, sudo make install is so much safer than sudo sh, lol.
:thejoke:
@Cinch as an example, int main(...) implicitly returns 0 in C++, unless you explicitly tell it to return something else.
@CatPlusPlus Also does that mean he won't use projects that are not terribly broken and don't actually require ./configure?
@FilipRoséen-refp would you rather not explicitly teach returning to beginners
MLM
MLM
22:31
@FilipRoséen-refp I guess that would be sufficient. Simple and easy
@Cinch with that said, the wording of that section should be changed. Also, in C++, the variables declared in int a; and std::string b; are both objects
MLM
MLM
@FilipRoséen-refp Thanks
@FilipRoséen-refp yes but the lack of alternative strong connotative words in the context of the OOP crazy class terminology I am forced to use objects as in OOP
@Cinch no, I'd teach beginners that main is a magic little entity (and explain the things about it), but I would not have them write return 0; at the end of the block
I'd frame in the context of an operating system for better understanding
22:35
@Cinch "forced", who is forcing you?
As in my class is teaching objects as in OOP
So if I were to give them the technical definition it would confuse them
Many tutorials also already teach it as such
@Cinch who are you writing that for?
I wish you'd change your mind about your tutorials
@FilipRoséen-refp He won't. We tried so many times.
22:37
I mean, if you wanna dumb it down (effectively saying that your readers are stupid), sure - go ahead
Complete beginners, probably those either in high school or who are learning C++ in college
but if you actually wanna teach the readers something, do it proper
@Jefffrey seems like he's a lost cause
He wants to teach something he doesn't know. Many people here tried to make him understand why this is stupid, and he still goes on. The only thing left to do is ignore.
Then you do it.
@Cinch I am lecturing C++, as in teaching, as in; I am doing it.
22:39
@Cinch I do what?
hmm.. I just assumed he meant teaching, but now I'm thinking that he might as well be referring to the "ignore" part
> I am currently in the process of learning C++ to create a C++ tutorial
that's learning it for the wrong reasons
but I guess someone else has already made such comment
Yup, that's the attitude he has. I still don't understand how would that make sense to anybody.
@FilipRoséen-refp Repeatedly. By many of us.
C++ is not learnt via tutorials. Let alone tutorials written by people who don't know C++.
I know that
You learn by doing
22:43
Take one of those recommended books, and read at least one of them. Then code away, then read a little bit of Scott if you like it, and then code away again, and then... I guess you see the pattern.
And if you really like it, then you'll start to follow the C++ community, watch some interesting talks, and so on.
you don't learn by doing, you learn by redoing what you have already done
You learn by fucking up, and somebody tells you how you fucked up.
if you only go with the previously written solution you won't learn shit
@FilipRoséen-refp how does it feel to be badly teaching yet another generation of programmers c++?
And after a couple of years of that, maybe (and I say maybe) you are ready to make an acceptable C++ tutorial for God only knows who.
22:44
@Mgetz the course has improved a lot since I came along, and the knowledge is a lot higher than previously so.. I feel quite good about it
@FilipRoséen-refp so they know the basics of C++ and not C with typesafety?
@Mgetz they know more than the basics of C++, the course has nothing to do with C
nice
@Mgetz Honestly I wouldn't worry about a Lounger teaching C++. It's most of the rest of the people that is the problem.
@Jefffrey Does that mean I can teach C++ :D
22:46
> We’ve added a new feature called Harrison Jones’ Museum! Accessing it will allow you to gaze proudly upon all the weapons you’ve put in the museum, where they belong.
Blizzard makes April's fools so much better
Heck, I know that I would not even know where to start with a course teaching C++...
@Griwes slightly more trustworthy depending on where/how you got the project build files
Too many little details and complications...
@FilipRoséen-refp +1
@Cinch No. You learn by doing :)
@CaptainGiraffe He's learning a lot here
I know where I'd start. I'd start with the student's interest in programming.
Make it worth while. And then start to unveil what is required. And how it becomes complex. Unless you manage things.
22:53
"School told me I have to learn to code to be a plumber" -- Student, 2021
"School was right" -- 2022
"School actually made me waste years teaching me every thing possible, of which maybe I needed 10%" -- 2023
Not bad ideas @sehe. Unfortunately you don't get to choose the students. My last least favorite is "I don't want to come to classes and you should respect that. And I find the examination project too hard."
@gha.st Yes, but you're a weakling.
@CaptainGiraffe I think I'd be very tempted to agree and not care :/
22:56
@Puppy sniffle don't be a meany!
Some students will just be a total loss
I'n a very nice and pleasant person.
4
you can ask anybody in this chat.
They don't need you to scurry and try to get them to pass. If they don't want to... well.
@sehe My reply was curt.
@Puppy You can't even spell that right :P
22:56
Oh boy.
@CaptainGiraffe "I respect that. Good luck"?
@Jefffrey Spell what?
> I'n
oic
He spelled that exactly correctly. I know no other way to spell "I'n"
22:57
it's just that time of night.
@sehe It was "Classes are for learning, if you oppose that I can't help"
yeah
Wait is it Weerwolf time in UK?
@CaptainGiraffe Close enough :)
23:58 here
ah shizzle
gotta pay my council tax
Why would you want using namespace std; local to a function? Is it an April fools star? (Or at all. I find the 5 char std:: comforting).
23:03
it's probab.ly a "lol at that noob" star.
the same thing you get if you post like "I'm a total fuckwit" or something
Lol
but that guy was like "I'm only mostly a fuckwit" which is just not as funny.
Well to be fair, I'm only mostly a fuckwit is a decent approach to bettering oneself =)
Unless you're in fact a total fuckwit
4
yeah, but you only tend to get stars for things that are either very profound or funny.
and "I'm only mostly a fuckwit" is just not that profound or that funny.
23:15
Also puppy
You are green
@Cinch A green spaniel?
Mebbe after rolling around in grass cuttings..
@MLM inspired by your question you could do this, effectively making delim_stream (std::cout, ", ") << 1 << 2 << 3; be equivalent to std::cout << 1 << ", " << 2 << ", " << 3;
Ran 10 tests in 13.049s

OK
Woo
@FilipRoséen-refp my question?
lol the core logic test case is 71 LOC
23:28
@Mgetz hmm, maybe it wasn't you.. hold on
@sehe I totally need to quote this every time we get dumb questions here
@Mgetz ah nevermind, I got you mixed up with @MLM
@MLM a simple solution would simply to the additional output in the operator<< for your wrapper, the hack I wrote for you previously was just to.. well, inspire you further
anyhow, time to hang out with the most awesome girl
peace
MLM
MLM
Bye, Thanks for the inspiration :)
23:56
@FilipRoséen-refp wot
@FilipRoséen-refp no you're not here

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